Female Friends

[Colossus]

Insights and advantages to having female friends? Mostly fashion advice and social proof. I've found they know what looks better on me (apparently solid dark colors, plaids, and more fitted) and that they can talk you up seriously to their friends which makes it easier for the hook up. I would say at least half of my hookups have been through friends of my friends (and about 10% have been with friends haha). Sometimes they tell me what I'm doing wrong and right as well. Women friends tend to go alot deeper than male friends and if there's an inner game problem they will sniff it out very well.

Edit: Oh and you can't really understand women unless you spend alot of time with them. Reading forums and going to boot camps doesn't count. Nor do awkward, bumbling one night stands. Having friends is a valuable way to find out what definitely works and what doesn't. The most valuable definite I've learned is that there are no definites. However, I've learned patterns that are true more often not and what kind of women follow them. So I can recognize them easier because I've seen them before with my homegirlz.

That's what I'm sayin'. You gotta spend time with them. Most of the time, they will help you out. Unless they are into you then they will c0ckblock the sh!t out of you.

 

[Lexington]

Friends/allies can be useful regardless of their sex. It would be foolish to dismiss all potential female friends out of hand. Maybe you have a female coworker who can cover for you in certain circumstances. Maybe a female friend of yours can be the in you need to get a job or promotion you need.

Just make sure you don't catch feelings for them (which you shouldn't if you're doing it right anyway).

 

[Zunder]

Friends/allies can be useful regardless of their sex. It would be foolish to dismiss all potential female friends out of hand. Maybe you have a female coworker who can cover for you in certain circumstances. Maybe a female friend of yours can be the in you need to get a job or promotion you need.

Just make sure you don't catch feelings for them (which you shouldn't if you're doing it right anyway).

Thats an acquaintenance not a friend - huge difference.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Women have boyfriends and girlfriends. If you're not ƒucking her, you're her girlfriend.

 

[Colossus]

Here at SS we never oversimplify .

 

[Buddha_Mind]

Women have boyfriends and girlfriends. If you're not ƒucking her, you're her girlfriend.

By girlfriend, you must mean platonic friend. Because I am not a woman, and nor do I act like a woman.

I read your article Rollo, and you know sometimes I think you can be overly-harsh, but you also know I respect you for the ways you've reached out to me and because I believe ultimately, your heart is in the right place (trying to help frustrated males be less frustrated) -- and I know too SS helped you with some of your own internal battles.

I do think one of the comments on your article had a good denotation: a lot of this advice might be for the uniformed male.

These female-friends aren't the same in the ways I may have seen them, say three or five years ago.

I get the "jist" of some things these days; I get the dynamic of said male:female friendship + female boyfriend, there are boundaries, and again, these women aren't pursued sexually. Some of them just seem like genuinely good people, and honestly, beyond "girlfriend" role (as you put it in a rather purposeful emasculated form), I feel more like the big brother.

I don't have to debate on this forever--honestly, women are women, and even having them as friends, like I denoted, you have to deal with female-stuff.

Maybe some good practice and training and insight.

I agree with your article that there is a black and white caste in the idea -- "well, if we can't be friends, than we're enemies". I know from your references to some of your female co-workers, you don't perceive them as enemies.

But I do know there are lines of intimacy, in said friendship, that honestly I do not have with many females. There are things that my male-friends I can share with, simply because they are males, and they can better understand where I'm coming from.

Again this being said, let us, especially those NOT married, or NOT in an LTR to not underestimate the value of good people -- male or female -- and genuine connections, however they may present themselves.

Sometimes holding onto any idea too rigorously can be a dangerous thing, and prevent us from seeing greater truths.

I would be ignorant to say "no female friends", but I would be ignorant too, to not realize I am still dealing with a "woman".

Those with sisters may understand.

always the best,
--bm.

 

[HalfAddict]

People are people, there are ones you want to **** and ones you do not want to ****. There are differences between the genders obviously. There are women who can hold stimulating conversation, who you can be friends with. Just do not sleep with them for gods sake.

You just want to **** sluts, and so you meet dumb sluts. This is not hard to do as most women fit into this category.

I have a female friend we have BBQ's and **** all the time. I am harmless to her and she is harmless to me, you can bank on that one. I get what Buddah is saying about that big brother type role.

I have deflected douches for her and she has reflected grenades for me, she has however never directly **** blocked me. Her and her friends buy me drinks all the time, we have been through some rough **** together. We would have to be blackout drunk and on Charlie Sheen before we'd even hit first base. She'd fight a ***** for me. She threw me a ****in birthday party and got me chonged out of my gourd, she made the whole crew a badass thanksgiving day dinner too.

She is a worthy friend and I would not drop her for some woman just so I could stick my penis somewhere warm and dark.

I have a sister, she is a ****, I wish this chick was my sister.


Edit: This however is a compelling argument.

"This will result in a tendency for the original friend to filter your exposure to which of her girlfriends she finds the least threatening. You have to consider the balance between your value to her as another friend / orbiter against her endorsing you as a potential intimate for one of her girlfriends. " (I am not an orbiter, she tends to try to win my time a whole lot more than I do hers, it's like pulling teeth for her.)

I believe I have experienced this, so I will concede the **** blocking either on purpose or accident, probably on purpose.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

By girlfriend, you must mean platonic friend. Because I am not a woman, and nor do I act like a woman.

Read more carefully. I'm not calling you your girl-friend's bítch. It's not that you are consciously acting like a woman, it's that women use their template for same sex friendships with their oposite sex 'friends'. They don't experience, nor do they have a common frame of reference for a male friendship template.

Women will never make attempts to engage in their oposite sex friendships on a male frame – men must play friends in their world and on their template. That doesn't necessarily make you her bítch, but it does mean she approaches an opposite sex friendship from the same frame that she does with her girl-friends, thus making you a girl-friend.

What do you suppose is more common, men initiating a friendship with a woman or a woman initiating a friendship with a man?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_lh5fR4DMA

 

[Die Hard]

Buddha, I'd like you to be completely honest with yourself (remember: you're here for yourself, not to prove anything to other members!) and answer this question:

You know those moments when you suddenly feel horny and start jerking off? Well, imagine getting caught in the act by one of your female friends who happens to walk into your room at that very moment... You try to hide your c0ck and look at her all embarrassed, expecting her to run away in disgust. But instead, her eyes light up, she come closer and says in her most sexy way: "Hmmmmm, can I join in?" She grabs your c0ck and starts sucking it...

WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF THIS HAPPENED TO YOU?

Based on my own experiences, I predict you'd let at least 75% of your female friends finish what they started...

 

[Die Hard]

Double post

 

[samspade]

Die Hard makes a good point.

When I was in college and an AFC, I amassed a lot of female "friends." (And yes many of them became jerk-off subjects.)

When I started to learn game, I managed to bed a few of those friends. The others, I realized (even though I already knew deep down) would never be close confidants the way my good guy friends are. I distanced myself from them and focused on seducing new women.

Today, I suppose, you could call some of these women I know "friends." They're good people, married with kids in some cases. My wife has met them and gets along well with them. Nevertheless, the fact remains that it would never be acceptable for me to go out for a night on the town with one of them, just the two of us...just as I wouldn't let my wife do the same with a male "friend."

Even one close friend who is a lesbian - and where there is absolutely no mutual attraction - it would still be weird if we suddenly were spending a lot of time together as "friends."

You see this kind of dynamic pushed a lot in mass media. Sitcoms like The New Girl (and a previous TBS one, My Guys) wherein a cute young "tomboy" type moves in or pals around with guys, while she sorts out her dating life.

Even Seinfeld promoted Elaine as one of the guys - of course Jerry and Elaine dated early on in the series and he did address the issue better than others. But for the majority of that series, Elaine was basically a guy with boobs. It's a great way to get as many male AND female viewers as possible, but in real life, it's just not realistic. (Duh.)

 

[Tazman]

I have female "acquaintances", but not anything like reliable male friends. You can't expect that of them, nor is it satisfying in any way to have extensive conversations with them because they just don't think in the same rational way. I get more irritated then anything else, and not in the same way as when I'm arguing with a male friend, with them it gets really annoying.

I can bullsh-t and have non-sexual fun with them, but it's fleeting. The only mental challenge I get from them is trying to f-ck them.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

Read more carefully. I'm not calling you your girl-friend's bítch. It's not that you are consciously acting like a woman, it's that women use their template for same sex friendships with their oposite sex 'friends'. They don't experience, nor do they have a common frame of reference for a male friendship template.

Women will never make attempts to engage in their oposite sex friendships on a male frame – men must play friends in their world and on their template. That doesn't necessarily make you her bítch, but it does mean she approaches an opposite sex friendship from the same frame that she does with her girl-friends, thus making you a girl-friend.

What do you suppose is more common, men initiating a friendship with a woman or a woman initiating a friendship with a man?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_lh5fR4DMA

Interesting video.

I don't know if everything you are saying here is true. One of the female friends we have is more like a "guy" in the sense we don't and I don't, filter ourselves around her. We talk essentially or mostly the same.

DieHard -- Dude I honestly am not attracted to the women I am friends with. Honestly the idea of them even touching my penis is not very enticing.

The redhead at work I have a crush on...maybe a different story...but honestly I have no sexual interest in these women!

But I hear what people are putting down -- I do acknowledge there are difficulties in male:female friendships, ESPECIALLY when one party is involved in a relationship. I understand there are boundaries -- I understand people filter or distance themselves.

One prime example: Girl I work with is super cool -- I danced with her in town when I first got here and definitely felt her sexual attraction for me. However, she had been sexual with a friend of mine, I was turned off by this, was not interested in her. I none the less think she is a good person, very interesting thoughts, we have built a friendship. But she has recently gotten more serious with her boyfriend. Are there *real differences in behavior as her relationship has progressed?*

Yes of course.

Is it personsal?

No probably not at all.

There are differences in gender friendships I am not debating that in the slightest.

Do I sometimes say, "well what the **** is the point of this at all?" sure. But do these women sometimes surprise me by how they treat me, or suddenly some kind gesture given towards me? Definitely.

I am not a cold-hearted person and I don't want to be an @ss to some chick simply because she has a boyfriend -- and like I said, these girls do really nice things for sometimes.

Rollo you might be right about them trying to interact with you like a woman -- that's why you just can't let that happen -- you have to stand up in those moments that you are a muthafukin MAN -- more than anything I like to just make these women laugh.

There was a SS newsletter about being good with women...one of them denoted simply learning to love women for being women...not looking at the vicious examples in our own lives, or the negative experiences we've had, but rather just trying to embrace this **** rather than fight against it all of the time.

There are good points in this thread. Please don't misperceive my dialogue as any distaste for people on this site, rather I am always open to exploring new concepts and new ways of looking at things.

But you all may be right to some extent -- women definitely want to embrace male friendships, but truth, for most guys, their women friends are "crushes", and that just is a torturous sort of mentality to carry. Can never win that way.

I would advise people if they are going to have opposite gender friends, to keep certain understandings and boundaries in place -- people are just weird in general honestly -- and don't take distance or weird vibes personally. First of all women are lunatics half the time, secondly, any sort of romantic/sexual interest of theirs does often create distance in these male:female relationships, which may speak something in itself.

 

[origin138]

I will usually keep a few female friends around under the stipulation that they do not see me as, or attempt to treat me as, an emotional tampon. Conversations are always a 1 to 1. If she starts mindlessly yammering about herself, her problems, her issues, her BF, w/e, I stop talking to her until she learns to be more considerate. If she doesn't learn, it ends.

Having female friends is great for keeping your plates in line I've noticed as well. Other women are always perceived as potential threats from what I've seen. Most women I date always want some sort of rundown of my female friends, especially if they show up on my phone or I take a call at some point in the evening. I usually stay as vague as possible. It gives the illusion more options are available than may or may not be.

I see no problem unless there are romantic feelings, then I personally find "being a friend" to be a massive insult. No thanks.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

Another thing I would note about that video that we watched is that these are all college-aged people. Doesn't this make some difference?

If you interviewed a bunch of 50 year olds or 60 year olds, what might they say?

 

[Atom Smasher]

This particular 50 year old would say that no, men and women can't be just friends.

We all know this to be true: The hot ones we have all at the very least mentally disrobed.

And the ugly/fat ones, we are repelled by the thought of mentally disrobing them and we expend willpower to avoid that. Since we are expending willpower to avoid thinking about their bodies, there is obviously an innate sexual component there even with girls we don't find attractive.

Every girl is sexually evaluated by us and then sorted into whatever mental compartments we have designed internally. If that ugly/fat girl were to turn hot overnight our "friendship" would be re-avaluated in a hearbeat, and she would be recatagorized. Sexuality is inescapable in how we regars females. We can somewhat freeze it in suspended animation though categorization, but just let her lose a few pounds or throw on some new lipstick, and the vetting process must once again take place.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

I guess female friendships just are what they are.

At the end of the day -- no matter who your friends are -- you only go to sleep with your own heart and mind and breathing sack of lungs.

Being self-reliant, is important. Not just fiscally, but emotionally, mentally.

There is something nice about female friends, in the sense there is feminine understanding/energy/whatever that is received.

But I don't think the comments in this thread are that far off -- there are boundaries, and really, most female:male relationships are probably more difficult than they are easy.

It takes a "dude-like" female, to make a better female-friend.

The super hot ones become a sexual distraction.

But if you can meter it, there may be some benefits -- her friends, or some of her energy too.

In the end, we have a penis, they have a vagina. It would be naive to not say this is a factor. 99% of men with hot female friends want to fvck them -- and maybe the other way around too. Maybe people at work interact with the opposite sex in a friendly way because it is more, or less, free attention -- pseudosexuality with defined boundaries -- maybe that's a nice thing for most people's egos. I imagine it is.

 

[Nutz]

This particular 50 year old would say that no, men and women can't be just friends.

We all know this to be true: The hot ones we have all at the very least mentally disrobed.

And the ugly/fat ones, we are repelled by the thought of mentally disrobing them and we expend willpower to avoid that. Since we are expending willpower to avoid thinking about their bodies, there is obviously an innate sexual component there even with girls we don't find attractive.

Every girl is sexually evaluated by us and then sorted into whatever mental compartments we have designed internally. If that ugly/fat girl were to turn hot overnight our "friendship" would be re-avaluated in a hearbeat, and she would be recatagorized. Sexuality is inescapable in how we regars females. We can somewhat freeze it in suspended animation though categorization, but just let her lose a few pounds or throw on some new lipstick, and the vetting process must once again take place.

Completely agree, men and women cannot be "just friends"....so long as one has even an inkling of attraction towards the other. Women think they can, but often times they're ignorant of "orbiters" or simply choose to dismiss this as a reality for some reason. The following video makes a good point, guy after guy say no while girl after another says yes. Then he catches them on their doubletalk when he gets the women to recognize the guys would indeed have sex with them and they just laugh because they have no other way of rectifying their chick logic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_lh5fR4DMA

 

[Desdinova]

I have many female friends. The really good ones are usually some by-product of one of my relationships, such as my ex-wife's ex-best friend or an ex-gf's sister, things like that. I do have some female friends who don't have any ties like this, some of them I wouldn't have a problem becoming sexually involved with if the circumstances arose. I know better than to become emotionally invested in a woman who does not have that sexual attraction toward me.

On this subject, I'd have to say that I have more female friends than male friends. Why? Because women run the show when they become involved in a relationship. Most of my guy friends put their ba11s in their gf's hands. They become more flaky than a 19 year old woman who can't commit to a date, and they almost completely disappear... until they break up. Either she doesn't let him do the things he wants anymore, or he so concerned about keeping her happy that he doesn't do things that she remotely questions, like hanging out with me

Now, when a female friend becomes involved in a relationship, she stands up for her friendship with her guy friends. He avoids pissing her off by not mentioning that he hates your guts for being her buddy, and she gets to keep her friendship with you because SHE is the one who wears the pants in the relationship.

And on learning things from women, I generally don't learn 5hit from conversing with them. I learn from their actions. However, it still doesn't prevent you from having great conversations with them nor having a good laugh with them. That's what a friendship is about - having a good time with that person.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

Update on this too--(updating a few threads today):

Female roommate is moving out. Honestly it is hard to have a roommate who is a woman and who has her own slew of mental issues. Like dealing with the BS of a relationship sometimes without ANY benefit sexually.

IDK -- I am still on the fence about this -- I thought female friendships would be Cool and I could Deal; but just isn't seeming to be so. Sorta weird. I mean I get some emotional/mental support from them...but at the end of the day I still feel like they are ****blocking...

I still just don't think I can have a genuine female:male friendship.

I thought I could -- I've argued for it -- but lately, blehhh...

One example of female branchswinging...even not in regards to relationship...but example is female roommate had worked weeks in advance to find a subleasee without telling any of us until only AFTER she secured it, "by the way I'm moving out and this guy is moving in"...

Just seemed like a CLASSIC woman move to totally keep you in the dark and last minute say, 'BTW--Everything Has Changed".

At least as a male, I express my pissed-offedness in the moment--I express things in the moment. I don't sit there and plan and prep my exit...

Women do.

Perhaps they are scared of conflict? This is an easier way out?

Anyways, glad to have males around me despite would rather live alone but right now $-wise it's just an added burden.

Female friends...IDK...just seems like if I was to find a good relationship they might be a threat...would they encourage it? c0ckblock it?

Bleh. Fvck it.