LCD and motion blur?

[Levex]

I just got a 42" LCD 1080p tv and when still the picture looks amazing, but if theres a fast moving image on the screen it looks a bit blurry.
I use HDMI cables and even Blu-ray has this blur to some degree.
Its not unbearable but it is noticable, i guess i got used to my old smaller CRT.

I know plasmas and dlps dont have this problem.Is it common with all LCD hdtvs to go a bit out of focus with moving images?

 

[oakraiderz2]

I dont have that problem ever. What brand do you have?

 

[Levex]

Magnavox. I looked at the TVs in the store and this blur looked identical to a top of the line one going for 2.5 grand. Thats why i assumed all lcds have this to some degree.

 

[bigjohnson]

This sounds more like a scaler artifact or codec issue than a display problem. My LCD never does that but my DLP has slight rainbow issues.

 

[oakraiderz2]

Magnavox. I looked at the TVs in the store and this blur looked identical to a top of the line one going for 2.5 grand. Thats why i assumed all lcds have this to some degree.

Magnavox is garbage. I think the refresh rate isnt comparable to the higher quality brands. I have a 32' samsung and everything looks great. Im assuming you spent about 5-600 on it? If you could, id suggest returning it and getting a name brand if you can. The picture will look much better...i used to work at sear in the tv department and would compare pictures all day.

 

[bigjohnson]

Magnavox is garbage. I think the refresh rate isnt comparable to the higher quality brands.

Can you cite a source here? I don't doubt Magnavox is garbage, but AFAIK the HD standard only allows X FPS to be transmitted and all TVs display all the frames. If the display latency is below the period of the frame-rate .....

 

[Akuma]

What's the respone time on your TV?

 

[Levex]

Response time is 5 ms.

In the store it was next to a $1500 samsung and picture looked exactly the same.

 

[oakraiderz2]

Can you cite a source here? I don't doubt Magnavox is garbage, but AFAIK the HD standard only allows X FPS to be transmitted and all TVs display all the frames. If the display latency is below the period of the frame-rate .....

If someone was going to give you a magnavox tv or samsung, which one would you take? The contrast ratio isnt as good and the refresh rate most likely isnt as well.

 

[MikeYikes122]

Oak is right, I did my research on this a few months ago. Magnavox doesn't test well in Consumer Reports.

Samsung is pretty well-reputed. I have a 1080p, 48 inch, LCD and the picture is great. There is some graininess when there is a lot of movement on the screen, but I think that happens with all HD TVs.

 

[bigjohnson]

If someone was going to give you a magnavox tv or samsung, which one would you take? The contrast ratio isnt as good and the refresh rate most likely isnt as well.

Well, time for some remedial math. Since 5ms is 0.005 seconds or 1/200 of a second the frame rate would have to be about 333% faster than the 60 Hz standard before it's an issue, or for film, 833% faster than the original 24fps.

I would take the Sony if someone was giving them away, but the reason you gave is completely stupid.

 

[AlexTheGreat]

Look, don't dismiss the man because you don't like his conclusion. Do research for yourself.


Take a movie that looks blurred at your house. Go to the store, and try it on BOTH a magnavox and a samsung. That same "fast moving image" scene. If you notice the blur on the samsung as well, or any other TV for that matter, then you're safe to assume your TV is good.

Otherwise, and as always, you get what you pay for.

 

[bigjohnson]

Any discrete resolution display will have to do scaling for other resolutions. What he is describing sounds like a "scaler artifact" to me, caused by perhaps upsampling a 720p source to 1080p in real time.

The OP might want to look at what the native resolution of his display is and compare to the incoming resolution when he sees this issue occurring. Many LCD TV sets can display 720p or 480 in "1:1" modes, with no scaling. When the problem occurs, try that as a diagnostic measure.

High quality video scaling hardware is still a little expensive and is a common place for companies to try and save money.

 

[oakraiderz2]

Well, time for some remedial math. Since 5ms is 0.005 seconds or 1/200 of a second the frame rate would have to be about 333% faster than the 60 Hz standard before it's an issue, or for film, 833% faster than the original 24fps.

I would take the Sony if someone was giving them away, but the reason you gave is completely stupid.

Ok, attempting to insult me online because i dont know what the refresh rate is is completely appropriate, congrats . I dont know why you feel the need to be so harsh online, but hopefully you can resolve your issues. Honestly i dont really know sh*t about the refresh rate, BUT i do know that all tv manufactuers arent equal. Sorry my example wasnt up to your standards. If you could buy a samsung for the same price as a magnavox or one of those other sh*tty brands, you would buy the samsung. Once again, let me apologize for everyone on this thread and their lack of math skills and tv knowledge, you are far superior to us all....as you clearly tried to demonstrate...thank you.

 

[bigjohnson]

Ok, attempting to insult me online because i dont know what the refresh rate is ....

No, you gave what I suspected was a BS salesman reason for your pitch to Samsung, but I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt and thus asked POLITELY for a source. You then got argumentative instead of backing your reasoning up with actual facts.

Screw with the bull, you get the horns kid.

 

[Alle_Gory]

You sure its not the DVD that's blurry?

 

[02hero]

I just got a 42" LCD 1080p tv and when still the picture looks amazing, but if theres a fast moving image on the screen it looks a bit blurry.
I use HDMI cables and even Blu-ray has this blur to some degree.
Its not unbearable but it is noticable, i guess i got used to my old smaller CRT.

I know plasmas and dlps dont have this problem.Is it common with all LCD hdtvs to go a bit out of focus with moving images?

I have a couple of options you could try, firstly although your TV is branded 1080p, some cheaper models only accept a 1080i input. LCD screens cope better when fed with a progressive source. Now if your TV is a cheaper brand it may have trouble deinterlacing a progressive signal.
So what your TV may be trying to do is go from 1080p to 1080i and then finally to 1080p again. Which takes alot of scaling. Try feeding it a 720p signal where although it will have to scale up to 1080p it won't have to do any interlacing.......I hope this makes sense

The over thing you could try is that your TV will have picture modes (these usually are natural, cinema and dynamic e.t.c). Usually the cinema mode will have the brightest pixel setting, go through the modes and see which one is brightest at the same setting levels. Set the TV at the brightest mode. This helps if your TV doesn't have a good contrast ratio or refresh rate as it shortens the the length the pixel takes to go from black to white.

Also turn the sharpness down to 0 as all this setting does is add fake detail to the picture that isn't really there. Also any features like Noise Reduction, Film mode or Dynamic Contrast e.t.c should be set to off as they usually do more harm than good. Good luck, hope this helps.....

 

[Huffman]

The 5ms is only the "gray-to-gray" response time.
In reality, a full color switch can take up to 50ms, hence a little blur occurs.

The 5ms gray response is only an advertising figure.

I also thought I had some blur when I switched to my LCD (8ms), but after a week or so I didn't even notice it anymore

 

[IsiMan84]

Most of the specs you see for TVs can be deceiving, especially if they aren't real-world numbers. They don't tell you what resolution any of those specs were tested at. LCDs still have some trouble with blur because of the time it takes the crystals to move/twist/etc. Plasma and CRT have virtually none in that aspect. But anything at a 1080p resolution is going to suffer because the TV has to work that much harder to try to achieve the same picture, plus the bandwidth and framerate is tougher to maintain.

Granted I haven't heard much on the specs of your TV, but most 1080p programming truly runs at only 24 or 30fps. So even if your TV said 60Hz it's really displaying the same frame twice in a row before displaying the next one, or 120Hz would be 4 times (in the case of 30fps, 24fps is a different story). If you really wanted to run a legit 60fps/Hz you'd have to drop down to 720p. It's going to run a lot smoother, and unless your TV is over 50" you won't be able to tell the difference in picture from over 8 feet away, which is the standard viewing distance.

The HD pictures you get through dish or local programming is 720p/1080i, and typically at 50-60fps. Blu-Ray/HD-DVD movies are no different than standard definition movies and are displayed at 24fps, because that's the framerate at which they are filmed. There's only more detail in picture because there's more pixels to work with. It won't be any smoother though.

I used to work at Best Buy, and if I said any of this to a customer I'd probably get crucified haha.

 

[Alle_Gory]

There are different types of LCD panels that improve response time and reduce blur. Look into a TN panel. Less blur, but it uses color dithering since its only 6-bit color per chanel instead of 8-bit standard. Tradeoff unfortunately.