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How women turn men into AFC's, and how to stop it

PlayerinTraining

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I've heard women of all sorts complain about their various and contradicting relationship problems, ranging from "He's not sensitive" to "Where are the REAL men."

After much thought, I've come to the conclusion that WOMEN are to blame for their own unhappiness when it comes to relationship with men, but are incapable of accepting responsibility for it.

They cannot even imagine how confused and frustrated most good men are when it comes to women. Yet, if you try to explain it to them, they say "Oh, stop whining and BE A MAN." And women are supposed to be nurturing, as well as good communicators! What bullshyt.

Think of it like this: when you were growing up, who had the most influence on you? When you were a baby, your mother took care of you, since dad (if you were lucky to even see your dad) was too busy busting his butt trying to earn a buck--TO KEEP YOUR MOM HAPPY. You learned that to be a "good boy" was to make your mom happy, both from mom and dad.

Once you went to school, you learned that to be a "good boy" was to make your teacher (most likely a woman) happy.

Of course, being a child, you didn't know enough to question that advice. If you did, you would be so confused, you would be unable to function.

Later on, you become an adolescent, and start to get these weird feelings for females, which confused you even more.

Your entire life up to this point has been defined as "learning how to please a female." To deal with these new desires for relationships with women, you start out using the rational ways to gain their favor--complements, kindness, favors, prove your worth, etc. You basically treat a woman as even better than an equal, although you define it to yourself as "being fair". These seem especially likely to work, since you have been taught to treat people fairly--ie. to follow the golden rule.

You are shocked to find out that not only does the "rational" way of relating to women not work, the very women you are trying to impress think you are a fool for doing it, even though they don't tell you that. You only figure it out when you have went out of your way for some girl, only to find out you have been used and then discarded. You are more confused, frustrated, and depressed than ever.

The problem: Whether you like this or not, it is female desires and wishes that define what the vague concept of "a real man" is. Because this is a widely shared assumption, few even see it.

And because women are fickle (always changing their mind), NO MAN can live up to their expectations for long. When a man fails to receive a woman's approval, he feels like less of a man--worthless. This is the underlying cause of the typical man's fear of rejection.

Think: If you are an unemployed man for an extended period of time, how do you feel? Like "less of a man?" Men, as I've been taught, are supposed to be able to take care of themselves and their families. As a reward, they are attractive to women.

Men without women, or men who have difficulty attracting women are thought of as being "less of a man" (ie. gay). So there is pressure on men to find ANY woman, regardless of her beauty--so even the less than desirable women will be provided for.

Ending the Male fear of Female Rejection
If you are a typical, straight, American man, your desire for female companionship is a given. Yet, you don't really know how to get it, and are probably afraid to try--lest you be ridiculed or scorned for "just looking for sex", as if it is only the WOMAN'S NEEDS that are important.

Look at the facts. The person (woman) by whom you judge your worth, is typically deceptive, manipulative, arbitrary, and selfish. She likely has NO regard for your wellbeing.

Of course, not ALL women are like this. But think--if you saw a woman being attacked by a strange guy, what is your first reaction? Now, if a woman sees you in trouble, what is HER first reaction?

Men (as a group) are more concerned about a woman's welfare (as a group) than their own.

Should you take the opinion of such a morally flawed creature so seriously? Could the shame she is trying to make you feel simply be part of her strategy to confuse and manipulate you, against your best wishes?

Once think about it, and realize its truth, the opinion of a woman will no longer have any power over you.

Bottom line, the only time you should worry about keeping a woman happy is when her behavior has earned your respect.

I'll write more on this later...
 

WestCoaster

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Unfortunately, you're 100 percent correct

Great post playerintraining. And unfortunately, you're right on the money across the board.

I can't disagree with what you've said. We've been taught wrong, trained wrong, heard mixed signals from women (and believed them), had the pressure put on us by women from day 1, busted our butts in our job and never appreciated for it,and now we're in a revolution of complete man-bashing and AFCness in society on TV, radio, print, and in every other segement of American life.

I emphasize American because it's not this way in every country. Read the above post on Swedish women. Scandinavian women are SOOOOOOOOOO much better than American women across the board. Cool, relaxed, fun to be around, non-judgemental, and gorgeous to boot.

I knew a group of Norwegian women who were exchange students in the states. All these women were 8's and above. They showed me photos of their boyfriends in Norway and these guys looked semi-nerdish. I stupidly said so and they looked at me odd and replied, "What are you talking about. He's the nicest guy in the world!"

They're not into bad boys, you don't have to play games, have tricks, stunts or skills. Be a nice guy, have class, flirt a bit, don't lie or use or abuse, and they like you.

In this country if you're not frickin' PERFECT, U.S. women sooner or later will sh-t on you.
 

the_gunslinger

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You're right. I've been away for quite a while (more on that later) but everything you've said rings true.

And why is it true? because society has given women this advantage over men in every area of our lives, be it from custody over children, to the 2 faced lies of feminists.

Although its not the same in every country, as westcoaster pointed out, it is the status quo here in Britain, Eire, the USA, Australia and most of western europe. I look at some of the stunning chinese and japanese girls and their B/fs and i think "what the hell".

Its just the whole way western society has been geared. on one hand, you have the feminists who want to be treaded with respect and want power and all the stuff they already have on one hand, and then they want to be nurtured and treated like princesses on the other.

and westcoaster, fancy a holiday to norway? ;) :D
 

ShortTimer

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I think the biggest fear you have to get over, on the road to a better life is the fear of that "every-woman" who says to you "If you do this I'll never love you."

The biggest fear I think most men have is the fear that women won't love them.
 

donut dunker

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I'll use an analogy.

We've all been taught to be like Cory from Boy Meets World (nice,caring,ETC.) The problem is women dont want that even though they say they do. They want Shawn.
 

Mr. Latte

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I prefer not to take advice from someone who gleams life lessons from Boy Meets World :D
 

Austin Allegro

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Originally posted by the_gunslinger
You're right. I've been away for quite a while (more on that later) but everything you've said rings true.

And why is it true? because society has given women this advantage over men in every area of our lives, be it from custody over children, to the 2 faced lies of feminists.

Although its not the same in every country, as westcoaster pointed out, it is the status quo here in Britain, Eire, the USA, Australia and most of western europe. I look at some of the stunning chinese and japanese girls and their B/fs and i think "what the hell".

Its just the whole way western society has been geared. on one hand, you have the feminists who want to be treaded with respect and want power and all the stuff they already have on one hand, and then they want to be nurtured and treated like princesses on the other.

and westcoaster, fancy a holiday to norway? ;) :D

AYYYMEN JEEEESUS!!!!! PREACH ON, BRUTHA!

And women wonder why men look for Filipino/Russian brides....
 

PlayerinTraining

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Originally posted by the_gunslinger
Its just the whole way western society has been geared. on one hand, you have the feminists who want to be treaded with respect and want power and all the stuff they already have on one hand, and then they want to be nurtured and treated like princesses on the other.
The problems between men have with female demands you mention:

1) They expect men to follow 2 different standards that are inherently contradictory. Equality between men and woman would mean, for example, that women would take responsibility to initiate relationships with a man she was interested in. I have rarely seen a woman take that responsibility, and I don't hold my breath waiting for it.

How many men here have been asked out by a woman AND had that women pay for them on the first date? I've been asked out by women, but NEVER have any of them offered to treat me. But if I ask a woman out, there is a hidden expectation that I SHOULD pay, in order to "BE A MAN."

Clearly the expectations between men and woman are unequal.

2) Men are taught that women are equal to men in intellectual abilities. So when women (as a group) make claims that something is unfair, the need to treat a woman "fairly" on men (as a group), assume the claim has some logic and reason in it, despite the fact there is none.

When women make demands, a man has been trained to see how he can fulfill it.

To be a man=to please a woman.

On the surface, a woman's claims look pretty self-serving. Being that a man sees a woman as an equal, it is inconceivable to him that someone could even expect such a one-sided arrangement that American women see as a birthright.

Therefore, he is in a perpetual state of confusion, and is easily manipulated by the slightest positive reinforcement a woman gives him.

WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN

My goal in writing this stuff is to develop a different mindset that acknowledges the raw deal American men are facing, while avoiding a bitter, angry, and depressed psychological state that is inevitable when you are conditioned to believe what men have been taught to about women. I'll detail more in future posts.

Things to remenber:
1) Women (as a group) are all to often manipulative, deceitful, and fickle.
2) Up until the present time, to "BE A MAN"= to please a woman.
3) This idea that being unable to please a woman reflects poorly on the man is THE SINGLE BIGGEST MISTAKE men make when learning how to deal with women.
4) The entire value system you were taught was designed to make you feel ashamed if you didn't take care of a woman. You have been taught since day one that YOUR needs are secondary to a woman's. BOTH men and women have supported this value system.
5) Women's behavior ONLY makes sense when you understand that they are trying to get as much from a man as possible, while giving as little as possible, in return.
6) Women speak equality, but really expect female choice without responsibility.
7) To take the opinion of such a morally flawed and fickle creature as a woman as THE ONLY value of your worth as a man is the path to insanity and dperession.
8) A woman cannot respect a man who follows all of society's expectations, because deep down, she realizes the expectations are unjust, and anyone who follows them is a chump.
9) To be a success with women, you CANNOT consider them an equal, unitl they have proven it by action. You must look upon their behavior as that of a little child--something to be amused by, but not taken seriously.
10) The fears women have about men harming them are really PROJECTIONS of things they know they can and have done to hurt men.
 

NatureGuy

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This is a good discussion, but I'd have to
disagree with alot of it and I'd add I think
you're analyzing too much.
This comment: "Look at the facts. The person (woman) by whom you judge your worth, is typically deceptive, manipulative, arbitrary, and selfish. She likely has NO regard for your wellbeing. " could only come from someone with a negative attitude about women to start, and probably has never had a good relationship.
What I would say, is that both men and
women are pretty confused about each
other in their teens,twenties, but beyond
that (I would guess about 35) healthy
men and women with good attitudes
finally start to "get it" and treat each other a whole lot better ! Of course,
some people (men and women) never
learn. For the bad experiences I've had, I would say it was because we were both too immature with poor communication between us, or we were simply not compatable.
 

Sting

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PlayerinTraining

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Originally posted by NatureGuy
This is a good discussion, but I'd have to
disagree with alot of it and I'd add I think
you're analyzing too much.
This comment: "Look at the facts. The person (woman) by whom you judge your worth, is typically deceptive, manipulative, arbitrary, and selfish. She likely has NO regard for your wellbeing. " could only come from someone with a negative attitude about women to start, and probably has never had a good relationship.
If only this was correct. I had my first serious relationship when I was 18. I dated the girl until I was 25--that's 7 years, which is longer than many marriages. I almost married her, but I realized she wasn't for me. I cannot say anything negative about the girl, and I know she is a good wife to someone.

If you do a search under my username, you might find some of my older posts, where I detail some of the things I learned from this relationship.

She is a great woman, the total opposite of the typical woman I meet.

I did check out the link posted by Sting. I'd recommend it to anyone. NaturyGuy's post is living proof of how MEN will defend WOMAN against a man who has the courage to state what is clearly obvious to any living, breathing human being, once he (or she, in rare cases) looks at the situation free from prejudice.

Your criticism suggests a guy cannot be "healthy" and have a negative perception of the values of women. Basically, in order to be "normal" a man MUST accept the inherently contradictory female definition of reality.

To be sane, a man must be insane.

The female definition of reality is clear to anyone who watches TV, looks at magazine covers, advertisements, books, etc.
 

WatchMeWalk

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Originally posted by PlayerinTraining

After much thought, I've come to the conclusion that WOMEN are to blame for their own unhappiness when it comes to relationship with men, but are incapable of accepting responsibility for it.
Few things amaze me more than a woman's poor capacity for introspection. Acknowledging any wrongdoing is just too demanding on her fragile self-esteem. From her perspective, it is entirely up to the man to live up to some unrealistic ideal while she can be as flaky and immature as she pleases.
ANything that goes wrong in the relationship is entirely the man's fault.
If a man cheats, than he is a pig. If a woman cheats, then her man was not pleasing her or he was suffocating her. She will spin any situation to portray herself as the helpless victim.
End of rant...
 

WestCoaster

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Women NEVER learn from their mistakes

WatchMeWalk, you are so right on women's incapacity to look inside themselves, it's mind boggling.

I just got out of grad school and dated mostly women pursuing their master's and doctorate degrees. Smart, intelligent, pretty, professional women -- who also made mistake after mistake with men and couldn't believe the mistakes would happen. (Of course I was often the guy left on the outside because I didn't treat them like dirt. Luckily I found this site at the time and was grooming my DJ skills so it didn't rattle my cage that much.)

One gal I dated, now possessing a doctoral degree and a teaching post at a university, goes from one bad apple to another, and just can't believe how she gets sh-t upon by losers. She's also about 9 on the looks meter and wouldn't have to settle if she didn't want to but she's pulled in loser after loser and is left crying time after time. It's amazing.

Another friend, closing in on her master's, dated this 100 percent loser who dissed her, crapped on her, trashed her ... and she couldn't wait to take him back. She finally woke up. Both of these women for the most part are high quality, not beyotches, kind-hearted, intelligent, and very good looking -- and incredibly ignorant when it comes to matters of the heart.

They'd both spend more time buying a new car than selecting a boyfriend.

Frightening.
 

Ronin I

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Re: Re: How women turn men into AFC's, and how to stop it

Originally posted by WatchMeWalk
Few things amaze me more than a woman's poor capacity for introspection. Acknowledging any wrongdoing is just too demanding on her fragile self-esteem. From her perspective, it is entirely up to the man to live up to some unrealistic ideal while she can be as flaky and immature as she pleases.
ANything that goes wrong in the relationship is entirely the man's fault.
If a man cheats, than he is a pig. If a woman cheats, then her man was not pleasing her or he was suffocating her. She will spin any situation to portray herself as the helpless victim.
End of rant...

AMEN.
 

NatureGuy

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PlayerinTraining:

I'm not quite sure what your argument
is with what I said .... seems obvious
to me when someone says

"Look at the facts. The person (woman) by whom you judge your worth, is typically deceptive, manipulative, arbitrary, and selfish. She likely has NO regard for your wellbeing. "


they come from a pretty negative attitude.
And why, to paraphrase, 'she would be the one who judges his worth' is beyond me.
If 'she' is like that, I'd leave pretty fast.
 

E-Z Rider

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I mainly agree with you. I think your post kind of sensationalizes the issue a bit, but basically you are correct.

But, you have to concede that women don't have it easy, either. They spend a lot of their lives trying to please MEN. They try to look a certain way, starve themselves, spend hours at a time putting on makeup, etc, so that they can get the attention of men. "I thought they did that for other *women*, E-Z?" you might ask. Well yes, that is true often, but what are they trying to compete with other women for? I tell you, the attention of men.

You think men's existences are defined by having a woman? Think about women; a woman without a man is looked at strangely by society- she has the same expectations as a man does.

And to boot, she usually has no idea why she is attracted to guys that her mind (and a lot of other people) tell her are losers, and end up dumping her. She doesn't know why she can't "feel it" for the sweet, nice guy who calls her when she feels down and tries to make her feel better.

Don't think that women are really trying to be malicious in all of this- some of them are, sure, but most of them are not conciously aware how manipulative and hurtful they are being to good guys.


**

All that said...you're still right about this: For whatever reasons, society has come to a point where most men have lost respect for themselves when it comes to women. They have come to see her as above themselves. Women are instinctively turned off by this behavior, and so success with a good woman is rare for a lot of good men.

That's what this site is about- becoming a man who feels subordinate to nobody; not his boss, not his parents, his friends, his gf, wife, or anyone. He is modern-day cowboy from a western movie, if you like. (Think of that one song sung by a lady, "Where have all the cowboys gone"...women love that kind of guy). And the old cowboys weren't jerks- they didn't hate women, they respected them, but they were their own man, she could never control him. He could ride off at a moments notice if he wasn't pleased with her. Most importantly, he was a valuable and rare commodity. She felt immensely lucky to be with him.

That's very similar to a Don Juan, when you think about it. No, you don't have to wear leather chaps and smoke marlboro reds, but a Don Juan respects women, but never see her as anything more than an equal, if that. The woman has something to prove to a Don Juan. And he can "ride away" (in his BMW, if not a horse) at a moments notice to the next town (or apartment complex) and find a new woman, if he wants. The burden is on the woman to keep him, not vice versa. And, because there aren't very many Don Juans around, he is a rare and valuable commodity.


So, the most important thing I want to say is that nobody should be feeling depressed about this. If you're reading this thread that means you're on this site, and learning how to BE the Don Juan. Soon, you'll be able to be one of the few men who have turned the tables and bucked the system. You'll be in a position very similar to the one women are generally in...you'll be the chooser. If this thought doesn't make you very happy...something's wrong.

I mean...before this site, you sacrificed things FOR women...your goals, hobbies, self-respect...and never had much success. NOW, you keep all those things and IMPROVE them, and you have SUCCESS with women--it's synergy. Even if the AFC method worked for getting women, you'd still be happier a single Don Juan b/c you'd be happier with YOURSELF.

-E-Z
 
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