"King Of Nice Guys Wants To Be Dethroned"

[Young Stallion]

Hey Forum,

For starters my name on here is Young Stallion, its interesting that name was created by me in 2004 when I first posted and since that time I have not posted for the last 8 years! This probably means my name should not be Young Stallion anymore considering I am 29 years old now.

I still struggle quite a bit with being called a "nice guy" almost as soon as I open my mouth, I do not even have to try to be called nice, it just seems to be as an apparent on me as blonde har on someone who has....blonde hair.

I've read alot of books over the years on dating, psychology, attraction and it has really helped me alot (My favourite read is David D'Angelo).

People lable me as nice, although I am also known as very funny, outgoing, charismatic, ****y, athletic and smart.

I think one thing that irked me the other day was when I was talking to a friend who said that I am the perfect friend for a girl because I am such a good listener and I am very good at reading people and their emotions. I felt this was a kiss of death statement and I thought I should get immediate help.

1. How do I stop getting into these irritating conversations with girls where it litterally feels like they are talking to me as if they were talking to another girl.

2. How can I shake this "nice guy" vibe for good, I mean I kickbox, play hockey, weight lift, do MMA, I am assertive and confident, charismatic and am shooting up the corporate ladder at work, yet I come off like a supreme nice guy.

Now do not get me wrong, I have had a few girlfriends in my life however I seem to always fail making the connection with them that I see when girls are going crazy for other guys....its unmistakable, I am probably the guy who a girl is dating for the sake of dating but not lusting and going crazy over.

If I were to answer my own quesition, I think it is because I talk to much, I am extremely polite, I am also a very keen observer and listener. I also dress very sharp and classy at work and most social events and seem to be very knowledgable at helping people with problems, even when I am not trying.

Here are my pics below, I think I am a pretty ruggedly good looking guy, but I need to enhance my personality so I have the same traits that I do have but there is more of an edge to it.

www.flickr.com/photos/74892745@N05/

Thanks.

 

[wilford]

Hey Forum,
I think it is because I talk to much, I am extremely polite, I am also a very keen observer and listener.

Yeah like my mother, the school, society in general seems to approve this, but it's not what i would call an authentic attitude, and it isn't hot at all. Being self-centered isnt a bad thing. Get in contact with your selfish/animal side... you say you are assertive... if you really want the punani, i dont' see how talking too much, being keen, and a good listener is being assertive...

 

[women haze]

There is nothing wrong with being a nice guy....
There is a difference between nice guy and Pushover...

 

[Gray The Prince]

There is nothing wrong with being a nice guy....
There is a difference between nice guy and Pushover...

This^

If you're getting laid and not ljbf'd by the HB of your choice, then what's the problem?

 

[Deep Dish]

From the 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene:

Law 4: Always Say Less than Necessary
When you are trying to impress people with words, the more you say, the more common you appear, and the less in control.  Even if you are saying something banal, it will seem original if you make it vague, open-ended, and sphinxlike.  Powerful people impress and intimidate by saying less.  The more you say, the more likely you are to say something foolish.

Law 16: Use Absence to Increase Respect and Honor
Too much circulation makes the price go down:  The more you are seen and heard from, the more common you appear.  If you are already established in a group, temporary withdrawal from it will make you more talked about, even more admired.  You must learn when to leave.  Create value through scarcity.

Law 17: Keep Others in Suspended Terror: Cultivate an Air of Unpredictability
Humans are creatures of habit with an insatiable need to see familiarity in other people’s actions.  Your predictability gives them a sense of control.  Turn the tables: Be deliberately unpredictable.  Behavior that seems to have no consistency or purpose will keep them off-balance, and they will wear themselves out trying to explain your moves.  Taken to an extreme, this strategy can intimidate and terrorize.

Get in touch with your inner narcisstic egocentric asswhole. Find the R-rated version of yourself; like Wilford said, your animalistic side. Communicate through your actions rather than words.

 

[pinhas]

Its actually pretty easy; just do and say the exact opposite of what you would have said or done in the past..

When speaking to a girl, don't try to understand her or connect, but rather take everything she says and make a joke out of it, entertain yourself and don't get trapped in the "I must agree with her so she could like me mindset". If you are in a boring convo, either overtly change the subject or leave. Don't be afraid to look like an a**hole.

I say start with being a total dik, and than scale it down as you learn how to act less like a nice emotional tampon. After a while you will find the sweet spot between pushover nice guys and a total a**, which of course will change according to different situations.

Be a good guy, not a nice guy.

 

[Aaron B]

There is nothing wrong with being a nice guy....
There is a difference between nice guy and Pushover...

I couldn't disagree more.

The nice guy by definition is a pushover. He is a people-pleaser, and he places the needs of others above his own.

The nice guy is a dime a dozen and easy to obtain, and therefore is assigned a low value by women.

Most women don't have sexual desire for the nice guy. Normal attractive women with options certainly don't.

This is also a good time to mention that how people perceive you and how you see yourself aren't usually the same.

 

[Mike32ct]

From the 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene:Get in touch with your inner narcisstic egocentric asswhole. Find the R-rated version of yourself; like Wilford said, your animalistic side. Communicate through your actions rather than words.

I'm pretty much in agreement.

OP: You have the looks. From your physical activites, I'm sure you have a good body too. I have no doubt that you have charm/personality.

But you might be coming across as harmless in the sexual department. In other words, you need to give more of this vibe: "Don't leave me alone with a hottie. I'll end up boning her."

What I'm ultimately getting at is being more direct and aggressive. I suggest things like longer and deeper eye contact. Feel free to be a bit more serious even. Too friendly and funny can kill a sexual vibe sometimes. Definitely use kino. Touch her arm. Put your hand on her back in the club or when walking with her. Kiss her like you gotta have her right now, then pull away to leave her wanting more.

Once you can have her feel your masculine sexual energy, she will get the required gina tingle she needs to keep you out of friendzone.

 

[FairShake]

People lable me as nice, although I am also known as very funny, outgoing, charismatic, ****y, athletic and smart.

Now do not get me wrong, I have had a few girlfriends in my life however I seem to always fail making the connection with them that I see when girls are going crazy for other guys....its unmistakable, I am probably the guy who a girl is dating for the sake of dating but not lusting and going crazy over.


Here are my pics below, I think I am a pretty ruggedly good looking guy, but I need to enhance my personality so I have the same traits that I do have but there is more of an edge to it.

Sorry to break it to you, and I say this only because it may free you up a little bit, but you really aren't ruggedly handsome. You aren't a good looking guy. I'm not either though you are probably better looking than I am! My guess is that it may be a barrier for some women but not all of them. Mostly shallow *****es by the way.

You say you have had girlfriends along the way but you haven't made that deeper connection. First, I don't think there is any problem without having made a deep connection by your 20s. That's not what your 20s are for. Men and women aren't very deep in their 20s. They're looking to have fun without being tied down. The tying down comes later.

Second, deeper connections DO NOT come from being a bad boy. I'm not going to argue that having an edge doesn't help attract some (not all) women because it does. But forging deeper connections usually means letting down the contrived edge and letting your real charming, intelligent, good listening self shine through. You can't have a deep connection by using a fake face. It just doesn't work that way and they will never get to see the real you.

Seriously, if what you say about yourself is true, I'd keep being yourself. I think nothing is more "alpha" than being yourself and living the life you were meant to lead. One little tidbit, if girls aren't responding to your looks now I can PROMISE they will when you hit your 30s. Looks becomes secondary to intelligence, fun, success, and savvy as you get older.

 

[loveshogun]

If you're getting laid and not ljbf'd by the HB of your choice, then what's the problem?

Problem is, he's not getting laid, period. Or, at least from what his post says.

I spent 30 minutes writing this pos, and then erasing most of it because it boils down to this:

You wanna talk to a girl? Talk to her.

You DON'T want to talk to her about her problems and how her period went last month? Don't.

Simple. If you're doing well on a corporate ladder, women should be cake. Treat them the same way as you treat anyone you actually get along with.

Some will bite, some will not. It's your life - fill it with the people who bite.

I have the opposite problem. Women are always wanting to talk to me about how their pyrex d*ldo doesn't do it for them, or how they want to break up with their neurotic boyfriends, and how many times I like to have sex per day. Why do they do that? I have no idea. All I know, is that women like that aren't allowed within 10 feet of my naked p*nis. Cause they crazy. Really. They're the female version of AFCs when they put it all out there like that. And after a while, you start to see why desperation is so unattractive.

 

[Alle_Gory]

On a scale of "eeew what a creep" to "I want to suffocate him with my vagina"... where would you rate yourself? How attractive do women find you BEFORE you screw it up? Your pictures tell me nothing because for all I can tell you could have a fat gut. I don't care for pictures, I care to know how YOU see yourself and this tells me how you behave. If you think you're attractive and act attractive, that makes you slightly more attractive even if you're a slob.

Perception is reality... somewhat.

Also, how agressive are you physically with women? Do you like to touch them? Do you like to make out? Do you grab their ass and try to tear their clothes off once they're comfortable with you? How comfortable are you making them and how much do you push for more is my question?

When you DO see that girls like you as a friend. What do you do? Continue or tell them to stop calling you. You're only creating a habit of making friends if you don't cut your losses before you really dig yourself into a nice hole. I don't make friends with women, I don't give them a chance to. At most I am friendly and a friend of a friend. If I'm not feeling it, I leave. Not at first, I like to try a couple of times before I am satisfied that it's not going anywhere and then use napalm on that bridge. Burn baby, burn. I do not recommend this.

 

[Young Stallion]

Deep Dish: I am interested in this book Laws of Power by Robert Greene, do you have any more information on it? Could I just look thee laws up online or would you be able to post them?

Mike and Fairshake: I found it amusing how I got two posts back to back saying completely the opposite about my looks. I dug that, it reminded me of the Dirty Harry Quote "Opinons are like a**holes, everyones got one". See this is why this world is about charisma as much as it is about appearance as everyone thinks differently. However I do believe there is a narrower scope of what girls find attractive about a personality than what appeals to them in the looks department.

Fairshake: Just to clarify the other part of your post (which I greatly appreciated your insight and candor by the way) what I meant by deeper connection wasnt so much "love" or anything like that, its having a girl going crazy about me on a physical level, you know when your actions spark a chemistry that goes beyond just the motions of dating on the girls end.

Loveshogun: I do talk to lots of girls and meet many many girls and yes I have no inhibitions of talking to them, but like you accurately pointed out, the conversations over time eventually lead to talking about their relationships and I feel like a damn therapist.

Allegore: I would rate myself a 6-7 in looks, the type of guy who with the right personality would be an overall 7-8 if I developed the right charisma. I can definitely talk to girls and have had a few girlfriends but it always feels as if I am pushing the envelope alot more than they are. I appreciate your concern but I definitely dont have a gut, I am 5'7 and weigh 140 pounds with about 8% body fat, I work out and work out and work out more.

I once tried to take a bunch of crap to get bigger and it just took away from my definition and made me not have the 6pack. Sure I got up to 170 pounds while bodybuilding hardcore and taking supplements, whey and creatine but you know what, I completely lost my defiinition and I ballooned up to a 36" waste. When I knew I was heading down the wrong path I highered a nutritionist to go along with my working out and got back down to 140 pounds and back to my 30" waste.

How do I see myself, I see myself as charismatic, charming. nice, outgoing and a leader. I would not be where I am in my corporate life at such a young age in a large company if I did not have these characteristics.

I am VERY physical with women and those who I have slept with say I ravage them and that I f*ck like a baddass and make a girl feel like a pornstar in bed. I get girls sayin that to me, but aside from those few times I fall into the friend zone way to much.

I agree, I should not make the habit of making friends with girls, which I do have a very bad habit of.

I believe I definitely need to get my hands on that law of power book.

I am open to more questions, fire away.

-Not So Young Anymore Stallion

 

[ryanjevo]

Embrace your sexuality. Escalate and show the girls you are looking for a nice tit**** and not a nice tit-to-tit discussion time.

Really what I see is what you're lacking.

Don't be afraid of being a man with a rock hard penis.

 

[Alle_Gory]

I am VERY physical with women and those who I have slept with say I ravage them and that I f*ck like a baddass and make a girl feel like a pornstar in bed. I get girls sayin that to me, but aside from those few times I fall into the friend zone way to much.

Not everyone has to find you physically attractive. For some girls, you might just not be their type and they like you... but not physically. It happens.

Good to hear you're comfortable and they're comfortable with you. Huge benefit right there. I just think you should be more strategic with your choices. If a girl starts giving you the "let's just be friends" script then don't accept it. She wants friends? Too bad. Stop calling her and make her come to you if she's that interested.

Once she does, you're in charge and can start negotiations once more and get a better deal. If she doesn't come to you, no loss. No time wasted, no effort wasted, no fake friendship formed, your dignity is intact and so is your wallet.