Infinite Improvement [Journal]

[Fly By Night]

Okay, so she's not officially a plate yet, but we met up, she was dressed up nice and so was I. We grabbed some coffee and chatted about our backgrounds and stuff. I made her laugh and we did some playing with each other's hands. After about 30 minutes in the coffee shop, we went over to a nearby store to check out what they had. I kept it light and playful, but she did seem a little reserved. In the middle of the date, she told me she's never been to the university theatre, (a next date hint?) I told her neither did I and they normally have cool movies playing.

I just kept it chill because I had class right after the meet up. Problem is that I don't think I know the best way to escalate on her, I was thinking while we were walking, I could just slip my hand into hers. If she pulls away, I could pull away too like I was kidding around, lol. We hugged and I told her "I'll see you... later!" *implying another date*.

I think the time restricted date worked nicely to get me on a positive start. But next time, I will definitely have to move things forward before the iron gets cold. Maybe the theatre, then somewhere we can actually have some type of interaction.

 

[ARrocket]

Good work man, yeah the time frame was probably a good thing. The playing with each other's hands is definitely a good sign. I think checking out the university theater and then hanging out at your place could be a good second date

 

[Fly By Night]

Movie meet up is tonight, I will update afterwards.
------------------------------------------------
Okay, long story short, I didn't get much interest from her and I kind of want to stop contacting her.

So we met up, split our movie fare and got settled in. We make some small chat and such and such. We seem to be enjoying each others' company then the movie starts. We're watching and we're watching some more and then I put my arm around her. She's cool with that and all, so I start talking to her in her ear, just trying to make some connection so we're not sitting there not talking to each other. I slip my arm from her shoulder to around her waist and let it stay there. About 30 seconds later, she takes my hand, literally grabs my hand and throws it back on her shoulder. So I'm like, "what the f***?" (not out loud). So I just chill and try it again after about 5 mins. She lets it stay there for about 30 secs then takes it away again...

I ask her what's wrong and she just says she's not comfortable, not making eye contact while saying it or nothing. I am not really liking this situation. So we sort of hold hands and play with each others' fingers, but it did not feel very genuine. I don't know, but I can just feel it sharp in my gut when someone is not genuine about what they say/do. So I pretty much did not make any more moves for the rest of the movie.

When it's over, I told her that I wanted to take a stroll and she starts talking about where her car is parked... I was kind of angry at this point and I said "You must really be in a hurry to go somewhere, huh?" Then she starts saying that she was seeing me in an attempt to get over her ex and BLAH BLAH BLAH. Then she said that she is going "to need time". Oh no, I'm not going there with you. I told her that I did not like how she comes out to see a movie then runs off right afterwards. She apologizes, but then I apologize and say "No, sorry for wasting your time, bye." And I just walk away, I didn't even want a hug or nothing.

I'm so done with uninterested women, that I really don't care if I seem like an a**hole to them.

It's funny because she was all trying to make me stay as an orbiter for her, but if I was ryan gosling, I highly doubt she would make me wait for her or be thinking about her ex.

Lessons Learned

• That quick meetup seemed like a good idea at the time, but I was not forward enough and I was playing "safe game". I should have weeded her out harder and earlier.
• I really need to be more direct, I feel like this *taking her out for coffee* and *interesting talks* are not going to cut it for me. It's boring to say the least.

 

[Aristippus]

Hey Fly. You made a lot of mistakes here. No worries. You will learn from them. Could she have been uninterested from the start? Maybe. In some cases men will make mistakes that kill the interest that was there and if they had done things differently, could have continued moving forward. First thing is, going to a movie theater is actually a bad idea for new women. In other words, save movies at the theater for women you're already sleeping with.

You can't really connect with someone during a movie at the theater. You can't make eye contact sitting side by side and excessive conversation is rude to the other people trying to watch the movie and is unwelcome because, well, you went there to see a movie and won't be able to follow the story. You can't really connect MORE with someone in that setting.

I think your timing is off with the physical touch also. The idea is this, enjoy what a woman gives you, then let HER move things forward. If you're out with a woman and lean in for a kiss and she turns her cheek towards you, kiss her softly and gently on the cheek (not a hard peck like you would give your grandmother). Then later on, give her another soft, lingering kiss on the cheek and a long, lingering hug.

***Some people will misinterpret this and say it's being too passive and will never work. That's simply because they don't understand the point I'm trying to make. Now, let's say that you kiss her gently on the cheek and then she kisses you back, on the cheek, gently, and then slides her hands around your upper arm and leans her head on your shoulder. You haven't kissed on the lips yet, but she's moving forward. What woman would cuddle up and get nice and comfortable with a guy she has NO interest in?

You progress in baby steps and notice when she reciprocates or moves things forward a bit or shows interest through her actions. If I had been in that particular situation, I wouldn't have chosen a movie. But let's say I had. I would have just sat there nice and comfortable with my arm around her shoulder. And just continued sitting there and getting nice and comfortable for a while. And note how she acts. Then if she acts comfortable and warm, when walking her to her car either put my arm around her or hold her hand. If she's comfortable with this, then as she says goodbye, I would keep heavy eye contact, put my arms around her waist, and gently lean in to kiss her on the lips.

She would either kiss me on the lips or she would slightly turn her cheek toward me. Instead of whining and b*tching about not getting the kiss on the lips, like too many guys on here do, I would simply give her a nice, soft kiss on the cheek and then give her a lingering hug. And as I back away, if she seemed comfortable, then I would gently slide my fingers down her forearms and then squeeze her hands, break physical contact, and tell her to have a good night and to drive safely.

Whining is for b*tches. And I've never seen a leading man in a movie or book whine his way into the bedroom with a woman. Movies might not be reality, but I've also never seen a woman say "You know, this guy I went out with whined so much that it turned me on and then one thing led to another.". You and the other guys that have done this before, save whining for the women. Whining is female territory. Don't be so whiny, desperate and begging for their attention. If you REALLY want to live this philosophy of weeding out the women with low interest, then stop whining like a b*tch when a woman shows low interest and simply move on.

You're making a pathetic excuse for living it if in one breath you say you're going to weed out the women of low interest who are unworthy, but in the next breath you're begging like a bum on the street begs for change. The idea is YOU GENUINELY DO NOT WANT LOW INTEREST WOMEN, NO MATTER HOW PHYSICALLY ATTRACTIVE.

At the same time, don't mess up a good thing. I mean, learn to have better timing and not push so hard all of the time. You move forward but create opportunities for her to do the same. And if she acts like she enjoys the physical contact or is reciprocating, she's showing high interest. Enjoy what she gives you and let the sexual tension build from right where you're at in the moment. If you had simply kept your arm at shoulder height on her after she moved it up there from her waist, and just hung out there for a while and continued to be warm and friendly, she might have actually warmed up.

There's also the possibility she might have not been too interested. But I guarantee you that if you start whining and acting awkward and offended and desperate for her attention, if she was interested, that killed it right away. Then she starts acting cold and distant because you didn't handle yourself properly. She's just not feeling the same way she was before. "Oh well. I thought he was different <from all of the other guys who whine and beg for my attention>. I guess I was wrong. Too bad.".

Anyway, I'm not trying to belittle or berate you. Sometimes brutal honesty is needed to address a problem and DO SOMETHING ELSE. No one said it would be easy or that it's always nice. Keep on though. Don't give up. Just change your approach a little where it isn't working for you and keep doing what's working. I'd also suggest mentally reviewing your successes and see if you can notice any particular behaviors that you repeat that seem to be getting you the successes.

 

[Fly By Night]

Could she have been uninterested from the start? Maybe.

For my own sake of improvement, let's assume she was interested.

The movie idea was kind of bad I suppose, but she brought it up last time we met up that she wanted to go to a certain theatre, so I figured it would be thoughtful to go there next time. But definitely, watching a movie does not work well with the connecting. I should have just chilled and watched the movie normally.

I think your timing is off with the physical touch also. The idea is this, enjoy what a woman gives you, then let HER move things forward. If you're out with a woman and lean in for a kiss and she turns her cheek towards you, kiss her softly and gently on the cheek (not a hard peck like you would give your grandmother). Then later on, give her another soft, lingering kiss on the cheek and a long, lingering hug.

Here's where I just don't get the kino timing. If I couldn't get my arm around her waist, why would she let me kiss her? Maybe it was just too early for any of that. I've read some other guys' FR's and how they make moves within the first freakin' 5 minutes of the movie and it makes me wonder.

***Some people will misinterpret this and say it's being too passive and will never work. That's simply because they don't understand the point I'm trying to make. Now, let's say that you kiss her gently on the cheek and then she kisses you back, on the cheek, gently, and then slides her hands around your upper arm and leans her head on your shoulder.

Now let's say I go in for a kiss and she backs off. Now she feels uncomfortable and will start to make up in her mind that I am just like every other sleaze out there. So now things are going to go downhill or I am going to have to walk on eggshells to keep her interest. Oh, but we need repeated behaviors. I go to hold her hand and she's like "what are you doing?" and reluctantly holds it, then after the movie implies that she wants to go home. I'd rather not go through that, she had to be uninterested. But for improvement, let's say she was: two reasons that would have happened is either because I did the wrong thing (arm on waist) or I'm going too fast (again). In my opinion, I took things a lot slower versus the last time I met up with a girl and I still got the "I'm uncomfortable" vibe.

You're making a pathetic excuse for living it if in one breath you say you're going to weed out the women of low interest who are unworthy, but in the next breath you're begging like a bum on the street begs for change. The idea is YOU GENUINELY DO NOT WANT LOW INTEREST WOMEN, NO MATTER HOW PHYSICALLY ATTRACTIVE.

But I don't, I really don't. I've refused to get numbers from girls that don't show that they're interested, but at the same time I have to reach out in the first place to get them...

At the same time, don't mess up a good thing. I mean, learn to have better timing and not push so hard all of the time. You move forward but create opportunities for her to do the same. And if she acts like she enjoys the physical contact or is reciprocating, she's showing high interest. Enjoy what she gives you and let the sexual tension build from right where you're at in the moment. If you had simply kept your arm at shoulder height on her after she moved it up there from her waist, and just hung out there for a while and continued to be warm and friendly, she might have actually warmed up.

I will have to so it seems, I just don't want to go out on 80 dates with her to get a single kiss. But forget it, I made a pretty bad impression with that last interaction. Maybe if I put my arm around her the first time we went out she would have been more welcoming to around the waist.

It's whatever though, I'll look over my past successes and reflect on them

• It's a Slow Progression: If she rejects an attempt to escalate, just hang back in there.
• I can't expect her to warm up to me because of how many times we went out, but what we did while out.

 

[ARrocket]

Let me get this straight...

A girl you cold approached gave you her number, and has now met up with you not once, but TWICE. You're together watching a movie, you put your arm around her, and she is cool with that.

And you question her interest level?

You need to realize that not all girls are willing to move at the same pace. It's whether or not you are willing to slow down to her pace that should decide if you drop her or not.

Although, it's obviously too late for this one, after the way you exploded

 

[Fly By Night]

Haha, yeah

I figure that I'm comparing myself to other posters here too much. I'm definitely going to have to be more patient.

Just a quick update:
LP and me been making out here and there on the side and she came back to my place and we got half naked while making out last night. I started to pull her pants off and she was like "I like my pants on, please." I decided to place in some patience so I said okay and pulled them back up. We continued and I just joked around by pulling them down but immediately back up and she laughed at that. Today she invited me out to dinner at the cafe, I'm not doing anything today so why not.

Also:
After working out today, I walk talking to some guys and we were joking around. I turned around and I was still smiling and laughing and I made accidental eye contact with some chick, lol. I just turned away and got my stuff. On the way out the door with my guys, she was in front and she held the door open and made direct EC with me... But I still felt awkward cold approaching with my friends around, even though I'm sure they would like to see something like that. She just turned around and walked to her car. Confidence not high enough yet...

Dang :l but I should try this smiling thing more often, it seems to be getting me in the door with women.

 

[Fly By Night]

Woah, kind of let this journal go to the grave. :wave:

I was thinking I needed some time off of SS but I'm still not getting the things I need to know. LP and I started "seeing" each other, but not in a relationship. The horribly bad part about this is that she is friends with one of my friends, so one day he actually invited her out with us and to my larger amount of friends... and he KEPT doing it without letting me know. (now since they're "friends") I kind of like having my DJ life separate from my friends, but that just doesn't seem possible. So now almost my entire social circle thinks we are going to get into a relationship when I think otherwise...

I want to tell her that we should stop seeing each other, but I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of "wtf's" from my friends. At the same time, I'm a guy... I'm not going to turn down free makeout/grope sessions, especially when I'm not getting disrespected or nothing. I just need her to know that I don't have the same intent she has with this.

Okay, enough about her though
I went cold approaching on and off this whole time I wasn't posting and I've been unsuccessful for the most part, so I came back here and took a look at anything I'm missing and, sure enough, I'm still missing one thing:

Initial Eye Contact

Kind of slipped my mind, so I tried it out once again today and I CHICKENED OUT! GJ FBN! Petite girl with a bomb face, I looked at her from across the cafe, she looked at me and I glanced around... I will be honest, I am definitely not confident when it comes to women being overtly flirty with me. No way to build up to it either, it's like a cold shower feeling when I lock eyes like that.

And also
I called up my plate about 2 weeks ago to hang out and she said yeah then flaked on me. The next day she was saying that she "got sick" and "fell asleep" and whatever. She didn't even contact me to tell me this until I contacted her first and asked her what happened. It's just stupid... Just stupid how after a long ass time seeing each other, then she starts flaking and doesn't even try to explain what happened. Then she gets on FB and posting pics of hot guys and how she wants to eff them.

But it's okay,
I'm not going to go on FB and post pics of chicks I want to eff
Not gonna go on a FB rant about how women are deceitful
Not going to contact her, begging her to go out with me again

This is INFINITE IMPROVEMENT, I don't have time to go into the past chasing girls I barely managed to attain who hardly have any interest in me.
Anti-Dump's Machine sounds really nice on paper, but it really is a test of willpower to actually apply that sh!t.
I'm just going to find a woman that I like more than her.
And a woman who is better for me than she is.
I don't have what it takes to get her yet, I will just have to improve 'til I do.
Simple.

Instead of writing lessons now, I will make homework to see concrete results:

• Make extended eye contact with 3 girls by this Sunday

Shouldn't be too hard, right?

 

[Aristippus]

Hey Fly,

I want to step back for a minute. And I want you to do the same. Instead of focusing on the "problem", we simply focus on the solution. So, how do you do that? How can you focus on what needs to be done if you're not sure what needs to be done. Simple actions directed towards simple outcomes. So let's start by breaking down what it takes to meet women who are very interested in you.

There are just a few necessary steps. 1) Eye contact. 2) Conversation. 3) Turning her on.

If you connect with a woman through eye contact and conversation, she will feel a connection. If she is PHYSICALLY attracted to you, either because of your attitude or looks, part 3 will BEGIN to happen after she starts feeling a connection with you. After she begins the early stages of becoming turned on, innocent or playful touch, used occasionally, will amplify step 3 and she will be turned on even more. All of the physical stuff, like kissing, groping, and sex will only happen if she's sexually aroused.

Now on to ACTION

Now that we've determined the necessary steps, we practice only one or two steps at a time, at our leisure. The idea is to create a low-pressure way of making progress. This works very well because, first, there's a simple order and you can get good at doing the early steps without any pressure to accomplish step 3. In fact, YOU CAN'T GET HER TURNED ON WITHOUT DOING STEPS ONE AND 2 FIRST.

Once you break down what is necessary to achieve your goal, you engage in the behaviors that will automatically achieve the goal without having to think about the goal because YOU BROKE DOWN THE END RESULT INTO NECESSARY STEPS THAT NATURALLY WILL LEAD TO IT. You'd might as well say that The steps necessary to reach the goal = the goal
.

None of us really want babies that bad. Humans want sex 100 times more than we want raising a baby into adulthood. We have babies, not because we think all day about babies. Humans have babies because we want sex. Nature tricked us into having babies by giving us a strong urge for the thing that will naturally result in the end goal of reproducing. College guys aren't thinking "I want to have BABIES!". "Man. That woman with the nice rack over there could make some nice babies!"

Our focus is sex. Thank goodness for contraceptives because without them I would probably be the father of at least 10 children by now and my life would svck! For the sake of simplicity, let's say that which is necessary to achieve the goal = the goal.
In the same way, by simply becoming comfortable with the behaviors, one step at a time, that LEAD UP TO the goal of finding interested women and turning them on, we will have plenty of sex with them WITHOUT having to obsess over the act.

Eye Contact + Conversation + Turning her on = A woman who wants to have sex with you

Now, forget about the sex. It will happen automatically. Your homework for the next 2 months is to simply make eye contact and have conversation with women. Just normal conversations. And if your mood happens to be good, sometimes the conversation will be fun or lively. Other times it will be more normal or even boring. You can use this opportunity to practice any fun conversational skills, if you'd like. Do NOT try to impress her. Do NOT try to be funny. Do NOT ask for her number. The only way you hang out or get together is if SHE initiates. If SHE asks you to spend time with her. If SHE asks for your number or gives you hers WITHOUT YOU ASKING.

But numbers are not the goal. You are to simply eat and breathe steps 1 and 2......for 2 months...... Eye contact and conversation. Until it's normal and easy, maybe even fun. Your secondary goal is to thoroughly enjoy every moment you're away from women. Thoroughly enjoy and indulge in the activities you like. Play video games and think of nothing else. Have lunch with one of your friends and think of nothing else. Watch silly videos on the internet. Exercise. Enjoy time with family. Enjoy time with friends. Watch good TV shows and movies. Enjoy the outdoors. Read a good book. Get engrossed in what you enjoy when you're not around women. When around women, eye contact and conversation, and then get engrossed in the setting. Maybe it's a party. Talk to her. Eye contact. Now go meet and have fun with other people. You're at a party! Indulge in the pleasures of the environment while practicing in a low-pressure manner. This is your homework. Now DO IT.

 

[Fly By Night]

I don't think I'm seeing that much improvement, but I'm still trying.

I'm going around, trying to make eye contact with women, and about 50% of them are too blank-minded to notice me looking at them. 40% of them notice me looking at them, then instantly look away, not in the shy way. Nearly 10% of them look back at me, but then look away because I didn't smile or say something to them.

There was one girl that I eyed down pretty nicely. I was walking along the street with my buddy and she was this short, tanned chick (Mexican or Indian, I honestly couldn't tell) and I looked at her directly in the eyes. She glanced at me, looked away, but then did a double take back at me and we locked eyes as we past. I was with my friend so I didn't want to just start walking the other way, but I finally got an eye lock!

I also saw somewhere on the forum that girls may also look down when they see someone they like. I didn't understand it or think about it at the time, but then I saw this video that kind of explained it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVeQ6Vk8y7M

After that, I realized that I dismissed girls who looked away immediately, but my first "successful" eye contact was when she looked away at first. Maybe it's a confidence thing that a guy should continue to look at a girl who looked away. Just some thought as I am reaching the halfway point.

Lesson: When you go for the eye contact, keep looking even if she glances away. She might have been off guard.