If you´re not good-looking, you are doomed to a bad/little special treatment

[Who Dares Win]

I would agree. Simply because many women don't care about the plight of straight men. I am under the impression. Good looks are like the required default BEFORE interests, views, values, morals etc.
The 'man up' mantra is sometimes to me just there to provide hope.

I believe balls and action are importat but as cathalyzers not means themselves, if you are good looking but dont approach the girl you are not gonna get her, agree on that but if you are ugly no amount of "effort" on that uninterested girl will make it any different.

I understand in this world, men still feel like they can make it with an effort somehow like the american dream where everyone with hard work could have get a big house and a cabrio but we all know its not like that.

Whatever you are, balls and action will make sure you reach whats at your range but if you are a water gun no matter how hard you shot, you aint gonna penetrate metal.

In this case I totally support the suggestion of becoming the best you can which is given here, hit the gym, get a degree or make yourself a top dog and so on...but telling people that whatever they are its enough to reach the top just because they go for it, is delusional.

What is the difference between this mindset and the "you go gurl" one where fat ugly girls confidently think they can score top dogs just because they are gonna go for it?

 

[captain55]

If you are an average guy like most men on the planet, ie, with no or little physical, financial and attractive personality, you are doomed to a bad or little special treatment from your future girlfriend. I met many couples in my miserable life. Good-looking bastards are best treated by girlfriends who do not un-cling much from them, women treat them with more respect and in good mood.

Who is more likely to cheat? An ugly / average guy that is vilified by women on a daily basis, which has a destroyed self-esteem because of looks of disgust from women or an handsome hunk who receives indirect stares, smiles, and compliments? Who has more self-esteem? who has more women available ? who suffers more temptation to bang a naughty one? who is more confident in general?

Women love to mess with committed men, they are indignant at seeing another female dating a handsome man and start to seduce him by means of all female typical subtle ways. Aware of this, what a girlfriend is going to do? Well, She Will have to treat him better.

Now, if she has an ugly / average boyfriend, what is the incentive that she has to treat him well? She has thousands of men to choose from anywhere lining up for her. She Just has to be receptive and this also applies to average-looking women too. So she has several best looking guys than her current average/ugly boyfriend .It’s HIM who has to behave and pamper her eternally or he is going to face the music. This type of man is ruined. The slightest and meaningless mistake he makes it’s sufficient for a girlfriend to whine,complain and threaten to break up. Ugly/Average men have to be perfect in everything if they are looking for a girlfriend and keep her.

How would you explain an 8/10 male getting cheated on by his 6/10 girlfriend with a guy less attractive then himself? The answer is simple….all that matters is how attractive the woman your seeing is to you. Only pursue women with high IL and a strong initial physical attraction to you. I promise if your at least a 5-6/10 facially you will find a hot chick that thinks your good looking. Now if a guy is a 4/10 or below he's probably ****ed

 

[guru1000]

Guru I agree with you with most of what you say in this board but not in this case, agree that crying instead of acting will surely lead to nowhere but at the same time shaming someone for acknowledging a fact is wrong too.

Saying that action and balls will get you at the top is totally delusional, if you are short and skinny with a crappy hair line not even a couple of iron pool sized balls between your legs are gonna lead you in a position remotely closer to a guy which is tall, well built with a head full of hair and a squared jaw.

Its the same of a fat girl thinking that her bachelor degree and attitude will set her even with hot girls.

I may be wrong, actually I hope to be wrong, so if you have any explanation of how an ugly guy can use his balls and succeed in an approach (wheter its a night club or a peer group meeting) I will be grateful to know.

With some common sense all I notice is that when unattractive guys "take action" all they obtain is getting called "creepy", a behaviour is not good or bad by itself but according to who does it in modern society, at least thats what I observe.

It's never binary, but if you had to choose between being unattractive with balls and action--or--attractive with neither balls nor action, which would you choose?

The former could own the world should he choose (and a harem of his choosing). Delusion is name-calling to those who are uninformed. Steve Jobs was called "delusional" by many, but, nonetheless, built the largest corporation in the world.

Your thoughts are shaped by your experiences and conditioning, and until you meet MANY nobodies who become somebodies, your thought process will be incarcerated by its sphere of social influences.

An unattractive guy can make himself much more attractive. So does congenital attractiveness outweigh balls/action?

 

[TheMagician]

If you are an average guy like most men on the planet, ie, with no or little physical, financial and attractive personality, you are doomed to a bad or little special treatment from your future girlfriend. I met many couples in my miserable life. Good-looking bastards are best treated by girlfriends who do not un-cling much from them, women treat them with more respect and in good mood.

I've banged more and hotter women when I was flat broke and had no job, and no car, and rode my ten speed everywhere. Granted I was fit.

Who is more likely to cheat? An ugly / average guy that is vilified by women on a daily basis, which has a destroyed self-esteem because of looks of disgust from women or an handsome hunk who receives indirect stares, smiles, and compliments? Who has more self-esteem? who has more women available ? who suffers more temptation to bang a naughty one? who is more confident in general?

It comes down to the individuals morals, and opportunity, and age. Don't even worry about it.

Women love to mess with committed men, they are indignant at seeing another female dating a handsome man and start to seduce him by means of all female typical subtle ways. Aware of this, what a girlfriend is going to do? Well, She Will have to treat him better.

Not entirely true. Women like committed men because they have a type of swagger and aren't going to get hung up on her if she wants to play with other men. Committed men don't text you all day either. I think it's more likely that women like that see another women happy and wants to take her toy so she can be happy. People don't really grow out of the playground politics. We just over complicate them as we get older. That's my EXP. If a women is in a relationship and happy that says a lot about her man.

Now, if she has an ugly / average boyfriend, what is the incentive that she has to treat him well? She has thousands of men to choose from anywhere lining up for her. She Just has to be receptive and this also applies to average-looking women too. So she has several best looking guys than her current average/ugly boyfriend .It’s HIM who has to behave and pamper her eternally or he is going to face the music. This type of man is ruined. The slightest and meaningless mistake he makes it’s sufficient for a girlfriend to whine,complain and threaten to break up. Ugly/Average men have to be perfect in everything if they are looking for a girlfriend and keep her.

Hummm....... I would just leave a relationship if a chick was stringing me along like that. It says you're desperate and have no self-confidence. Even if I had kids (and I do have one) I would leave. I will never allow a partner of mine to even expect that I'm going act or even am perfect. If this woman has "Thousands of men" hitting on her why is she with you? Because she likes you. If she doesn't and isn't acting like she likes you it's time to leave brah. That's abuse and it sounds like you should read about "Co-dependent relationships." I don't care if I'm married or not, if my woman is acting nasty and not putting out I'm going to get it somewhere else. Before the marriage act of 1753 (UK and due to the year all of the colonies), if your wife didn't please you it was socially accepted to send her back to her family. Also stop spending your money on weed and beer. Start buying more clothes and new necklaces, etc... looking interesting isn't hard. sometimes it only takes a hemp necklace a some new clothes.

 

[old married dude]

If looks are the end all/be all then explain this...I'm considered "pretty cute" 7.5 - 8/10 by most women, pretty athletic, educated, outgoing, stylish, etc. but I still have to put in a TON of effort with game/charm, wit, etc.

I have an acquaintance I know who's seriously about a 3/10 on the looks scale, does not work out, has skinny arms & legs with a gut, only has a GED, works a crappy job (doesn't own a car), dresses like a slob (goes out in stained t shirts with holes in them), and really has no game whatsoever, but he puts in ZERO effort and picks up tons of women.

What's the difference here you ask? He's 6'9" and I'm 5'8"

So it's not looks that are most important.

 

[BrainDamage92]

Well I look good and try to be as honest as possible and all I get is backstabbing from ugly ass mofos who get complexed

Everyone suffers...

 

[TheMagician]

If looks are the end all/be all then explain this...I'm considered "pretty cute" 7.5 - 8/10 by most women, pretty athletic, educated, outgoing, stylish, etc. but I still have to put in a TON of effort with game/charm, wit, etc.

I have an acquaintance I know who's seriously about a 3/10 on the looks scale, does not work out, has skinny arms & legs with a gut, only has a GED, works a crappy job (doesn't own a car), dresses like a slob (goes out in stained t shirts with holes in them), and really has no game whatsoever, but he puts in ZERO effort and picks up tons of women.

What's the difference here you ask? He's 6'9" and I'm 5'8"

So it's not looks that are most important.

Charm, that's something I see missing from most pickup material. I hear about being ****y-funny, or negging.... None of that has ever worked for me. I've always been called Charming, and confident.

I'm sure some people think Rosanne Bar is charming though.....

 

[Serenity]

Men with low self-esteem are most likely to cheat, they are also the same men who has a sh!tty girlfriend. Either because he attracted sh!t to begin with or she turned into sh!t because she can't break it off and the guy makes her this way.

I have a girlfriend who treats me well and I would be a complete fvcking idiot to cheat on her. If I ever felt inclined to cheat it must be because I'm not satisfied with my girlfriend to the point I would betray her trust, in that case I would have low self-esteem to cheat because I don't have the courage to end an unsatisfying relationship.

Cheating just simply isn't good hence the name. There's plenty of better and less emotionally damaging solutions out there, but they are harder for a man to do. However going the hard way gains respect and thus is what high self-esteem people choose. Not only does cheating hurt others but it can hurt yourself socially, because it means nobody will trust you.

People with low self-esteem are more likely to cheat either because they don't understand social consequences or they don't give a sh!t. Cheating is still a risk though, you may not get caught, but if you do the consequences will be huge. It's not worth the risk and if you have an awesome girlfriend it's pure insanity.

 

[Who Dares Win]

It's never binary, but if you had to choose between being unattractive with balls and action--or--attractive with neither balls nor action, which would you choose?

The former could own the world should he choose (and a harem of his choosing). Delusion is name-calling to those who are uninformed. Steve Jobs was called "delusional" by many, but, nonetheless, built the largest corporation in the world.

Your thoughts are shaped by your experiences and conditioning, and until you meet MANY nobodies who become somebodies, your thought process will be incarcerated by its sphere of social influences.

An unattractive guy can make himself much more attractive. So does congenital attractiveness outweigh balls/action?

I dont recall steve jobs banging top models day by day, lets not confuse being successful and well treated from women with being successful as a man in your job...napoleon was ugly but with balls of steel, he conquered most of Europe and so on yet he wasnt much of a playboy, I recall he got a lady older than him and an other couple but mostly due to his status.

On the other side you have the hot pool boy whose life sucks, has no money nor the balls to take his own fate and claim success yet Im sure he is banging all the wives of the millionaire he goes to clean the pool and probably by initiative of those women.

About your question if given the choice I would be unattractive with balls, I mean its not actually my choice since that was decided mostly before I was born.

Again lets not confuse success and personal value with success with women and availability of easy sex and special treatment.

Can we say that hawkings is successful and that he has balls? he is a monster yet one of the most brilliant minds of the century and despite his condition he claims attention and respect in the scientific community, hard to find any more balls than this yet I dont believe there would be hotties in line to bang him nor he would get special treatment or attention in a country where he is not known.

Those nobodies who became somebodies have all my admiration and respect but they are not gonna get one night stands with models unless they are hot themselves, thats what we were talking about from the first post, the fact that unless you have a certain look score, hardly you will have those privileges and special treatment granted for free to hot guys.

 

[guru1000]

WDW, you miss my point entirely.

Let's say we have two men:

• A 5 with all balls, all action.
  
• A 9 with no balls, no action.

The 5 could get his pick of the litter. How, you ask? The 5 could make the capital improvements necessary to become a 9 (i.e., physique, hair transplant if necessary, facial cosmetic work, etc). Then he will go out to the streets, and clean up.

What does the congenital 9 do? He sits and takes ONLY what life offers to him.

Let's take guys like Hawkings or Jobs in your example: If their passions were to become DJs (and we level the playing field for Hawkins so that he is not incapacitated), they would absolutely clean up more than anybody you ever heard of. Why? There would be no end to the capital improvements and game they would bring upon themselves.

It's never binary (either or). Just illustrating that on their face, balls and action (if directed to DJism) trump congenital good-looks.

 

[Who Dares Win]

WDW, you miss my point entirely.

Let's say we have two men:

• A 5 with all balls, all action.
  
• A 9 with no balls, no action.

The 5 could get his pick of the litter. How, you ask? The 5 could make the capital improvements necessary to become a 9 (i.e., physique, hair transplant if necessary, facial cosmetic work, etc). Then he will go out to the streets, and clean up.

What does the congenital 9 do? He sits and takes ONLY what life offers to him.

Let's take guys like Hawkings or Jobs in your example: If their passions were to become DJs (and we level the playing field for Hawkins so that he is not incapacitated), they would absolutely clean up more than anybody you ever heard of. Why? There would be no end to the capital improvements and game they would bring upon themselves.

It's never binary (either or). Just illustrating that on their face, balls and action (if directed to DJism) trump congenital good-looks.

I didnt miss you point, I just find it not correct.

I believe this whole "you can work and get to the top" is over rated when it comes of women.

Please explain me how someone that looks like joe pesci can "work" till becoming like one of those fitness models you see on iron man magazine.

Tell me how a short guy with narrow shoulders and ugly face can work till getting as much if not more than someone naturally born tall, wide shouldered, head full of hair and simmetrical face.

It reminds me that scum from pick up artists trying to convince rich betas that if they buy their manual to "step up their game" they are gonna have models getting wet every night.

Balls and game allows you to reach what is your potential, if you're stupid with plenty of balls you dont become an astronaute, if you are short and ugly balls wont get you with the high school queen or the hottie next door.

But if you believe otherwise free to be, I honestly find it delusional but again I dont expect to be right, Im sure everyone in his everyday life can find examples and decide accordingly.

Let me remember you that from the first post we are talking about special treatment, credit, unlimited tolerance to bad behaviour and so on.

I repeat the ugly guy with balls which become the multibillionare ceo has more chances to get cheated from his trophy wife with the hot pool boy than the gf of the pool boy cheating on him with the ugly successful millionare.

There would be no end to the capital improvements and game they would bring upon themselves.

Disagree unless you know a way to move to 5'5 to 6' or ot make your shoulder wider which are among the first thing noticed from women.

What does the congenital 9 do? He sits and takes ONLY what life offers to him.

Which is probably still more than what the 5 can get using his balls and chasing everywhere.

Again thats my opinion, there is no obligation to agree on that.

 

[sambwoy]

Improve your appearance if looks matter sooooo much (which they dont IMO).

That's really for the girl to decide. Often she'll also have peer pressure i.e friends and media to make her decisions for her unless she was brought up otherwise. These include the 8s and 9s who socially 'disqualified' you on sight, then came back once they found you weren't what they thought.

Unfortunately strange women don't tend big us up on our looks like our mothers did. There's probably a reason why I don't have many female friends- I'm not 'cute' enough to even be a friend.

 

[RangerMIke]

If a woman gets away with treating her man with disrespect it is because her so called man let's her. Really nothing to do with looks everything to do with a man lacking confidence. She treats him poorly because he is not acting like a man... And he isn't because he sits there and puts up with it.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

WDW, you miss my point entirely.

Let's say we have two men:

• A 5 with all balls, all action.
  
• A 9 with no balls, no action.

The 5 could get his pick of the litter. How, you ask? The 5 could make the capital improvements necessary to become a 9 (i.e., physique, hair transplant if necessary, facial cosmetic work, etc). Then he will go out to the streets, and clean up.

What does the congenital 9 do? He sits and takes ONLY what life offers to him.

Let's take guys like Hawkings or Jobs in your example: If their passions were to become DJs (and we level the playing field for Hawkins so that he is not incapacitated), they would absolutely clean up more than anybody you ever heard of. Why? There would be no end to the capital improvements and game they would bring upon themselves.

It's never binary (either or). Just illustrating that on their face, balls and action (if directed to DJism) trump congenital good-looks.

Most guys would be shocked what they could actually get, right now without doing anything other than showing confidence to walk up and talk with women. Too many guys disqualify themselves in their own minds before even talking to a woman.

 

[pyros]

it's crystal clear that nowadays any guy from below average to above average has to PUT A LOT OF EFFORT if he wants to have sex with a woman HE finds attractive, a lot of work. Or...he can do nothing...and he may eventually find a gf he finds ok just by chance.

I have a guy friend of mine that has followed the same pattern after breaking up with his gfs.
This is...he did literally nothing to find another chick. Everytime we went to a club or some social event, he just did nothing, never approached any woman, while me and other friends were actively trying to pick-up girls.

Well, he kept doing the same, ie nothing, for around 3.5 years until he met his now gf in a b-day party. They were introduced to each other by another friend.
It's been three years now and they are still together. The chick is kinda cute, nice etc. But...he just got her cause he was lucky. He did not put any effort, he did not go on stupid dates that go nowhere, he did not get rejected dozens of times, he did not got flaked on etc; he did not have any sex whatsoever though.

So, you can A) actively go to pick-up chicks and...unless you're super handsome or famous...it is just pretty difficult, and after dozens of rejections you get mad and kind of depressed.
Or B), do like my buddie, and just 'wait' until the right chick appears, so you avoid all the problems guys discuss here over and over.

Crappy options both of them lol.

 

[badboyjmm]

So, you can A) actively go to pick-up chicks and...unless you're super handsome or famous...it is just pretty difficult, and after dozens of rejections you get mad and kind of depressed.
Or B), do like my buddie, and just 'wait' until the right chick appears, so you avoid all the problems guys discuss here over and over.

Crappy options both of them lol.

Well I rather do A because if I can find a way to get out of my head and just meet girls in my daily activities, I'm sure I would have my roster in no time.

Actively pick-up chicks is cool to start, but it can get really depressing if nothing sticks because you become dependent of the outcome. If you are just meeting chicks while you are going places you will not care as much to score.

B) Just waiting indeed is pretty sad, but focusing on some other areas in your life would make things better. Being semi-interested in females seems to work better than just actively trying to pick up in my opinion

 

[TheMagician]

WDW, you miss my point entirely.

Let's say we have two men:

• A 5 with all balls, all action.
  
• A 9 with no balls, no action.

The 5 could get his pick of the litter. How, you ask? The 5 could make the capital improvements necessary to become a 9 (i.e., physique, hair transplant if necessary, facial cosmetic work, etc). Then he will go out to the streets, and clean up.

What does the congenital 9 do? He sits and takes ONLY what life offers to him.

Let's take guys like Hawkings or Jobs in your example: If their passions were to become DJs (and we level the playing field for Hawkins so that he is not incapacitated), they would absolutely clean up more than anybody you ever heard of. Why? There would be no end to the capital improvements and game they would bring upon themselves.

It's never binary (either or). Just illustrating that on their face, balls and action (if directed to DJism) trump congenital good-looks.

Wow this thread digressed.... I'm gonna have to say I get guru100 here. it's simply about he man's drive for personal improvement. I have personal exp in this matter from both angels.

In my late teens and early 20's I never had to work for it. I had a good strong chin, and I looked like a combo of Brad Pit and Leo DeCaprio. My hair even naturally streaked blonde when I was out in the sun for a day or two. I worked in Cafe's and book stores and banged 3-4 chicks a year. Not all that impressive of a number, but better than most of my friends to this day. When I was 21 I had to get glasses, but never wore them unless I needed to see far. Now my vision is worse and I need them all the time. It was odd earing people use different adjectives to describe me. All the sudden people put you in a frame of "being smart" or a nerd when you wear glasses. I had never heard people say that sort of thing to be before. It was odd and noticeable. It also didn't help that when I joined the army I had to wear the big birth control glasses (BCG's because you will never get laid with them on!)
This was a big change because people that would meet me prior to this would peg me as a ladies man, or a player but that wasn't on my mine at all. I guess it was the way I looked. what eve's the past is the past. My point is that I took what came my way. After glasses and being in the army my looks and game went way down. I gained weight and went from 150 to 210 lbs. It was mostly muscle but it wasn't good and I wasn't healthy.

Forward to today - I'm 160 lbs, I got lasik a few months ago and have found my own dress style that works for me. Things are improving significantly. I'm in my 30's now and don't look like Brad Pit or Leo anymore. If you saw me you would be shocked and not believe that I'm the same person. I think I got ugly, but I could give a **** because I'm kempt and women seem to like me. Trust me it's a lot worse to lose it than to never have had it in the first place. I'm surprised how effective not having to wear glasses has worked for me.

So recap: I lost weight, got rid of the glasses, and found some style. Where as if I had stayed home and not needed glasses I would have never found that drive to improve and taken what I was given and not sought out more. I was happy, now I have goals.

 

[nismo-4]

Most guys would be shocked what they could actually get, right now without doing anything other than showing confidence to walk up and talk with women. Too many guys disqualify themselves in their own minds before even talking to a woman.

I agree with this to a point. I say that because it all depends on the woman's interest in you, and in what level. If you pass the looks, you're in lover's lane. Less looks but more money and status will likely get you pegged as a big beta provider or orbiter.

And about the balls and action...that's fine and dandy! Always take action even if it means your ego will take a hit or two. If rejected, you were unattractive or she was sexually unavailable. But how far you get with a woman hinges on her interest, her emotions, and what she needs in the now, and her near infinite options.

Sitting back and waiting is like trying to win the powerball lottery. And you have a better chance of winning if you play more.

Case closed.

 

[BrainDamage92]

The "if only" post was dead on. I look awesome, I mean 6 feet long legs short torso, strong in the arms but slim and all (from working rather than going to the gym), and still go like: "If only I had mountains of gold, if only I dont go bald like the old man, he looks like Bruce Willice replica so hes good Imma brown eyed boy Im fuked, if only I was tough enough to not get affected by women, if only I was dumb and didnt dwell on stuff this much, if only I could quit booze and cigs, if only people didnt say I look 5 years older than I am" etc etc etc

the "if only" is what drives you forward or drags you down, you choose

I think Ill make it big, I see most people, they are naive, in my short 23 years on the Earth I lived. Im ahead.

Have faith in yourself.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

it's crystal clear that nowadays any guy from below average to above average has to PUT A LOT OF EFFORT if he wants to have sex with a woman HE finds attractive, a lot of work. Or...he can do nothing...and he may eventually find a gf he finds ok just by chance.

I have a guy friend of mine that has followed the same pattern after breaking up with his gfs.
This is...he did literally nothing to find another chick. Everytime we went to a club or some social event, he just did nothing, never approached any woman, while me and other friends were actively trying to pick-up girls.

Well, he kept doing the same, ie nothing, for around 3.5 years until he met his now gf in a b-day party. They were introduced to each other by another friend.
It's been three years now and they are still together. The chick is kinda cute, nice etc. But...he just got her cause he was lucky. He did not put any effort, he did not go on stupid dates that go nowhere, he did not get rejected dozens of times, he did not got flaked on etc; he did not have any sex whatsoever though.

So, you can A) actively go to pick-up chicks and...unless you're super handsome or famous...it is just pretty difficult, and after dozens of rejections you get mad and kind of depressed.
Or B), do like my buddie, and just 'wait' until the right chick appears, so you avoid all the problems guys discuss here over and over.

Crappy options both of them lol.

Dude you keep posting this crybaby nonsense that simply isn't true.

Know how you have sex with a woman? Show some fvcking balls while you are on a date with her and escalate sexually. That's why you don't have sex with woman. Because every field report you write has NO part of the date where any type of escalation occurs. This isn't rocket science. Show her you have sexual interest in her and you'd probably have a lot better success.