Fahrenheit 9/11

[CadillacCTS]

How many of you have seen this movie? I went and saw it yesterday and it is definately an interesting documentry to watch. It's give detail background on the war on Iraq and the hidden agendas, however this movie may be just propaganda.BTW this movie totally disses Bush, so much so that it is halarious All I can say is that most of us don't know the truth, we think we know the truth, but we really don't. Because usally we experience new 2nd hand trough TV, internet and even documenteries such as Fahrenheit 9/11 , and the likely hood of these sources being biased is high. Most of us have no choice but to live in ignorance, but then again ignorace is bliss.

P.S. I live in Toronto Canada and I heard that this movie is banned in USA until elections are done with, is this true?

 

[Levex]

Moore doesnt even try to hide the fact that he hopes his movie will influence people to vote Bush out of office. and it's not banned here either, in fact it opened in something like 800 theatres, a record for a documentary.

 

[Dirtheart]

Every argument has more than one side. What you have been hearing on US news stations, from the government and TV is one side of the argument. This film is the other side.

It would be naive to trust Moore's opinion and accept it as "right". Of course it's biased, but the facts at least are true (otherwise he'd be facing and losing a huge lawsuit) and he can back it up with evidence, which is something governments allow themselves to neglect. At least this movie gives people chance to form their own opinion now.

I haven't heard about it being banned in the USA until after the elections, but I can't think that it's true. If the government did that they'd be directly repressing free speech and it would be clear to everyone they have something to hide.

 

[boost]

All I can say is that most of us don't know the truth, we think we know the truth, but we really don't. Because usally we experience new 2nd hand trough TV, internet and even documenteries such as Fahrenheit 9/11 , and the likely hood of these sources being biased is high. Most of us have no choice but to live in ignorance, but then again ignorace is bliss.

This is very true. However, Michael Moore lost ALL credibility with me after that POS "documentary" Bowling for Columbine, in which he presented at best, half truths, and often, flat out blatant lies. I can't take anything the man says seriously ever again, and as such, I'm just not interested in anything else he has to say.

P.S. I live in Toronto Canada and I heard that this movie is banned in USA until elections are done with, is this true?

Totally false. his movie led box office sales in the US this past weekend, iirc. Who in the world would tell you something like that?

 

[Julian]

Its not a documentary.

 

[Page]

It's just liberal propaganda dressed up as a documentary.

I'll wait for the DVD, or a telesync/screener release if I can find one to download. I don't feel like paying $8 to be politically indoctrinated, however my curiousity still makes me want to see it regardless.

 

[Dirtheart]

Bowling for Columbine, in which he presented at best, half truths, and often, flat out blatant lies.

I didn't know this. Any examples you can give?

 

[boost]

Originally posted by Dirtheart
I didn't know this. Any examples you can give?

One of many websites dedicated to exposing BFC BS:

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com

I hope you've got all afternoon, cause you are gonna be reading for a LONG time.

 

[Cleatus VanDamme]

Moore does not try at all to portray Bush as an idiot. All he does is point a camera at the man and let Bush tell his own story.

Anyone who thinks Bush is some kind of "plain talkin' straight shooter" is about to have his/her illusions crushed. The man is a confused tounge tied feeb.

 

[Dirtheart]

Thanks Boost, what I got through was interesting reading. I get the idea the writers are gun supporters and Moore haters for that reason, but I never take anyone's word as gospel.

There's no doubt Moore is a propaganda merchant, but I do think he makes a lot of credible points and (especially in his books) gives documented evidence; he just adds his own spin to it.

But my view is that Bush will use all the tricks and tactics he can to stay in power, so it's fair that his opposition should do the same. Eventually, when they're all done exposing and demeaning one another, we'll be a little closer to the truth.

 

[KC_Seductive]

Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

CadillacCTS
P.S. I live in Toronto Canada and I heard that this movie is banned in USA until elections are done with, is this true?

Originally posted by boost

Totally false. his movie led box office sales in the US this past weekend, iirc. Who in the world would tell you something like that?

It amazes me what other countries "hear'" about America. It is too bad that many foreigners are misinformed. That is another thing that fuels the hatred of the U.S.

 

[boost]

Thanks Boost, what I got through was interesting reading. I get the idea the writers are gun supporters and Moore haters for that reason, but I never take anyone's word as gospel.

Well, the author of that website says he is "afraid of guns and doesn't own one"... not sure how much truth there is to that, but its pretty much irrelevant, because...

There's no doubt Moore is a propaganda merchant, but I do think he makes a lot of credible points and (especially in his books) gives documented evidence; he just adds his own spin to it.

... I've never seen him make a credible point. The simple fact is that in all his gun transactions in BFC, he either left out KEY pieces of tape/information, or committed federal felonies that will get you sent to federal prison with bubba. There are no two ways about it. He lied, or he's a felon. One of the two. No other choices. In either case, his credibility with me is gone for life.

But my view is that Bush will use all the tricks and tactics he can to stay in power, so it's fair that his opposition should do the same. Eventually, when they're all done exposing and demeaning one another, we'll be a little closer to the truth.

What 'tricks and tactics' Bush is using escapes me. His actions are a matter of public record. Don't look at what he says; look at what he does. My problem with Bush is that he is a RINO republican ("republican in name only"). He has signed into law just as much liberal legislation as Clinton ever did... even though he said he wouldn't. His only redeeming factor for me is his tough (though sometimes misguided) stance on dealing with terrorists. I can't vote for him in good conscience, but I may just have to hold my nose and do it, because I like the alternative even less. And wrong as it may be, a vote for a true conservative that has no chance of winning is essentially a vote for Kerry.

 

[Dust 2 Dust]

I admit that Moore often gives half-truths in his films but I agree with the underlying themes of his films.

The average college graduate walking down the street could probably be as good if not a better president than Bush.

The war in Iraq was unnecessary. The pro-war drones were fed lies by the media and CIA then the media denounced the pacifists as unpatriotic (same thing the nazi's did.) I liked the part where he was asking the millionaires in congress to send their kids into the army. Moore has a point here. Anyone who has studied Karl Marx knows that it's the Bourgeoisie that fights the wars with proletariat blood.

i agree with his stance on Gun control. Get rid of all the assault rifles and handguns which serve no purpose in our society other than to kill our neighbor.

 

[CableLight]

I hate Moore.

I honestly do not care how truthful and how much effort is put into his films, but the guy is a Grade-A jackass. I sat through BFC (which was something like 2.5 hours of a fat man giving people sh!t), and nearly turned it off several times. Thank goodness I was high at the time or it would have been even more annoying than it already was. The guy comes off as a major d!ck, plain and simple.

Also, as it's already been pointed out, his movies are ridiculously biased.

 

[Shiftkey]

If everyone in America saw this movie, there would be no way he would win the presidency legaly (haha).

boost, alot of people don't like Michael Moore for one reason or another. That shouldn't stop you from seeing the movie. It's not about him, it's just all crystal clear, unfakable facts. It's basically just a collection of video and pictures.

 

[boost]

i agree with his stance on Gun control. Get rid of all the assault rifles and handguns which serve no purpose in our society other than to kill our neighbor.

"Assault weapons" (as redefined in 1994) are used in less than 2% of all gun crimes. In fact there is only ONE "assault weapon" on the top ten list of guns used in crimes. Banning them is not only unconstitutional; it is pointless. Its like trying to reduce drunk driving fatalities by making it harder for sober people to buy cars.

boost, alot of people don't like Michael Moore for one reason or another. That shouldn't stop you from seeing the movie. It's not about him, it's just all crystal clear, unfakable facts. It's basically just a collection of video and pictures.

He's proven to me that he lies in his "documentaries". So, why should I watch any more of his BS?

I'll probably see F9/11 at some point. But he's not going to get a dime from me for it.

 

[Dirtheart]

What 'tricks and tactics' Bush is using escapes me.

EVERY politician uses them. It's in the way they phrase their speeches, what they choose to omit and the way they deliver them. One obvious thing about the US government that angers me most is that they have used September 11th, the innocent victims and the threats of terrorism to their own personal advantage. They have used the emotions and fears of the people to rally support for the attack on Iraq, to restrict freedom and privacy in America, to gain financially among many other things. If it really was a war on terrorism and the "evil" in the world then why have they ignored the IRA, ETA, and all other non-Arab terrorist organizations?

A film like this doesn't hold all the answers, but it does make people question what they're being told and gives them the option to think as individuals. Moore is biased, Bush is biased, Kerry is biased, but the voter needs to consider the alternative sides to the argument before casting his/her vote.

 

[WastelandWarrior]

i agree with his stance on Gun control. Get rid of all the assault rifles and handguns which serve no purpose in our society other than to kill our neighbor.

What you're suggesting is that I should be forced (at gun-point, nonetheless... ahhh the irony) to give up my guns because criminals use guns while committing crimes.

Criminals also use automobiles during the commission of crimes. Therefore, YOUR car serves no purpose other than to help criminals. You should be forced to give your car to the state and rely upon it (the state) for transportation.

Pretty stupid logic, huh.


Also, put up a couple of links of assault rifles used in crimes. I'm betting you can't find more than 2 or 3.


Here's some 5 honest citizens with the best defense money can buy-

http://www.santamariatimes.com/articles/2004/06/08/news/local/news09.txt
http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040623/NEWS01/406230348/1002
http://www.timesdaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040624/APA/406240691
http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=1965841&nav=EyAzOAME
http://www.registerguard.com/news/2004/06/25/d1.cr.robbery.0625.html

If anyone wants more links like these, tell me, I can find thousands. Seriously... thousands.

 

[Vincent]

Thread closing in T-minus 10....
9....
8....
7....

 

[sAxyguy83]

Boost, I understand how you feel about gun control. The real problem is that there are a lot of guns out there in civilian hands that are designed for one and only one thing - to murder people. Handguns that are easy to carry and have a small clip are sufficient for protecting yourself, and there's nothing wrong with having shotguns and rifles for hunting/target shooting. Gun collecting is also cool (From what I've heard, many of the laws that restrict gun purchasing have exceptions for licenced collectors). However, any automatic weapon or armor-piercing ammunition has no place in civilian hands. I think that people should be able to use these to their hearts content for target shooting by renting them at gun ranges, but that aside from that only police and military should have that kind of firepower. Isn't it kind of frightening that any US civilian with a reasonably clean record can legally become better armed than the police?

EDIT: WastelandWarrior, of those five stories, four were with the type of handgun that is reasonable to carry for self-defense, and one was with a .22 rifle, also not the kind of thing that someone uses to commit mass murder.