Feeling like a lost cause - another perfect date turned sour

[Jariel]

Once again I'm left feeling confused and hopeless. It's the same story with me every time. I meet a girl I like, her interest is scolding hot, everything goes flawlessly, then out of nowhere she loses interest.

The most recent case, I met a girl while at work. She showed a lot of interest and volunteered her number. We exchanged texts and chatted on the phone and really seemed to click, so we met for a drink. We had amazing chemistry, her interest was very high and she seemed so warm and affectionate. We kissed and she cuddled upto me as I walked her to her car. The following week she continued texting me with even higher interest, talking about how excited she was to see me again and invited me for a cosy night in at her house.

The second date was even better than the first. We kissed and cuddled up on the couch, conversation flowed easily, interest was high and she invited me to stay the night. She suggested she wasn't ready to have sex, but we cuddled up in bed, talked, listened to music. We started kissing and it escalated, and we ended up having wild sex through the night. She climaxed many times and was most definitely satisfied. She even dressed up for me. We went to sleep spooning and I felt her kiss me a couple of times through the night. I woke up with her lying on my chest, with her arms wrapped round me.

I had to leave early that morning, but we kissed goodbye and all was good. She text me later to say she'd really like to see me again the following week. We exchanged a few texts later, then the next day she sent me a rejection. She explained how she was not ready to share her life with someone...well, you know the typical rejection speeches.

I really liked this girl so it was a painful one. Rejection is a hard enough thing to deal with, but when it keeps on happening so suddenly with no evident reason, it really leaves me feeling hopeless. It's not like these girls start with low interest - it's usually very high IL to nothing, literally overnight.

No matter what I do, I can’t break out of this cycle. I've tried adapting, self improvement, playing cool, being a jerk, being romantic, you name it. My confidence is at an all time high, I'm in great shape and attract a lot of women. Every time I think I’ve got it right, I end up back at square one wondering what is wrong with me.

I would say maybe I just have no long term appeal. Maybe I'm just the sort of guy women see as a sex object, and yet there are many women I'm not that into who do want me for more and will often pursue me obsessively.

I've been playing the field for the past 2 years, had fvck buddies and dated a lot of women, but I've reached a point where I want more than that. I'm just totally lost and feel like sh!t right now.

 

[Htienvu]

From what you've told us it's hard to explain why she might have lost interest so suddenly, but hey! It's women. Best thing you could do right now is get up, dust yourself down and carry on doing what you're doing. It's nothing to do with you, it's her lost. There're plenty more out there whom are good look and suitable for you.

If you do have to reply to her then tell her it's cool, nothing to worry about. Don't break down over her, show her it doesn't effect you one bit because you're a GREAT CATCH!

 

[Jariel]

Thanks mate. I have date lined up tomorrow evening with a real hottie, so already looking to move forward.

Like you said, I did text her back saying it was no problem and I had a fun night. I realise there's nothing I can do to change her mind and I'd rather end it on a positive note. It was a great experience and a fond memory for the mental album, if nothing else.

There was something about her rejection that troubles me. She told me I'm a real gentleman and a sweetheart. She said it in a positive context, but instinct tells me those words are somewhat emasculating and may suggest I was too much of a nice guy.

On one hand, that's true. I was polite, respectful and affectionate with her. On the other hand, I treated her like my b1tch during sex and was far from nice there.

 

[st_99]

Do you think you may be attracted to women that are wrong for you? Women that are just not into "normal" guys who do "normal" loving things because they have issues?

Sometimes I feel like that is my problem and I don't even realize it. Just a thought, your post hits home for me because I feel the same exact way you do. We all know of normal pretty girls who we say "what the hell are you doing with that guy?" and they
always seem to end up in bad relationships, well maybe I am or you are the male version of that? Which is why we
never seem to be attracted to the girls that are attracted to us.

IDK, I don't even really believe what I'm writing.. maybe its just some master plan of the universe and we'll get to where
we want to be with women when the time is right.

 

[Serg897]

Its hard to speculate, there are many possibilities, but I have a hunch that sometimes going heavy on the romanticism early on might actually scare some women off. There is really nothing much you can do about this actually - you know what kind of person you are and what sort of relationship you are looking for, and if the guy that she is going to continue going back to is a guy that is completely closed off emotionally, doesn't care about her and treats her like dirt, maybe this isn't the girl you want to be with anyway.

However at the same time its possible that you made your desire for her too evident in the first two dates, and thus were not enough of a challenge. Only you can make this determination.

There is also the possibility that she had another guy in the mix, maybe even a guy she had been seeing for longer and was nearly monogamous with, and simply chose him over you.

I once went on a spectacular first date with a woman that I thought ended very well, only to have her reject for follow up dates with a "lets just be friends" line. Then several weeks later I see her out clearly with another dude.

Oh well, at least you gave her the hot beef injection and it was fun while it lasted. Thats what its all about, and all relationships end wether they are short or long. Have fun on your next date.

 

[OnTheWayUp]

Once again I'm left feeling confused and hopeless. It's the same story with me every time. I meet a girl I like, her interest is scolding hot, everything goes flawlessly, then out of nowhere she loses interest.

I feel your pain man, I've been going through exactly the same problem recently. A girl really likes me, we have a great date or few dates and the sex is awesome, then out of nowhere her IL dissipates. See my thread: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=189816

I've been playing the field for the past 2 years, had fvck buddies and dated a lot of women, but I've reached a point where I want more than that. I'm just totally lost and feel like sh!t right now.

I wonder if this is our problem. I have also dated a lot of women over the last 18 months or so. I think I'm up to around 50, about half of whom I've at least made out with. I'm also looking for something a little more serious now, mainly because of work commitments preventing me from going out as much as I'd like to and wanting to try something new. Perhaps we're putting out the relationship vibe too early? This chimes in with what you say here:

There was something about her rejection that troubles me. She told me I'm a real gentleman and a sweetheart. She said it in a positive context, but instinct tells me those words are somewhat emasculating and may suggest I was too much of a nice guy.

Just a thought.

 

[JonJaper]

OP, don't be so hard on yourself.

I don't think it's your fault.

Maybe you fell in too deep, got attached too quickly or you were too much of a nice guy etc but it sounds like SHE is the one with issues. It's likely she got hurt in a previous relationship and now has commitment issues.

Don't fall into the trap of overanalysing things, blaming yourself 24/7, thinking you're not good enough and beating yourself up about it. Improve yourself because it makes you happy, not because of a fear of inadequacy.

 

[Jariel]

st 99: I'm glad someone can relate. I have wondered that same thing myself. In the past,yes, I definitely think I've gone for the wrong type - namely attention wh0res. But I avoid girls like that these days.

The girls I've grown to like tend to be girls who seem right for me, who seem normal, affectionate, easy to talk to and just really decent girls - the type I could introduce to my friends and family.

The past dates I've been on, I've just been myself, been relaxed and natural. As I say, the dates themselves go perfectly. It's a day or two afterwards they lose interest. This latest girl told me she'd been up all night thinking about whether it's what she wants, before reaching the conclusion she's not ready for someone in her life. It could be a white lie, it could be the truth, but her decision was made in the downtime after we parted ways.

Perhaps it's during this time that I blow it by sending texts, expressing my interest to see them again. Perhaps they feel a bit overwhelmed and maybe I should use this period to play it cool and give them space. But once again, I'm just speculating and clutching at straws since I have nothing better to go on.

Maybe if I withheld my interest during this time they'd feel less inclined to make a yes or no decision.

 

[Jariel]

Thanks for the responses and the support guys.

However at the same time its possible that you made your desire for her too evident in the first two dates, and thus were not enough of a challenge. Only you can make this determination.

I think this is true upto a point. On one hand, the reason we had such good chemistry was because we were so affectionate towards each other, whereas dates where I've played it cool there has been nothing. Perhaps I needed to cool off a bit after our 2nd date.

There is also the possibility that she had another guy in the mix, maybe even a guy she had been seeing for longer and was nearly monogamous with, and simply chose him over you.

This is very often the case I know, but when we had sex it was painful for her and was clear she hadn't been with anyone for a while. She told me it had been a year.

Perhaps we're putting out the relationship vibe too early? This chimes in with what you say here:

I think this is very possible. It would explain why the girls I really like run a mile, while those I'm not bothered about end up stalking me. I never say anything that could indicate I'm seeking a relationship, but perhaps the way I treat them with affection or my high interest gives that vibe.

I don't think it's your fault.

Maybe you fell in too deep, got attached too quickly or you were too much of a nice guy etc but it sounds like SHE is the one with issues. It's likely she got hurt in a previous relationship and now has commitment issues.

Don't fall into the trap of overanalysing things, blaming yourself 24/7, thinking you're not good enough and beating yourself up about it. Improve yourself because it makes you happy, not because of a fear of inadequacy.

Thanks man. If it was a one off, I'd probably just shrug it off, but the paranoia comes from having it happen with EVERY girl I really like. Perhaps it is down to bad luck, finding the wrong women or the right women at the wrong time.

 

[st_99]

Thanks man. If it was a one off, I'd probably just shrug it off, but the paranoia comes from having it happen with EVERY girl I really like. Perhaps it is down to bad luck, finding the wrong women or the right women at the wrong time.

The last girl I really really liked I felt the paranoia set in also. We started off great, I was cool calm and things were seemingly great, had sex got too affectionate I think, then the paranoia set in quickly because I had a gut feeling this was going to end up like the rest of them and sure enough, I was right. I was so pissed. I just couldnt believe it, I was like "are you f*cking kidding me?" Why
can't one of these b*tches that I actually like get attached to ME instead of the other way around??

 

[Rubato]

I really liked this girl so it was a painful one. Rejection is a hard enough thing to deal with, but when it keeps on happening so suddenly with no evident reason, it really leaves me feeling hopeless. It's not like these girls start with low interest - it's usually very high IL to nothing, literally overnight.

As st_99, you may be attracted to the wrong type of girls. Look at your second to last sentence. This may run counter to what a lot of people in this community would say, but do you think the type of girl who is going to be a good FWB is also going to make a good LTR? Probably not, in her current state of maturation. I've been having a conversation with another member on this board recently about this very topic... how we get caught up in this PUA or whatever you want to call it lifestyle and start reaching some level of success with women. We realize that while we may not know everything in the world there is to know and may not be the best, we're able to generally pull when we need to and can deal with most of the contingencies that come up. We have learned to be men rather than boys.

However, the "target" oriented mindset that pervades a lot of this thinking focuses on the type of women who are going to be most receptive to easy lays. And while I do agree with what either Mystery or Strauss said that under the right conditions, just about any woman could potentially have an ONS, the reality is that's a very low probability scenario. Think about where you and most of the other guys on here are meeting women - bars and night clubs. Night game. And when you approach during the day, what kind of girls are you approaching? People who are probably dressed very sexily, who are visually telegraphing signals that they are a sexual entity. This is obviously all conjecture on my part about what type of women you've been going after, but if I'm right, do you think these are the best candidates for what you are now looking for?

A few months ago, my dad gave me a very good piece of advice. He had noticed how much everything about me had seemed to change after becoming heavily involved in this community. I was dressing completely different (not like a goth magician punk, but just very stylishly and sexily), I had lost 60 pounds, looked awesome, had a markedly different sense of self confidence... I was literally a new man. And he noticed this. He's a very wise man. And he asked me to consider for a minute given my level of success with women that I had probably learned whatever lessons I had set out to learn from "the community". Then he asked, as you think about the kind of woman you are looking to attract, do you represent the image of the ideal man she has in her head? He essentially quoted the essence of Pook when he said to stop worrying about finding the woman of your dreams... become the man who will attract that woman.

Spend some serious time considering what type of woman you are looking for and whether you are the man that would be most attractive to her. If there is a discrepancy, I think you know which one should change. I've read a lot of your posts on here and know you are a smart guy.

No matter what I do, I can’t break out of this cycle. I've tried adapting, self improvement, playing cool, being a jerk, being romantic, you name it. My confidence is at an all time high, I'm in great shape and attract a lot of women. Every time I think I’ve got it right, I end up back at square one wondering what is wrong with me.

See what I wrote above. You are describing PUA tactics here. Why not stop with these "tactics and techniques" ala... oh, today I will be the jerk. Or today I will be the romantic.

How about instead, today I will be Jariel. You have been here over 5 years. I'm sure you have learned enough to understand what it means to be a man, particularly given the successes you have had in the past. Enough with these cheap facades you are attempting to ornament yourself with. Do you really believe they are better than the real thing? And would you really want to find a woman who is attracted to an illusion of who you are rather than who you really are?

The idea of just being yourself doesn't work very well when you're an AFC because you are an AFC. It's like telling a broken CD player to just freaking play a CD. It needs repaired. Once it is repaired however, then it's very possible for the CD player to "just be itself" and play the CD. And so I would say to you, stop worrying about what you're projecting to the world unless you are not projecting your truest self.

I would say maybe I just have no long term appeal. Maybe I'm just the sort of guy women see as a sex object, and yet there are many women I'm not that into who do want me for more and will often pursue me obsessively.

Go back and read the piece of advice my dad gave me. If you really think this may be the case, then again, you should be able to figure out what you need to do.

Saying you have no long time belief is a very bad limiting belief. If it's true, it's something you have the agency to affect. If you could make the changes in yourself that brought you from being an AFC to having FWB's, why can't you also change this?

I can also relate very strongly to your last sentence. There is one particular girl I'm going to see tonight who probably sincerely loves me. She's an awesome girl, very pretty, and about to graduate with a doctorate in physical therapy. She's very successful, pretty much everything a guy would say he wants. And yet, I'm not all that attracted to her. And I don't know why. I'm much more attracted to severely messed up girls with emotional problems and tons of crap baggage, This is an issue I'm actively trying to work on in my own life and since you said that, I'm wondering if perhaps you can relate. I'd really like to be able to reciprocate the feelings the girl I'm seeing tonight has for me, and I can act like it sufficiently to maintain the relationship, but I can't make it real. It's very frustrating.

I've been playing the field for the past 2 years, had fvck buddies and dated a lot of women, but I've reached a point where I want more than that. I'm just totally lost and feel like sh!t right now

Jariel, consider where you were when you came here and where you have come. You have made serious progress. Do no discount that. Women today are messed up. I mean, seriously they are. This was also part of the conversation I was having with that guy on this board. It's not so hard to go out and find a girl to have sex with.. but when you start talking about having a meaningful LTR, things become totally different. Do not be so hard on yourself. It is good that you recognize you may need to step away from your situation and view it from a more holistic perspective since you are not getting the results you want. But rather than beat yourself up mercilessly because you are not achieving what you would like, focus that energy instead on figuring out what you can do to change so that you start getting the results you want.

Keep fighting brother. I hope this helps

 

[DJDamage]

As someone else said, it could be that when you are trying to be romantic early on you bring out the nice guy in you and this confuses the women who thought you were a badboy to the core and expected to be treated differently.

Be more aloof, be more dominant with them and use more C&F but leave the fluffy stuff (lets cuddle and talk about how feel about each other) out of the equation.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Jariel,

I think more aloofness might be the key for you. The in-between times are for her to feel anxiety about losing you and for her to talk herself into being "in love" with you. There is a risk of losing momentum, but if that is the case then she certainly would lose interest later on down the road anyway.

She "gave" herself to you and when she realized that she had you hook, line, and sinker, there was no reason for her to feel the anxiety of possible loss. It was then a fait accompli, and she got scared and ran because there was now solid definition, something tangible to be afraid of.

Women seem to love being in anxiety over the unkown, but they turn tail and run when something tangible and defined scares them. Just the opposite of us, of course.

 

[floydb25]

Are you sure you're not leaving anything out? Are you reciprocating their interest too soon? Like, they come on strong, so you get sucked in and start doing the same. You might not even realize youre doing it. Do you give off relationship vibes too soon? Not necessarily coming out and admitting your interest, but acting like you're a couple too soon. Not giving enough space or having life... Always texting back right away, agreeing to every date, always being available, never cutting things short, being too affectionate, staying over night, talking too much, spending too much time together... These all give off relationship vibes. So, they say they're not looking for one - because those are the vibes you're giving off. They wouldn't be saying it if you weren't.

The thing is, women come on strong because YOU aren't. When you reciprocate that, or no longer being a challenge (ie, being available too much), they lose that. They push for a relationship when you aren't. Or want to see you when you're not talking too them much. But then, when you start being more available and receptive, they lose interest. You might not even know you're doing it, because it feels natural, and like the right thing to do. As well, you assume its what they want - based on the vibes they're giving. But, they only give them when you're NOT doing these things... See how that works? Once you give in, they lose interest - even though they acted like they wanted it.

You have to force yourself to hold back. Challenge is ideal during the infatuation phase. You cannot give or show too much - even if it seems ok to do so. Pay attention to what you're doing when they show all this interest. THAT is what's attracting them. Then, when they lose it... What do you do? Probably respond too much, go on too many dates, hang out too much, etc. This is too much too soon. You gotta keep the challenge and mystery going for a while. Don't give in and start assuming things. Don't give them everything they THINK they want.

 

[st_99]

Are you reciprocating their interest too soon? Like, they come on strong, so you get sucked in and start doing the same

Good post, I know I've done this way too many times and failure ensued. Is this definitely the reason for lost interest? Maybe, maybe not but it cetainly will not help your cause.

I just have to look at myself and wonder when it is I started getting nutty, its when they show a lot of interest at first and then i sense them fading away. So I suppose it should work well in reverse.

 

[DJDamage]

The thing is, women come on strong because YOU aren't. When you reciprocate that, or no longer being a challenge (ie, being available too much), they lose that. They push for a relationship when you aren't. Or want to see you when you're not talking too them much. But then, when you start being more available and receptive, they lose interest. You might not even know you're doing it, because it feels natural, and like the right thing to do. As well, you assume its what they want - based on the vibes they're giving. But, they only give them when you're NOT doing these things... See how that works? Once you give in, they lose interest - even though they acted like they wanted it.

Excellent post.

 

[corrector]

Once again I'm left feeling confused and hopeless. It's the same story with me every time. I meet a girl I like, her interest is scolding hot, everything goes flawlessly, then out of nowhere she loses interest.

Maybe it's just a fling.

I had to leave early that morning, but we kissed goodbye and all was good. She text me later to say she'd really like to see me again the following week. We exchanged a few texts later, then the next day she sent me a rejection. She explained how she was not ready to share her life with someone...well, you know the typical rejection speeches.

How would you call that a rejection, she had sex with you? I think the term "rejection" should be left only to describe either a blow-off, "friendzoning", or stuff where you are emasculated. It's an abuse of the term used here. You could say she's not an LTR type and that is her personal decision not to want to have a long-term relationship.

I really liked this girl so it was a painful one. Rejection is a hard enough thing to deal with, but when it keeps on happening so suddenly with no evident reason, it really leaves me feeling hopeless. It's not like these girls start with low interest - it's usually very high IL to nothing, literally overnight.

But you had sex with her so that's high IL, right? Why are you blaming yourself for her personal decision? If this is a pattern, then you could choose not to have sex with women until you are married and that would put more pressure on them that they have to commit if they want to have sex.

Why do you think women want to have a "relationship" or some commitment before delivering the goods? It is because of the same issues here so why don't you do what women do and abstain until you are in a LTR?

I would say maybe I just have no long term appeal. Maybe I'm just the sort of guy women see as a sex object, and yet there are many women I'm not that into who do want me for more and will often pursue me obsessively.

Wow. You have women who are chasing you obsessively and you think you have a right to complain? Did you have sex with them too and then lose interest on them? You know that goes around comes around. You treat other girls badly, maybe that's why you can't get an LTR.

I've been playing the field for the past 2 years, had fvck buddies and dated a lot of women, but I've reached a point where I want more than that. I'm just totally lost and feel like sh!t right now.

If you've had FB's and dated allot of women and still feel totally lost and like sh1t after all of that then that doesn't speak much about all of this stuff you are doing then. You may as well just be an AFC and wait for the right girl, or have an oneitis -- sometimes ignorance is bliss, and sometimes taking the blue pill is better than the red-pill. Time to plug yourself back into the matrix.

 

[corrector]

Are you sure you're not leaving anything out? Are you reciprocating their interest too soon? Like, they come on strong, so you get sucked in and start doing the same. You might not even realize youre doing it. Do you give off relationship vibes too soon? Not necessarily coming out and admitting your interest, but acting like you're a couple too soon. Not giving enough space or having life... Always texting back right away, agreeing to every date, always being available, never cutting things short, being too affectionate, staying over night, talking too much, spending too much time together... These all give off relationship vibes. So, they say they're not looking for one - because those are the vibes you're giving off. They wouldn't be saying it if you weren't.

The thing is, women come on strong because YOU aren't. When you reciprocate that, or no longer being a challenge (ie, being available too much), they lose that. They push for a relationship when you aren't. Or want to see you when you're not talking too them much. But then, when you start being more available and receptive, they lose interest. You might not even know you're doing it, because it feels natural, and like the right thing to do. As well, you assume its what they want - based on the vibes they're giving. But, they only give them when you're NOT doing these things... See how that works? Once you give in, they lose interest - even though they acted like they wanted it.

You have to force yourself to hold back. Challenge is ideal during the infatuation phase. You cannot give or show too much - even if it seems ok to do so. Pay attention to what you're doing when they show all this interest. THAT is what's attracting them. Then, when they lose it... What do you do? Probably respond too much, go on too many dates, hang out too much, etc. This is too much too soon. You gotta keep the challenge and mystery going for a while. Don't give in and start assuming things. Don't give them everything they THINK they want.

He only texted to meet her the following week, I don't think it sounded like he was "obsessively" pursuing any girl. She could have just said she's busy rather than a speech. With the looks he has - he's probably turning them off in some way...maybe they think he's a player or something and is not taking him seriously for LTR.

If you read the Game by Neil Strauss then you see that even people like him with all their seduction skills don't meet the right girl after all of that and become a father and raise a family. This stuff just turns people into players, and when they meet the right women they turn back to AFCs and end up losing her in the long-run anyway...very unrealistic.

 

[Aaron B]

she picked up on how desperate you are to meet your "soulmate" and enter into a multi-year long-term relationship and it scared her off

you've got to keep it casual in the beginning. period. no matter how much you like her. no matter how "perfect" it is. casual.

its your job to keep it from getting too close too soon.

the man should push for the sex and the woman should push for the relationship. if you are pushing for the relationship she is going to wonder why a man like you who is willing to have a relationship isn't already in one. so by extension in her mind there is something wrong with you. yeah it makes no sense because its chick logic but its how they operate.

also she is aware that you don't know her well enough yet to determine that she is your soulmate and worthy of a LTR with you, but you are wanting that anyway. that communicates desperation to her. how can you know she's right for you when you don't even really know her yet?

make whatever woman you decide to bless with a long term relationship EARN IT.

if it has to be earned it has a high value. if its given freely it has none.

 

[corrector]

she picked up on how desperate you are to meet your "soulmate" and enter into a multi-year long-term relationship and it scared her off

Yeah, but she had sex with him. So, if what you are saying is true, and all he asked was to meet her again the following week...ff she really picked up on that then she wouldn't have sex with him in the first place.

Here, people always say that women avoid having sex with virgins because they may be clingy with them afterwards and sort of pick up on some desperation....so how is it she had sex with him then?

The only logical conclusion was the sex was very bad and he didn't really satisfy her, or she thinks of him as a player that is doing that to every girl, or maybe she really doesn't want anyone into her life.

you've got to keep it casual in the beginning. period. no matter how much you like her. no matter how "perfect" it is. casual.

its your job to keep it from getting too close too soon.

It's courtesy for him to call her after having sex with her - that's not desperation.

the man should push for the sex and the woman should push for the relationship. if you are pushing for the relationship she is going to wonder why a man like you who is willing to have a relationship isn't already in one. so by extension in her mind there is something wrong with you. yeah it makes no sense because its chick logic but its how they operate.

Okay, Mr. Aaron B -- so you are saying that the only girl that wants to have an LTR with Jariel has to be aware that Jariel is cheating on another women he has an LTR with and that makes her LTR material. Get off the crack.