Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Le Châtelier:Reason why nutritionist and lifters disagree on protien ammounts

spesmilitis

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
1,511
Reaction score
6
Nutritionist say that over some amount of protein per meal will not be absorbed by the body. Experienced lifters scoff at that amount. They know from years of experience, that way more protein that one amount indicated by scientists is effective. However, scientists have done studies on strength athletes, and have found out that not all of the protein consumed by lifters is absorbed in the body. The my hypothesis to this contraction is Le Châtelier's Principle.

Le Châtelier's Principle:

When a reactant or product of an equilibrium reaction is added to a solution that is at equilibrium, the added species will react to change the concentrations of the reactants and products in the solution until a new equilibrium is established (but the ratio of the concentrations given in the mass action expression (Equation 6) is the same, because the equilibrium constant, K, is a constant at a given temperature). This process is known as a shift in the equilibrium

In summary, the more of a reactant you have, the more reactions you'll get.

How does this relate to protein absorption?

The more protein you have, the more reactions with that protein you'll get. More amino acids flowing in your body will result in more chances that the amino acid will come into contact the other reactions/enzymes, which will result in more muscle proteins.

I have taken many chemistry labs in college, and there were very few reactions where 100% of the limiting reactant (chemical available in the lowest amounts, thus the reaction depends on how much of the limiting reactant available). Most of the times, there was limiting reactant left over. I would give that a rough estimate of average percent yield (percent of limiting reactant consumed) is 75%. Theoretically, it should be 100%. The reason for this would require knowledge of physical chemistry to understand, but a simplified view would be imagining to balls bouncing around in a room.

Each of the two balls is a reactant. They balls will on react when they come into contact. As you can imagine, at an instant, there is very few chances that the balls would react. But now, imagine 100 balls bouncing around in that same room. At first, there will be a lot of reactions. But, as time goes on, there will be few balls left, and the number of reactions per time interval will be very small. In lab, only in cases where I had a tiny bit of limiting reactant, and a whole lot of the other reactants, all of the limiting reactant was consumed. But in that case, very little of the other reactants was consumed.

Now lets compare this to protein, and your body. Protein is the limiting reactant. Your body, and all its muscle tears are the reactants available in excess. I.E., protein is one type of ball in bouncing in the room, the reactants that will turn it into muscle is another ball. If your body is absorbing 100% of the protein digested, it means that there are a whole lot of muscle tear sites that went unreacted, and new muscle won't grow there.

I call this, Santosh's hypothesis.
 

Skilla_Staz

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
2,230
Reaction score
10
Age
35
Location
Omaha, Nebraska
So you're saying, oversaturate your body with protein to maximize the growth?

I think thats what I gathered from this.
 

spesmilitis

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
1,511
Reaction score
6
Skilla_Staz said:
So you're saying, oversaturate your body with protein to maximize the growth?

I think thats what I gathered from this.
Yeah, although this is just a hypothesis to explain the disconnect between experianced lifters and scientists. I don't for sure if its true.

more amino acids in reaction area -> more likely muscle protien systhesis reactions occur -> more mucsle protiens developed

If it is true, that means that if you take it a lot of protiens to maximize growth, you won't be using all of the protiens, and that will lead to de aminization of those protiens so they can be used as a carbohydrate. Those extra amines are bad for your body. How bad? Well, WBA, throttle, a-unit are alive and healthy. But, maybe the effects won't show untill you're older.

Again, its just a hypothesis, not yet a theory.
 

Throttle

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
1,844
Reaction score
10
spesmilitis said:
Those extra amines are bad for your body. How bad? Well, WBA, throttle, a-unit are alive and healthy.
not to mention lots of other guys who are older than all of us -- including guys who've played around with much more questionable substances along with their 1-2g/lb of protein per day.

I'm curious about why amines concern you -- just some quick reading around doesn't say why these would be dangerous for your body.
 

spesmilitis

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
1,511
Reaction score
6
In my nutrition class, I learned about the bad side effects of those amines. I left my text book at my home away from college so I can't look em up right now, but I do not there are bad side effects.
 

Throttle

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
1,844
Reaction score
10
hmm...i would guess that they put stress on both the kidneys and liver, which is a reason to get plenty of fluids and avoid alcohol. beyond that would be pure speculation on my part (as opposed to slightly informed speculation)
 

honeyshark

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Apr 16, 2003
Messages
201
Reaction score
1
Throttle said:
hmm...i would guess that they put stress on both the kidneys and liver, which is a reason to get plenty of fluids and avoid alcohol. beyond that would be pure speculation on my part (as opposed to slightly informed speculation)
This is correct.
 

Throttle

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
1,844
Reaction score
10
hmm this makes a certain sense -- the only thing that's ever been flagged by a doctor in recent years is slightly elevated blood pressure (back well under normal probably for a couple reasons) and elevated liver enzymes. this was when I was playing with hardcore near-zero-carb dieting. I don't advocate that sort of thing anymore -- just making sure most of your carbs (except post-lifting) are paired with significant fiber and/or protein.
 

Throttle

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
1,844
Reaction score
10
that covers the kidneys...but i already knew that. gotta keep hydrated if you're going to wolf down that much protein.
 

simon

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Messages
638
Reaction score
7
Location
England
It's really, really doubtful that amines have any chance to build up, considering how fast and efficiently our body is able to convert them to other products.

Amine groups are removed from molecules via deamination in the liver. The amines are then converted to ammonia, which is then converted, again in the liver, into urea, (and some uric acid) which is then excreted.

Ammonia is toxic, but since it is so quickly converted to urea, which is much less toxic and is excreted via the kidneys, it doesn't have any chance to exert its toxic effects.

As long as you don't have a defect in your urea cycle, which if you did, you'd already know about by now, or have existing kidney problems, excess protein isn't going to do much, if any, harm.
 

simon

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Messages
638
Reaction score
7
Location
England
Excess as in amino acids of proteins which aren't used for energy or muscle growth etc. and are instead deaminated. Deamination also occurs in the metabolism of 'non-excess' protein AAs.
 
Top