It worked - now how not to f it up

[davewe]

Long story, so bare with me. I dated a woman this spring and into the early summer. 20 years younger than me and while not a 10, most definitely cute and sexy. After being divorced for 3 years this was the first time I actually liked someone and felt feelings.

One of the things that we had in common was that neither of us wanted to get married again and despite her relatively young age, she had no interest in having a child. I already have 2 and had no plans to have more. It was perfect: a young woman who wanted sex without marriage or kids!

But then a shocker - she got cancer. It wasn't the first time she's had it and she was panicked - as were her doctors. She was put on radiation treatment and each time the prescribed period of time was over - the docs still found residual cancer and put her on more radiation. I stuck by her, was worried and couldn't wait for her to get the all clear. Plus the treatments and their aftermath put our sex life on hold. Nonetheless our connection grew and while I was careful to never use the L word (love not lesbian, that is) I really cared for her.

Finally, I got the call I'd hoped for. Her scans were clear. Why then I wondered did she not sound happier? Because the life threatening experience had made her re-evaluate her life. She wanted to get married again and maybe even have kids. And she'd spoken to an old male friend with whom she'd always fantacized about a relationship. They decided to pursue it.

Without anger I said goodbye. In the subsequent 2 months I called her only once just to make sure she was fine healthwise. I decided to move on and having read on this and other forums, decided the only chance of having a relationship with her again was no contact; let her miss me.

Time passed. I often wanted to call her but didn't. I dated other women but none of them interested me like she did. But still I'd moved on and not pined for her and that was progress. I assumed I wouldn;t hear from her again.

A couple of nights ago I got a brief email from her, stating that while I probably did not want to communicate with her again she had been thinking a lot about me and was wondering how I was. Amazing - it worked! Last night I called. While we danced around things and got a bit caught up on the last couple months, she admitted how much she missed me and I acknowledged the same. We're gonna get together in a few days.

I'm excited at the possibility to rekindle this relationship but think my emotions are so strong that I will screw it up. While I don't want to game her, as a middle aged AFC I know I need to maintain my frame but in this case don't even know what it is.

 

[LeftyLoosey]

Okay, wait a second.

You're telling us that you stood by this woman through her cancer treatments, day in, day out, for god knows how long, and when she finally got better, she left you for an old fling under the guise of wanting marriage and kids.

Now her relationship with that dude has gone sour and she's coming crawling back to you.

This is an incredible example of the mutated "honor"-code that Rollo was talking about, the honor-code that women have concocted to manipulate men. If you had left her while she was undergoing treatment, other women and pussified men would have RIPPED into you for being a cold-hearted self-serving bastard. When all was said and done and she got what she wanted from you, she went on her merry way.

NOW she wants you back, because she knows you're the AFC who will forgive and forget, and take his sloppy seconds with a smile.

Wake up Mr. AFC. I hate to sound so harsh, but there's no amount of DJ that can save this relationship. If you have any self-respect whatsoever, you'll wish her all the best and move along. This is a case of better-off alone than getting laid from a piece-of-sh1t manipulating b1tch.

And to those of you who ripped into my thread about morality a couple weeks back: this is what I was talking about. You're better off with your right hand than putting up with sh1t like this. For f*ck's sake men, WAKE UP!!

 

[Mr. Me]

>> decided the only chance of having a relationship with her again was no contact; let her miss me. >>

If you went No Contact in order to get her to want you back, you missed the point. Going NC is for you, to help you move on. They say it's the only way to make her miss you because human nature would have you calling her all the time, pleading to take you back, etc., when in contact with her, and all that kind of stuff creates a further divide, and so avoiding that behavior by going NC becomes "the only chance to get her back". But it's not that you really want an ex back. You only think you do, feel you do. You have pain because she's gone, and so you think that having her back will erase that pain, but that's an error in your thinking: you're seeking to have the person capable of causing you pain, back again in your life.

The Gift Of Missing You, when it comes to the termination of a relationship, is really about not permitting her to enjoy the benefits of being with you without you enjoying the benefits you want of being with her. And you do that by cutting yourself off to her via No Contact. It's a permanent gift.

>> she admitted how much she missed me >>

Right, she missed you while she was entwined in the arms and other body parts of this other guy. Boy, when did she find the moment to think about you? These women....

My friend, what they miss isn't YOU. YOU are the person they wanted to let go of. The relationship with the ex went or is going south, alas, the grass wasn't greener (if things were still going great with him, she wouldn't be interested in seeing you, right?), and she needs a place to bail so as to not be alone. With no new prospects in sight, the easiest most comfortable path is to call the last ex. That's you. And eventually she will leave again. The only thing she misses is good times. All the other stuff of day to day being with you, she's not thinking about. This isn't about you - it's ALL about her.

You have to love yourself a lot better then to accept a woman who dumped you like that, especially after you diligently stuck with her while she was ill. You do realize, don't you, that in her eyes, a guy she dumps who willingly takes her back, will not have her total respect. You're telling her, "Yes, you can crap all over me. I'll still take you back!" She will be in control of that relationship and she'll never love nor respect you as much as you should be loved by a woman.

If she did love you that much, she never would've left you in the first place.

P.S. See how well it worked out for her ex when he took her back?

 

[synergy1]

Some people are chronically "used", but the way I see it, they continue to put themselves in these situations and have no one but themselves to blame.

Move on man. she would be riding some other dudes **** if you had cancer for sure.

 

[davewe]

I expected the comments I got but I wanted to post my experience anyway.

Age is an interesting issue when it comes to this kind of business. Younger people think growing older is about loss of libido. Not for me. The libido's the same as it was 20 or 25 years ago. But my attitudes have changed. I have no interest in getting married again or having an LTR. Nor am I interested in hitting clubs for traditional pick up.

Another change (at least for me) is that at this point most women bore me. I ain't too thrilled with the guys either! So, to find someone who engages me is something I'm not anxious to lose.

As to the comments about being used or hurt, a guy can only feel used or hurt if he had an expectation. I had none. How was I used? We had a great time, fascinating talk, and great sex. How was I hurt? Neither of us promised the other anything. On the contrary. We were both clear that we would not be marrying each other.

At the time of our parting, I had been listening to Johnny Sopornos videos. He believes in never losing a woman. His women friends come and go and often come back. So I decided to leave the door open for this woman by telling her that if she wanted to hang out again in the future I'd be happy to, but wouldn't want to "only" be friends.

Will see how it works.

Thanks for the honest opinions and I hope that no one is offended if I choose my own path. That's another advantage of old age!

 

[Desdinova]

I'm taking the opposite stand of the majority of posts, and for a good reason. Women generally don't intentionally use men. They just follow whatever feels good to them. They will follow what their emotions tell them, not what logic tells them.

A man will use a tool until he no longer needs it. This is how a man functions. Men will also assume that others (including women) will use a tool until they no longer need it. While it may be true for men, it's not for women.

A woman will not use, but keep a tool if it makes her feel good. She may never use it ever again, but the feelings that the tool brings up inside her make her want to keep it.

I'm sure she didn't want to completely eliminate you from her life (read: "just be friends") but you gave her no choice. If she didn't need the tool anymore, you were going to take it away. And that you did.

When you take something away from a woman that gives her positive feelings, she will feel empty or lost, and will regret that she no longer has it. She will dwell on it. It will pre-occupy her mind daily.

When that tool is back in her reach, she will make the effort to get it back and never lose it again.

She has many positive feelings linked to you, and she wants to have them continue. You're in prime position to get this woman back into your life. You can do what you choose.

For the rest who posted on this thread, I cannot see how the woman treated him badly. She had her life threatened, and her feelings drove her to pursue what she needed to get out of life before she couldn't anymore. It has nothing to do with using him for support and then tossing him away.

 

[game.r]

I'm taking the opposite stand of the majority of posts, and for a good reason. Women generally don't intentionally use men. They just follow whatever feels good to them. They will follow what their emotions tell them, not what logic tells them.

A man will use a tool until he no longer needs it. This is how a man functions. Men will also assume that others (including women) will use a tool until they no longer need it. While it may be true for men, it's not for women.

A woman will not use, but keep a tool if it makes her feel good. She may never use it ever again, but the feelings that the tool brings up inside her make her want to keep it.

I'm sure she didn't want to completely eliminate you from her life (read: "just be friends") but you gave her no choice. If she didn't need the tool anymore, you were going to take it away. And that you did.

When you take something away from a woman that gives her positive feelings, she will feel empty or lost, and will regret that she no longer has it. She will dwell on it. It will pre-occupy her mind daily.

When that tool is back in her reach, she will make the effort to get it back and never lose it again.

She has many positive feelings linked to you, and she wants to have them continue. You're in prime position to get this woman back into your life. You can do what you choose.

For the rest who posted on this thread, I cannot see how the woman treated him badly. She had her life threatened, and her feelings drove her to pursue what she needed to get out of life before she couldn't anymore. It has nothing to do with using him for support and then tossing him away.

sweet baby jesus!... from a moderator no less... i'm out!

 

[seth03]

I'm taking the opposite stand of the majority of posts, and for a good reason. Women generally don't intentionally use men. They just follow whatever feels good to them. They will follow what their emotions tell them, not what logic tells them.

A man will use a tool until he no longer needs it. This is how a man functions. Men will also assume that others (including women) will use a tool until they no longer need it. While it may be true for men, it's not for women.

A woman will not use, but keep a tool if it makes her feel good. She may never use it ever again, but the feelings that the tool brings up inside her make her want to keep it.

I'm sure she didn't want to completely eliminate you from her life (read: "just be friends") but you gave her no choice. If she didn't need the tool anymore, you were going to take it away. And that you did.

When you take something away from a woman that gives her positive feelings, she will feel empty or lost, and will regret that she no longer has it. She will dwell on it. It will pre-occupy her mind daily.

When that tool is back in her reach, she will make the effort to get it back and never lose it again.

She has many positive feelings linked to you, and she wants to have them continue. You're in prime position to get this woman back into your life. You can do what you choose.

For the rest who posted on this thread, I cannot see how the woman treated him badly. She had her life threatened, and her feelings drove her to pursue what she needed to get out of life before she couldn't anymore. It has nothing to do with using him for support and then tossing him away.

are you ****ing kidding me

 

[LeftyLoosey]

Will see how it works.

Thanks for the honest opinions and I hope that no one is offended if I choose my own path. That's another advantage of old age!

We can't help you until you're ready to help yourself.

Just curious, how did you meet this woman the first time?

 

[Ballie]

I am also disagreeing with the other posters. They don't realise that finding a women 20 years younger, when you in your 50's who wants to fvck you and does not consider you as an ATM, is rather hard.

Take her back - but treat her as a FB is my advice and don't get emotionally involved this time.

 

[scrouds]

I'm taking the opposite stand of the majority of posts, and for a good reason. Women generally don't intentionally use men. They just follow whatever feels good to them. They will follow what their emotions tell them, not what logic tells them.

A man will use a tool until he no longer needs it. This is how a man functions. Men will also assume that others (including women) will use a tool until they no longer need it. While it may be true for men, it's not for women.

A woman will not use, but keep a tool if it makes her feel good. She may never use it ever again, but the feelings that the tool brings up inside her make her want to keep it.

I'm sure she didn't want to completely eliminate you from her life (read: "just be friends") but you gave her no choice. If she didn't need the tool anymore, you were going to take it away. And that you did.

When you take something away from a woman that gives her positive feelings, she will feel empty or lost, and will regret that she no longer has it. She will dwell on it. It will pre-occupy her mind daily.

When that tool is back in her reach, she will make the effort to get it back and never lose it again.

She has many positive feelings linked to you, and she wants to have them continue. You're in prime position to get this woman back into your life. You can do what you choose.

For the rest who posted on this thread, I cannot see how the woman treated him badly. She had her life threatened, and her feelings drove her to pursue what she needed to get out of life before she couldn't anymore. It has nothing to do with using him for support and then tossing him away.

I miss my 3/4" open end knockoff craftsman wrench, but I'm NEVER taking it back! Its out of my life for good!

 

[Mr. Me]

>> treat her as a FB is my advice and don't get emotionally involved this time.>>

He already is emotionally involved, how do you expect him to not get emotionally involved now? He's not over her, he wants her back, he told her he doesn't want to just be friends.

The OP is one of those guys that really doesn't want advice. Look, he posts that he already knew what we were likely to tell him, which means he knew what he should do but didn't want to do it. Guys who are emotionally attached like him only want to hear what they want to hear: that's there's hope. They disregard everything else they hear and discount it away. Deny reality. Twist it around. He wants to do what his emotions are telling him to do. He said "Will see how it works" but we already know how these things tend to pan out. He's just going to have to learn the hard way.

His next thread will probably be in a few months, and it will start off with "I should've listened to you guys..."

Davewe, here's a question for you: you said you have no interest in getting married again, but you also said that she's re-evaluated what she wants in life, which is marriage and maybe kids. How's that going to work out?

>> How was I used? We had a great time, fascinating talk, and great sex. How was I hurt? >>

This is exactly what ego fragile men say when they minimize the woman's actions toward them. They only point to one half the picture, the good part. They sanctify the woman. Deny that baby gone done a bad thing.

You had a great time, great sex, etc. - and she dumped you like yesterday's garbage just because you didn't fit her plans. Bacall didn't dump Bogey, she adored him and came when he'd call, even in the middle of the night. Your woman, OTOH, saw fit to go off to be with and have a great time, great sex with another guy. That wasn't a hurt? It didn't hurt that she walked out and that she chose to be with someone else rather then you? Okay, when these guys start making stuff up to protect their stance, it's time to stop tossing pearls.

 

[davewe]

>> treat her as a FB is my advice and don't get emotionally involved this time.>>

The OP is one of those guys that really doesn't want advice.

Absolutely true. I would never post on this or any other forum looking for advice. Opinions certainly. Different perspectives - sure. But asking strangers for advice? I might as well go on Dr. F'ing Phil.

The reason I posted my experience originally is because in the real world amazing things happen - good and bad, and I wanted to document what was happening to me and how I was feeling about it. A new relationship begins and then the person gets critically ill. What do you do? She leaves, then misses you and wants to connect again. It's not quite so cut and dry as picking up some HB at a club, banging her, bragging about it to your fellow pussies on a forum, and then never seeing her again.

BTW, I find it interesting that not one person raised what should be the most obvious and relevant question - how's her health now and what's the prognosis for the future. Any future interactions with her - whether relationship or FB hinge on that.

We all have reasons to be angry at and suspicious of women but do we have to throw out our humanity in order to be men? It's hard to take advice based on that seriously.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

A couple of nights ago I got a brief email from her, stating that while I probably did not want to communicate with her again she had been thinking a lot about me and was wondering how I was.

Womaneez to English Translation:
"I've been thinking alot about you lately"

"I've been wondering if you're still AFC enough to be my lover of second choice since the Alpha who I thought would want to get with me, won't leave his wife / is gay / thinks I'm fat?"

 

[dark god]

Absolutely true. I would never post on this or any other forum looking for advice. Opinions certainly. Different perspectives - sure. But asking strangers for advice? I might as well go on Dr. F'ing Phil.

The reason I posted my experience originally is because in the real world amazing things happen - good and bad, and I wanted to document what was happening to me and how I was feeling about it. A new relationship begins and then the person gets critically ill. What do you do? She leaves, then misses you and wants to connect again. It's not quite so cut and dry as picking up some HB at a club, banging her, bragging about it on a forum, and then never seeing her again.

BTW, I find it interesting that not one person raised what should be the most obvious and relevant question - how's her health now and what's the prognosis for the future.

We all have reasons to be angry at and suspicious of women but do we have to throw out our humanity in order to be men? It's hard to take advice based on that seriously.

You know u remind me of my father. Totally In denile. My mother left him when I was about seven or so and used and abused him for the rest of his life..literally. Whenever she needed money..he was there. When ever she needed someone to be her emotional tampon..he was there. whenever she needed ANYTHING he was there at her beck and call. All the while she remarried TWICE and had various d*ck all around her (and In) Unfortnately I dont think you will ever get it.

 

[boomerick]

Dave the doormat----I'll keep it short and sweet----you found one younger woman you can find another----don't waste the finite amount of time you have left in life chasing flake users ---find others that put you first ----last I checked there were still plenty of other women out there----go find them -----leave this one alone---always move forward never 'back'

 

[Desdinova]

are you ****ing kidding me

No, I'm not.

What I'm pointing out is how and why the woman is doing what she's doing. She isn't throwing tantrums, she's not crying everytime he wants to leave, and she's not beating the fvck out of his car with a baseball bat. Again, I don't see how she's trying to control or manipulate anything.

Notice that I never said women NEVER do it, because they sure as hell do. I'm not seeing it as one of those cases. When a woman's not slashing your tires to prevent you from a night out with the boys, she's just generally following what she's feeling. Don't get me wrong, following your feelings is generally a stupid idea, but that's how women work.

A man who can conduct a woman's feelings like a symphony is a powerful man. The OP did just that, whether he realized it or not. As a result, he got what I'm guessing is the desired outcome.

How he plays the symphony from here is entirely up to him. He can keep her attached and fvck her brains out, and maybe even lead to a (gasp!) relationship. Or he can reject her (repeatedly) to get 'revenge' and throw her into a loop of trying to win him back - which may possibly end up with her taking a baseball bat to his car.

 

[decades]

treat her as an FB and you will be fine. fall in love with her and you will be a puddle on the floor of your kitchen when she decides she wants to "explore" her feelings she has for a an old "friend". you sound like you are rather hung up on her. I hope you get my point...

 

[jophil28]

This is an incredible example of the mutated "honor"-code that Rollo was talking about, the honor-code that women have concocted to manipulate men.

The honor code was not invented by women. It was created by men , between men and for men in their interaction with each other.. to be a code of behavior in war and in peacetime.
Women may EXPLOIT it when it suits them, but that is also true of many male creations.
Some of you guys really over estimate their power over us.

 

[jophil28]

I'm excited at the possibility to rekindle this relationship but think my emotions are so strong that I will screw it up. While I don't want to game her, as a middle aged AFC I know I need to maintain my frame but in this case don't even know what it is.

You emotions are already screwing with you. THis woman took all the support and loyalty that you could muster and then, to repay you, she left you for a mirage created by her own feelings. Her illness reminded her that she is vulnerable and very mortal, so she headed off to procreate , but NOT with you.
Her feelings were leading her right into another guys bed.

You have no frame here and you cannot create one. THe frame is set already, partly by her illness, and partly by your willingness to take back someone who abandoned you. That is the frame that you are inside.

Your actions in supporting her were honorable. Your honor is not the villian here, her lack of that same quality is.

Then there is the issue of your loyalty to yourself and your low self regard.
You are willing to place the fleeting emotional rewards of being with her above your self value.

You rightly felt badly about her choosing a sperm donor over you when she followed her emotions, but now you are choosing your emotions over your self respect..

THis has suffering written all over it.