Here's one for you to decifer

[Aenigma]

That would be my only explanation for her behavior. She isn't "interested" in me, but wouldn't mind having sex. That's exactly how I see her. Is it possible for a woman to have the same mindset? This brings up an iinteresting point that has not been discussed here, to my knowledge.

You're kidding right? Of course it's possible; where do you think the whole "pool boy" archetype comes from? Why do you think that women in relationships are willing to cheat?

 

[MatureDJ]

I think she see you as a safety net incase she doesn't meet Mr. Right.

I can relate to your situation myself. I am 37 and I hang out with some girls that are 1-3 years older than me. These girls wouldn't have given it much thought 3-5 years ago because they saw me in a different light. Now they are open to showing me interest then they didn't before. Funny how being social and having confidence in yourself will peak someone else attraction switches.

I don't think it's the change in confidence so much as their relative drop in sexual market value (which is what you basically mentioned in the first paragraph.) They are seeing men desire their younger sisters, and realize that they must dial back their expectations if they are to succeed. Of course, their bio clock ticking probably has something to do with it as well.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Alright STR8UP, I know you personally so I'll give you my take on this. I know you don't have ONEitis with this one or any of the many others I know you've been with, so I don't think this is even relevant here.

However, lets pick this apart for the sake of eduacting the good brothers of the Mature Men forum shall we?

we started talking about something, which led to her saying "I'm shy". To which I replied "Uh yea, you're shy alright. You're about the LEAST shy person I know"

This is simply a classic, covert disclaimer that millions of women will use just prior to resorting to an overt communication. This disclaimer is meant to throw off the impact of what her real message is - she wants to ƒuck you. Even you know this as a 'no-brainer.' She can't overtly say "STR8, I really want to ƒuck you" (at least not sober), so, like most women she has to couch the message in a disclaimer before she gives you the overt message which is:

" If I weren't shy, we would have had sex a long time ago".

Overt Translation: "I don't want to come off as easy or a slut, which I'm afraid you may have been thinking as I was grabbing your c0ck while we were grind/dancing the other night, so I'll presume the role of being "shy" (laughable, I know, since we were dry-humping on the dance floor) in a lame effort to save some sense of feigned prudence - even though I'm 37 and it's long past biological clutch time for me - but after 8 years of flirtation, and as I'm running out of options, I think I'd like to really ƒuck you now."

As was noted prior, I'm always of the opinion it's her actions that speak volumes (i.e. the grinding incident), but it's interesting to contrast a woman's actions with her words. When you do this in the right manner (not being drawn into her words) it will teach a man how women communicate. It's always a woman's behavior that belies her intent to be sure, but, and maybe this is just me, it's fascinating to see their attempts at subterfuge and rationalization as they apply to her behaviors. If you can remove your personal interests from a situation and cooly interpret why she says one theing and then does another, you'll start to notice a method to the madness. Men get comfortable in thinking that women are insane, irrational, random and capricious, when in fact they are precisely calculating even when they are (un)subconscious of being so.

Long story short, she wants to bang you STR8. You know it, she knows it, and she's come to that point of feminine exasperation where she feels the need to more overtly tell you so since she perceives the covert messages aren't registering after she gave you every IOI and AI in her repertoir that said "I want to ƒuck you now" the last time you were "dancing." In fact she's so ready to ƒuck you that she's conceptualizing ways to appologize ("I'm shy") for not having done so sooner. So the initiative is yours now STR8. You can capitalize (if you think it's worth doing so) or you can pass - which you may also want to do, since the history you share with this one makes me think she may become clingy and exclusive after you do bang her. It's really up to you.

 

[KarmaSutra]

Because some guys don't have the mental constitution to process and appreciate the information and experience you bring here is no reason to leave. You're more powerful than that. I follow your posts religiously because you do have my adoration and appreciation and I internalize what you know.

Don't let the few fvck up the lessons you can provide for the rest of us brothers.

 

[STR8UP]

You know, I thought about this last night, and I really don't want to stop posting.

I am, however, going to refrain from bringing up my personal life, as others seem to see it as an attempt for attention or validation or something.

I'm sure some people think I'm flat out full of sh!t when I say I was fingering some dudes girlfriend and sucking on her t!tties with him three feet away. Hor this, hor that, that word isn't even in my vocabulary. They are ALL hors as far as I'm concerned, some are just better at hiding it than others. I have a feeling that a lot of what I experience has to do with the fact that I DON'T JUDGE WOMEN. I get to see their TRUE nature. That's why the second time I fukk a chick she's asking me to bring my camera into the bedroom and take pictures of her spreading her pu$$y, and telling me she wants me to think about her when I touch myself later. Or another girl I know confiding in me that she recently started as a phone sex operator part time. Know what her full time gig is? She works for a FUNERAL HOME. Guys your female friends and your girlfriends aren't the innocent creatures you think they are. It's all a front. Even the most devout christian woman wants to be fukked like a porn star, that's just how it is folks. Whether or not she acts on it, that's a different story, but usually all it takes is the right guy to flip the right switch, as Rollo would put it.

So I'm gonna start putting a little less time into posting and I'm gonna lay off the play by play posts about my life amongst "hors".

I appreciate all the kind words fellas. You guys really are the best.

 

[Sinistar]

Str8up,

I too hope you stick around. You have great insights regarding the DJ way.

My response was based on a 30,000ft perspective. Basically, that you have posted about this woman on more than one occassion over a obvious timescale (ie months). Obviously you see her as a friend. Yet, the term *friend* sort of isn't applicable when thoughts of intimacy are mixed in. So, that's what lead me to call out 1-itis.

Your posts give very good insight regarding a guy who chooses to spend some of his free time with female acquaintences / friends rather than exclusively with guy friends. I will admit, these types of interactions are almost always amusing and you can learn things.

I sounds like you have settled into a happy medium. I know w/r to myself that each and every time I selected to spend free time with women under the guise of being friends / hanging out (where the thought of intimacy had not been 100% resolved) that my true underlying goal was intimacy. The very typical / obvious friendship buffer based on a fear of being rejected.

And unfortuntely, the most emotionally stressfull and difficult situation I ever went through was that of becoming intimate with a female *friend* after many many months of being cautious and nice and polite. It was doomed from the git-go. I was a man and I should have initiated immediately. But I didn't. The relationship was akward at best. And in the end, I have not seen or heard from this *friend* in years. I survived. I'm sure she did too. Gotta move forward with life.

If she is truly a *friend* then put the thoughts of intimacy behind you and be her friend. That means accepting anything she does - even if it included watching another guy taking her home. If you are in that state, why bother with getting in her drawers. On the other hand, if you find yourself wanting to bang her - then that is desire. You are a MAN. She has told you ever way possible. Then why not just do it?

One more thing. Now when I'm older it's hard for me to sit with a group of women for more than about 30min. Their conversations jump around following a subtext that I can now easily observe but is basically a waste of time trying to follow. It's as if you are watching them talk via feelings. So when I find myself in these situations, I just mess with them, lay on some C&F and I usually throw in one anti-feminism jab and then bow out as I know they'll spend hours all riled up over it (all the while moving their emotional roller coaster up and down like they like so much).

After 40yrs, it's not my belief that men and women can truly be friends unless intimacy/desire is completely resolved (taking that from Rollo's early posts). I basing that on a lot of observation and a lot of firsthand knowledge. I also find time spent with good male friends (ie buddies) is much more rewarding than the same amount of time spent with women. I suspect this belief holds true from some guys and not for others. I will say that my SS unplugging has only re-inforced this view.

Re: H0rs. You are absolutley right. Every single woman out there has the potential to be a incredibly s3xual creature. I honestly believe (with a few exceptions) that women would rule the game of seduction if only they were not judged and made to feel crappy afterwards. 20yrs ago I would have argued with you. Today, it's actually fun to interact and read their behaviors and mannerisms to figure out which ones are more than they seem. They are everywhere. A DJ in this world, is an unstoppable force because he is aware.

 

[thissucks003]

I am, however, going to refrain from bringing up my personal life, as others seem to see it as an attempt for attention or validation or something.

So I'm gonna start putting a little less time into posting and I'm gonna lay off the play by play posts about my life amongst "hors".

Hey Str8up,

I hope this is not the case. I like your posts. Your posts are very honest about how you feel and gives the me a clear description on the situation that helps me when I encounter similiar situations myself. Now I may not have as wild of a social life as you, but I am working on it. I like the fact that you built a cool social circle of like minded people. I myself would like to expand on building my social circle. How did you build your social cirlce with so many young women? If you ever have the time to post something on that, I and many others that are older would be more than grateful.

In regards to those that are complaining and biitching about your posts, screeew them. They are only complaining because they have no social life, otherwise they wouldn't give two shiitts about your threads. They would be living it and not complaining about it.

 

[STR8UP]

This is simply a classic, covert disclaimer that millions of women will use just prior to resorting to an overt communication. This disclaimer is meant to throw off the impact of what her real message is - she wants to ƒuck you. Even you know this as a 'no-brainer.'

The funny thing is I have always taken her to be the type that would initiate something if that's what she wanted. I mean, this girl gives a new meaning to the word "outgoing".

I find your theories on covert communication very interesting. A man who can master the language of women truly has the advantage. What is she saying when she says something off the wall? What is she saying when she throws you a look and says absolutely nothing? fascinating stuff.

She can't overtly say "STR8, I really want to ƒuck you" (at least not sober), so, like most women she has to couch the message in a disclaimer before she gives you the overt message

I know I've been talking about the possibility of having sex with this particular woman for awhile now, so in keeping with my vow to lay off the daily hor report, I'm gonna end it with this post, unless something groundbreaking happens.

But in the meantime.....

I'm amazed at just how close she gets to resorting to overt communication. Lately, every single time I'm around her she makes at least one sexual reference about us.

But here's the kicker.

There has only been one time where I was actually in a prime position to throw down with her. She's ALWAYS cutting out early no matter what we are doing.

I was at her house one night and we were drinking a little, and she practically begged me to stay over. She started talking about getting the couch ready for me, but I told her no way, I wouldn't get any sleep, so I might as well go home.

Long story short, she invites me into her bedroom, and I was laying in the bed while she was performing her bedtime chick rituals. I got up and headed to the bathroom, and on my way there I bumped into her heading into the bedroom.

It was one of those moments when we ended up real close, with her looking up into my eyes, expecting a kiss. That was still back when I had sworn off putting any effort into sexing her, so I passed it up. I know, I know, don't say it.

Lately she has escalated things and it's caused me to re-evaluate my stance. If she's basically laying it out in front of me, what's it to me to break through a little token resistance? Why not, what do I have to lose?

Once I decided to "go with it" she's continued to escalate things, as evidence by this post, and her wandering hands a few weeks ago at the club, and the phone convo of her wanting to be involved with me and my "crazy female friends" at the party (which I know is another attempt at covert communication...she doesn't really mean THAT).

The problem now is that she will throw the sex talk out there or whatever, then disappear. Like at the club. Probably 30 minutes after she grabbed my package she grabs her friends and says "Ok I'm tired, lets go". It was still early and I was having a good time with my other friends so I wasn't leaving.

So now it's just a matter of timing. I'm still not going to go out of my way to make anything happen. It just isn't that important to me. Perhaps I might have to push it in the right direction if need be.

Incidentally, the other night when she told me she was "shy", she brought up the fact that she grabbed me in the club. That whole convo was sexually charged.

All I can say is that when it DOES happen, with 8 years of sexual tension built up she's gonna get the fukk of her life

It's always a woman's behavior that belies her intent to be sure, but, and maybe this is just me, it's fascinating to see their attempts at subterfuge and rationalization as they apply to her behaviors. If you can remove your personal interests from a situation and cooly interpret why she says one theing and then does another, you'll start to notice a method to the madness. Men get comfortable in thinking that women are insane, irrational, random and capricious, when in fact they are precisely calculating even when they are (un)subconscious of being so.

That's what I'm talking about.

This chick is like a walking case study. that's why I bring it up so much.

You can capitalize (if you think it's worth doing so) or you can pass - which you may also want to do, since the history you share with this one makes me think she may become clingy and exclusive after you do bang her. It's really up to you.

I was kind of worried about that too, but after spending some time with her lately I think she just needs a little validation and she isn't necessarily interested in me for a relationship. I'd say a booty call every now and then would keep her happy :rock:

 

[STR8UP]

I sounds like you have settled into a happy medium. I know w/r to myself that each and every time I selected to spend free time with women under the guise of being friends / hanging out (where the thought of intimacy had not been 100% resolved) that my true underlying goal was intimacy.

I would be lying if I said that intimacy wasn't on my mind when it comes to dealing with my female friends, but it's intimacy with friends of my female friends, not with the friends themselves. The fact that I'm not in the friend zone with the "friends" just adds to the spice amping up the attraction of other women.

If she is truly a *friend* then put the thoughts of intimacy behind you and be her friend. That means accepting anything she does - even if it included watching another guy taking her home. If you are in that state, why bother with getting in her drawers. On the other hand, if you find yourself wanting to bang her - then that is desire. You are a MAN. She has told you ever way possible. Then why not just do it?

That's my thing. It's not a black and white issue with me. I can be comfortable somewhere in between, living with the fact that there are unresolved intimacy issues.

If this chick goes off with another guy i could care less. If anything it's her getting catty when I bring another woman around.

That's the only position to be in with these female "quasi friends" You have to be in the middle or on the other side of the fence, cause if you get jealous of her you are on the wrong side of the transaction.

Being on the RIGHT side of it can pay dividends.

This particular chick has given me social proof with several other women. My last LTR even commented on it when we were out one night and bumped into the 37 yr old. The g/f later told me that the friend was looking her up and down like "Who the fukk are YOU?". And I hadn't even seen the friend for six months prior to that.

One more thing. Now when I'm older it's hard for me to sit with a group of women for more than about 30min. Their conversations jump around following a subtext that I can now easily observe but is basically a waste of time trying to follow.

That's why I posted about wanting to blow my brains out rather than sitting amongst a group of women without other men or outside stimulus (like being in a club) around me.

I don't sit around and blab with groups of women! That sh!t SUCKS.

 

[STR8UP]

I like the fact that you built a cool social circle of like minded people. I myself would like to expand on building my social circle. How did you build your social cirlce with so many young women? If you ever have the time to post something on that, I and many others that are older would be more than grateful.

There really isn't a secret to this that I can post.

I attribute it somewhat to my business. More specifically, one of my buddies I met through my business.

But the two biggest things that helped me to build this social network are......get this.....this same buddy of mine's g/f AND his ex g/f.

My buddy's girl likes me (some think a little too much) and introduces me to a LOT of women. She's a 24 yr old hairdresser with a lot of HOT friends.

My buddy's ex g/f....same situation. Lots of hot young girlfriends she brings around regularly.

I guess it comes down to meeting the right people. If you meet that one person you get lucky and everything falls into place.

This guy has a mini mansion with a wine cellar, game room, pool, jacuzzi, dock on a lake, you name it. He's having a halloween party in a couple of weeks, and needless to say since he is the "hub" of my social network things have the potential to get VERY interesting, as pretty much ALL of these women are going to be there, including the 37 yr old who i invited the other day.

I hope that wasn't a mistake.....

 

[STR8UP]

I don't post alot,

Maybe you should!

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I was at her house one night and we were drinking a little, and she practically begged me to stay over. She started talking about getting the couch ready for me, but I told her no way, I wouldn't get any sleep, so I might as well go home.

NEXT!

STR8, what're you doing with this one? That's the behavior you need to interpret; this IS the message. Are you the ƒucken PRIZE or are you the "sleep-over" girlfriend? Did you spoon her in her bed that night? I'd have walked out the minute she started getting the couch ready for me.

She's playing you, I can see that now. What 37 y.o. woman plays sh!t like this? One that's running low on men to pay attention to her as her market value wanes. STR8, seriously, NEXT this woman-child. After this display - and your willingness to go along with it - the message isn't "ƒuck me STR8" it's "pay attention to me STR8 and maybe I'll bang you."

The amount of time you've put into just thinking and analyzing this girl would've been far better spent with one of the younger plates I know you're spinning. You say you've resigned yourself to not putting any effort into sexing her, but if that were true you wouldn't have started this thread in the first place. Just posting about her IS effort in sexing her. At 37, and playing adolscent games like having 'sleep-overs' and bailing out early with her friends, I can tell you now, even if you did ƒuck her, it wouldn't be worth the effort. You said you've known her for 8 years or so? Essentially that's how long she's made you wait for sex, but in the meantime, that's also how long you've paid attention to her. It's time to be indifferent. I'm not saying you have ONEitis with her, but you have been playing her game for a while now.

Go bang one of your 20 something hotties in the hot tub again, it'll be time well spent in light of all this crap.

 

[Bonhomme]

... or ... to put it in much simpler terms, "anti-slut" talk.

 

[JustDoItAlways]

You started the post by saying she is a 37 year old AW. Everyhing else you posted is consistent with that frame.

She has been playing this game since she was 14 so she is good at it.

That doesn't mean she won't give it up if you want to. You just have to play the AW-game right and remember that after the encounter she will immediately go back into her AW frame.

Rinse-repeat the AW game once a month or every couple of weeks and don't let your emotions get involved.

 

[STR8UP]

NEXT!

STR8, what're you doing with this one? That's the behavior you need to interpret; this IS the message. Are you the ƒucken PRIZE or are you the "sleep-over" girlfriend? Did you spoon her in her bed that night? I'd have walked out the minute she started getting the couch ready for me.

I can see where you get this from, but regardless of HER motives I was there to sleep. Had a few drinks and if I'm downtown I walk home, but I was in Winter Park so that wasn't an option. Usually I have issues sleeping anywhere other than my own bed (hence, me going home) but she's got a california king or whatever that monster thing is so I spread out on my side and she stayed on hers.

She's playing you, I can see that now. What 37 y.o. woman plays sh!t like this? One that's running low on men to pay attention to her as her market value wanes. STR8, seriously, NEXT this woman-child. After this display - and your willingness to go along with it - the message isn't "ƒuck me STR8" it's "pay attention to me STR8 and maybe I'll bang you."

There is absolutely NO doubt in my mind that she seeks attention. That's why I refer to her as an AW. That's why I told myself i would never pursue a relationship with her, sexual or otherwise.

It wasn't until recently that things started to escalate that made me think twice about where I stand.

I think what started it is one night she was leaving my place, we kissed, you know, peck on the lips kind of thing, and I went back for a little more just for the hell of it.

From that point on we were a little more touchy feely, more kissing, etc.

It was at that point (you know, the point I got a hard-on) that I said "WAIT A MINUTE! I'm either gonna have to fukk her or something here."

Up until there was physical contact there wasn't any issue.

A little innocent flirting, a peck on the lips, ok, that doesn't get the motor running. But when she escalates things by grabbing my package and making constant references to us having sex.....that's another story.

I have ZERO emotional investment here, that's the good thing.

What's gonna have to happen is I AM going to try to fukk her. If the result is anything but SCORE!, then I WALK AWAY, just as I would any other woman who wastes my time. I can tolerate some things from women and people in general, but once she crossed that line (grabbing my c0ck, blatant sex talk) it's time to put up or shut up.

I could imagine if I did have to walk away from her. She wouldn't be able to handle it. Lets hope it doesn't come to that cause I like hanging out with her from time to time.

The amount of time you've put into just thinking and analyzing this girl would've been far better spent with one of the younger plates I know you're spinning. You say you've resigned yourself to not putting any effort into sexing her, but if that were true you wouldn't have started this thread in the first place.

Lately I changed my stance, as I said. Now it's gonna be a matter of her giving up the pu$$y, or we don't hang out anymore. No big deal to me. I won't put up with a woman who is a blatant c0ck tease, using me solely for attention.

That said, my "analyzing" this girl is just part of my inquisitive nature when it comes to women. I learn a lot from interacting with all kinds of women, even the ones I'm not sexing.

And the plate deal......I have no plates. They are packed away in boxes. I don't have time. Seriously. I am managing more than a dozen condos, trying to rent out five of them, running a business by myself when i normally have a business partner taking on half the load....I sometimes don't get home until 10pm and the last thing on my mind is spinning plates. My little free time I spend with my existing friends or my family. After that there's none left, unfortunately.

Essentially that's how long she's made you wait for sex, but in the meantime, that's also how long you've paid attention to her. It's time to be indifferent. I'm not saying you have ONEitis with her, but you have been playing her game for a while now.

I suppose this is true to a point, but like I said, up until recently it was "innocent". I didn't go home with a hard d!ck cause she was turning up the heat.

If it is all a "game" of attention and validation, then she's in for a rude awakening!

 

[STR8UP]

You started the post by saying she is a 37 year old AW. Everyhing else you posted is consistent with that frame.

She has been playing this game since she was 14 so she is good at it.

That doesn't mean she won't give it up if you want to. You just have to play the AW-game right and remember that after the encounter she will immediately go back into her AW frame.

Rinse-repeat the AW game once a month or every couple of weeks and don't let your emotions get involved.

I'm not really into playing games, but if it's forced upon me I will play back to get resolution, which is where I stand now.

And as for emotions....I would be disappointed if this caused our friendship to end, but I'm quite used to losing friends by now I can assure you.

Emotions with this chick....no way.

 

[Bible_Belt]

There is absolutely NO doubt in my mind that she seeks attention.

Come on, dude, they all do. This is like her disqualifying you because you seek sex.

 

[STR8UP]

Come on, dude, they all do. This is like her disqualifying you because you seek sex.

Of course, of course. But there is a difference between a normal female who seeks attention, and an AW. This one definitely leans toward the AW camp.

 

[STR8UP]

That being said, ditch the AW, she's taking up too much of your time evidently.

Not really.

I call her or she calls me once every week or two. We probably get together for an hour or two once every two or three weeks.

I'm gonna be MAD busy the next couple of weeks, so I probably won't even talk to her until the party in a couple of weeks.

I'm kind of thinking I shouldn't have invited her. It's literally going to be a smorgasboard of pu$$y, all dressed in their "slutty" little costumes. Naughty cop, librarian, nurse, or teacher, anyone?

I'm looking forward to this....

 

[ketostix]

I'll tell you what I think. I think whenever you get in another situation like the time you were alone together and slept in her bed, you could escalate, start kissing her and I bet you she'll get turned on and snap into a sexual freak lol. Well I think she'll fvck you anyway.

I also get a lot from reading your posts Str8up.

I think this party is going to be interesting if she shows up. You got to post on the informative and juicy details.