failure to launch

[backbreaker]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/12/retreat-aims-at-young-men_n_1090061.html


my very first reaction was to launch into a tirade at reading this, but is there any truth to it just trying to be objective?


the only thing i do find misleading is the stat that "men are two times more likely to live at home then women" stat.. i would venture to say a large part of that is that because most attractive women are shacking up.

i can't count on one hand the amount of 22 year old females that live by themselves.

 

[Alex DeLarge]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/12/retreat-aims-at-young-men_n_1090061.html


my very first reaction was to launch into a tirade at reading this, but is there any truth to it just trying to be objective?


the only thing i do find misleading is the stat that "men are two times more likely to live at home then women" stat.. i would venture to say a large part of that is that because most attractive women are shacking up.

i can't count on one hand the amount of 22 year old females that live by themselves.

Most women can find a guy to shack up with and take care of them as long as they're not hideous looking. I believe that statistic completely. Men on the other hand can rarely find this for themselves.. I'd imagine you would have to be a super macho male model for this to even have probability lol. Or find a cougar.

 

[FairShake]

I was teaching EMT classes up until a couple years ago, mostly to 20-something men and women. It rings very true. While the men were physically superior to the women, organizationally, socially, and academically the women were superior on average. Too many men were all about drinking, messing around, fvcking, video games, etc. The women were usually early single mothers but still about their sh!t for the most part. Women often stumble after high school too, but they seem to be picking themselves up faster than guys.

 

[Jitterbug]

What are we launching those young men into? College debts and divorce death traps? lol

 

[zekko]

organizationally, socially, and academically the women were superior on average

Whaaat? How can that be? I thought women only ran on emotion and had little hamster brains that couldn't be trusted to perform any tasks where logic was involved?

The official pickup forum explanation is that girls are naturally good students, since they are natural followers and do well at being told what to do.

Too many men were all about drinking, messing around, fvcking, video games, etc.

Today's men are dropping the ball.

 

[sodbuster]

makes it easier for my sons to stand out

 

[Burroughs]

more b!tches for those who have **good** jobs.

 

[backbreaker]

i have a little time, the wife is gone out, the baby is knocked out.. and this post after letting it marinating for a mintue, i think i agree with this.

women aren't stupid. anyone who tells you otherwise is an idiot. my mother has a masters degree and is as smart as a whip. there is nothing that she can't do from a book smart standpoint if you sat down and showed her how to do it. helped me with my HS homework all though HS regardless of what i was doing, chemistry, AP calc.

i've dated too many women who i have seen when they apply themselves are just as smart as anyone else.


I can firmly believe, this article.

my question to the forum is this. why is it so easy for women to become women, yet it's so hard for men to become men?

women, have no problem becoming feminane, women. yes they have their issues, but they know what a woman is supposed to be and they become that, deposite all the reality TV shows, deposit all the ip hones and the jockying guys do for their time


why do men on avg, suck so ****ing bad in the sense that they don't "get it". WHY DON'T men try to become men?

are men really that ****ing afraid of women they never even try?

is it because society tells them they will never amount to **** anyway? is it because men are allowed to roam around the house well into their twenties (greatest thing my mom ever did in my life, kick me out when i was 18 lol, i hated it then, god i hated it, i love her for it today).

and you sit back and think about it, and you look at a man and you talk to him and you realize, most men, don't even aspire to become men. most men don't dream about antying other than watching football and hopeuflly ****ing a decent looking broad or two.

as much as i love my son, the day he's 18 he's gone lol. you are either going to sink or swim son lol. my dad's dad did it to him, my dad and mom did it to me.

i watch alot of animal shows. I like wildlife and joe my son is in the dinosoaur phase, and i actually like them too so we watch alot of stuff like that. Anyway, we were watching what was that show... walking with dinosaurs about 2-3 weeks ago, and there was this something, id on't knwo what the **** it was. it was big as **** whatever it was i remember that.

anyway, she had this baby. she faught off preadtors to pretect her baby the day it was born. this baby followed her around for 2 years, she taught him everything she knew.

she got pregnant again, and like 11 months later or whatever the hell, a few days bfeore she knew she was about to give birth, she woke up ande basically told the baby dinosour, who was like 3 at the time, look i don't know where you are going tubt you got to get the hell out of here. you aren't going to learn atying else from me, it's time for yoiu to go and do your thing. he didn't like it. he tired to come back and she shoed him off. he wondered off, got beat up, ran home to mom and mom, now with another baby, chased him off again and told him to GTFO.

i say that to day that... if you look at any animial in the wild, there is always that transiation period, where, life ****ing sucks. you miss the comforts of home. the easy food. the protection of a bigger parent from lifes issues. but the parent dinosour/tiger/lion/whatever, knows that , you have to go through that to learn on your own. there is only so much i can teach you.

men don't have that doay for the most part. in fact it's the exact opposite. men are coddled to the point where we go out of our way to prevent antying whatsoever negativie happening to them. we send them to college and send htem money. i know one guy, some what, that sends his like, 27 year old son 500 a month so he can pay bills so he "WON'T GET INTO DEBT". what kinda **** is that?

becuase men never go through that, learning how to beocme a pride leader, how to do things the right way, they never grow up.


I mean I look at my oneitis who brought me here, and while she had her issues, she had a ****ing plan and i'll be damned if she wasn't out the house for good at 23 years old and married at 25. i guess that's not that spectcular but she went to a local school and lived at home while in college and she didn't graduate college utnil she was 22 almost 23. she got a job the day she walked and moved out... with her fiancee lol but still.

why is it so easy for women to get life in general, to learn how to run a household, to actually get a household to run, to learn how to be a woman around a man, to learn how to cook, to learn how to dress like an adult, yet you have 25-26 30 year old dudes runinng around peacocking with black vans and black nails on and ****, living with room mates and with parents, can't cook **** and are proud of it and don't know anything about antying outside of how to play video games or college football?

 

[DanelMadr]

I certainly don't have definitive answers, however....on average...

Women are in time pressure to mature up more quickly due to fertility reasons.
Guys can fool around all they want.

Education is so demotivating for guys. To educate a guy is hard work. We get easily bored with repetitive tasks and no competition.

Then there is a lack of good options....blue collar is hard work and not that well paid with no social status (less chicks), other sectors are just too difficult to study. I remember my class...just about 25% went to study something like IT, engineering etc. The rest went for auto-mechanics. And very few for humanity studies.

But girls went for "office jobs" mostly. It is better paid than blue collar jobs, more so if you count in energy invested/spent in actual job.

I guess girls are more likely to don't mind education.
My university experience.....Girls study very hard but for sake of getting a degree, no passion for subject there. They don't actually understand the subject very much but they do all the homeworks, they know all the right answers from memory etc. Our education system favors that.

They overcome the lack of analytic thinking by shear force of memorizing everything.

Guys are not able to learn something if they don't understand it. And when we have no passion for subject we just don't bother that much.

Conclusion....girls are in general more of approval junkies....they love having As. They love to be on good terms with their teacher.

For guys having an education is far less important than being experts in something they like. If they know they can't be experts in robotics, they go for computer games or wh0ring. Why to study so hard to become an office monkey - a job you despise?

Todays world does not care so much about skills as it cares about degrees.
Demotivation ensues when HR employee with degree in Psychology earns the same money as lab rat, who is more important to company's profit making.

Todays world is opposite of why we evolved like we did. It favors sitting near cave all day, chatting with other females and occasionally picking blueberries or chew an animal skin. No opportunity for a hunter. All hunter-like jobs are badly paid.

Overall demotivation is to blame. Guys need stronger impulses to mature. This level of prosperity does not give it. Parents can easily afford to support them.

 

[Burroughs]

Todays world is opposite of why we evolved like we did. It favors sitting near cave all day, chatting with other females and occasionally picking blueberries or chew an animal skin. No opportunity for a hunter. All hunter-like jobs are badly paid.

.

Well said..and very true.

The exceptions of course are those men that go beyond the cave and become singular legends, famous writers, actors, rock stars, dave grohl, stephen king, steve jobs, etc. Loads of social proof, money, adulation.

This is however very hard and rare.

Its almost as though men make a judgement 'if I don't have the talent or luck or skill to be a rock star then I might as well just play Call of Duty and try to snag some poon at the local spot',

or

'why give effort into a society that doesn't give me what I want EASILY'

Very sad, its a recipe for idiocracy.

 

[FairShake]

A couple reasons I believe this to be true:

1.) The smartest people I've ever known have been overwhelmingly men. There are several women in there but they are less than a quarter of the people. However, the DUMBEST people I've ever known have also overwhelmingly been men with a similarly small percentage of women. When there is such a dichotomy I think that both points can be proven. Men are both smarter and dumber than women depending on which you are trying to prove at any particular moment. So in this case and most cases involving the great unwashed majority you will probably see the women outperforming the men nowadays. It's at the elite levels where we see more of the other side, and I don't travel in them all that often.

2.) Most of the younger women I know who were exemplary were FORCED to do so because of children. That is their built-in maturity ray that men don't have because we so often don't have to stick around to help raise them all that much. Maybe send money here or there or watch them on the weekends but that is half-assed maturing at best since the majority of your time is living for yourself.

 

[Tazman]

I certainly don't have definitive answers, however....on average...

Women are in time pressure to mature up more quickly due to fertility reasons.
Guys can fool around all they want.

Education is so demotivating for guys. To educate a guy is hard work. We get easily bored with repetitive tasks and no competition.

Then there is a lack of good options....blue collar is hard work and not that well paid with no social status (less chicks), other sectors are just too difficult to study. I remember my class...just about 25% went to study something like IT, engineering etc. The rest went for auto-mechanics. And very few for humanity studies.

But girls went for "office jobs" mostly. It is better paid than blue collar jobs, more so if you count in energy invested/spent in actual job.

I guess girls are more likely to don't mind education.
My university experience.....Girls study very hard but for sake of getting a degree, no passion for subject there. They don't actually understand the subject very much but they do all the homeworks, they know all the right answers from memory etc. Our education system favors that.

They overcome the lack of analytic thinking by shear force of memorizing everything.

Guys are not able to learn something if they don't understand it. And when we have no passion for subject we just don't bother that much.

Conclusion....girls are in general more of approval junkies....they love having As. They love to be on good terms with their teacher.

For guys having an education is far less important than being experts in something they like. If they know they can't be experts in robotics, they go for computer games or wh0ring. Why to study so hard to become an office monkey - a job you despise?

Todays world does not care so much about skills as it cares about degrees.
Demotivation ensues when HR employee with degree in Psychology earns the same money as lab rat, who is more important to company's profit making.

Todays world is opposite of why we evolved like we did. It favors sitting near cave all day, chatting with other females and occasionally picking blueberries or chew an animal skin. No opportunity for a hunter. All hunter-like jobs are badly paid.

Overall demotivation is to blame. Guys need stronger impulses to mature. This level of prosperity does not give it. Parents can easily afford to support them.

I can agree with a lot of this.

I have a sister and know a friend's wife who have earned masters degrees. Honestly, these women don't have any ability to analyze a topic or critically think about anything beyond the average person, male or female.

Obtaining a degree, in and of itself, isn't a measure of how intelligent you are. It can however, measure your ability to memorize and regurgitate information, it also shows a certain level of commitment and willingness to follow rules.

I quit college after 4 years even though I was close to finishing because I decided to pursue a different path I had already began. I didn't want to take a pay cut starting a new career and I didn't like the school, I felt like I could teach myself all this crap and it didn't seem useful to me outside of getting the piece of paper at the end.

I've been turned off of college degrees ever since. It's a money making business that puts a lot of people in debt (I'm not really blaming the institutions for this, but it is what it is).

However, if pursuing a job in the government is your thing, then that piece of paper may be all you need to get ahead, regardless of actual proven performance. I guess that's a another topic...

 

[DanelMadr]

Well said..and very true.

The exceptions of course are those men that go beyond the cave and become singular legends, famous writers, actors, rock stars, dave grohl, stephen king, steve jobs, etc. Loads of social proof, money, adulation.

This is however very hard and rare.

Its almost as though men make a judgement 'if I don't have the talent or luck or skill to be a rock star then I might as well just play Call of Duty and try to snag some poon at the local spot',

or

'why give effort into a society that doesn't give me what I want EASILY'

Very sad, its a recipe for idiocracy.

Unfortunately I think the high percentage of "idiots" is inevitable in current situation and it will get worse. What can save us is lower birth ratio. Which already happens in the west. However there is possibility that more "idiots" than smarter people will be born (theme of the movie Idiocracy).

To be entirely honest, I think that writers, CEOs, actors or whoever would give their left nut for a career in hunting. Inventing and organizing is fun but actual hunt is actual hunt. Few hours of Call of Duty gets me sparked like nothing else....when you don't count pub brawl

 

[DanelMadr]

A couple reasons I believe this to be true:

1.) The smartest people I've ever known have been overwhelmingly men. There are several women in there but they are less than a quarter of the people. However, the DUMBEST people I've ever known have also overwhelmingly been men with a similarly small percentage of women. When there is such a dichotomy I think that both points can be proven. Men are both smarter and dumber than women depending on which you are trying to prove at any particular moment. So in this case and most cases involving the great unwashed majority you will probably see the women outperforming the men nowadays. It's at the elite levels where we see more of the other side, and I don't travel in them all that often.

2.) Most of the younger women I know who were exemplary were FORCED to do so because of children. That is their built-in maturity ray that men don't have because we so often don't have to stick around to help raise them all that much. Maybe send money here or there or watch them on the weekends but that is half-assed maturing at best since the majority of your time is living for yourself.

I know what you mean.
When you give some "difficult task" to a dumb woman, she will screw it up but will be apologetic about it. Give it to a dumb men and he will get angry at you, making even bigger idiot of himself. That is certainly worse for the study or career.

 

[backbreaker]

lol that last post made me chuckle becuase it's somewhat true

I mean this doesn't put the entire human race into perspective but it reminds me of when i had my web development company and you would get a woman come in, and I mean, you had a few who had a clue as to what was going on, but most were pretty straightforward about how little they knew about what was goiung on, but they did know what they wanted.

I didn'[t particuarly care to deal with women to be honest, but not because they didn't know what they want. they knew 1. what they wanted and 2. they didn't know the best way to go about getting there, they knew what's why they hired me


I had this male client one day.. this is your avg stupid male who calls himself a "go getter"

guy, knows he can't build websites. yet wants to start a business building websites. he somehow, manages to get a client and she's willing to pay for the work she wants done.

the guy, not knowing php form his ass, does some research and decides social engine, is the platform that is the best for his client, even though the site that is being built, is simple membership site so that people can sign up and list businesses. not a site that requires social engine.

anyway, the guy tells me he is a graphic designer and he is going to send us the design files for a project. so i make a budget according to not doing any grahpic work, which is as clear as day and even put in the proposal as an ademendment that this proposal is based on the assumption that no graphic design work is required. he agrees, we start the project

not... 2 days after the project has started, he emails me and wants to see what i hve done with the social engine platform.. lol i'm like dude we can't do antyhing until you send us the graphic design work, so we can integrate it. you shoudl know this ****.

by now it's clear to me this dude has no clue as to what he is doing, so i say look, it's cleare you aren't going to do the graphic design work or can't whatever it is i don't care... and to keep the peice, even though you tried, i'm not even going to jack the price up on the project, i just want to get this done and out of my hair, so email me what the client is looking for grraphically and we will get it koncked out.

instead of admiiting he was wrong.. on 2 counts.. first he didn't do any grahpic design work as the proposal clearly stated he should have, and secondly, he had told his client we would be able to see an update on what is going on (which is why he was really mad) and he could not.. instead of admitting it was all his fault, he tires to get his money back because we "ripped him off" so he goes as far as to email the attorney general at which point i sent the 30 page proposal highlighting the laid out job description of what we were going to do, as well as his responses, in which they basically told him to STFU and either send me the design or pay me accordingly.


the guy, still not wanting to admit he was wrong on any account, goes to yelp and everyone else spouting the same ****, about how how he got used and ripped off. by now he has convinced himself he has done no wrong at all.

and i mean, we are talking about what... 400 bucks. i carry around more money than that, i could have very easily sent him his money back and not blinked an eye, but it's the principle of the matter. dudes like that piss me off to no end, just idiots.


that is the difference between a stupid man and a stupid woman. a stupid man will not admit he is stupid

 

[Mark1234]

Backbreaker,

That scenario reminded me of something I read in "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie. In one of the chapters he states that people are naturally very prideful and when they are told something they've done is wrong, even if they know it's wrong, they will defend their decision intensely. Even more intensely if someone calls them out. No matter how stupid or smart someone is they are usually going to have a lot of pride and hate to be proven wrong.

 

[zekko]

women aren't stupid. anyone who tells you otherwise is an idiot

How many times have you read the term "hamster brain" referring to women's intelligence here?

why do men on avg, suck so ****ing bad in the sense that they don't "get it". WHY DON'T men try to become men?

Some guys just suck. But being a man is more complicated than being a woman.
Besides which, how many mixed messages are guys being sent these days?
They probably have no idea what it is to be a man.

Are they supposed to be the hard working responsible father figure? Or will they be told that women will find that boring and cuckold them? They should be the ****y @sshole player instead.
Should they follow their dreams which are admitted long shots - like trying to be a pro athlete, star musician, or actor?
Or try to get a more "real", practical job?
Go to school to obtain more education? Be the clever entrapeneur? The stoner slacker who likes video games? The thug? The angst ridden goth?

 

[Warrior74]

Originally Posted by backbreaker
why do men on avg, suck so ****ing bad in the sense that they don't "get it". WHY DON'T men try to become men?

It's because women are born, men are made. Men become men by dealing with adversity. We in the first world have very little adversity for the average man to overcome. Anyone can work hard enough to feed and cloth themselves. The things that are huge enough to be adverse are too big to overcome as an individual. I think without guidance, most young men will see it this way and just give up.