Got into an argument with a senior co-worker

[AAAgent]

Well my co-worker and i have just joined the company about 4 months ago. our team is comprised of 4 people. 1 senior, 3 junior and my boss.

me and the other new junior are pretty smart. the other junior is okay as well but still a junior worker. We have been told to direct our questions to the senior worker but the thing is the senior worker really doesn't know much but has been with the company for 4 years. we've both asked the senior analyst questions in which most of the time she can't give a good straight answer. I can tell she feels that we are undermining her authority since after we ask her the question and she can't answer it, we go directly to our boss.

we can't really help it because these questions need to be addressed. I try to not make her feel inferior and i try to respect her as an older person. She's only like 3-5 years older.

she b1tched at my co-worker yesterday for this mistake she made....the thing was she never informed us of this in the first place that's why the mistake was made. The next morning due to the fact that i received a similar problem and the mistake was "a delayed response" i couldn't help it since i received the questions the previous day and was left with responding asap the next morning. basically the owner of the company/BOSS sends questions which i wasn't aware needed to be responded to ASAP. Since most of my work is required to be finished ASAP i focused on my other work and my co-worker made the same assumption as well until she was yelled at. We get yelled at for many things by this senior because we aren't informed ahead of time of the criteria. She says that's the way she was trained and she got yelled at alot.

She always overloads us with work and then *****es when we ask to reassign some work, etc. but then she goes and tells us to not send her stuff because she busy. She also ask's my boss for extensions on her work.

She yells at me telling me she told me to get this done asap.

I kindly emailed her back saying she must have told the other co-workers and not me.

She get's furious stands up and yells
"AAAgent I TOLD YOU THIS."

"HB5, you didn't tell me this. im positive."

"AAAgent, DON'T TELL ME I DIDN"T TELL YOU. I TOLD YOU THIS."

HB5 i'm sure you didn't tell me this.

she starts screaming some more at me and then she sits down. I was sitting down the whole time and people in my whole department are looking at us.

since i didn't want to make a scene and call her aside to talk, i sent her a respectful but CLEAR email stating she was wrong in what she did.

It was titled work guidelines and criticism. Below is most of it:

Hi HB5,

First I would like to say, thank you for your help so far and feedback.

In light of this, I believe there is a better way of delivering your feedback because I find the way you respond sometimes rather offensive which passes the borderline threshold of harsh. I don’t think it’s very considerate when you inform hb4(coworker) specificly about the Boss(timely response to his questions) rule and not myself, you yell at me for it. You did not tell me anything from BOSS had to be responded to within 15 minutes. You have told me about xxx and xxx that need to be done within a day and urgent requests. There have been all these tidbit important rules that are only directed to my attention after I have made the mistake since I was not properly informed. If there was a list available on these details it would have saved both the junior workers and senior workers the trouble.

BOSS's request was tagged as urgent I just checked and that is my fault and I apologize for that but I still did not appreciate you yelling outloud at me directly. Would you appreciate this? I have always treated you respectfully and politely and I am only asking for the same.

Along with this, I know we are supposed to be logging 4 deals daily, possibly even 5. I agree we are supposed to be multi-tasking while doing our work but during a the day where I was sent 3 public deals in different countries/currencies along with 3 hours of meetings with xxx and Team presentation I don’t find it reasonable again to be criticized for not being able to log 3 public deals in 5 hours or less.

I am available to talk about this if you would like to discuss this further since I believe we have both gotten off on the wrong foot lately.


-AAAgent



Just wanted some feedback on how i handled this. I believe i handled it alright. I was not disrespectful and i was honest.

i will let everyone know the actual response and how it turned out.

 

[AAAgent]

anyone care to share their experiences.

Whether they ignored the conflict and let it blow over or stood up for what they believed was unfair?

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

Ahh...I vaguely remember where you're coming from.

You're 23 and think you're a whole lot smarter than you actually are, you have it all figured out. Let me tell you something kid - if you were really so much smarter and better than the people you answer to, they would be answering to you.

Truth does not care about your excuses and rationalizations for why they are higher up the totem pole than you, and in this time you should try to see from your senior's point of view. You're in a leadership position, and some 23 year old punk kid under your command dares to defy your authority. WHO THE FVCK DOES THIS KID THINK HE IS?

And now you have to work under this person, who will most surely NEVER forget your childish and disrespectful display of defiance. And when the time comes that your bosses' boss sais, "We need to cut some fat in your dept.", whose name will be heartily recommended to get the ax?

Remember that **** rolls downhill, and you are standing at the bottom.

If you ever wish to become a LEADER, you will adopt the habit of ALWAYS accepting responsibility, and NEVER passing the buck, for any of your fvckups, and even those of your peers. Even when it's not your fault, you take it anyway. Arguing and blaming is for pvssies who don't make the grade.

Just take it as a lesson learned.

 

[AAAgent]

I don't know if i'm smarter than the senior but i know alot of the things my senior says is wrong.

I was told i forgot to list one of the executives since i add alot of ceo's and cfo's to my work information. I was told this new person will be a CFA. We only add executives and my senior told me to add the new cfa which is the equivalent of the CFO........

A CFA is a chartered financial analyst, it isn't an executive position. I just ignored that comment. It's hard to respect someone when during every single meeting that person has nothing to say when everyone is asking questions, opts out of meetings, prefers not to have team brainstorming, and everytime you ask a difficult question defers the question to someone else.

On a side note, the senior apologized and said that it wouldn't happen again. I had my review with my boss yesterday and he gave me a raise and appreciated the spice i added to the team. I also proposed a teambuilding assignment which leads to a lunch and we're having the lunch tomorrow!

Apparently the other junior employees also feel the same way i do. I know my co-worker that started the same time as me does since she always corrects the senior. My boss said at the end of the review that the junior analysts should trust more in the senior analyst and they have been with the company a while and do know alot. He said the same thing to my other co-worker apparently about trusting the senior analyst.

There is a difference i believe in what your saying julius. You say that i need to accept responsibility. I do all my work, i stay later than others and come earlier to finish my work since i have taken on heavier workloads as of lately due to a request by my boss. I don't push my work onto others. but on a day where i'm in the office for about 2 hours and you give me work that requires 5 hours of office time does that make any sense? The work that is handed to me is urgent and i know i won't be in the office since it was scheduled before hand so i must let the senior know to re-assign this work because it needs to get done. This kind of stuff happens alot to us. We get extra heavy workloads which i can barely handle sometimes with my extra load as of late. My other co-workers agree, since we have many seniors and its only this one treating us this way.

 

[backbreaker]

Ahh...I vaguely remember where you're coming from.

You're 23 and think you're a whole lot smarter than you actually are, you have it all figured out. Let me tell you something kid - if you were really so much smarter and better than the people you answer to, they would be answering to you.

Truth does not care about your excuses and rationalizations for why they are higher up the totem pole than you, and in this time you should try to see from your senior's point of view. You're in a leadership position, and some 23 year old punk kid under your command dares to defy your authority. WHO THE FVCK DOES THIS KID THINK HE IS?

And now you have to work under this person, who will most surely NEVER forget your childish and disrespectful display of defiance. And when the time comes that your bosses' boss sais, "We need to cut some fat in your dept.", whose name will be heartily recommended to get the ax?

Remember that **** rolls downhill, and you are standing at the bottom.

If you ever wish to become a LEADER, you will adopt the habit of ALWAYS accepting responsibility, and NEVER passing the buck, for any of your fvckups, and even those of your peers. Even when it's not your fault, you take it anyway. Arguing and blaming is for pvssies who don't make the grade.

Just take it as a lesson learned.

dude, come on you are smarter than this



when i was 20 years old, there was no doubt in my mind within 2 months saling cars, i was the smartest person in the building. none whatsoever. hell the GM was just a year older than me (i bull **** you not, a 21 year old GM making 170k a year) and couldn't sale crack to a crackhead, just boned the owners daughter and got an easy job.


you have some people in real life jobs, that just are there becuase they are there.


AAA, read, study, live, breathe, the 48 laws of power. that book, is worth it's weight in gold. law 1 in particular applies directly to you.

the point isn't about being right, or being wrong, especially when dealing with a woman boss, come on man. law 24, play the perfect courtier, take the **** she is dealing because that's what she is going to do, and you can't do **** about it, but at the same time, learn how to distinguish yourself apart from the other junior members, yeild to superiority, yet exert power over people who you are in a position to do so with.

 

[AAAgent]

i was basically doing that until she stood up and just started screaming at me for something i was never told.

First she sent me one of those b1tchy emails about "this needs to ALWAYS be responded to within 15 minutes."

i just replied back "Okay. I will take note of that in the future. Thanks."

"Then i get another response saying, I told you guys this already."

i basically just say she probably mistook telling someone else for telling me but i will not make that mistkae again.

This is where she stands up and starts yelling....

I'm sure if your sales manager just stands up and startings calling you a dumbass outload infront of everyone i don't think you'd take it.

I'm polite and respectful. Even though i don't appreciate the b1tchyness i still treat her like my senior. I ask her questions, thank her for her help, i try my best not to make her look inferior like my other co-worker, etc.

I treat others the way i want to be treated and if they don't fine, life's not perfect but i don't take disrespect from people outside of work so i'm not going to start taking it inside.

I do understand where she is coming from since the only way she can maintain her position is to exert her power over people below her. I'm okay with that just don't disrespect me. I acted the way i did because i had in my mind, if i have to take being disrespected as being a part of my daily life for as long as i'm here than i'd prefer not to be at this kind of company.

 

[Desert Fox]

Ahh...I vaguely remember where you're coming from.

You're 23 and think you're a whole lot smarter than you actually are, you have it all figured out. Let me tell you something kid - if you were really so much smarter and better than the people you answer to, they would be answering to you.

Truth does not care about your excuses and rationalizations for why they are higher up the totem pole than you, and in this time you should try to see from your senior's point of view. You're in a leadership position, and some 23 year old punk kid under your command dares to defy your authority. WHO THE FVCK DOES THIS KID THINK HE IS?

And now you have to work under this person, who will most surely NEVER forget your childish and disrespectful display of defiance. And when the time comes that your bosses' boss sais, "We need to cut some fat in your dept.", whose name will be heartily recommended to get the ax?

Remember that **** rolls downhill, and you are standing at the bottom.

If you ever wish to become a LEADER, you will adopt the habit of ALWAYS accepting responsibility, and NEVER passing the buck, for any of your fvckups, and even those of your peers. Even when it's not your fault, you take it anyway. Arguing and blaming is for pvssies who don't make the grade.

Just take it as a lesson learned.

I really don't care what happens, but just had to comment on the sheer stupidity of this guy. 28 years old ragging on a 23 yr old. Age doesn't matter but it shows the hypocrisy.

Let me tell you, the one thing I learned as I grow older is that if I should've trusted my gut more and stood up for myself more.

Sure you can put your head down like the other sheep and take the ass fvcking like a little b1tch, but when you have a family, hell when you're alone looking at yourself in the mirror will you respect that?

I've had 3 jobs, first one was great and I moved onto bigger better things. At this 2nd job I was also the youngest, but clearly the smartest. Everyone recognized this including the boss. Why? because even though a senior jealous fvck started sh1t with me I stood my ground, fought back tooth for tooth and my boss saw that I was the one in the right.

If my boss did NOT see that I was in the right when I knew I was, I would've quit and found another job.

Anyways after that I moved onto bigger and better things sagain and now at my 3rd job I'm the boss man. I see some people just cower to the bullies, it's sad to watch. When other dept heads come to sh1t on me I take their sh1t and shove it down their throats in front of my people and they respect me for it. LEADERS do not become leaders by hiding and cowering. They become leaders by LEADING because if you can't even stand up for yourslef how do you expect to stand up for those you lead? How can you expect them to respect you and follow a spineless pvssy? You can't.

You did the right thing, remained calm. Stand your ground and if yuo'reright you're right. If youre wrong, owe up to it and correct it in the future. There are sh1tbags like your supervisor everywhere, but most will appreciate someone with balls and a spine. it's rare these days.

 

[AAAgent]

haha everyone thinks my senior is my supervisor... i have a direct boss and my senior co-worker is just a senior co-worker. does not pay me or fire me. she does distribute my work though but doesn't track it.

Desert fox** i was thinking the exact same way you did. Thanks.

 

[Kailex]

Eh, is said person is NOT your boss and you do NOT report to him/her in a way that could get you fired, I would avoid the "voice" conversations as much as you could.

Try to get everything through email and document it.

I know it'll be hard, but no one is going to believe you if you complain and it's all just verbal harassment. Keep EVERY email, even the ones you send.

I remember saying that you were in court for something, does that show up in your permanent record for your job???

 

[AAAgent]

ya, i have everything documented. the court case i was found not guilty, which was a MAJOR relief.

I just gave my team presentation which went better than expected. I was applauded and congratulated even after i went to my seat. bad thing was, the senior kept making witty comments like "oh you're such a rebel aren't you." I ignored that. Right when the senior entered the room, she made a comment was like "is this going to take long?" i said probably. "Oh i'm going to have to push some my work on our boss then since i won't have time." It was just me her and another co-worker in the room. I just ignored that as well. I could tell even she kind of liked the presentation though.

 

[f283000]

dude, come on you are smarter than this



when i was 20 years old, there was no doubt in my mind within 2 months saling cars, i was the smartest person in the building. none whatsoever. hell the GM was just a year older than me (i bull **** you not, a 21 year old GM making 170k a year) and couldn't sale crack to a crackhead, just boned the owners daughter and got an easy job.

I think you should be smarter than this. It's only too common to hear how you're the best at your job specially coming from young guys. It has a lot to do with coming in with energy, youth, freshness into the workforce and ****yness of most young men. You are the the billionth guy to tell how they barely go into a job and was already the smartest or the best. It's all too common in fact I got my own story to say just that about my previous job. Don't think i'm discriminating against you cause of your age i'm 28 but I try to think of things from a more mature perspective and try to consider all angles.

When we're young we got all the energy in the world to rock it at anything we put our mind to. We want to stand out, we want to impress, we want to be #1. That's why we tend to perform at the level we do if we're motivated. But guess what there's another guy that was just like you who when he first started out went through the same process, and now doesn't give a sh*t anymore after being stuck and getting bored of his job. It happens to most of us.

At the end of the day it's not about thinking you're the best but actually how far you go. Everybody has a story to tell of how great they were and how they were the best at their job but got no promotions, awards or any achievements to prove it. Also when we're young we are all so quick to point out and see the mistakes others make and we see ourselves as doing nothing wrong. My recommendation to you AAA is to take a humble pill and remember you don't move up by attracting negative energy towards you, but by putting double the effort of everyone else and kissing the a$$ of your superiors.

And remember that same superior of yours maybe was in your same position when she started. She was new at the job, full of energy, wanting to impress, trying to move up, making sure she did everything right, and now she doesn't care as much anymore. It happens to all of us. Sooner or later you will be in this same position as her and will see some new hot shot come in thinking to himself he's better than you. It's the cycle of life in the work place remember that.

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

I really don't care what happens, but just had to comment on the sheer stupidity of this guy. 28 years old ragging on a 23 yr old. Age doesn't matter but it shows the hypocrisy.

Let me tell you, the one thing I learned as I grow older is that if I should've trusted my gut more and stood up for myself more.

Sure you can put your head down like the other sheep and take the ass fvcking like a little b1tch, but when you have a family, hell when you're alone looking at yourself in the mirror will you respect that?

I've had 3 jobs, first one was great and I moved onto bigger better things. At this 2nd job I was also the youngest, but clearly the smartest. Everyone recognized this including the boss. Why? because even though a senior jealous fvck started sh1t with me I stood my ground, fought back tooth for tooth and my boss saw that I was the one in the right.

If my boss did NOT see that I was in the right when I knew I was, I would've quit and found another job.

Anyways after that I moved onto bigger and better things sagain and now at my 3rd job I'm the boss man. I see some people just cower to the bullies, it's sad to watch. When other dept heads come to sh1t on me I take their sh1t and shove it down their throats in front of my people and they respect me for it. LEADERS do not become leaders by hiding and cowering. They become leaders by LEADING because if you can't even stand up for yourslef how do you expect to stand up for those you lead? How can you expect them to respect you and follow a spineless pvssy? You can't.

You did the right thing, remained calm. Stand your ground and if yuo'reright you're right. If youre wrong, owe up to it and correct it in the future. There are sh1tbags like your supervisor everywhere, but most will appreciate someone with balls and a spine. it's rare these days.

I have every right to come here and tell it like it REALLY is, because when I was OP's age, I was a Corporal in the Marine Corps leading scared-sh!tless 19 year old PFCs into combat. Do NOT even pretend that you have any idea what courage and leadership are, unless you have done the same.

When I was young and stupid, I thought leadership was about being the boss, calling the shots, and not taking sh!t from anybody.

But my experiences in the war gave me a helluva education. In truth, the leader is the one who takes ALL the sh!t; that's why they call it "the burden of command" not "the egotistical mental jerk off session of command." A true leader is someone who's subordinates would say "Wow I wouldn't want his job, but I respect the hell out of him for doing it."

Maybe your brand of bs is what passes for leadership at your pvssy office building, but my Marine Corps would burn that sh!t right out of you.

 

[mustfirstregister]

Wow this must be a manufacturing place or a sweat shop you work for. I have never heard people yelling out loud in my office.

 

[AAAgent]

I have every right to come here and tell it like it REALLY is, because when I was OP's age, I was a Corporal in the Marine Corps leading scared-sh!tless 19 year old PFCs into combat. Do NOT even pretend that you have any idea what courage and leadership are, unless you have done the same.

When I was young and stupid, I thought leadership was about being the boss, calling the shots, and not taking sh!t from anybody.

But my experiences in the war gave me a helluva education. In truth, the leader is the one who takes ALL the sh!t; that's why they call it "the burden of command" not "the egotistical mental jerk off session of command." A true leader is someone who's subordinates would say "Wow I wouldn't want his job, but I respect the hell out of him for doing it."

Maybe your brand of bs is what passes for leadership at your pvssy office building, but my Marine Corps would burn that sh!t right out of you.

Just to clarify, i wasn't act like my seniors boss. I also wasn't calling any shots or acting like i don't take sh1t from anybody. I just didn't take her disrespectful behavior which you may disagree with.

She's yelled at me many times and my other junior analysts. She is the other senior to do so. We haven't had any disrespectful or b1tchy behavior from any of the others but still i felt since she was my senior i should listen and just do my job and do my best to give her no reasons to b1tch. I would have kept acting like this if she was jus sending me b1tchy emails and such and kept it normal. (in the military its not out of the ordinary to get yelled at publicly)

It isn't normal everywhere else and i didn't appreciate the fact that she always b1tches for things we do when she never showed us in the first place. So when she stood up and yelled at me and said "I told you this already." when my co-worker has the specific email that was ONLY sent to her i don't appreciate you telling a lie and blaming me for a mistake saying i've made it more than once and you've told me, when in fact its the opposite.

Disrespect varies in everyplace you go to, if i was in the military i would have taken the yelling because its done to everyone, now if i was smacked in the face.... sorry i probably would take it quietly. Military life is different from civilian life as well.

So no Julius, I don't have it figure out but what i do know is:

1.) If you teach me something i should know it.

2.) If i make a mistake in something you taught me, it is my fault and i will admit to it and correct it.

3.) sometimes there is constructive criticism that is more verbally abusive but i try to take it for what it really is. Constructive criticism.

4.) There is a difference between constructive criticism and disrespect.

 

[kingsam]

I don't know if i'm smarter than the senior but i know alot of the things my senior says is wrong.

dude you need to read "how to win firends and influence people"

contains such information as how to tell people they are wrong without insulting them....stuff like that...very valuable

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

Hey OP, my last post was directed at the other guy, not you.

But despite me going Gunny Highway on your a$$, you have displayed poise and restraint in your responses.

 

[Desert Fox]

I have every right to come here and tell it like it REALLY is, because when I was OP's age, I was a Corporal in the Marine Corps leading scared-sh!tless 19 year old PFCs into combat. Do NOT even pretend that you have any idea what courage and leadership are, unless you have done the same.

When I was young and stupid, I thought leadership was about being the boss, calling the shots, and not taking sh!t from anybody.

But my experiences in the war gave me a helluva education. In truth, the leader is the one who takes ALL the sh!t; that's why they call it "the burden of command" not "the egotistical mental jerk off session of command." A true leader is someone who's subordinates would say "Wow I wouldn't want his job, but I respect the hell out of him for doing it."

Maybe your brand of bs is what passes for leadership at your pvssy office building, but my Marine Corps would burn that sh!t right out of you.

Dude, just because you were in the military doesn't mean you're better than everyone else and it is the end-all be-all ruler for leadership.

Based on your words if someone pins a murder on you, you should just stfu and take it and go to prison. Based on your logic even if your boss if caught with drugs you should step up and say "oh no it was mine, fvck me up the ass instead." Give me a ****in break, it's ridiculous.

In this guy's situation he is abused by co-worker senior for something that wasn't his fault. You are telling him to take the fall for that.

The difference between you and me is I understand responsibility differently from you:

To me, responsibility is taking ownership of something you are responsible for: good or bad. So it follows, if you are a leader, you lead those you are in charge of and the ultimate responsibility lies with you. In my dept if someone fvcks up they are to blame, but I take responsibility because I should've managed better.

HOWEVER, if you have a SENIOR that they drop the fvcking ball, it's not leadership to take the fall for them. There's another word for that, it's called stupidity, and being a doormat. If someone like my boss fvcks up I'm not going to go save his ass because it has nothing to do with me. And don't think for a second people will recognize that as leadership. In the business world everyone in management is a ****ing wolf and they'll use you as the scape goat every time. There is no honor is business like the military. Your average civilian does not have shame for backstabbing their neighbor.

 

[synergy1]

someone mentioned it already, but I can also attest to the value of covering your own ass. Regardless of how idiotic bossses may be, they hold the cards and can make your life hell - let them hang themselves by managing people poorly. If you have an email trail that clearly exonerates you, repeated patterns will eventually gain the attention of higher ups.

When I was managing my first project, I would send out weekly status updates with action items I held others accountable for. We needed the project manager in the UK to sign our protocols and each week, it was an action item he never got too. If **** hit the fan , I could have shown 10 emails clearly stating that his end of the bargain wasn't held up for weeks on end. Did I cry like a baby, point fingers? no, just kept moving the project forward within my own control. Eventually it all got done successfully, no feelings were hurt and the product was released on time. Everyone wins!

People in charge have a lot of crap on their plate and have to deal with a ton of people. Stuff is going to get forgotten, and tempers will flare up. it sounds like you are proving your competence and handling everything diligently which was the right move.

 

[Kailex]

If all else fails AAAgent, just remember to do this:

- Hit the gym
- Spin more plates
- Neg-hit your senior co-worker
- Read the DJ Bible

It won't fail.





Just kidding. (Couldn't resist)

 

[AAAgent]

roger that.