Gunman opens fire on lecture hall at Northern Illinois U

[ItsOnNow]

This is a very interesting thread,with alot of very interesting points. I myself am against gun control for the same reason I wouldn't want someone telling me what to read,listen too,or what websites I can or cannot view. Gun's form some people are a hobby. Why should they be demonized or mistreated? Bad stuff is always gonna happen,guns or not. The real answer to all this is something else.

 

[Levex]

Dont know about the sources for this table, and it is a lil outdated, but i thought it was interesting:

http://www.swivel.com/data_columns/spreadsheet/6907217

 

[bigjohnson]

That's a common trend but there are reasonable arguments against a causal link. Also it really is twice as likely for someone in Oregon to have a gun as someone in Illinois. Interesting.

 

[Ultimate Player]

ahh, America, where people are more well off than in any other country, and more messed up mentally at the same time

gotta love the spoiled *****es that live here and take their "freedom" too far

 

[Desert Fox]

All automatic weapons should be BANNED for anyone except for the military.

I bet you cannot name one GOOD reason automatic weapons should NOT be banned.

You don't need an UZI to kill a deer.

 

[Bible_Belt]

That's actually untrue. It's easy and fairly cheap to legally own a fully automatic firearm.

Is it legal to own or buy a fully automatic firearm?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080102143807AAH6ghX

I don't know about the "easy" part, maybe it is a matter of interpretation, but state and local regulations must also be cleared if the gun owner is trying to be legal. And I would not be in any hurry to make the ATF part of my life. From what I read, they retain the right to come to your house to inspect your gun storage every year if they elect to do so.

 

[Bible_Belt]

And about guns... If these kids were smart or thoughtful about what they were doing, they'd make an IED and walk into the class with it strapped to their chest a la suicide bomber.

That is a very good point. We see suicide bombers in Iraq, much more often than suicide gunmen, because IEDs are a much more efficient way of killing innocent people than even a full auto AK-47, which I have read go for like fifteen bucks in Iraq these days.

 

[insomniac]

IIRC the VT shooter was a bonafide mental patient but privacy laws PREVENTED the gun dealer from finding that little tidbit out. I wouldn't be shocked if similar circumstances came to light here.

Where does a persons right to medical privacy end and my right to be safe begin? Why can't they just have a nondescriptive note available to law enforcement and such (background checks go via law enforcement I believe) that says "Joe Bob cannot purchase weapons (get a drivers license, whatever) until further notice"?

I believe medical records should be kept confidential.

However, any nut can just check the "not insane" box on the application and get away with it. What's wrong with having a gun license applicant sign a waiver to release their medical records? If you want a gun, you agree to allow them access to your records. If not, rejected. We release personal information to people all the time in order to get services.

 

[bigjohnson]

I believe medical records should be kept confidential.

However, any nut can just check the "not insane" box on the application and get away with it. What's wrong with having a gun license applicant sign a waiver to release their medical records?

When I go to get a gun I have a background check run and it says yes or no. It doesn't have to say precisely why. I have no issue with the concept that applying for a gun gives implicit consent for the agency doing the check to invade my medical history and give the dealer a simple red light/green light result.

Is it legal to own or buy a fully automatic firearm?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080102143807AAH6ghX

I don't know about the "easy" part, maybe it is a matter of interpretation, but state and local regulations must also be cleared if the gun owner is trying to be legal.

Well, *I* can drive about 2 blocks from work and drop a few thousand dollars and have a LEGAL fully automatic firearm in a matter of weeks. The dealer may have to jump through a few hoops but that's what he gets paid for. That seems pretty easy to me.

 

[Bible_Belt]

But we do ignore the literal language of the Second Amendment. At the time of its writing, a citizenry armed with mostly hunting rifles was a formidable military force. Today, shotgun-toting rednecks are no credible threat to the US military. But the right to bear arms is obviously infringed, or else you could own real military weapons like rocket launchers, tanks, and fighter jets. We have to ignore the literal language of the Amendment for the sake of public safety. That is a slippery slope, I agree, but the Supreme Court does it all the time.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I have yet to learn of any guerilla force that has truly been defeated by a standing army.

Not since 1776, ironically enough.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I teach college students, and I think the idea of my carrying a gun to class is absolutely ridiculous. If a student wants to kill me, there's nothing I can do, especially in America because the student can easily obtain a gun.

I like all other aspects of your post, but I think you're grossly overreacting when it comes to advocating professors carry handguns. That's not a solution, nor will it ever be...

Personally, I don't believe that there would be too many teachers/professors who genuinely want to help students that would agree to carrying a weapon. It would just feel as it would go against the very reason why they are in the profession.

 

[Maxtro]

I teach college students, and I think the idea of my carrying a gun to class is absolutely ridiculous. If a student wants to kill me, there's nothing I can do, especially in America because the student can easily obtain a gun.

I like all other aspects of your post, but I think you're grossly overreacting when it comes to advocating professors carry handguns. That's not a solution, nor will it ever be.

The solution requires gun seller's throughly examining prospective buyers' backgrounds; another part of the solution is eliminating media coverage of these tragedies.

Responsibility and common sense--not guns--will go a long way in saving this country from extinction.

Thats why I added an alternative solution. I realized that having professors being armed isn't very probable. There are other non-lethal weapons but it should entirely up to the individual if they choose to carry them.

I agree with your previous post, that it should be harder to get a gun and the background checks should be much more in depth.

The problem is that it doesn't prevent kids from stealing their parents guns. Last year my brother attempted suicide with my dad's gun. Thankfully he failed. I'm even happier that he did not go to a public place and try to take others with him.

Getting back to my original point, I think there should be people on campus who are trained on how to stop a shooter. There is no excuse for a rampage to last longer than 10 minutes.

 

[bigjohnson]

The solution requires gun seller's throughly examining prospective buyers' backgrounds;

This is already required. the dealer must follow a specific process to sell a firearm legally, one step of which is to obtain thumbprints and process them. If the background check needs to take into account other factors outside criminal record that should be the responsibility of the agency contracted to do the check, not individual dealers.

You can't reasonably expect every gun dealer have thorough multi-state investigations launched for each gun sale.


Our society promotes violence as a solution to problems. If you doubt it, look at all the dumbass threads where street fighting is being promoted as a good thing, a way to fix various issues.

 

[Bible_Belt]

The Army teaches infantry platoons to rush a close-proximity ambush. It is counter-intuitive to say the least, but I presume they know what they are talking about, and that refers to being outdoors. Inside, where the shooter is very close to his targets, rushing him should work even better. If the nearest three or four guys would just rush the shooter as soon as he started shooting, one of them would probably get his head blown off but the death tolls from these events would be just that one guy, instead of several more. Obviously, no one knows what they would do until they get in that situation, but I wish that schools would come up with a drill for a school shooter. We have fire, earthquake, and tornado drills in schools already, yet those events have not killed any students lately. I doubt shooter drills would happen, because it would be admitting we have a problem, but if they taught people to tackle that mother fvcker instead of fleeing in mass panic, I think that would prevent some deaths.

 

[Ricky]

I only have two things to add to this discussion...

1. Firearms should not be legally accessible to mentally disabled, mentally handicapped, or clinically depressed people.

2. There's been a long-standing media policy to NOT cover suicide stories. This is good because many suicides are just attention-seeking behaviors. School shootings are also attention-seeking behaviors and really just elaborate suicides(blowing ones own head off after shooting other students / forcing police to shoot you). These stories gaining wide recognition is just sending the message to other potential shooters that "I won't gain attention by shooting myself, but I will gain attention by shooting other people and then myself." Many of these school shootings are just people following in the footsteps of the columbine incident.

And about guns... If these kids were smart or thoughtful about what they were doing, they'd make an IED and walk into the class with it strapped to their chest a la suicide bomber.

Item 2 I agree with. They need to stop covering these.

The final comment is chilling. A co-worker and I talked about this as well. It's amazing it hasn't happened with.

Since the ACLU is preventing wiretapping consider it a matter of time. Too bad it couldn't happen at an ACLU office, it'd be more fitting.

By the way, a member of the Virginia ACLU got busted for child porn. No wonder they fight for privacy. The ACLU members are pedophiles!

 

[Ricky]

Also I think if anyone has ever used antidepressants or other drugs for a mental illness, they should never be allowed to carry a gun.

Too bad, it just seems reasonable to me.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Also I think if anyone has ever used antidepressants or other drugs for a mental illness, they should never be allowed to carry a gun.

Too bad, it just seems reasonable to me.

But that would mean that depressed people would be treated differently from people who aren't depressed and that's not American! Everyone in America has the same rights no matter how messed up they may be!

 

[SmoothTalker]

Are more guns the solution? **** no. Look at other countries that are very similar socially and economically to the US, but with much tighter gun controls. This sort of **** is much much less common. Denying that is just burying your head in the sand.

However, would a nut-case with enough motivation figure out some other method if they couldn't buy a gun, ie, illegal guns or explosives, sure.

The core of the problem is some sort of messed up obsession with violence that you Americans have. A nipple slip!!! gets weeks of attention on the news but brutal violence is common prime time tv material. And the weirdest part is in terms of minor violence, it's pretty quite around here. I know in countries like Russia, fist fights are far more common. I guess nobody wants to do that in the US, they'd rather bottle it up and then blow people's heads off. Personally I'd rather have a black eye or two, but whatever.

 

[Bible_Belt]

The core of the problem is some sort of messed up obsession with violence that you Americans have.


That, or everyone in Canada is a gun-hating pvssy, eh?