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Is there anything good about men?

Colossus

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I have been reflecting on this article a bit.

While Baumeister's synthesis certainly makes for an interesting read, it's not altogether novel, and like many career academics he makes the sort of sweeping, nebulous generalizations that I detest.

I agree with much of what he said--particularly his point about how men are given to extremes, and how this accounts for many of the accepted "inequities" between gender that modern statistics suggest.

What I disagree with is his hypothesis that ability is more or less equal across gender, and that it is more often a question of motivation rather than one sex being better at something than the other.

If you think about it, this is rubbish. In certain academic areas I can accept the evidence that ability IS more or less equal. Girls generaly dont care for physics and boys generally dont care for english literature. It's a question of interest rather than ability. The reason why there arent that many female physics professors is likely just that--women in general just dont LIKE physics.

But--and this is my editorial here--I'm not going to sit here and swallow some modernist b.s. that the reason why men have been behind the development of all significant scientific, cultural, ecomnomic, and political advancements is purely attributable to social motivations rather than ability. I firmly believe that men are better at some things than women, and likewise women are better at some things than men. Further, I dont think this is entirely because of cultural conditioning. Each sex has innate abilities that the other does not.

The reason why men would rather conquer than coddle children is multifactorial: 1) biologically speaking, we are physically suited for labor, battle, defense, and attack. Women are not. 2) Cognitively we are hardwired for it. Men think and make decisions rationally, are less given to compassion and empathy, and are emotionally better equipped to make tough, fast decisions. 3) As naturally follows with innate ability, we LIKE to strive, to build, and to conquer.
I'm not saying there isnt a cultural element to gender roles, but I think it is a rather small piece of the pie when we are talking about things as different as raising children and building empires.

I understand what he is saying about how most cultures are structured in a way that makes the men are realtively expendable while women are protected in order to preserve the biological imperative of propagating the next generation. This is really an example of culture conforming to biology, rather than the species evolving to meet culture.

I guess what bothered me is he portrayed men as these pawns who serve some larger existential purpose while women are these lovable, sweet creatures who got the soft end of the evolutionary deal. He gave no credit to men's hard work, our provisioning to these sweet women, or that perhaps our desire to succeed and reach greatness is innate rather than some conditioned function to serve women and culture.
 

SXS

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Typical of a guy who is writing papers instead of building empires.
So true...

I firmly believe that men are better at some things than women, and likewise women are better at some things than men. Further, I dont think this is entirely because of cultural conditioning. Each sex has innate abilities that the other does not.
In what exactly women would be better than men ? There is a biologic reason for it(outside of having babies ?)

Do you have two main factors here:

1- Biology makes men bigger, more active, and maybe more agressive.

2- Culture forces men to work, period. There is just no other option.

So really there is really no surprise on to why things are the way they are. It just couldn't be any other way. But my guess is that the second factor the one who has a major impact.

I guess what bothered me is he portrayed men as these pawns who serve some larger existential purpose while women are these lovable, sweet creatures who got the soft end of the evolutionary deal.
I think he really portrayed both men and women as pawns who serve some larger existential purpose, both he lets it clear that women are the ones who got it soft. IT might bother you, but it's a fact.
 

STR8UP

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NewMan said:
maybe - but reality is, you do need to be lucky. You ca work your a$$ off all you want - but luck has her part to play.
Not this routine again....

"Luck", as some of you call it, is actually "chance". Yes, sometimes you can be in the right place at the right time, but becoming the leader of a country or building a billion dollar business isn't something that happens to people who punch out at 5 oclock......it happens to the guys who go the extra mile and learn how to build pipelines of money.

Totally insulting to people who have put so much time and effort into cultivating their empire.
 

Aenigma

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The harder I work, the luckier I get.
 

Luthor Rex

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STR8UP said:
"Luck", as some of you call it, is actually "chance". Yes, sometimes you can be in the right place at the right time, but becoming the leader of a country or building a billion dollar business isn't something that happens to people who punch out at 5 oclock......it happens to the guys who go the extra mile and learn how to build pipelines of money.

When people say someone is "lucky" what is actually happening is:

1.) the guy worked his ass off to prepare for when an opportunity came around

2.) the guy saw the opportunity and took it

Bill Gates worked his little nerd azz off learning how the emerging computer field worked back in the day. When IBM needed an operating system for its PC's Bill saw the opportunity and was prepared to take advantage of it.

So yes, he was in the right place at the right time, but there was a long time before that where he had to prepare himself to be able to take advantage of the opportunities that presented themselves.

That combination is what most people seem to see as "lucky".
 

#41

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STR8UP said:
"Luck", as some of you call it, is actually "chance". Yes, sometimes you can be in the right place at the right time, but becoming the leader of a country or building a billion dollar business isn't something that happens to people who punch out at 5 oclock......it happens to the guys who go the extra mile and learn how to build pipelines of money.

Totally insulting to people who have put so much time and effort into cultivating their empire.
And to say that there isn't an element of luck involved is totally insulting to everyone who has gone the extra mile, worked as hard as they could, and never got that one break.

You make your own luck, to a certain extent, but there is always an element of chance to everything in life.

Don't believe me? Just ask Elisha Gray.
 

synergy1

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Luck does play a role in success, but what is key is combining luck with the presence of mind required in order to seize great opportunities. People who wait for lucky circumstances will likely fail, while those who take the shot...ya never know.

"You miss 100% of the shots you never take"
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Never tell me the odds.

The problem with acknowledging 'luck' is that as human beings it's a survival trait for us to focus more on negative, painful experiences rather than reflect on good ones since by doing so we increase our caution level for repeating the same mistakes, and endangering our safety again. Consequently we bear more mental focus on the 'bad luck' we had in order not to repeat it. Bad luck is often more memorable than good luck, thus we tend to view ourselves as less "lucky" than others. And in the instances we see other's luckier than ourselves, this again is a negative, memorable experience.


I'll also agree with COLOSSUS' in that there are areas in which women and men perform more ably based on sex. Most of these are surmountable by training, dedication, etc. but there are physical differences that are simply unique to that particular sex.
 

Jeffst1980

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Malcolm Gladwell's "Outliers" has a great analysis on the luck vs. hard work debate.

The way I see it, hard work applied in the right direction will maximize your chances of catching a "lucky break," but won't guarantee it. We all know this--you can spend years perfecting a skill, but that in and of itself is not sufficient to get noticed by ANYONE. There are a lot of hidden factors behind so-called "lucky breaks," and some are truly beyond our control.

The best strategy is to understand what variables must come into agreement for a successful outcome and direct your efforts in this manner. For instance, if you want to write a blockbuster screenplay, you need to understand how the industry works and separate the decision makers from the gatekeepers. Then, you need to somehow find a direct route to these decision makers. But that's not enough; you also need to have created a compelling, marketable product that will justify sufficient investor interest. Then, of course, there is an issue of timing and capitalizing on opportunity.

When it's all said and done, it's easy to see why so few movies are released by major production studios, and why an "overnight success" is actually the result of a very slow cultivation process. It also explains why a lot of talented folks never make it to the top--the numbers simply aren't on their side to begin with, and if they're overly concerned with any one aspect of their career or craft, they will by necessity ignore some crucial parts of the equation.


But getting back the the thread, there is a very similar discourse in the beginning of Ken Wilbur's "A Brief History of Everything." Wilber argues that men and women co-created their roles in every culture out of necessity--there is no forced patriarchy, it's just what made sense. However, in line with the idea of evolution, this doesn't mean that biological sex difference are to be fixed for an eternity. Because of the exponential rate of evolution, in a thousand years men and women may be entirely different creatures altogether, since our environment will be radical different. Or, we may have just blown each other up by then.

For our purposes in the present day, however, traditional gender roles are what gets the job done. We don't do ourselves any favors by abandoning masculinity or by allowing women to take the lead, and that's really the end of the story. There isn't much point worrying about which sex got the better "deal"--this is our current situation and we need to make the best of it.

The nature of political correctness will probably prevent this article from being recognized as more than fringe theory, but I don't think there is much controversial material there at all.
 

Luthor Rex

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Jeffst1980 said:
It also explains why a lot of talented folks never make it to the top--
I have known more than one person with "potential" blow up. It's sad really, when you see it happen right in front of you. And it happens for so many reasons. I've seen:

Having kids too young.

Opting out at the last second to run of with some girl or guy.

Personal fears holding the person back.

Substance abuse problems.

Wanting something else more than to develop and use natural talents.

Getting involved with / married to someone who doesn't support your talents.

It kind of scares the hell out of me really. I don't want to end up like that, I don't want to have talent and get to the end of my life saying to myself "just how high could I have climbed".

So many good men have been lost and pushed aside by the choices of life. I was never a fan of the Rocky movies, but I loved this quote:

"Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It is a very mean and nasty place and it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done."
 

BudBundi

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Luck is 99% work and 1% opportunity. Focus on working hard and the opportunity will present itself.
 

Zonder

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Rollo Tomassi said:
you'll get a much better, and more balanced understanding about gender differences, feminism and how the sexes have evolved socially and psychologically.
Thanks.
 

muscleman

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Rollo, thanks for the link, it was a great read. Care comment on this line?

"I have not exhausted all the ways that culture exploits men. Certainly there are others. The male sex drive can be harnessed to motivate all sorts of behaviors and put to work in a kind of economic marketplace in which men give women other resources (love, money, commitment) in exchange for sex. "
 

Unbridled_Phoenix

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Opportunities multiply as they are seized, they die when neglected.
 
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