Is the whole PUA thing just a scam?

[synergy1]

Are you seeing what I'm saying right now? For example Rollo, I asked you a question in this response and I said, who the hell are YOU to tell another grown a.ss man what his best plan to success with women is? Do you know why I asked that question? Because for one, I HAVE NO IDEA WHO THE FVCK YOU ARE. You never posted a pic, you never posted a field report, you have no real, measurable, results with women PERIOD, for me to even KNOW if you have even spoken to a woman in the last 10 years.

But, this is Sosuave lol, and it's obvious that you don't need all of those things for this community. All you need is the ability to "write well" (despite your content being awful) and the community will applaud your every word.

And what are your measurable results? The one chick you managed to call for 3 weeks strait and get results from? All those close friends you don't have becasue you are too good for them with your ****ty MBA at the age of 27? Your throwing stones in a glass house. I wouldn't even compare you to me, let alone someone who has success like RT. Actually, its not even close both via content and personality who has more credibility than you. Actually the gang from Sesame street has more street cred. than you do.

Semantics aside, game is nothing more than a means to placate the opposite sex in order to achieve your goals. Everyone has game to a degree. Everyone has their little act. The PUA community does nothing more than focus in on them, and discuss what works and what doesn't . To that end, I feel there is some merit in what they do. However, its a business and with any business comes selling the product. A lot of what they push are unrealistic expectations which can lead people to be 'fake' good people, but no one here advocates for that. You say that the advice on women here is bad, and I disagree with that very much. Read the posts of anyone who has had good success, and the overwhelming message is simple; be the best you possible. Admit mistakes, focus on improvements, learn to grow, and create a life worthy of having a women be a part of. This isn't just good advice for getting the girl of your dreams, but its sound life advice.

Sosuave has "group A" people coming together to create "theories" based upon their FLAWED perceptions of women. This is what I've been saying over and over and that's also what the author said in that blog.

Remind me never to hire you for my next business when I need due diligence reviews. Awful. SS has people citing direct experience to back their claims. This is all I do, over and over. The others who simply post theory usually get called out. yes, they exist, but if those are the group you chose to focus on as a representative sampling of the community, than you are off base here.

 

[zekko]

One of that articles main points was to claim that our sole motive for implementing PUA techniques and/or game is to score pu**Y.

I would say that is the sole motive for a significant amount of posters here (moreso on the general discussion forum, however).

The self respect angle is one of the more valuable things that is taught here, although you shouldn't have to read a pickup forum to realize that you should respect yourself.

I only post observations from my own experiences and from what I know of the experiences of others, and then put together cogent conclusions and draw as valid theories as I can from them

That's what makes this forum valuable (and interesting), people drawing from their own experiences and observations. That's a helpful shortcut for a lot of less experienced posters, and that's how it should be.

It's when things become so overblown that the author's statements ring more true. This is a place full of nice tips, tricks, philosphies, and motivational speaking. It gets disturbing when people try to make more out of it than what it is. That's when the PUA community starts to resemble a cult.

For example: Rollo, you've said that you used to get laid. A lot. Then you got married, obviously to the right girl, if you've been married for 14 years. It was only after this that you got into the pickup community.
My point is that you obviously didn't need it. You accomplished this all on your own by learning from your own mistakes and the world around you. I have no doubt some of the information here enriched your life. Most guys on this forum would probably love to accomplish what you have, but you did it yourself without having to read a pickup forum.

There are guys here who act like you shouldn't be able to get anywhere with women unless you are a member of the community. Clearly, this is garbage. The school of hard knocks should teach you most of the same things you read here. The reason that the PUA industry is aimed toward the most backward of AFCs is that some guys just don't get it.

 

[samspade]

What the fvck? How does having GAME go from "knowing what to say, do, etc. to get in a woman's pants" to just "ANYTHING A GUY ATTEMPTS" to get a girl? Another example of a poster who "writes good" and as a result he's proped up as the KING of Sosuave, yet, what he "writes" is stupid.

[sic]

Rollo is not king of anything to my knowledge. He's a moderator here with consistently good advice. He has no authority of any kind over you or anyone else here. There are no "authorities" on this or any subject - one can be an expert at best. Sometimes even the most experienced men are wrong. If you don't want to make use of his advice or anyone else's here, then don't.

I've never paid one dime to SoSuave and my life has been much better for it.

 

[vatoloco]

Women naturally throw obstacles in the way of sex. It is the man's job to figure out how to overcome them

I don't agree with everything the author said either. But the reason this is pedestalizing is because if a woman is putting up obstacles, why should you have to try to sweep them aside? It's like if she doesn't have the interest, why should you pursue? Because you want to get to the glittering prize of her vagina.

ASD, my friend. ASD.

That's just the way it is man. That's the way women come from the factory.

ASD applies, unless of course, you're a movie/TV star, a multi-millionare and/or a loaded drug dealer.

 

[JT7890]

synergy1

And what are your measurable results? The one chick you managed to call for 3 weeks strait and get results from? All those close friends you don't have becasue you are too good for them with your ****ty MBA at the age of 27? Your throwing stones in a glass house. I wouldn't even compare you to me, let alone someone who has success like RT. Actually, its not even close both via content and personality who has more credibility than you. Actually the gang from Sesame street has more street cred. than you do.

Wow, someone is a little jealous of my MBA I see lol? I won't even bother responding to the TWISTED information you posted from my previous threads nor your jealous bytchy rants, all I will ask you is how in the hell do you know what type of "success" that Rollo has? That's my point, you don't. And because you don't know what type of success he has, it shows the flaws of the "Sosuave Community" for propping up a guy as a "EXPERT" when you don't have a clue who he is.

Gunwitch is a perfect example of this. Propped up as Sosuave King, yet, is facing damn near life in prison for shooting a chick in the face over DRUG money. The guy's picture looks like a 50 year old crack fein. That was the FIRST TIME anyone on this board ever seen Gunwitch's picture, NO WONDER according to "his theory" looks don't matter because he obviously is ugly as hell.

Remind me never to hire you for my next business when I need due diligence reviews. Awful. SS has people citing direct experience to back their claims. This is all I do, over and over. The others who simply post theory usually get called out. yes, they exist, but if those are the group you chose to focus on as a representative sampling of the community, than you are off base here.

Post a thread, right now, with ONE direct field experience from Pook and Rollo to back their theories. Go ahead, find ONE thread from Pook talking about a chick he's dating or a field report or something to back his claims OTHER then scientific theory? Then do the SAME for Rollo. These guys post nothing but claims from SCIENTISTS lol. The entire Secret of the Jerk post from Pook was based on what "scientists" said and not actual field experiences.

I have a PM box full of men from all walks of life, from a variety of cultures and ages thanking me for opening their eyes to what's been right in front of them. I've read the regular "what has SS done for you?" threads and I'm glad to see that the vast majority of the responses have been in the positive. For whatever reasons Men have found the ability to change their minds about themselves, their situations and how the women in their lives operate.

Haa, and THAT makes your advice credible? Because a couple members of the Sosuave Choir give you reps? You know there's a site called LOVESHACK and despite even worse advice, the guys over there get tons of REPS too! There are feminist forums and boards over the internet, members get REPS there too!

Really, getting reps from "the choir" really isn't significant.

Who am I? Does it really matter? I didn't start posting on SS to show anyone some path to perfection

You have countless threads on this site full of theories. If you aren't trying to lead guys down some "path" why post so many theories? Moderate the forum and keep quiet then.

What matters is the validity and thought behind the content and the ideas I present and THAT is what irks you. You have no real counter argument to those ideas, and it pisses you off that they conflict with what your narrow, lazy, comfortable scope of reality is.

Haa, oh really? You know something, I addressed your content Rollo, you never addressed MY responses to them. I have been addressing your content many times, I said the content was terrible.

For example, I said, that women aren't all the same, so how can you say "this and this will get you women" when no group of women are the same? You have YET to address that Rollo. That truth alone, dismantles damn near ever theory on this site.

The assumption behind Sosuave is that majority of women operate the same, I call a bluff. My experience is that women from Compton and women that live in Compton are nothing like the women in Beverly Hills. To further expand on that, when "Sosuave" gets together and creates theories what are the basis of these theories? Are they coming from a guy's PERSONAL experience? Are they coming from a scientist? Are they coming from a paraphrase of another "seduction expert?" MAJORITY of the Sosuave theories are coming from scientists and people that have been propped up as seduction experts.
Sosuave is nothing but a group of armchair seduction experts, that's it.

Don't rail at me because I'm pointing out the obvious. Those that aren't so drunk on the Sosuave/PUA community kool-aid know EXACTLY what I'm talking about, just like J. Darko and the guy in the blog.

 

[JT7890]

Oh and synergy, you asked where are MY measurable results? Umm....let's see, for one, I'm not propping myself up as an AUTHORITY over seduction, women, and dating like Rollo is. I post some of my field reports and go from there, in no way have I ever said nor presented myself as a category authority over this subject in the fashion that your "god" Rollo has, who you worship the ground that he walks on and sprouts off calling him "the great Rollo" or "no one has achieved as much success as the great Rollo has achieved!"

Wake up out of your Sosuave/Rollo wet dream.

 

[synergy1]

lol JT, go home and get your fvcking shinebox.

 

[azanon]

I remain as anonymous as I can for exactly that reason - you simply don't know the first rule of debate: attack the argument, not the debater.

Actually, I suspect it's mild paranoia (on your part). I don't necessarily fault you for that though since there are logical reasons to be that way. I actually chuckled a bit at your unspoken denial of my recent, private request. If you ever want to be famous or write that book you need to write, you'll need to move past this. I'm not aware of very many successful "anonymous" authors. When people who are fond of your work are ignored when wanting to know something about your personally, many will generally just assume you're an a$$hole. I'm sure you understand that.

I also hope you don't mind the mild correction, but that's actually one of many logical fallacies. It is no greater or lesser than the others. And it is only a rule of debate in-so-much that the person your debating is aware that it's a logical fallacy. If I'm debating someone I know to be ignorant, I wouldn't bat an eye using one to "strengthen my argument". For what it's worth, I believe the technical name is "Ad Hominem".

 

[JT7890]

Ha! That's your response synergy lol?? Can't answer the challenge I gave you huh, I guess not because like I said, there are NO field reports, personal chick experience posts, or anything from those guys.

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Actually, I suspect it's mild paranoia (on your part).

You might be right, but when you read screeds like JT's here can you blame me? I've never approached what I offer here from the perspective of trying to garner fame or create some cult of personality. As I stated above, I've never made a dime from anything I've written about intergender dynamics here or anywhere else. I don't get off on adulation and I certainly don't presume to be some God-like authority on women. In fact I'm a bit dumbfounded by JT's accusations. If anything, I'm one of the most criticized and scrutinized members of this forum. I've locked horns with you, JOPHIL, Collosus, Zekko, A-Unit, STR8UP, VU, all Men who's opinions, experience and insight I respect, over theories, ideas, observations, behaviors, reasonings and the conclusions drawn from all of them. Some I concur with and even adopt, others I might disagree with, but the importance is in the exchange.

I get a lot of PMs from people suggesting I start my own blog along the lines of Roissy, but I wont do so because it's too one sided. It limits the exchange of ideas between people. I prefer a forum precisely because I don't want a blog that's only an echo chamber full of sycophants. I also prefer SoSuave to the likes FastSeduction or RSD forums, because they tend to be more about PUA techniques and scripts than any real introspect into the social fundamentals and the building blocks as to why they do or do not work. Too many guys are just happy to watch the TV, I want to know how it works.

If I'm debating someone I know to be ignorant, I wouldn't bat an eye using one to "strengthen my argument". For what it's worth, I believe the technical name is "Ad Hominem".

Fair enough, and I would do the same, however, online I can be anyone I choose to be to a certain extent. KARMA, Rogue (a.k.a. Deep Dish), STR8UP and a few other local SS members know me personally. We've had dinners, been to clubs, promo events I've done, etc. They know what I do for a living, they know the car I drive, what my wife looks like, but after all of that they have to take anything I tell them about my past experiences at face value. You can do a background check about my credentials for some things, but when I say I was a minor rock star in the late 80s and early 90s, banging strippers and so on, you kind of have to take my word for it. You know me already from my online persona, and as I said there are a few members here who know I'm being honest about it, but what do you really know about me? What do you really know about a 53 y.o. guy like JOPHIL, who I'd deduce has at least 11 years more experience than I do? You have to take our word at face value to varying degrees.

While I will admit that it's useful to know you're arguing with someone lacking in pertinent experiences, or to know what their personal biases may be, those deficits are are often revealed in their opinions and the conclusions they come to.

,..all I will ask you is how in the hell do you know what type of "success" that Rollo has? That's my point, you don't. And because you don't know what type of success he has, it shows the flaws of the "Sosuave Community" for propping up a guy as a "EXPERT" when you don't have a clue who he is.

What would you like to know? What could I do to prove to you that I'm the 'real deal'? Produce a book? Start a seminar? Give you the Face Book profiles of the 40+ women I banged 20 years ago? Would you like a copy of my birth certificate, marriage license and university degrees? I could give you all of this and more and all you'd do is find some angle to prove your own bias. As I stated above, a great deal of hate is fueled by false premises. Concocting convenient scenarios, imagining the worst of your enemies, and reinterpreting their successes are a salve for the burned ego. If I linked you to a picture of myself and I looked like this guy your response would be "what a douchebag, of course he gets chicks, but they're all bar skanks and ho's". If I linked a picture of my self and I looked like this guy your response would be "OMG, WHO THE ƒUCK WOULD TAKE ADVICE FROM THIS CHODE?!!"

You see, it makes no difference who I am, what matters is the validity of my ideas. I don't have to prove sh!t to you, and no one else does either. I have posted countless threads and made too many posts to remember about "field experience" and using Game, or drawing from my own life experiences to make a point, and so have many other members, but NONE OF THAT IS DIRECTLY VERIFIABLE ON THE INTERNET.

,..when "Sosuave" gets together and creates theories what are the basis of these theories? Are they coming from a guy's PERSONAL experience? Are they coming from a scientist? Are they coming from a paraphrase of another "seduction expert?"

If I provably had multiple doctorates in behavioral psychology and human physiognomy you'd STILL find some reason to discredit my ideas, because they conflict with your very small world. People trust me. They benefit from my advice and put my "theories" into practice. I'm open to correction and adjusting those same ideas.

The assumption behind Sosuave is that majority of women operate the same, I call a bluff.

Bullsh!t. This was just recently covered in your own thread.

Romantic seduction has never been one-size-fits-all. In fact this is expressly spelled out in the introduction of the Art of Seduction by Robert Greene. You can't just blindly expect one style of seduction to work for all types of women - that's why it's called an Art. Being a good artist of any sort requires time, discipline, an ability to improvise, creation, adaptation, attention to detail, etc. There are certain basic foundational principles women adhere to (hypergamy for instance) either due to social convention or biology, but the good seductive artist uses these as a basis for an individual seduction. For instance, the seduction of a church mouse and a goth chick require two separate seductive approaches, but they'll both be influenced by the underlying influences common to all women (i.e. hypergamy, etc.). A Man's Alpha prowess will appeal to those biological foundations, but his approach in seduction needs to be measured by the conditions presented by his target.

You lose. Pay up.

 

[synergy1]

Ha! That's your response synergy lol?? Can't answer the challenge I gave you huh, I guess not because like I said, there are NO field reports, personal chick experience posts, or anything from those guys.

Thank you for proving my point.

If your point was that your a dime-piece with no reading comprehension, than you are quite welcome helping you prove that.

So you ready to shine my shoes yet? If you are lucky, i'll let you wipe my ass too.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Ach! Dammit, now I'm guilty of feeding a troll.

Please return to yourLack of Close Friends thread. They care about you over there Message Boy.

THREAD CLOSED.