Guys - Please dont lose sight of the REAL picture...

[CableLight]

I appologize for the length, but please read it anyway. I promise to not try and waste someone's time with something that's been posted on these boards 1000 times before.

Without further adu:

Guys - There's something going on here at these forums that needs to be addressed. It's not some flamer / troll, it's not some "the system is wrong," type of problem, and its not even something that anyone could really of prevented. But nonetheless, it's a problem. I havent been here what most people would call a "very long time," but I've been here long enough to not be blind to something going on here. Too many guys are losing sight of the real picture.

What's the real picture? I'm going to ask you all to have an open ear and mind, but -It's not how many women you score with, or talk to, or even know. It's not how much money you've got or some other miniscule item. The real picture, is, to put it plainly, the meaning of life. In reality, the meaning if life isnt something so "unknown" or mysterious as people make it to be. The meaning if life varies from person to person, but in simple terms, its their "meaning" of being. I.E. their life's ultimate goal. If you wanna be a doctor - thats your meaning of life. If you wanna be an Olympic athelete - that's your meaning of life. Simply put, it's what you're "supposed to do" with your life.

The thing is, too many people dont look at it anymore. They've replaced it, and based life on things like "how many phone numbers I can get" or "how many chicks i've banged today." In all seriousness - while yeah, these are pretty fun things, they're not overly important in the grand scheme of things, but they're constantly personified to be so at these forums. Dont get me wrong - if you get the balls to walk up and talk to some chick, then thats great. But dont base your life's happiness or meaning on women.

Everyday there's posts about being the "ultimate Don Juan." He's apparently this playboy that is God's (if you believe in God that is, but we wont get into that here) gift to women. And basically - that's all he's got going for him (except maybe money...but whoo-hoo to that). He's not some engineering genious, or Nobel-Prize-winning doctor, or really anything that's any sort of benefit to society or the world. In old age, this Don Juan is going to never be happy with any women he finds, and is going to end up being unfulfilled and lonely. Having based his life on how many women he gets, then moving on to the next one, he'll more then likely die alone and possibly forgotten. He might of made a contribution to the world, but it played second fiddle to his women, and as a result was never noticed for it.

That's what the deal is guys...As I've said - yeah, it's great to work up the courage to talk to women and whatever. And yeah, it's great to get it on with some hottie, but dont make it something that it's not, and dont make women something that they're not. I mean - so what if you can talk to any woman you want? Big deal, is that going to earn you a degree in physics or teach a kid how to read? Is that going to do something profound that the world couldnt get by without? The real thing to be proud of is overcoming your social anxiety and bettering yourself as a person.

In conclusion, if you at least care about your future happiness in life (honestly, I dont see some 90 year old grandpa DJ'ing on some 20 year old), dont waste all of the best years of your life being a goddamn ass to everyone that wants to get to know you better by using them. Because sometimes, there's nothing wrong with doing the right thing. I'm no one to tell anyone how to live their life, and nobody else is either. But for anyone still listening - you'd be better off (in terms of being happy and fulfilled) in the long run having someone you actually care about waking up next to you every morning and growing old with for the rest of your life then you ever would if you just banged that very person 30 years ago and left. I dont know if that sounded AFC, I dont care honestly. If you're not into that whole "marrige" thing, then that's fine, that isnt my call.

Anyway, I've put all I can squeeze from myself into making this post as complete as possible. Hopefully someone read the whole thing. One last thing - Here's what I want all you guys to do (this wont require hardly any effort, just a little memory): in 30 years ask yourself 1 question. Ask yourself if what you've done in life has made you a happy person today. And think a sec before you answer it.

Later...


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CableLight
- Hey, I dunno what my name means either

"Always remember those you love. Even in death, no one is ever truely gone as long as they are remembered."

Life is the hardest teacher. For she gives the test first, and the lesson after.

 

[~The_Chosen~]

Yes, I agree with you CableLight, people tend to look onto Love as a weakness. It isn't.

Remember that saying from the wise man?

"A great man isn't one that seduces a million women in his lifetime, but a great man is one who can hold on to one women."

Something like that. But the point is, don't be an DJ Extremist and denounce Love, the thought of it or any such. Love isn't love if the girl you love tells you she loves you and then dates another man.

The weakness is inside yourself, don't close all your mind's doors and avoid the problem. "Love is only for AFC's" is one good example of a great mind becoming narrower.

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~The_Chosen~ has spoken...

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is just not an act but a habit." - Aristotle

Judge a man by his questions and not his answers.

 

[Wyldfire]

Cablelight, that was about the best damn post I've ever read on here. It sums up exactly what I have been trying to say for quite some time.

Beautiful...absolutely beautiful.

 

[ghost_x01]

Well said. Couldn't have said it better myself (probably couldn't even have said as well

).


G. Host

 

[Keymaster of Goza]

I think your misrepresenting what this forum is about.

Being a DJ means different things to different guys. To some it is about becoming a player, to some it is about keeping a woman in an LTR.

I like to think that the DJ creedo is one that will help me become the kind of man who the the kind of woman I want will want.

That kind of man does not take shyt from women or bow down to their demands.

That kind of man has an interesting rewarding life of his own, which he is successful at.

That kind of man knows that women are a spice that adds flavour to living, not the meat and potatoes of his existence.

 

[Socrates]

whoa hold on there........

if u look at this logically then the meaning of ALL mens lives is to procreate!!!!

its why we are hear on earth.... to make sure the human race doesnt die out!!!

some of u guys really do try and complicate things to much!! lol

 

[stuartSan]

Bump.

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i'd rather die than give you control

 

[Monkey]

My feelings EXACTLY!

 

[CableLight]

Keymaster of Goza - I agree with most of what you said about "not taking sh!t from women" and "women are just a spice to life." I agree with you on that because thats what my post was about. Those are the sort of things that guys ought to try to look at sometimes. Not basing life and happiness on chicks. Indeed - Use this forum to make yourself better, but that doesnt mean using others to make yourself feel better without giving it another thought.

Socartes - Yeah, you can say that in the simplest form of life here, men are here to procreate. Nothin' wrong with that, but as an equally logical lifeform (above things like dogs and cattle), people are one of the few species that mate for life. Or, we try to, but things like divorses and whatever can happen, but nonetheless that's what we are. Anyway, the point is - as a species that does the whole "for life" thing, that's what this forum should be used for. Building up your self confidence and esteem, getting rid of your anxieties and weaknesses, and turning yourself into the best and most desirable person you can be. Which in turn, will help you out in the long run of finding that person.

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CableLight
- Hey, I dunno what my name means either

"Always remember those you love. Even in death, no one is ever truely gone as long as they are remembered."

Life is the hardest teacher. For she gives the test first, and the lesson after.

 

[Serg897]

A truly excellent post Cablelight. My thoughts exactly over the last week. What you wrote was an essay, it had an intoduction, conclusion, suporting paragraphs with specific details, lol. Engish class is getting to me. anyway, those have been my exact thoughts over the weeks. I have some friends that all they think about is getting with girls. Some of the time they arrange some sort of event like the movies with girls while I have something like fencing practice. This happened the other day. I like my sport, and wasnt gonna change my schedule for the sake of a couple of girls, it was an important practice anyway becuase we had the states tournament the next day. (all of Connecticut). There will be other little social events, but that was a practice in which i had to be there for the team. They tell me that fencing has taken over my life, but it is them changing thier schedule for something like that. Girls have taken over THIER lives.

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-Sergio
AIM:Thrawn1212
E-Mail:Thrawn1212@aol.com

"If at first you dont succeed, try, try, again"

"No not try, DO. Or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

 

[CableLight]

Cool Serg, that's a great way to handle something like that. I mean, if you've got something you wanna do, or something important to do - friggin do it

I always hear people on here say things like "a real DJ is always busy and is always with people" or something to that effect. While that's a good way to be (being as sociable as possible), a truly intelligent "DJ" would set priorities also, much like that fencing class you have. And in all honesty ya'll - there's nothing wrong with having a "day off" from people and doing something that YOU want to do. Dont say to yourself everyday that "I've GOT to do something with all my friends or I've failed this day," okay? Yeah - party when you can, have fun when you can, but feel free to take a break and recouperate.

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CableLight
- Hey, I dunno what my name means either

"Always remember those you love. Even in death, no one is ever truely gone as long as they are remembered."

Life is the hardest teacher. For she gives the test first, and the lesson after.

 

[WildThang]

Originally posted by CableLight:
Keymaster of Goza - I agree with most of what you said about "not taking sh!t from women" and "women are just a spice to life." I agree with you on that because thats what my post was about. Those are the sort of things that guys ought to try to look at sometimes. Not basing life and happiness on chicks.

Whoa there. Any guy who uses this board to base his life and happiness on chicks is totally missing the point.

In fact the opposite is true.

The point of these boards is to put the importance of chicks into its rightful place. Which is to say, not at the top of the list *which is where they always want to be.* And where every poor brainwashed AFC believes they are too.

[B} Indeed - Use this forum to make yourself better, but that doesnt mean using others to make yourself feel better without giving it another thought. [/B]

Who said anything about using anyone? Some people, especially chicks like WF, have this crazy idea that this is all about using.

It's not. It's about two things:

The first is not letting *guys* be used by *chicks.* Not in terms of time, money, emotional energy, attention, or anything else.

That is the point you're missing here, CL. Chicks use guys all the time in all those ways. They really and truly do, and it's often not a pretty sight. So if you ignore that fact, your relationships with them aren't going to be worth shyt, no matter how much you use the 'L' word.

The alternative is to screen them for what they can offer you. You know that however you play it you're going to have to do some giving when you're with them. That's taken as read. All you're doing is making sure that *what you get back is something you want, and that makes you happy.* Not nothing, not something that's not good for you but she happens to feel like giving you. But something that *is* good for you and is going to improve your life.

Is there anything evil about this? Not that I can see. It ruffles a few chick feathers because suddenly they're not the main event anymore and of course they hate that.

But that's not a guy's problem. <shrug> Nor should it be.

The second reason for this forum is for recovering AFCs to learn to take some responsibility for their own lives. And to work out that fvck no, they don't *need* to take that shyt they've been taking from other people all their lives. Or settling for second best in other ways.

[B} Socartes - Yeah, you can say that in the simplest form of life here, men are here to procreate. Nothin' wrong with that, but as an equally logical lifeform (above things like dogs and cattle), people are one of the few species that mate for life. Or, we try to, but things like divorses and whatever can happen, but nonetheless that's what we are. Anyway, the point is - as a species that does the whole "for life" thing, that's what this forum should be used for. [/B]

Grow a brain, CL. Neither men nor women mate 'for life.' Affairs and cheating are absolutely the rule, not the exception.

Take a look here:
http://www.2-in-2-1.com/marriageclinic/infidelity/monmythart/

Is this good? Is this bad? Neither. It's just the way it is.

So only an AFC is ever going to buy into this 'for life' crap. That's simply not how it works. It's not how it has *ever* worked. There are even good evolutionary reasons why things are like that.

Does that mean it works for some people? Sure does. Does it work for everyone? Uh uh. No way.

You don't want to mate 'for life' just because it's something you learned to want in Sunday school. The *smart* thing to do is to learn how to pick a mate whose company improves your life in as many major ways you can find, and then worry about the 'for life' stuff for later.

And finally - please get off this implied idea you seem to be having a problem with, that if a guy just wants sex with a chick and she agrees that he has somehow used her.

Unless he lies to her about an LTR or something - something I'd never suggest that guys do, and which I never do myself - she always goes into that as an equal party. She's not a victim of his evil sexual lusts or any crap like that. She does it because she wants to and because it's fun for her.

This is one thing AFCs don't even want to consider - the possibility that chicks may be more sexually giving and interested and responsive than they could ever begin to imagine.

Too bad. Becomes not a few chicks really *are* like that. They'll be happy to take your **** and give it a happy home for a night, no complications. And without feeling any need at all to tell you they've been used afterwards.

And even... some of the chicks who are like that would *really* surprise you if you knew what they got up to, while you're busy talking about 'for life' relationships.

 

[Wyldfire]

Still gnawing that old bone, are you?

That's NOT my position at all, and you need to dig the shyt out of your ears because you don't listen for crap.

I think this site is seriously lacking in advice, tips, support and techniques for helping guys learn how to have a relationship. Even with the ideal mate it still takes work and effort to maintain a relationship. Most of the men here ARE going to want a LTR at some point. What good is it to weed out the wrong women to find the right one if you have no experience in having a relationship? It's no good at all because you can't hold onto a good woman if you are a relationship retard. My complaints about this site are:

1) Too much running away and quitting for very minor reasons.

2) Not enough help and guidance for LTRs.

3) Too much blaming and not enough taking responsibility for the role you play in your own misery.

4) Using the tools here to make others insecure or hurt them instead of using them to make yourself a more desirable and better person.

For the record, if a woman is so stupid to hop into bed with any man who shows even a passing interest in her, she gets what she deserves. Same thing for the AFC who puts a woman on a pedestal when she pays him a little bit of attention. Everyone plays a part in how they are treated and in my book, need to be held accountable for that role they play.

 

[Geno]

right on Cablelight! Way too many people here are focusing too much on their biological desires and not enough on what's really important to them (and if what's really important to you is getting a girl, well, that's just fvcking pathetic).

 

[CableLight]

WildThang (your post is too long to quote the whole thing, so hopefully you'll know what I'm referring to here). Even though it's mostly going back over crap I already said.

The first thing you quoted of mine, you basically said the exact same thing I did. Guys should not base their own happiness on the amount of women they get. If they do, that's a tragically sad scenario.

The thing about "using" people comes from many topics on this board. I wont list any particulars, but there's plenty out there with the goal of screwin some chick and headin out without giving it another thought. That's not what (at least it seemed) this board was supposed to be for, wouldnt you agree? Yeah, chicks use guys. But I suppose doing the same makes it better? Not really - not taking their bullcrap is a start though (going back to what I've said about self esteem and whatnot.

You're next couple of paragraphs repharse stuff I've already said (gee, agian). What people ought to be happy about is that they've gained this new self esteem and have overcome their anxieties. So in other words, you've missed my point, not the other way around. It's about "growing" up out of this AFC phase of life and being glad you did. It's about being able to stand up to that b!tch and tell them you dont give a flying fvck. It's about being able to make yourself that much more of a complete person.

Now you go into a paragraph about the marrige thing. You seem pretty negative on the subject - bad experience perhaps? It's a shame if that's the case. Although, like I said (again you missed this point I made and tried to make a childish insult about it) things like divorse and whatnot come into play that disrupt the whole "mating for life" thing. However, like it or not, that's the way people have been "expected" or "looked" to be, for lack of a better term. It's a shame it doesnt work out for the long run as much as it should but that doesnt change it. Ask some 10th grade biology teacher if you need some background on species and their sub-phylums mating tendencies.

Moving along - please get off the idea that I'm on the idea that when a women and a man get it on, that one of them is being used. I believe what WyldFire said covers that area enough. But nevertheless - if neither of the two peopel has a problem with it, then who cares? I never said it was wrong if it's all good between the two of them. I just said that it'd be more "worthful" if it was for something more.

Hopefully if you reply to this you wont just requote my exact words by saying the same goddamn thing over again.

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CableLight
- Hey, I dunno what my name means either

"Always remember those you love. Even in death, no one is ever truely gone as long as they are remembered."

Life is the hardest teacher. For she gives the test first, and the lesson after.

 

[MG69]

actually i beg to differ
though i am new to these DJ tatics, but from wat i gather from all the information when reading the board i have a totally diff idea.

The real DJ tatic is to get our own life and do more selfimprovement and this is actually applting more to our lives then to getting numbers and chicks.

To me i think the we a are getting a life more out of this techniques and getting the numbers and chick are just the by products

The real DJ (to wat i gather) is one who has a great and interesting life not some a$$ who is looking for chicks and numbers.

If ppl came in here is to learn just to get numbers and chicks then i think the mentality is all wrong.....


Just my 2 cents worth

 

[WildThang]

Originally posted by CableLight:
WildThang (your post is too long to quote the whole thing, so hopefully you'll know what I'm referring to here). Even though it's mostly going back over crap I already said.

You just told everyone that you think what you said was crap?

Neat move.

The thing about "using" people comes from many topics on this board. I wont list any particulars, but there's plenty out there with the goal of screwin some chick and headin out without giving it another thought.

No - you don't get off that easy.

Let's see some particulars. Show us the beef here.

More than that - let's see what proportion of the posts on this board look anything like what you're saying.

If it's any more than five percent you can have the PC I'm writing this on for nothing.

More than *that* - read back what you wrote and tell me with a straight face that you don't believe that 'screwing chicks' without some kind of deep emotional involvement is a bad thing for guys to be doing.

That's not what (at least it seemed) this board was supposed to be for, wouldnt you agree? Yeah, chicks use guys. But I suppose doing the same makes it better? Not really - not taking their bullcrap is a start though (going back to what I've said about self esteem and whatnot.

And still with this using thing. Enough already!

Now you go into a paragraph about the marrige thing. You seem pretty negative on the subject - bad experience perhaps?

Wrong guess. I'm not negative about *good* marriages. Not a few things I've posted here have been about how to raise your chances of finding exactly that.

However - the fact is dude, you're talking complete shyt about this 'for life' idea.

I can post stats from any number of places that say you are wrong. Divorce doesn't 'get in the way.' Divorce and infidelity happen because many, many people are not, in fact, naturally monogamous, and trying to be something you're not puts a big strain on you.

So you are wrong. That's wrong as in incorrect, mistaken, not getting it, and not in touch with the facts of how these things really are.

These are facts collected by a couple of generations of psychologists, counsellors and researchers. Hey - maybe they're all wrong too. Maybe someone who sounds like he's at the sub-biology 101 stage knows more than they do.

Maybe I have a bridge to sell you.

Whatever - whether you want to believe it or not, reality is not with you on this one.

More than that, the belief that finding The One is some kind of holy grail is *absolutely* the AFC mindset, and ultimately sucky because of that.

That's not how it works for real adults. DJs here will tell you - with reason - that the way to find The One, if you absolutely must go looking for her, is to have sex with as many different cool, fun women as possible.

Until one morning you wake up and realise 'Hey!' And there it is.

This is a far more mature approach to the problem than the endless impotent romantic pining that AFCs do. Although a lot of women hate it because it means they don't get cards and flowers and meals and shyt for free, like they're used to.

It also has the useful side effect of keeping you out of the reach of those women who happen to be control freaks, and will use AFC insecurities to corner a guy in a marriage and make his life unbearable.

See the Breaking Point thread for some examples.

But hey - I expect *you're* far too smart and experienced in the ways of women to fall for something like that, huh?

Moving along - please get off the idea that I'm on the idea that when a women and a man get it on, that one of them is being used. I believe what WyldFire said covers that area enough. But nevertheless - if neither of the two peopel has a problem with it, then who cares? I never said it was wrong if it's all good between the two of them. I just said that it'd be more "worthful" if it was for something more.

And I'm saying that's an AFC mindset. It's such an AFC mindset that you're completely blind about how AFC it is.

No, doing any one thing is *not* more worthful than doing any other thing.

The only worthful thing is doing things that make you happy and not doing things that don't.

*If* a marriage is going to make you happier than by all means do it. But marriage in itself is neither more or less worthful than a one night stand, group sex or any of the other things that people who aren't still confused teens enjoy.

Marriage isn't some magical, mystical state. Marriage is just two people living under the same roof, sharing bills and - if it's a good marriage - having way more fun than not.

It works like this:

AFCs turn up here. They get put through boot camp. Boot camp is harsh. Boot camp is where they realise that everything they've ever believed about love and romance is not just wrong, it's fvcking with their heads and making them easy prey for the kinds of women they shouldn't be getting involved with.

After a while they take on some of the DJ message. They find they have *some* control. And that plenty of chicks they would have died for in the past are seriously screwy and not worth the day-old socks they're wearing.

At the same time, other quality chicks they wouldn't have dreamed of approaching are now on the radar...

This is a revelation. Sometimes guys take the 'next' thing too too far, sometimes they don't. Either way they get out there and have fun.

*Then* after a while sex gets so easy to find that it becomes kind of boring. Personality starts to matter more. So they get more selective about who they're banging.

But guess what? The DJ rules still apply.

*Maybe* at this point the DJ will find himself in an LTR with a chick. Maybe not. If he does, it'll happen. If he doesn't want to, he doesn't go down that route. If he's a real master, he keeps in contact with at least some of these chicks and they stay friends. The Loneliness of the Long Distance AFC isn't an issue for him. He's a cool guy, and they're happy to know him.

And *that* is what this board is about.

 

[CableLight]

Sigh here we go...

Let's see, by "crap" I actually referred to "stuff that's starting to get redundant to have to explain over and over again." I'm sorry I didnt say "words" or "stuff" in order to please you.

Let's look around here Wild - What have I said in my posts:

1) Guy's shouldnt base their happiness on how many chicks they get and such.
-Since you said the exact same thing that I did in a previous post, I'll assume you agree with that.
2) Guy's should use this forum for things like improving their self esteem, overcoming their social anxieties, and all in all becoming a better person. That's something to be happy with.
- Again, since you made an attempt to say the exact same thing I did in my previous post, I'll assume you agree.
3) Marrige is something that, well, if people are lucky enough they might encounter and make it last, it'll be a good thing. If they've got the real deal and the real mutual feeling to make it go the distance, and it does, they'll probably be in a generally good mood. Or at least a better one than being alone.
- I'll spell this out for you so you dont get easily confused - Notice how everything I said points to the people involved enjoying what they're apart of? Relate any forth coming comment you might feel like contributing with that in mind.
4) In order to achieve #3, yeah, people are probably going to have to look around and put in a little work. That's obvious, no?

What I'm saying here, which is apparently lost on you - Is that yes, you're going to have to get with some people. What I advised people to do in my first post, however, is to pay attention to who these people are. Because if they look hard enough, it might be the very person they can spend the rest of their life with. I'm saying "Dont just go from person to person without giving it a second thought. Instead, look around at what you've got." Thats how you "wake up and say 'Hey!' there it is" as you put it.

I guess I'm wondering what you've got against people finding the right person and marrying them. Since that's what I said before. It was never "just get married for the hell of it with someone you dont really care about," which is what it sounds like you thought I meant.

Lemme just clarify something for you - I'm referring to one night stands when I say "dont just bang someone and move on." I'm not referring to dating. Maybe you're a fan of the One-Nighter, but that's not my call. I'm saying, date people that you're interested in and make an effor to take a look and see if they're what you're looking for. Dont screw with some chick for the hell of it and leave, there's no gain in that.

Also, since I've gone through the trouble of saying countless times that "women are a spice to life, not life itself," I'm not sure where you're getting what you said about "the one being a holy grail." I'm saying that yeah, they can make life fun, but it's not something that'll make or break the world as we know it. Or maybe you feel otherwise on that?

I know what marrige is. I'm saying that, (once again, dont turn my words around and make something else up) if two people are happy together - then they'll be happier then they if they werent together. It's a better state of mind having that person there then not (once again, if the marrige is genuine, which is what i've been talking about the whole time in my examples - not this "half-hearted" stuff).

As for your theory of how the message board works - that's what (again) i've been talking about for the most part. The AFC comes in, learns some self esteem, learns to get over his fears, goes out into the real world, and hopefully after he puts in some effort he finds someone worth spending some time with. That's how I'd hope a lot of people would like their experiences to work out. If you'd rather use this place for learning how to get chicks and ditch em, then that's your deal. I've already made a paragraph in my first post about that and dont feel like typing it off agian.

In closing - Wildthang, are you woman? I mean, sorry if you're not, I dont really know you at all, but I thought you might of said you were before...if that's the case, then I can see why our views would cross on this pretty easily. If not, then oh well, I dont honestly feel like logging on to type 3 page essays every day.


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CableLight
- Hey, I dunno what my name means either

"Always remember those you love. Even in death, no one is ever truely gone as long as they are remembered."

Life is the hardest teacher. For she gives the test first, and the lesson after.



[This message has been edited by CableLight (edited 03-03-2002).]

 

[Wyldfire]

I'm the woman

Wylldfire=woman

wildthang=man repeatedly mistaken for a woman

 

[Trickster_guy_2001]

Hey, that was great.

Peronally, I'm into the whole "commitment" thing, and so much of this site is dedicated to one night stands, but not so much for getting a girl who will stick with you, and whom you can stick with.

Anyway, that's a great post.

It's always important to change the world for the better, even if only in some small way.