Getting that "Perfect" body.

[Contender]

I want to lose fat, and gain muscle mass.

Now, I understand that it takes a lot of dedication. I'm willing to dedicate a few hours at the gym, daily if necessary.

What routine must I follow to lose fat, and gain lean-muscle mass?

I stand at 5' 9'' and weigh 155 lb. My body fat is definately under 18%. I can see my abs on certain days, and some days, it's just fat - for some reason; but regardless of the day, I have to suck up my stomach to look decent.

I want to have ripped abs; visibly strong pecs, biceps, triceps, legs, back, shoulders, etc, with a body fat level below 9%.

Please give me a hand. I'm on path of physical and mental improvement. I'm just asking for assistance in the physical aspect of it.

 

[Warboss Alex]

okay, first of all don't think in numbers.. 9% is very optimistic but you can look like a million bucks at 10-12%. some guys look better at higher bodyfats, so get that out of your mind. what's more at your current weight you should NOT be thinking about having abs. they will come in time but you should concentrate on putting on 50lbs of muscle first. what's the point of being cut up if there's nothing to show under it?

what we gotta do is steadily recomp, lose fat and build muscle. if you really want to get down to single digits then that won't come easy and we'll have to be very precise with the diet so you don't lose muscle getting down there. but that's in the future.

for now let's see what you're currently doing. no offence but typing up the same info again and again gets tiring, so if you're on the right track already I'd rather just post tweaks rather than the whole hog.

so let's have diet and training specifics then.

 

[Warboss Alex]

what I'd like to see, on this board, is for guys to forget about having abs and just concentrate on bulldozing their way up to big squats, deadlifts, incline benches, rows, military presses, chins and dips.

IF they do it properly then bodyfat will melt away in the process without a whole lotta effort.

people who concentrate on staying ripped gain 1-2 lbs a year. great, five years down the line you're 10lbs heavier. whoop-dee-doo.

 

[Fitch]

Wait, so by Bulking, you can subsequently lose fat?

 

[Contender]

okay, first of all don't think in numbers.. 9% is very optimistic but you can look like a million bucks at 10-12%. some guys look better at higher bodyfats, so get that out of your mind. what's more at your current weight you should NOT be thinking about having abs. they will come in time but you should concentrate on putting on 50lbs of muscle first. what's the point of being cut up if there's nothing to show under it?

what we gotta do is steadily recomp, lose fat and build muscle. if you really want to get down to single digits then that won't come easy and we'll have to be very precise with the diet so you don't lose muscle getting down there. but that's in the future.

for now let's see what you're currently doing. no offence but typing up the same info again and again gets tiring, so if you're on the right track already I'd rather just post tweaks rather than the whole hog.

so let's have diet and training specifics then.

So, in order to attain my goal, I need to continue bulking for a little while, before I cut? So, like, until I gain an additional 40 pounds in muscle mass, focus on bulking?

For now, I'm doing a basic three-day split; once in college, I will break that down to a five day workout - maybe, four for R&R.

Day 1

Flat Bench Press (Bar, or dumbells?)
Decline Bench Press (Bar, or dumbells?)
Tri-Push downs (or Skull Crushers?)
Bent over rows (barbell)
Cable Scarecrows (or Bent-over dumbell rear dealt flyes)
Weighted Crunches - w/ medicine ball?

Day 2

Squats
Lunges
Leg Curls
deadlift
Crunches

Day 3

Benchpress
Tripush down (or skull crusher?)
Chin-up or pull-up
Shoulder Press
preacher curls
"Abs Circut Training"

How's that for now?

I was thinking of throwing in some cardio - like swimming.

what I'd like to see, on this board, is for guys to forget about having abs and just concentrate on bulldozing their way up to big squats, deadlifts, incline benches, rows, military presses, chins and dips.

IF they do it properly then bodyfat will melt away in the process without a whole lotta effort.

people who concentrate on staying ripped gain 1-2 lbs a year. great, five years down the line you're 10lbs heavier. whoop-dee-doo.

I never knew it worked like that; I'm as surprised as the above poster (Edit: Fitch). Okay, Alex, you have my full attention. I won't worry about my body fat level, or the visibility of my abdominal muscles. I'll focus on the bigger picture; and do everything properly.

I will eat right (how do I eat right, exactly) and workout regularly.

 

[Warboss Alex]

no no no. I don't agree with the concept of bulking (gaining weight and accepting fat gain) or cutting (a period of caloric deprivation in which strength gains are virtually non-existent and thus catabolism is a probability).

unless you compete you should not forsake one for the other, you should follow a regime which allows you to do both at a comfortable pace - or at least, to gain weight while maintaining bodyfat. this is unless you compete - if you are a competitor then yes, to have success you have to gain a substantial amount of muscle mass, to the extent that some fat gain is inevitable, unless you have a trainer/diet that is absolutely spot on (or you use drugs).

for the other 95% of lifters (in which I place myself) there's no need to go on bulking and cutting cycles. if you bulk for six months and cut for six months you might as well not have lifted the second half of the year - your time was wasted in the gym. if I don't go into the gym and make some sort of progress strength-wise, even if it's a rep, even if it's 0.5lb more weight on the bar, hell even if it's better form, it's a wasted workout (obviously this doesn't apply to deloading or rest weeks when your aim is not to get stronger but rather keep the body machinery going).

if you gain muscle intelligently, i.e. by eating a truckload of fairly clean calories (I didn't say it had to be 100% clean, I'm not talking tuna and brown rice here), training slag heavy (to keep the body adapting by getting bigger), but also being sensible with carbs and cardio (how much of each you require is individual) you can gain muscle while keeping bodyfat away, and over time the increased metabolism through the training, cardio, diet, etc will help you lean down. once you've found your sweet spot do a little tweaking (carb cycling, more cardio, maybe thermos) your bodyfat will drop off while the gains keep coming.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Contender, your routine isn't the worst I've seen but here's a better one:

squats 2 x 5
squats 1 x 20
weighted situps 2 x 10-20
stiff leg good mornings or stiff leg deadlifts 2 x 10-20
some lower back exercise like pullthroughs, reverse hypers, ghr, back extension etc 2 x 10-20 (machine is fine)
calves however you want, the squats will make them grow

incline bb or db bench 2 x 5
close grip bench 2 x 8-10
skullcrushers 2 x 10-15 or dips 2 x 8
shoulder press of some sort 2 x 8-12

deadlifts 2 x 5 or 1 x 10
weighted situps 2 x 10-20
row variation 2 x 8
pullups or pulldowns 2 x 8
some curl 2 x 8-10
some forearm exercise 1 x 10-30

 

[Contender]

no no no. I don't agree with the concept of bulking (gaining weight and accepting fat gain) or cutting (a period of caloric deprivation in which strength gains are virtually non-existent and thus catabolism is a probability).

unless you compete you should not forsake one for the other, you should follow a regime which allows you to do both at a comfortable pace - or at least, to gain weight while maintaining bodyfat. this is unless you compete - if you are a competitor then yes, to have success you have to gain a substantial amount of muscle mass, to the extent that some fat gain is inevitable, unless you have a trainer/diet that is absolutely spot on (or you use drugs).

for the other 95% of lifters (in which I place myself) there's no need to go on bulking and cutting cycles. if you bulk for six months and cut for six months you might as well not have lifted the second half of the year - your time was wasted in the gym. if I don't go into the gym and make some sort of progress strength-wise, even if it's a rep, even if it's 0.5lb more weight on the bar, hell even if it's better form, it's a wasted workout (obviously this doesn't apply to deloading or rest weeks when your aim is not to get stronger but rather keep the body machinery going).

if you gain muscle intelligently, i.e. by eating a truckload of fairly clean calories (I didn't say it had to be 100% clean, I'm not talking tuna and brown rice here), training slag heavy (to keep the body adapting by getting bigger), but also being sensible with carbs and cardio (how much of each you require is individual) you can gain muscle while keeping bodyfat away, and over time the increased metabolism through the training, cardio, diet, etc will help you lean down. once you've found your sweet spot do a little tweaking (carb cycling, more cardio, maybe thermos) your bodyfat will drop off while the gains keep coming.

That's really vague. What am I supposed to do? Just work out and eat properly, right?

How is my routine?

Should I add some cardio?

My goal is to intake about 300g of protein and 300g of carbs - approximately - according to DEISEL's guide.

 

[Warboss Alex]

see above for routine

what do you eat?

 

[Contender]

see above for routine

what do you eat?

Okay, thanks for the help.

Well, I drink four cups of whey protein per day - two scoops per every two cups. That's four scoops per day, with 22g of protein per scoop.

Then I eat a balanced diet of protein (tuna, skinless chicken, salmon, eggs) veggies (salad, fruits), and some carbs (rice, kasha, pasta).

And on top of that, I take multivitamins now, and fish oil tablets.

[Edit] In regards to the routine you posted for me... which number represents the "reps" and which number represents the "set." And, why did you repeat "squats" twice for day 1?

 

[Warboss Alex]

diet looks good if you're hitting the right numbers. throw in some beef though.

rows 2 x 8 -> 2 sets of 8 reps each.

re the squats, it's just how I wrote it. I want two hard sets of five then an absolutely brutal set of 20 with a lighter weight.

 

[Contender]

diet looks good if you're hitting the right numbers. throw in some beef though.

rows 2 x 8 -> 2 sets of 8 reps each.

re the squats, it's just how I wrote it. I want two hard sets of five then an absolutely brutal set of 20 with a lighter weight.

Okay, I'm set. Thanks!

Any recommendations as to how to assure I' hitting the "right numbers," in regard to my diet?

Should I take any thing else in addition to what I'm doing already?

 

[Warboss Alex]

Okay, I'm set. Thanks!

Any recommendations as to how to assure I' hitting the "right numbers," in regard to my diet?

Should I take any thing else in addition to what I'm doing already?

I mean, getting 2g protein (for you 300g protein is fine) and enough carbs/fats to grow. I can't give you a magic number here calorie-wise but if you're 155lb I'd say you should aim for 3000-3500kcal a day, more on workout days. it's a lot of food but you'll get used to it.

basically, 'hitting the right numbers' means that you're eating enough to put weight (muscle) on without getting fat. if you do get fat scale back your carbs a little. you have to experiment. post a journal here so we can track your progress.

edit: also, two gallons of water. supplement-wise whey, fish oil (5-10g a day) and a multivitamin is a GREAT start, I'd also add in a multimineral (if your multivitamin doesn't have minerals), extra vitamin c, calcium, and some form of antioxidants (green tea is good, it's also a thermogenic which helps keep the fat off).

 

[Contender]

I mean, getting 2g protein (for you 300g protein is fine) and enough carbs/fats to grow. I can't give you a magic number here calorie-wise but if you're 155lb I'd say you should aim for 3000-3500kcal a day, more on workout days. it's a lot of food but you'll get used to it.

basically, 'hitting the right numbers' means that you're eating enough to put weight (muscle) on without getting fat. if you do get fat scale back your carbs a little. you have to experiment. post a journal here so we can track your progress.

edit: also, two gallons of water. supplement-wise whey, fish oil (5-10g a day) and a multivitamin is a GREAT start, I'd also add in a multimineral (if your multivitamin doesn't have minerals), extra vitamin c, calcium, and some form of antioxidants (green tea is good, it's also a thermogenic which helps keep the fat off).

Those green tea pill extracts that you were talking about, or just a cup of tea?

I'll start a journal on Thursday, that encompasses my diet and workout routine.

 

[Shiftkey]

for now let's see what you're currently doing. no offence but typing up the same info again and again gets tiring, so if you're on the right track already I'd rather just post tweaks rather than the whole hog.

Have you considered writing up a detailed guide to be stickyed? Since you dissagree with DIESEL's guides and you know what you're talking about, it would help the community alot. Something adjustable to different body weights.

 

[Brian20o2]

squats 2 x 5
squats 1 x 20
weighted situps 2 x 10-20
stiff leg good mornings or stiff leg deadlifts 2 x 10-20
some lower back exercise like pullthroughs, reverse hypers, ghr, back extension etc 2 x 10-20 (machine is fine)
calves however you want, the squats will make them grow

incline bb or db bench 2 x 5
close grip bench 2 x 8-10
skullcrushers 2 x 10-15 or dips 2 x 8
shoulder press of some sort 2 x 8-12

deadlifts 2 x 5 or 1 x 10
weighted situps 2 x 10-20
row variation 2 x 8
pullups or pulldowns 2 x 8
some curl 2 x 8-10
some forearm exercise 1 x 10-30

Just wondering, but is this the routine you give to everyone? Seems you really like it. Is this what your routine looks like?

 

[Warboss Alex]

it's a variation of what I do depending on what I want to improve at the time. I did DC training a while back but I'm leaning towards the power side of things at the moment. I'm never going to compete in a bbing contest because well, I don't want to. however I'd like to do a powerlifting meet at some point so that's what I train for.

and yes, this is what I think everyone on this board should be doing - or something similar. the biggest natural guys you'll find are powerlifters. bodybuilders have a lot of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy ('the pump') which disappears after a week out of the gym. some bodybuilders you see on the street in normal clothes, you'd never tell they trained. but you can always recognise a powerlifter or strongman - dense muscles, big shoulders/traps, back as thick as a brickhouse.

no need to have a fancy routine, just the basics. you can change the sets and reps if you prefer but I'd keep all the big compounds in there. the truly effective routines are the simplest on paper - the less complicated something is, the more likely it is to succeed.

example: you can do side raises, front raises, rear delt raises and then do a 50-repper on a machine shoulder press with a light weight; I'd rather do a military or db press and work my way up to pressing my bodyweight or thereabouts. who's gonna get bigger shoulders quicker?

 

[Warboss Alex]

Have you considered writing up a detailed guide to be stickyed? Since you dissagree with DIESEL's guides and you know what you're talking about, it would help the community alot. Something adjustable to different body weights.

I've tried writing something like that but I always forget stuff. I'm a perfectionist so if something of my writing is gonna be stuck on a board somewhere near the top I'd like to be as comprehensive as possible.

but there's no secret to getting big: progressive overload, compound lifts, lots of food, water, protein, cardio and carb manipulation to avoid getting fat, that's about all there is to it.

EDIT: maybe if me and EFFORT and A-Unit and some other guys on here get together and try to write a joint guide then that's fine by me, I can have a section and write it to the best of my ability but I wouldn't take on such a job alone.. I wouldn't be satisfied with it.

 

[typical]

I think alot of people would like that, there are BB sites out there but they have way too much info to digest, from the two pms I've gotten from you Ive gained 4 kilos of muscle in 2 months, and most of my lifts have gone up buy 5-10 kilos.

I still hate having to wake up for early morning cardio though, but its keeping the fat off so its worth it. And still not used to eating so much feel very bloated by the end of the night but the funny thing is I'm starving by the time I wake up for a run.

 

[Warboss Alex]

I think alot of people would like that, there are BB sites out there but they have way too much info to digest, from the two pms I've gotten from you Ive gained 4 kilos of muscle in 2 months, and most of my lifts have gone up buy 5-10 kilos.

I still hate having to wake up for early morning cardio though, but its keeping the fat off so its worth it. And still not used to eating so much feel very bloated by the end of the night but the funny thing is I'm starving by the time I wake up for a run.

congrats man! 4kg is nearly 9lb in 8 weeks, that's more than a lb of weight gained a week - great going! that's exactly what I'm talking about. you're eating a shedload of food so your metabolism is fired up (you're starving in the morning) and the cardio only helps that. bloat is temporary, but check your bodyfat periodically to make sure it's not getting away from you..