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If there were a public execution tomorrow

backbreaker

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in you city of a man who committed an act that was so horrific.. i don't want to get too grahpic but let's just say that there was no question about rather or not the guy should be put to death assuming your state has the death penalty, but they decided to make an example of the guy and in the middle of the town they let everyone come and watch him get tortured and killed, in the most horrific way you can imagine, would you go watch it?
 

Who Dares Win

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I wouldnt mind to see some ferocious criminal to be hanged as long as we're sure by evindence and not by trial that he is guilty.

Those guys who raided a old couples home and tortured them to know where they money is would do a great show,hell I would press the button myself.
 

backbreaker

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Who Dares Win said:
I wouldnt mind to see some ferocious criminal to be hanged as long as we're sure by evindence and not by trial that he is guilty.

Those guys who raided a old couples home and tortured them to know where they money is would do a great show,hell I would press the button myself.
i'm not talking about hanging. iu'm talking about , turning a dude upside down and sawing him in half type ****. sticking red hot irons up a guys rectum. true mid evil type ****.
 

Dedication

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I would go to see it, i've never witnessed somebody getting killed so it would give me great perspective to compare my problems to his, i think it can even give me some motivation to work harder and it would make me mentally stronger. Now about the actual looking, i'm not sure if i can keep my eyes and ears open at all times. How about you Backbreaker? Could you stand to look at a man being tortured like that?
 

backbreaker

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Dedication said:
I would go to see it, i've never witnessed somebody getting killed so it would give me great perspective to compare my problems to his, i think it can even give me some motivation to work harder and it would make me mentally stronger. Now about the actual looking, i'm not sure if i can keep my eyes and ears open at all times. How about you Backbreaker? Could you stand to look at a man being tortured like that?
i'm a pretty cold blooded bastard so yeah i could do it. it actually intrigues me to see someone have that much pain i would be interested to see how they deal with it. the entire process intrigues me. sitting hter eknowing you are not only going to die, that's one thing. knowing that you are about to go through unbearable pain to only die afterwards is another. like people in death row they don't want to die. n whereas a person who is getting tourched like that i would imagine they can't wait to die

i believe that there is a certain pain threshold that a person reaches and they stop feeling. kinda like a emergency pain stop gap system or something.
 

Bible_Belt

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i believe that there is a certain pain threshold that a person reaches and they stop feeling.

Yeah, it's called "shock." When you see a cat batting around a mouse that is about to die, the mouse is in shock and likely not feeling much. The art of torture is inflicting pain without the recipient going into shock or death.

The Taliban typically have to force villagers to witness their executions, at least from what I read.
 

Warrior74

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No. I'm not interested in seeing that at all. If I had to watch, I'd watch, but if I had a choice, I'd choose not to.
 

Atom Smasher

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No, I wouldn't. Going to witness things like that for the thrill tends to open up bad things in your personality that are best left on the back burner. I would not be the same man going home.

Having said that, if I were king I would be shockingly ruthless about crime. Any crime whatseover that involved a weapon against someone unkown to the criminal would be executed. That means if a man threatens another's life for the purpose of robbery, he dies (or she). He doesn't have to actually hurt them. He dies for having threatened to take their life. Of course in cases like that there would have to be video, witnesses, etc. If there was slight doubt it would be life in prison, no parole.

In your hypothetical, bb, the people would only learn that while his heinous crime is severely punished, other things still get a relative slap on the wrist. I believe that the act of torture makes monsters of the torturers. It would have to change you in a fundamental way and give you a thirst for more. Ditto on just watching.
 

Deep Dish

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Atom Smasher:
Having said that, if I were king I would be shockingly ruthless about crime. Any crime whatseover that involved a weapon against someone unkown to the criminal would be executed. That means if a man threatens another's life for the purpose of robbery, he dies (or she). He doesn't have to actually hurt them. He dies for having threatened to take their life. Of course in cases like that there would have to be video, witnesses, etc. If there was slight doubt it would be life in prison, no parole.
That is no way to rule. The death penalty, regardless of culpability of the perpetrator, has a brutalization effect. There is no deterrent effect. Not only do states with the death penalty have higher murder rates, but murder rates increase for six months after every high-profile death penalty case. So you would only be amplifying the vicious cycle of macabre destruction. Furthermore, jury nullification occurs when punishments don’t fit the proportionality of the crime.
 

Atom Smasher

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Deep Dish said:
That is no way to rule. The death penalty, regardless of culpability of the perpetrator, has a brutalization effect. There is no deterrent effect. Not only do states with the death penalty have higher murder rates, but murder rates increase for six months after every high-profile death penalty case. So you would only be amplifying the vicious cycle of macabre destruction. Furthermore, jury nullification occurs when punishments don’t fit the proportionality of the crime.
Patently untrue.

The numbers show conclusively that there is a deterrent effect.

In my kingdom, you threaten someone in a premeditated way with a weapon in order to commit a crime, you give up your right to live.

After a couple years of cleaning house, the deterrent effect would be very obvious to even those who believe that thugs should receive only a slap on the wrist for their brutality.

Just as a man teaches others what they can and cannot get away with with him, so a society teaches what people can get away with. The death penalty serves the purpose of eliminating the scum and low-lifes of the world who would think nothing of whacking your sister or your mother. And I have noticed that the more liberal of us tend to change their tune on the subject when reality hits that close to home. It is very noble for the king or the state to protect its citizenry from murderous maggots.
 

Bible_Belt

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The death penalty serves the purpose of eliminating the scum and low-lifes of the world...

Well, maybe some of the black and brown ones. Especially if they're mentally retarded.

I have noticed that the more liberal of us tend to change their tune on the subject when reality hits that close to home.

There's a famous case where some teenagers were throwing rocks at Amish people for fun, because they wouldn't fight back. One of the rocks struck an infant child in the head, and he died in his mother's arms. When the police came to take statements, none of the Amish would co-operate with the investigation. They told the police that they did not believe in the government and their law, and that it was up to God to judge the kid who threw the rock. I respect that very much.
 

speed dawg

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Deep Dish said:
That is no way to rule. The death penalty, regardless of culpability of the perpetrator, has a brutalization effect. There is no deterrent effect. Not only do states with the death penalty have higher murder rates, but murder rates increase for six months after every high-profile death penalty case. So you would only be amplifying the vicious cycle of macabre destruction. Furthermore, jury nullification occurs when punishments don’t fit the proportionality of the crime.
This may be true, but it is because this country's justice system is, well, not very efficient.

Fear is what preserves the order of things. If the death penalty was actually handed out for violent crimes as it should, it would definitely be a deterrent. That's common sense.

Let's face it, we don't live in a predominantly Amish world. Honestly, I wouldn't mind that life as Bible Belt described, but it's not too realistic. You MUST command a certain amount of respect or this world will beat you to your knees. God also said to obey your worldly authorities. Ten commandments, anyone?
 

Deep Dish

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Atom Smasher:
Patently untrue.

The numbers show conclusively that there is a deterrent effect.
‘Patently untrue?’ ‘Conclusive?’ Those are mighty strong words. I encourage you to prove me wrong.

States with the death penalty have consistently higher murder rates (source), and murder rates drop when there are less executions. It’s sometimes argued that murder rose as the number of executions fell from the mid-1960’s-1970’s, but as William Bowers noted “[C]ompared with yearly changes in the national homicide rates from 1962 on, states with reduced executions tended to have reduced homicide rates and those with increased executions tended to have increased homicide rates.” (Bowers, William J. (1988). “The Effect of Executions is Brutalization, Not Deterrence,” pp 49-89 in KC. Haas and J.A. Inciardi (eds.) Challenging Capital Punishment: Legal and Social Science Approaches.)

In the textbook Criminology (8th edition) by Larry Siegel, “The most thorough research efforts fail to find any relationship between the use of capital punishment and reductions in the violence rate. For example, Keith Harries and Derral Cheatwood studied differences in homicide rates in 293 contiguous counties within the United States that differed in the use of capital punishment and found that there were actually higher violent crime rates in counties that routinely employed the death penalty.” In 1980, William Bowers and Glenn Pierce found:
In this study, we find that in New York State over the period 1907-63 there were, on the average, two additional homicides in the month after an execution. Controls for time trends, seasonality, the effects of war, and adjustments for autocorrelation tend to confirm this finding. Such a “brutalizing” effect of executions is consistent with research on violent events such as publicized suicides, mass murders, and assassinations; with previous studies of the long-term effects of the availability and use of capital punishment; and with a small number of investigations of the short-term impact of executions in the days, weeks, and months that follow. This suggests that the message of executions is one of “lethal vengeance” more than deterrence. The resulting sacrifice of human life challenges the constitutionality of capital punishment (source).​
Professor Robert Bohm, in his book Deathquest (2nd edition), cites they also found “roughly three more to the number of homicides in the next nine months of the year after the execution.” In 1994, John Cochran, Mitchell Chamlin, and Mark Seth found:
On September 10, 1990 Charles Troy Coleman was put to death by lethal injection at the Oklahoma State Penitentiary. Coleman’s execution was the first in the state in more than 25 years, generating significant media coverage and providing a unique opportunity to assess the impact of the state's return to executing capital offenders. Interrupted time-series analyses are performed with weekly data from the UCR Supplemental Homicide Reports for the state for the period January 1989 through December 1991. Analyses are performed for the total level of criminal homicides and homicides disaggregated into two types of murder–felony murder and stranger homicides–testing hypotheses that predict opposing impacts for each type of homicide. As predicted, no evidence of a deterrent or a brutalization effect is found for criminal homicides in general. Similarly, the predicted deterrent effect of the execution on the level of felony murders is not observed. Evidence of the predicted brutalization effect on the level of stranger homicides is observed, however. Supplementary analyses on further offense disaggregations continue to support these initial findings and permit a more coherent interpretation of the results (source).​

Most murders are “crimes of passion” between people who know each other, often under the influence of alcohol or drugs, and it’s therefore unsurprising why the death penalty would have no deterrent effect for felony murders, since crimes of passion are not governed by premeditation. But the story is different for murders involving strangers, for which premeditation plays a greater role, and there is a brutalization effect. Robert Bohm writes in his book Deathquest, “One variant of this phenomenon is call the ‘suicide-murder syndrome,’ which is illustrated by the case of Pamela Watkins. Watkins was ‘a babysitter in San Hose who had made several unsuccessful suicide attempts and was frightened to try again. She finally strangled two children so that the state of California would execute her.’ (…) Another variant of this phenomenon has been termed the ‘executioner syndrome.’ Those afflicted with the problem believe their killing performs a public service by eliminating a problem. Still another variant from the pathological desire to die by execution. Finally, what is known about capital murderers, it is likely that some of them kill to gain attention and notoriety that being executed might bring: Their executions provide them a stage that would not be available to them under different circumstances.”

In 1983, a study by Dane Archer, et al. studied the effects of eliminating the death penalty in Austria (1968), Canada (1967), Denmark (1930), England and Wales (1965), Finland (1949), Israel (1954), Italy (1890), Netherland Antilles (1957), Norway (1905), Sweden (1921), and Switzerland (1942). While some countries experienced an increase in murder after abolition, most countries experienced a drop, which is evidence against a deterrent effect.

The first prominent study to find a general deterrent effect was in 1975 by economics professor Isaac Ehrlich, but numerous studies have failed to find the effect, including Peter Passell (1975), William J. Bowers and Glenn L. Pierce (1975), Brian Forst (1977), Scott Decker and Carol Kohfeld (1984, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1990), and Jon Sorensen, et al. (1999). The critique being “if the period of analysis is extended beyond 1965 to include years when executions had dwindled to one or two or had actually ceased, and only if logarithmic values of the variables are used, giving disproportionate weight to these recent years in the regression analysis” only then would there be a deterrent effect (Bowers, 1984). “Some [other] studies do reveal a short-term deterrent effect [after highly publicized executions], but in no case does the decrease in homicides last very long. Moreover, replications and reanalyses of these studies tend to show brutalizing, rather than deterrent, effects of execution publicity” (Bohm).
speed dog:
Fear is what preserves the order of things. If the death penalty was actually handed out for violent crimes as it should, it would definitely be a deterrent. That's common sense.
But common sense is wrong.
Such critics claim that a return to the “good old days” of more frequent and swifter executions would produce deterrence. Evidence from the good old days, however, belies that hope.

During the 1930s for example, there were a total of 1,676 executions in the United States. That represents 167 executions per year, 14 executions per month, and the most executions in a single decade of the twentieth century. The most executions in any single year since 1930, the first year records were kept by the U.S. government, were the 199 recorded in 1935. Furthermore, although data on the celerity for 1951-1960 show that the average time between death sentence and execution was 14.4 months (the range was from 4.6 to 46.1 monthly); the average for 2000 was 137 months. If capital punishment had a deterrent effect, and the frequency and celerity of executions were important, then one might expect a relatively low murder rate for the decade. The evidence shows, though, that homicide rates were higher in the 1930s than in the 1940s, 1950s, and early-to-mid-1960s—decades that had fewer executions. Historical evidence provides no reason to believe that increasing the frequency and celerity of executions would dramatically increase the death penalty’s deterrent effect (Bohm).​

And that, my friends, is a Deep Dish™ serving of deep dish pizza.
 
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Who Dares Win

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The problem with death penalty is that in case of mistake from the judge, there is no possible reparation to the victim.
Many men have been wrongfully executed only to find out years later that they were innocent.

At the same time the problem with death penalty is that in some way encourage crimes to be harsher, imagine a man who raped a woman who knows death penalty awaits him, he would probably kill her too to minimize the chances of getting caught.

At the same time however punishment needs to be quick and sure otherwise criminals dont fear anymore the conseguences of their behaviour and the law abiding citizens feel betrayed from the system turning into anarchics or vigilantes.

What actually allowed the far west to keep some form of civilization was the fact that the bay guys were allowed to be hunt from bounty hunters where the police forces werent enough to cover all territory, and once caught they were led to the big cities to be processed and punished in front of the people.

What liberals now fail to understand (among the many things) is that no matter the condition of a criminal, wheter is poverty or frustration, the final word before acting in a certain way is his and in any condition we all keep some self control.

If people were to become uncontrolloble through heavy stimulation please tell me why no jew in concentration camps tried to overcome the guards?
What more than wrong incarceration and torture can drive someone mad?
I tell you why, he knew that the punishment would have arrived right after with no exception, a modern thief or robber knows really well that its not the case as much as a crew of right thinkers and liberals would find any possible way to help him or make his living in the jails as pleasable as possible.
 

ka_mate

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Deep Dish, you're really get a solid essay going there.

I wouldn't watch the execution nor do I believe the death penalty should be legal. I think if they've committed horrendous crimes sending them to jail for 20-30 years is a much better option than the death penalty.
 

Jariel

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I wouldn't watch it, but I would definitely condone it. I would even be willing to perform the execution.

Putting a man to death, in my opinion, is sometimes necessary for the greater good, but turning it into entertainment cheapens it.
 

SamTheHobit

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"He who hath not sinned cast the first stone."
 

Dedication

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SamTheHobit said:
"He who hath not sinned cast the first stone."
Casts the first stone :trouble:

I don't believe in sin baby :rockon:
 

backseatjuan

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No :down:


It's degridation of society. You asking me to get down on a lover level? Frankly, if there was a public execution tomorrow in my country, I'd pack my bags and leave. :woo:
 
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