HB with abusive childhood

[dante25]

My buddy who's a psychiatrist says stay away. As most guys that have experienced this will tell you, they never really get over it. Ultimately she will displace her feelings of her father onto you and that is a terrible spot to be in.

 

[backbreaker]

i just refuse to autotoss a girl over some **** she had no control over. you are equating having a dad that drinks too much and gets abusive, with, having 3 kids before you are 25 lol. it's not one in the same. one the woman did, the other she had no control over.


no necessarily saying save her, but, the single mom shows stupidity and ignorance. the second, i just need to see if she has readjusted to life. some do some don't.

 

[runner83]

i just refuse to autotoss a girl over some **** she had no control over. you are equating having a dad that drinks too much and gets abusive, with, having 3 kids before you are 25 lol. it's not one in the same. one the woman did, the other she had no control over.


no necessarily saying save her, but, the single mom shows stupidity and ignorance. the second, i just need to see if she has readjusted to life. some do some don't.

Autotoss? I like that. Think I'll add it to my vocab dictionary.

My opinion, unless she has got some professional help to get over it, chances are it will cause issues later.

But if you give her a chance, but make sure you don't get too emotionally involved at first, what could be the harm?

If she turns out to be a nutcase, dump her and move on.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

I think you´re over generalizing. Just take it slow and watch her for red flags, then you can decide...
I´m going to quote Doc love here:

To you psych majors, you can’t trust any woman until after six months -- and only then if there are no red flags. A woman has to earn your trust. You can’t toss trust out like a used tissue. A woman who says she loves you after four dates has a screw loose.

No. In fact, a chic who tells you about it is a big red flag.

I dated a chic who told me she was abused after about a month of dating. She was great in the sack, open to doing any and everything. But the paranoia, the baseless accusations and crazy mood swings wasn't worth it. She would try to play the victim role all the time to control me. That's why its a red flag. I don't know if she was really abused or not, but I do know it was a club and by telling me about it, she told me she was going to use that club. And when I refuse to sit there and get clubbed and dropped her, she accused me of being abusive and saying that I abandon people and I'm heartless. After a month she tried to come back, but I just didn't want to be bothered as I had moved on.

The problem is not the father abusing her, it is her actions. Some people may overcome abuse, others won´t. You never know!!
An "abused" person may be: a doormat, a person who will take no sh!t or will be abusive herself. Only by interacting and observing her you will know for sure...

 

[backbreaker]

it' just like, what...3 years ago when I first started taking my now fiancee seriouslyi, she came over my house one day chilling, I go to the bathroom and a baggie had fell on the floor.. it might have been 40-50 dollars worth of coke. lol, good coke too (i had to do the tounge taste before I confronted her). I was told by everyone here to get rid of her.

Forutnately, I used some common sense in the matter. I knew she wasn't high (i can tell). Secondly, the fact that she actually had some left lol, I knew she wasn't an addict or anything (i'm not freaking carrying around 50 dollars wroth of coke, I'm going to kill that). So I confronted her, told her my history, and told her look I don't look down on you or anything for using but, this is not going to happen around me because I can't relapse. She told me it was something she did with friends from time to time, nothing serious at all, she had bought some and didn't use it all and just put it up for future use with friends. I told her that's cool but if I catch it again you are gone. I even randomly tested her like 5 times over the next 6 months. She didn't particularly care for it but I don't **** around with my sobriety.


There are alot of posts here, about talking about how girls who are way too unrelaistic with their wants.. you see the same here. Some of you just aren't being reliastic. girl has to have two parents, they have to be perfect parents, have to have a woman who had sex more than 2 times but less than 5 times in her life lol before meeting you, she can't stay on facebook all day long, she can't have too many guy friends, can't have a child, can't be divorced, come on man lol

Lesson Nine

Oh, how he wanted success with women! Why did others do so well and he so poorly? All jocks did was breathe and grunt to get chicks, and he did everything possible with no success. Alas, the pangs of desprised love! She was beautiful, wonderful, but only wanted him as a friend. In fact, every girl he held desirous thoughts about thought of him as only a friend or less.

It was time for change! Information was the key, he knew. He devoured books, articles, anything at all about the nature of women and creating romantic success.

Then he met a Spanish guy named Manual.

Manual said, “Behold, for here is your battleplan:

Psychological Maneuvers! You shall learn Neuro-linguistic programming! Now speak like this: “When you HAVE THAT CONNECTION with someone, that WARM, SAFE, and COMFORTABLE feeling RIGHT THERE, then what sometimes can happen is…” With Manual, women became a sum of psychological instruments to be played to his tune.

“Guides! You shall learn and memorize the booklets of Societal Situations with Women.” Now he knew to do this when she did that, to do that when she did this, on and so on. Following Manual’s guides, he met a consistent success.

“Ceaseless Information! You shall never have too much information,” commanded Manual. Thus, countless articles, countless posts streamed underneath the young man’s eyes. At the end of the day he was still in front of the computer.

“I love you, Manual!” the young man cried. Any problems, any situations, Manual would always have an answer. He would consult with Manual day and night, memorize Manual’s teachings, and worship Manual.

But, oh oh. Something was not going right. He had burned the mantra in his mind, “Thou shall never stay on the phone longer than twenty minutes,” only to break it… with a startling success! Also ingrained was the mantra, “Thou shall never compromise,” and lo and behold! When he broke this rule, he usually crashed and burned. But this time he achieved high flying success. Soon, the rules that had so framed his courtly actions disintegrated.

“Ahh,” he realized. “These guides and rules were a clutch for my lack of confidence. They do, however, work but are overall limited.” Then he smiled. “The rules and guides are the training wheels, the helper out of the nest.”

No more shall he be completely dictated by that Spanish guy named Manual! He could now fly and soar on his own. So…

Be not contained by formula.

“If the rules and guides were successful, why would he abandon them?”

“Because he realized he was successful not by the rules and guides, but by the approaching and fun mindset the rules and guides demanded.”

The young man, as ever, was confused. So Pook, with his seemingly endless magic abilities, summoned up two men.

“One of these,” said Pook, “is an actor.” And the three watched the actor become Hercules, Henry V, Hamlet, and every hero with a capital H. But in person, this actor transformed into a wimp.

“What happened to the hero!?” wondered the young man.

Then they saw the other man in action.

“He is heroic!” marveled the young man.

“Indeed,” said the Pook. “One is naturally confident, the other is scripted.”

“But what is wrong with the scripted?”

“Nothing! But it is critical to realize the purpose of scripts and guides.”

“Which is what?”

Pook then took the young man to a place that overlooked two crowds of men. One group kept rushing back and forth to the man on the center pedestal, the Spanish guy named Manual. The other group consulted Manual only here and there, but traveled off in blazing new and fresh paths.

“What is the point?”

“It is simple,” Pook declared. “The point of Manual is not to grant you success. If you do, you will forever be under his dictatorship. The entire reason why Manual exists is to not grant you success but illustrate the means of success.”

“Meaning…?”

“Meaning that a few people became successful and formed Manual out from the clay of their knowledge. Manual is their automaton, their robot, to consistently answer newbies’ questions. The end goal in seduction, in success, is to make it natural. When it becomes natural, you have no need for Manual and can handle anything women throw at you.”

“Argh!” the young man pulled his hair. “I used to think women were nice and charming, that only bad boys were the problem! This knowledge is shattering every ideal I held about women.”

Pook nodded. “These are but a few of the Harsh Truths:

Women would rather share a successful man than be attached to a faithful loser.

Many women do not marry for love.

Most divorces end up with the guy cherishing the woman but the woman detesting the man.

Even for long-term marriage, the Don Juan is the way to go.

The ‘innocent, nice girl’ is often the horniest and likely uninnocent.

Many women consider your looks, your career, what you can offer them, before your integrity and character.

Women are more sexual than men can even dream.

Women are not attracted to genius, only strength and imagination

Woman’s sole mission is union, either for pleasure or the fruits of children. She cares nothing for your philosophy and all except to either use it to catch interest in a guy or to enthrone herself.

Women, in sex, desire to be treated as an object and relish it.

Women place value in societal links; how they are thought of. You become her ego.

My only real No brainers are

1. no addictions because I'm an addict.
2. no huge debt, unless she is either 1. a (good) lawyer or 2. a (good) doctor, or in general, has used the money to futher herlf in life. I'm not just playing around. anything oer 10k in debt i'm usually out. And when i found out how much cebt my finacee was in, i almost left. she had about 15k worth of debt after i talked to her and this was after i saw the way she lived, she is pretty fugual, she had just bought into the, start8up, type of attitude that debt is good so she never bothered to get rid of it. she's debt free now lol. I knew she was serious about getting married, after me saying, very casually I could not marry someone that has a lot of debt, when she showed me she had paid off all her debt lol. I knew **** had gotten real then.

 

[sodbuster]

So, does she get mad and blame all men[had one who did,told her she couldn't blame me for her brothers sexing her],mad all the time... etc. let her get help from a professional... not you

 

[bmp2cpm]

Having an abusive childhood by her father and having BPD are 2 completely unrelated things. Yes, a person could have both, but one doesn't cause the other.

That being said she's probably going to go into relationships with men that will abuse her. It's familiar. It's how she knows to do relationships. So, unless you can be abusive to her, she'll dump you pretty quickly for someone that can.

 

[powpow]

there is no future in this. man I hate to say it, but this girl is just damaged goods. its unfortunate.

but really, you gotta think about your own future first. you dont have to rescue anyone. and its not just your future. its your future childrens future. and theyre childrens future. this kind of psychological trauma absolutely resurfaces and it scars people FOREVER.

 

[Colossus]

There are alot of posts here, about talking about how girls who are way too unrelaistic with their wants.. you see the same here. Some of you just aren't being reliastic. girl has to have two parents, they have to be perfect parents, have to have a woman who had sex more than 2 times but less than 5 times in her life lol before meeting you, she can't stay on facebook all day long, she can't have too many guy friends, can't have a child, can't be divorced, come on man lol

I agree man. If you next girls at the first sign of any little red flag you will be one lonely-as$ dude. Something I realized a while ago is that EVERY girl you date has something that could be considered a red flag. Well, if you're around 30 or older you have to get fvcking real. Everyone at this age has been in LTR's (often marriage), slept with a fair number of people and done things they arent proud of. Look in the mirror first.

There some things that are no-brainers like chicks with kids from multiple fathers, huge amounts of debt, addictions, personality disorders, etc....but everything else is really at your discretion. How many people in this world still have perfectly intact families with no divorce? Not many. And that in itself is no guarantee of 'quality' anyway.

 

[powpow]

Im suprised that abuseful childhood did not make it into your list of no-brainers...

 

[Tazman]

I have a sister who was abused as a child by our biological father. She had a lot of potenial growing up, smart, outspoken, graduated early, etc. However, over the years she seemed to simply give up and engage in destructive behaviors that made her a difficult person to be around. This included stealing, drugs, so on and so forth.

She behaves like she's bipolar, but I think she uses the abuse as a crutch that should excuse her actions from being judged because she was violated/tramatized. It's like the ace up her sleeve, although she doesn't talk about it at all. I had one conversation with her about it and she said it ruined her life.

I disagree. I think after all these years she at some point needs to become totally responsible for her actions as an adult, mother, etc. I do feel really bad about what happened, but I could never live with or have a relationship with someone like this. I had nothing to do with the act so I don't deserve to be on the receiving end of her resentment.

I think it's even worse if you're with a girl who's open about it with you. She fully intends on using it out in the open to manipulate you. You will not help or change the minds of people like this. I would definitely move on.

 

[Colossus]

Im suprised that abuseful childhood did not make it into your list of no-brainers...

Well it is but often you dont find out about this till MUCH later. The others were more up-front obvious stuff.

 

[VictorK]

i do think it is a red flag, however only you can see this girl and tell if she has truely gotten past it. I would also research signs of BPD that you can look for clues in the interaction you have with this woman. Has she gone to councelling? I am in a situation right now where my g/f was heavily influenced by her father and that experience is impacting us. Approach with caution

 

[st_99]

I also agree about getting paranoid about every perceived little red flag. Thats just dumb.

BUT, I truly believe that there is a subset of women that are IMPOSSIBLE to have any meaningful relationship with regardless of who you are, your game, your looks, or your money.

These are the ones you need to recognize and yes it usually starts with the f*cked up daddy situation.

 

[jophil28]

BUT, I truly believe that there is a subset of women that are IMPOSSIBLE to have any meaningful relationship with regardless of who you are, your game, your looks, or your money.

These are the ones you need to recognize and yes it usually starts with the f*cked up daddy situation.

This is true ^

IF you listen to a woman's history she will slowly , often incrementally, reveal her past.
Some women will eagerly puke it all out as a torrid display of drama and abuse. Others will feed us small details to test our reaction.
However I have found that all women will eventually reveal their past. By doing so she revels in the brief stardom of her own soap opera...her 15 minutes of fame..and she will always do so within a context of victimhood.

Her history is a report of her life to date ...and possibly your future should you 'couple' with her..
And so what do we do when we encounter such a woman.
Is she automatically disqualified as a contender for an LTR?
Perhaps she needs to be held as arm's length and defined as FWB at best.
Frankly I just have no firm and clear answer , but what I do know from what I have seen is that women who have had abusive parents rarely live successful lives.

MY first real LTR was a local beauty queen. A stunning 17 yer old girl from German parents who were transplants and work fiends in a new land.
My g/f and I toyed with our relationship (or I did ) for 6 years and she followed me across 3 states while I "explored" in my early twenties.
We broke up and she moved back to her home town and married a 'nice guy' . They built a good retail business for ten years . He was enviou of her boundless sparking energy and jealous of the attention that she endlessly absorbed from other men, and he eventually cheated. They eventually divorced and a year later he hanged himself.
I met up with her a year or so later when she tracked me down and we had a hot, but brief, fling (at her instigation) until I foolishly admitted that I still had feelings for her. She immediately LJBF'ed me and we lost contact for a few years.
During our fling she revealed that she, as a teen, had been molested and harrassed sexually by her father. He tried to convince her that many ancient cultures allowed for incest. She claimed that she always resisted , but does it matter that she did not participate? What effect does it have on a teenage girl to have a sexual predator for a father?
Anyway, I reconnected with her in 2005 and she had gained a lot of weight.
She was still a beautiful woman inspite of the weight of dramatic burden of her life. She cried about "'us" and what could have been had we stayed together..

In 2006 she was married again- this time to a Rx drug addicted high school principal who "needed" her She told me that she was "committed" to caring for him..

She was ultimately incapable of working because of her chronic migraines, and both of them were living on Govt disability payments last time I spoke to her .

There is a sadness to her life but also a relief in me that I did not marry her.

Selfishly, perhaps, I took her 'good years' and left the rest.

 

[Nightwing]

I've recently been talking to a lady who grew up with an abusive father until her mid-teens. I have read numerous horror stories on this forum about BPD women coming from these kinds of backgrounds. Would you ever give a girl like this a chance with your heart?

Chicks coming from a background of abuse is generally a red flag and should be kept at arms length. That's just my experience in dealing with them. Unless you want to be on an emotional rollercoaster with this type of person, it would be best to avoid her. Sooner or later, all that baggage is gonna come out and you'll be the unfortunate target of it all.

The issue is not giving her a chance with your heart, the real issue is TRUSTING her with your heart chicks like this can be very dangerous so be careful whatever you decide to do.

 

[backbreaker]

There was a woman I grew to be pretty good frends with. not that type of friends, really good friends, in AA... her mom basically made her trick for drugs when she was a kid. She didn't have a ****ing choice in the matter if she wanted to live there, mom was that strung out. She abused drugs for a while, but not as long as you would think, she she got grown, young 20's she got clean and has been clean ever since, and she's lke 46 now, she's got 23 or 24 years in AA, and she says I refused to use that as a reason to ruin my life.

That's the thing about it. Big events, rather they be abuse, whatever.. they spereate people who want , from people who choice if that makes sense. That woman chose to make something of her life.

The question I ask, alot of these woman, how would they be if they did not have daddy issues?


Hell I'm talkng in 3rd person, crap I abused drugs, and I used alot of crutches for a while. And yes I had some things that happened, but the day I got clean was the day I decided that I was going to stop waiting for things to happen to me and I was gong to go start happening to things. Alot of people don't have that mentality and the first sign of somethng traumatic, they crumble.

We have a very weak minded society as a whole IMHO.

 

[Warrior74]

There was a woman I grew to be pretty good frends with. not that type of friends, really good friends, in AA... her mom basically made her trick for drugs when she was a kid. She didn't have a ****ing choice in the matter if she wanted to live there, mom was that strung out. She abused drugs for a while, but not as long as you would think, she she got grown, young 20's she got clean and has been clean ever since, and she's lke 46 now, she's got 23 or 24 years in AA, and she says I refused to use that as a reason to ruin my life.

That's the thing about it. Big events, rather they be abuse, whatever.. they spereate people who want , from people who choice if that makes sense. That woman chose to make something of her life.

The question I ask, alot of these woman, how would they be if they did not have daddy issues?


Hell I'm talkng in 3rd person, crap I abused drugs, and I used alot of crutches for a while. And yes I had some things that happened, but the day I got clean was the day I decided that I was going to stop waiting for things to happen to me and I was gong to go start happening to things. Alot of people don't have that mentality and the first sign of somethng traumatic, they crumble.

We have a very weak minded society as a whole IMHO.

I'mma be honest man. 90% of what you posted in this thread had nothing to do with answering the OPs question. If a girl is confessing abuse issues, keep an eye out and see how that develops, it could be bad news. That's really the point here. Your friend, was just that, a friend. YOu have no idea what she has said in the past to some guy she was dating. And if, when she was in her 20s she confessed that to some guy after only knowing him a week or two he would be smart to keep an eye out on her for it. You are getting the tail end of the picture and from the friendzone at that. We are not talking about that perspective. (oh and you believe her, hell she told you didn't she?)

I've met more than a few girls who confessed abuse and were pretty F'd up individuals. Their confessions was almost like a warning "entering the crazy zone, last chance to bail". For the poor fools I know who didn't heed the warning, they got taken on a nasty ride. It doesn't matter if the abuse was real or not, the fact that they are telling you something so personal so soon should give you pause. Even if the preface it with "I feel so comfortable with you that I can share this" I would still take pause at such a quick confession. You have to wonder, what is the motivation behind such quick confessions. If its involuntary then she can't help that shes nuts, if its on purpose you have to keep an eye out for manipulation.

 

[backbreaker]

man i have been up for almost 2 days lol, i'm about to die in front of the pc. i'm surprised i got 10%

 

[betterthandead]

The thing with Borderline or Bipolar women is you should have a LONG COURTSHIP (friends first). In fact, most dating strategies that you read apply to men who date YOUNG women (before their age of 25) women in their late 20s and on wards are experienced, they've seen it all - the bullcrap! If you're serious and her personality is great, being friends first is the best suggestion ever. She'll still be suspicious though, but time/patience through friendship builds trust and thus you can be involved in relationships.

When you hear guys speak of the 3 date rule or whatever, that applies to healthy women. Healthy women tend to be frank and upfront about who they are and what they want. I'm not discounting emotionally damaged women such as Bipolar Disorder or Borderline Personality but if she is being happy/silly/charming on the first couple of dates, DO NOT BE FOOLED! Just like how most experienced women see smooth men (especially some in the Seduction Forums who claim to be "DJs" or Pseudo Ladies Men) as suspect, you should see charming women as suspect!

So basically:

1. Have a long courtship before you reach the kissing/making out stage. (3-5 months)

2. Be honest with who you are, who you were, and what you will become, You do not do this on the first couple of dates but stretch it out over a couple months.

3. Friends first. And I mean it. Hang out, do stuff. Girls are not dumb, when a guy asks them to hang out one on one, it's pretty much implied there is much more than this.