Dude finds out fiancée has $170K student debt, dumps her

[MatureDJ]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/04/your-money/04money.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Nobody likes unpleasant surprises, but when Allison Brooke Eastman’s fiancé found out four months ago just how high her student loan debt was, he had a particularly strong reaction: he broke off the engagement within three days.

Ms. Eastman said she had told him early on in their relationship that she had over $100,000 of debt. But, she said, even she didn’t know what the true balance was; like a car buyer who focuses on only the monthly payment, she wrote 12 checks a year for about $1,100 each, the minimum possible. She didn’t focus on the bottom line, she said, because it was so profoundly depressing.

But as the couple got closer to their wedding day, she took out all the paperwork and it became clear that her total debt was actually about $170,000. “He accused me of lying,” said Ms. Eastman, 31, a San Francisco X-ray technician and part-time photographer who had run up much of the balance studying for a bachelor’s degree in photography. “But if I was lying, I was lying to myself, not to him. I didn’t really want to know the full amount.”

Bottom line: He ran the numbers and thought that her p@ssy was worth servicing $100K in debt, but not $170K.

Dating women from Eastern Europe, I don't have to worry about this.

 

[kingsam]

Doc love says something quite good ... "could you go into business with this woman" (theoriticall reffoering to her personality traits) ... if the answer is no, then shes likely not going to be good RL material

 

[SoldMySoul]

I caught that article too a few days ago. If it were the other way around and He had all that debt would the women do the same? The answer is easy for most of us! She would drop him like a bad transmission.

This guy is not wrong by any means other than he considered dealing with 100k as opposed to $170k. Yeah sure that is almost 3/4 more, but still.

Why start off struggling so badly with that much debt. It is almost guaranteed UNLESS that dude was totally loaded he would be over encumbered by her existing debt no doubt!!!

I know all to well about debt. For over twenty years I had great credit with a score over 800 for years then the economy and being injured at work forced me to chapter 7 including my house that I have been in for 12 years and bought new. The answer was easy for me: Get a fresh start.

This woman should do the same. Times are tough, but why take on someone in shambles from go because that is what most likely will occur to you for taking them on.

 

[Teflon_Mcgee]

$170k for a photagraphy degree? A degree where she'd be lucky to earn 50k per year? Forget the debt, I'd dump her for being a dumbass

 

[Colossus]

I dont blame the guy. I would have done the same thing.

$170,000 on an X-ray tech salary??? That will never get paid off. And when you get married your spouses debt also becomes YOUR debt by law.

 

[Bible_Belt]

when you get married your spouses debt also becomes YOUR debt by law.

A spouse's old debt does become a liability for the husband in a lot of ways, but technically it is not a legal liability. Only the signors of the promissory note can be held liable for the debt in court. However, in real life, what happens is that the money she has to spend on debt payments is money that she probably would otherwise have spent on something that benefited your side of the relationship - like contributing to bills, entertainment, or household stuff.

My girlfriend came into our relationship with $40k of credit card debt, mostly from her previous marriage. She was current on all of it, until she was late five days on one payment. Her interest rates and minimum monthly payment then tripled...on three different cards. btw, that is now illegal under the new laws. She made too much income to file for bankruptcy while living alone, but not after we moved in together. So I had her file Chapter 7. All the credit card debt vanished, and she even got to keep her car.

However, unlike credit card debt, student loan debt is more serious. It can't be erased with bankruptcy. And the collection efforts of the US government are vicious. They tend to employ agencies who bend a lot of rules in collecting debt. I once had a collection agent call my grandma, whose name was never on any loan paperwork, and tell her that she was my long-lost girlfriend from college and desperate to see me again.

 

[Mr.Positive]

However, unlike credit card debt, student loan debt is more serious. It can't be erased with bankruptcy. And the collection efforts of the US government are vicious. They tend to employ agencies who bend a lot of rules in collecting debt. I once had a collection agent call my grandma, whose name was never on any loan paperwork, and tell her that she was my long-lost girlfriend from college and desperate to see me again.

Anyone know if student loans are secured debt? I know credit cards are unsecured debt. You can stop paying, and they really can't do anything to you.

It works like this, stop paying the credit cards, who cares about the fees etc...because you are giving them nothing anyway. Eventually, the credit card company sells your debt to a collection agency for pennies on the dollar.

The collection agency then tries to get anything they can out of you. They lie, threaten you, call your work, family, etc. They are ruthless, they will even go so far as to tell you there's a warrant out for your arrest. Which is lies. Truth is, they can not do anything to you.

You can however, send them a 'cease and decist' letter, that they legally have to stop harrassing you.

They stay in business because of fear, and once a debtor makes any payment at all...they string that debtor along and bilk them for all they can take.

There's a really good 60 minutes show on collection agencies. It's worth watching. What a scam.

Of course, it's morally wrong to default on credit card debt..but that's a whole other topic.

 

[Annapolis Sailor]

I know all to well about debt. For over twenty years I had great credit with a score over 800 for years then the economy and being injured at work forced me to chapter 7 including my house that I have been in for 12 years and bought new. The answer was easy for me: Get a fresh start.

This woman should do the same. Times are tough, but why take on someone in shambles from go because that is what most likely will occur to you for taking them on.

What most people do not know is that school loans cannot be discharged in a court of law. You cannot place school loans in bankruptcy court. They are protected from bankruptcy. She will be a slave to that loan until the day she dies. Forget about owning a home, nice car, vacations, etc. Some may say, "stop paying". Yeah, well they will take you to court and garner your wadges anyway plus a judgement against you. You must pay, you will pay, and they will make you pay. The interest compounds exponentially. E.g. you have a $100K loan and do not pay it for 5 years; the next thing you know you owe $170K. She knew what she owed. The man did the right thing in dumping her!

 

[Bible_Belt]

Anyone know if student loans are secured debt? I know credit cards are unsecured debt. You can stop paying, and they really can't do anything to you.

Both are technically unsecured debt, but that just means that there is no property attached to the loan itself.

What happens when you don't pay is that you get sued in civil court. If you don't show up for court, or if you show up and admit the debt, then the creditor wins a judgment against you.

On a side note, I worked for some attorneys who told all clients to say that they did not admit the debt and request a trial, because it cost too much for the credit card company to pursue a trial on the merits of the contract. They said it was not lying, because by saying 'I do not admit to the debt' in court, you could theoretically be saying that you owe a much smaller amount instead, so it's not perjury. It will often make the judge mad, but there is not much they can do. afaik this tactic worked 100% of the time, but be warned that every locality is different. I live far from a major city, and the credit card company would have to send a representative of their own to testify at the trial. I think that distance was why this trick worked.

If you only owe credit card and other consumer debt, you can stop the civil proceeding immediately by filing bankruptcy. Pretty much all debt can be erased in bankruptcy...except if you owe the government money. Then it's too bad for you.

Assuming you did not file bk and lost in court, you now have a judgment against you. The next summons to court will be for the hearing where you have to tell the creditor all about your income and assets. Sometimes the judge just sends you out into the hallway to fill out a form. If you do not show up for this hearing, the judge has the option to find you in contempt of court and issue a criminal warrant for your arrest. That is how people go to jail for credit card debt, and it is what collection agents are alluding to when they threaten you. Jurisdictions vary as to whether or not they will issue the warrant for contempt, so do judges, and it may come down to the mood of the judge on that day.

At this point is when it's a great time to be broke and jobless. If you have nothing to take, then they get nothing. It's called being judgment-proof. Otherwise, if you have a legit job where you pay taxes, then they will garnish your wages. A lot of men who work for cash do so because they have creditor or child support problems. Many people are worried that they might lose their house over a credit card debt. In the worst case scenario, the creditor can attach a lien to a property. However, forcing the sale of an asset is much harder, especially a primary residence. It is technically possible, but no one ever seems to have heard of it actually happening. It would take too long and be too expensive to be worthwhile.

 

[SoldMySoul]

What most people do not know is that school loans cannot be discharged in a court of law. You cannot place school loans in bankruptcy court. They are protected from bankruptcy. She will be a slave to that loan until the day she dies. Forget about owning a home, nice car, vacations, etc. Some may say, "stop paying". Yeah, well they will take you to court and garner your wadges anyway plus a judgement against you. You must pay, you will pay, and they will make you pay. The interest compounds exponentially. E.g. you have a $100K loan and do not pay it for 5 years; the next thing you know you owe $170K. She knew what she owed. The man did the right thing in dumping her!

Funny thing is that I knew it because my attorney explained it to me, but it did not apply to me... I forgot that the woman's debt was student loans. So I failed that test on memorization. OOPS!!!!

Man, it is really hard justifying that kind of debt not making cash to pay it back. A victim of circumstances this woman is.

At this point is when it's a great time to be broke and jobless. If you have nothing to take, then they get nothing. It's called being judgment-proof.

That would pretty much be me!!! I am not sure if I agree it's a good thing or not though. Of course I would not want my wages garnished period as that would suck!

Times are tough out there; that is for sure!!! So in a sense, just as I discriminate against an in debt woman, I will be discriminated by ones because of my circumstances. Very nice indeed! At least I get a fresh start with no student loan debt.

 

[Trader]

Anyone know if student loans are secured debt? I know credit cards are unsecured debt. You can stop paying, and they really can't do anything to you.

It works like this, stop paying the credit cards, who cares about the fees etc...because you are giving them nothing anyway. Eventually, the credit card company sells your debt to a collection agency for pennies on the dollar.

Of course, it's morally wrong to default on credit card debt..but that's a whole other topic.

Excluding extreme situations where you have medical expenses or legal expenses bankrupt you, it really does take away from your manhood when you renege on your debts.

You simply failed to honor your financial obligations, and that leaves you yourself without honor.

 

[maqnetik]

Doc love says something quite good ... "could you go into business with this woman" (theoriticall reffoering to her personality traits) ... if the answer is no, then shes likely not going to be good RL material

something to think about

 

[MatureDJ]

You simply failed to honor your financial obligations, and that leaves you yourself without honor.

Hmm ... I just did a Chapter 7 in which I wiped out $140K of debt (cost me $5K in exempt assets to buy my stuff back.) I could have emptied my exempt assets to pay back the debt "honorably".

I'll take the $135K w/o the honor, just like all the rest of the capitalists on Wall Street.

 

[catman]

I dont feel sorry for the credit card companys. I tryed to work with them it did no good.I even tryed a cc management company they said it would take 7 years to pay back what i owed at the interest rates i was paying? When it comes down to being able to support yourself rent,food,utilities ect or paying the credit card companys you will know what you must do.Im not proud i filed but atleast i dont walk into my next realionship with worthless debit either.I want nothing to do with a women thats 170,000 in debit.

 

[squirrels]

Doc love says something quite good ... "could you go into business with this woman" (theoriticall reffoering to her personality traits) ... if the answer is no, then shes likely not going to be good RL material

That's an interesting perspective. I like it.

I mean, colleges and universities argue that you're "borrowing against future earnings"...maybe that's true to some extent. But the problem is that you want to make sure you have enough "future earnings" to pay those loans off and still be able to live. Many people go WAY into debt in college, only to find that when they get out and get their dream-job (assuming they DO get that job), all the money they intend to make is already "spent" on debt.

Obviously, this girl didn't have a good understanding of her financial situation. Since many men count on women to do mundane tasks like balance checkbooks and shop for the kids, it's important that a woman understand debt and what it means.

I'm not crucifying any woman who has looming debt, just the ones not smart enough to learn from their mistakes and dig out of it. Hell, my mother got into CC trouble (not DEEP, but enough to where it was a problem) for a while, just because she wanted the best for her kids. Once they got OUT of it, she cut up the cards and has never touched them again.

Excluding extreme situations where you have medical expenses or legal expenses bankrupt you, it really does take away from your manhood when you renege on your debts.

You simply failed to honor your financial obligations, and that leaves you yourself without honor.

That's reflected in your credit score.

You could take the opinion that it's the credit-card companies' faults for being STUPID enough to give these cards to kids without verifying that they're responsible or somehow secured. In that case, the banks get what they deserve...and the defaulters get what they deserve in the form of ruined credit...and you can't operate in modern society without credit.

But there seems to be a lot of that going around, both with credit providers and credit consumers...getting greedy and abusing the established trusts. As I said, both sides get what they deserve.

 

[Mr.Positive]

If you do not show up for this hearing, the judge has the option to find you in contempt of court and issue a criminal warrant for your arrest. That is how people go to jail for credit card debt, and it is what collection agents are alluding to when they threaten you. Jurisdictions vary as to whether or not they will issue the warrant for contempt, so do judges, and it may come down to the mood of the judge on that day.

This is a big point, and I didn't know this.

I know a guy that's racked up over 100K in credit card debt. He's purposely done this, just to default on it all one day.

What he was telling me was when it comes to the civil court, just don't show up. Yes, you automatically lose, but his thought process is that since it's a civil case, they can't do anything to you.

I'll be sure to pass this info on to him. I know what he's doing is dishonorable. I agree with others, it's best to just stay out of debt to begin with.

 

[mrRuckus]

"She didn’t focus on the bottom line, she said, because it was so profoundly depressing."



Reality is depressing! I choose to ignore it! Tee hee!

 

[squirrels]

Reality is depressing! I choose to ignore it! Tee hee!

That is a typical trait of all people in today's postmodern society...women in particular.

Whether it is "good" or "bad" depends on your perspective, I suppose. Is perception reality?

Women (especially attractive women) honestly think they can "cute" their way out of any bad situation...that if they ignore something it will go away until some "White Knight" shows up and takes pity on them and saves them from having to experience hardship.

This is fascinating, for a lot of reasons.

 

[jophil28]

That is a typical trait of all people in today's postmodern society...women in particular.

Whether it is "good" or "bad" depends on your perspective, I suppose. Is perception reality?

Women (especially attractive women) honestly think they can "cute" their way out of any bad situation...that if they ignore something it will go away until some "White Knight" shows up and takes pity on them and saves them from having to experience hardship.

This is fascinating, for a lot of reasons.

True ^. The post-modernist mind has been brainwashed into believing that "good" and "bad " is merely a matter of personal definition.
Third rate academics with tenure in 'fluff' departments have a lot to answer for in promoting the hoax of "personal truth" and "parallel realities ".

It is not too much of a stretch to imagine how women can easily be led by their feelings in making decisions. After all, there are no "bad" decisions any more, apparently, just "personal choices" and all choices, it is claimed, have equal merit.
It is interesting to observe the behavior of female followers of this philosophy ...When "bad" reality bites the believers in the azz and they incur losses, they resort to blame shifting, whining about "abusive" guys, and generally act like victims, or as Squirrels said they try to "cute" their way out of the pothole.

Geez, dumb stuff.

 

[Zarky]

You can't discharge student loans through bankruptcy.