Don't you guys ever just get sick of it

[originaldj]

Since I've come to this site I've improved by leaps and bounds. I went to the point where I couldn't hold a conversation with any girl to the point where many of best friends are girls. I am going to have a real prom date not just someone to go with as a friend. But I can't help but shake the feeling that I am sick of it. I hate the fact that one if the main purposes of websites like this is to teach people not to be as nice. I understand that thats the reality but I hate this reality. I hated it then when I was a genuinely good person I had less success with many aspects of my life than when I was an *******. I despise the fact that I had to "next" my oneitits because I cared too much, even though I know I would have been the best thing that ever happened to her. Above all I feel like I am being rewarded for selling myself out. I hate pretending that I am not compassionate or sensitive because society punishes people who wear their hearts on their sleeves. I don't really know what I am getting at but its just a rant. I dunno, is it just me or don't any other of you guys, even real Don Juans, get fed up with all this contrived bs that you have to pull and techniques that you have to memorize. It's like you have to make a choice and either be yourslef and get nothing, or be someone else and get laid.

 

[ARrocket]

The whole point of this site is to IMPROVE yourself....and you will get to a point where you can get girls just by being yourself. It all starts with your inner game, and how you feel about yourself.

 

[DannykDJ]

Sounds like you haven't really improved anything about yourself and that all you are is a walking pua book.

Why don't you name off a few things that you have improved about yourself that are not related to women. I doubt you have really improved anything and just memorized a bunch of scenarios and lines and got lucky that the situations went exactly like the books said they would

Being nice is a wonderful thing. Everyone loves being around nice people, but no one likes being around people who pretend to be nice because they are expecting something in return.

People can sense when you are genuinely being nice and when you are just bending over backwards because you expect something in return.

Most nice people are not actually nice and thats why being nice is considered bad, because bottom dwellers who call themselves nice guys give nice guys a bad reputation

 

[SickAgain]

I think you got it wrong. There's nothing wrong with being nice. There's something wrong with being a supplicating, nervous, fearful, indecisive, unconfident, risk-averting, push-over.

 

[incognito42]

Sounds like you haven't really improved anything about yourself and that all you are is a walking pua book.

Why don't you name off a few things that you have improved about yourself that are not related to women. I doubt you have really improved anything and just memorized a bunch of scenarios and lines and got lucky that the situations went exactly like the books said they would

Being nice is a wonderful thing. Everyone loves being around nice people, but no one likes being around people who pretend to be nice because they are expecting something in return.

People can sense when you are genuinely being nice and when you are just bending over backwards because you expect something in return.

Most nice people are not actually nice and that why being nice is considered bad, because bottom dwellers who call themselves nice guys give nice guys a bad reputation

Most nice people are treated bad because the world is filled with superficial people.

 

[DannykDJ]

Most nice people are treated bad because the world is filled with superficial people.

No as I said most nice people are not actually nice and are treated badly because they let other people take advantage of them.

A genuinely nice person does nice things because they want to help not because they expect something in return so how can a nice person be treated bad? Because this so called "nice person" was being nice because they were expecting something in return for their fake kindness and their egos were hurt because they didn't get it.

If you expect even something as small as a thank you after you do something nice then you did it for the wrong reason and it was just to feed your ego.

Being nice doesn't cost anything and doesn't take away from what you have. People can only take advantage of you if you let them.

 

[j0n024]

" I dunno, is it just me or don't any other of you guys, even real Don Juans, get fed up with all this contrived bs that you have to pull and techniques that you have to memorize. It's like you have to make a choice and either be yourslef and get nothing, or be someone else and get laid."

I didnt think you had to use techniques to become a DJ, I DID read the bible but I never actually figured out all the techniques and never actually thought of using anything when I go out. I think being a DJ is making a choice that your actually going to BE YOURSELF and not something that society wants you to be IE: FAKE, it sounds to me that you except and think that being a DJ means you have to sellout everything you ever wanted to be and having that mindset its bad IMO. I am nice when I want to be and I can be an ass .....hell most of the time lol, but do I care? NO I act like how I want to act and noone is going to tell me otherwise, you can think you have to be an ass to everyone to be a DJ or think that if your nice to one person that youll be an AFC but the fact of the matter is this..... At the end of the day the only thing that should matter is how you feel about yourself and what you did that day.

 

[incognito42]

No as I said most nice people are not actually nice and are treated badly because they let other people take advantage of them.

A genuinely nice person does nice things because they want to help not because they expect something in return so how can a nice person be treated bad? Because this so called "nice person" was being nice because they were expecting something in return for their fake kindness and their egos were hurt because they didn't get it.

If you expect even something as small as a thank you after you do something nice then you did it for the wrong reason and it was just to feed your ego.

Being nice doesn't cost anything and doesn't take away from what you have. People can only take advantage of you if you let them.

That makes zero sense. How old are you?

Let's say I am a good hearted person with honor, integrity, loyalty, kindness, and all the other traits that makeup a desirable human being. I let a friend with a drug problem borrow $200 so they dont get thrown on the streets. I never hear from that friend again. That is how nice peopel get hurt.

How about if Im dating a smoking hot girl. Im a good person who has never double crossed anyone in my life, never said a bad word behind anyones back, and always been there to help a friend in need. My girlfriend of a couple years has a mental breakdown after her dad cheats on her mom and then she turns into a skank and sleeps with all my friends. Tell me how that nice person deserved any of that. Tell me how this "nice person" did something nice and expected something in return, and that is why they had all this coming to them

Fact is, nice people dont expect anythign in return and THAT is how they get treated like trash. They do things for people, and then these people expect more and more and are willing to take advantage of the "nice guy" as much as they can.

 

[SinJester]

There's a huge differance between being nice to gain approval and being compassionate.

Did you read the same DJ Bible as me? No one said you have to be a jerk. I doubt many people here would consider their definition of DJ to be a jerk.

The reality is people that are too nice get walked over. You can be nice you just have to have boundaries, like incognito pointed out with his example.

Also what's with people always saying we memorize techniques and other BS? Most people here, especially the succesful ones don't use 'techniques'. They just create a personality that is attractive to women, or rather remove their negative and flase beliefs so they can be attractive.

I think you may have gone overboard with the whole jerk mentality. But the reality is that nice guys don't get women. You just have to accept that.

 

[schttrj]

ok, let me start by saying that i feel taht this article is not a well-thought one but something that is coming straight from the heart. I like it, dude!

BUT...

There is a thing I would like to say. Remember this,"You are a lover, not a doormat, not a player". You got me? If you love somebody and care about her so much, sure no one is going to despise you for that. It is truly human to do that. And you should be proud that you have such passion, and that makes you a human!

Now, I know what you are meaning by being nice? What we here think of being nice is when you do things that is not about caring about her but trying to get her affections toward you. You with me here?

See, I make it easier for you. If you don't know a guy but you think he is worthy of meeting, you would just meet with him. Would you present him flowers, no reasons, would you buy him an Xbox, no reason, would you give him a ride without reason, no! But once he becomes your buddy, you would probably do these things on occasion or at the right time, as the social customs wants you to, courtsey or affection you know! Same with the girls. Why buy them flowers, chocolates even before they deserve it, just because they are beautiful, nopes! wrong move. Get to know them and see if they are getting well with you or not and if they are caring about you or not, then you might start giving her something in return, it's a selfish world, dude, why invest without any reason or return? give it a thought!

 

[up_an_up]

That makes zero sense. How old are you?

Let's say I am a good hearted person with honor, integrity, loyalty, kindness, and all the other traits that makeup a desirable human being. I let a friend with a drug problem borrow $200 so they dont get thrown on the streets. I never hear from that friend again. That is how nice peopel get hurt.

How about if Im dating a smoking hot girl. Im a good person who has never double crossed anyone in my life, never said a bad word behind anyones back, and always been there to help a friend in need. My girlfriend of a couple years has a mental breakdown after her dad cheats on her mom and then she turns into a skank and sleeps with all my friends. Tell me how that nice person deserved any of that. Tell me how this "nice person" did something nice and expected something in return, and that is why they had all this coming to them

Well both these scenarios where the nice guy gets hurt actually have nothing to do with him being nice or not. Both situations would have happened regardless of your level of kindness.

1. you let a FRIEND borrow money. You obviously care about your friend and i doubt he would be your friend if you were an unpleasent individual. Your Friend who borrowed money is just and *******.

2. the second scenario is completely out of your control.

I guess you missed the point of Danny. Hes right. How can you possible get hurt if you dont expect anything in return from another person. These people with weak egos who feel all warm and fuzzy inside when people say thank you, girls check them out, or give them their number, obviously have very low self esteem.

To originaldj- I get fed up with all these PUA and sets and all that other garbage all the time. These people live ina fantasy world. All you have to do is focus on you. Get a good job, and education, learn something, grow something, travel. Women should be such an insignificant part of your life. By focusing on yourself not only do you
a) help your self and improve your life
b) make yourself more attractive
c)learn to value things that will really matter in the long run

The funny thing is that the less time you spend on women and the more time you spend on yourself, the more women will want you. But that, of course, should really matter anyways

 

[DannykDJ]

That makes zero sense. How old are you?

Let's say I am a good hearted person with honor, integrity, loyalty, kindness, and all the other traits that makeup a desirable human being. I let a friend with a drug problem borrow $200 so they dont get thrown on the streets. I never hear from that friend again. That is how nice peopel get hurt.

How about if Im dating a smoking hot girl. Im a good person who has never double crossed anyone in my life, never said a bad word behind anyones back, and always been there to help a friend in need. My girlfriend of a couple years has a mental breakdown after her dad cheats on her mom and then she turns into a skank and sleeps with all my friends. Tell me how that nice person deserved any of that. Tell me how this "nice person" did something nice and expected something in return, and that is why they had all this coming to them

Fact is, nice people dont expect anythign in return and THAT is how they get treated like trash. They do things for people, and then these people expect more and more and are willing to take advantage of the "nice guy" as much as they can.

How does it not make any sense?

You loaned money to a friend with a drug habit. Did you really expect them to pay you back for it? If you were expecting it back then thats your own fault. Never give anything away that you will want back one day. You knew good and well what was going to happen in this scenario and you made a decision regardless. The fact that you were hurt when you never heard from them again proves you did it for the wrong reason. You were hurt because this friend never came and thanked you and rambled on about how lucky he is to have a friend like you. You should take comfort in just knowing that you helped him.

The second situation has nothing to do with being nice. I am sorry to hear about that happening. Sometimes life is just unfair like that. You had no control over that girl or the situation. This situation would have hurt you regardless of whether you were "nice" or a "jerk" so don't interpret events like this as personal attacks on you. Sometimes you just have to play your deuce.

No matter how much other people expect from you, bottom line is you have to be the one to give it to them. You can't help people who won't help themselves first. Saying "NO" is very powerful and despite the fact that it seems mean, those people shouldn't lose respect for you when you say it, assuming they respected you in the first place.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...I hate the fact that one if the main purposes of websites like this is to teach people not to be as nice. ...

What specifically made you come to this idea about this site?

 

[shinko]

It's nice to be nice, but not too nice...

 

[originaldj]

Let me specify a couple things, that I meant when I wrote this thread. First of all I don't lame anything on this site. Unfortunately girls unknowingly wrote rules to the game and this site just teaches you how to play. I don't hate the site, I hate the rules.

Secondly, when I say nice I don't mean getting walked over. I was always one of the louder ones in my group. Let me give you an example of what I mean. A couple years ago me and my buddy liked the same chick. My buddy went about getting her in the typical manner, eg. using Kino such as slapping her ass. I however, thought it was disrespectful to do this so I never initiated that kind of kino, not because I was shy but because it wasn't right. I'll give you one guess who got the girl.

As well, trust me I understand the purpose of this site. I know it is also about improving yourself, and trust me I am one of the most confident, funny, smart people I know. I lack no inner game.

Secondly,I would prefer that you guys didn't judge me without knowing me. When I say I am nice don't hint that its because I am expecting something in return. In the last 2 years I donated over 300 dollars to charity and didn't tell anyone and I don't believe in god. I didn't expect anything. BTW I am only 18 and work at a minimum wage job.

I apologize for saying hinting that you have to be a jerk to get chicks. But no one can deny the fact that this site does advocate hiding a lot of vulnerable parts of your personality for success. e.g. not showing interest.

Lastly, I am not saying that people on this forum are jerks. However look at the majority of the guys that do pick up chicks and look at those who don't. Don't you feel that its unfair that it has to work that way?

 

[DavenJuan]

Let me specify a couple things, that I meant when I wrote this thread. First of all I don't lame anything on this site. Unfortunately girls unknowingly wrote rules to the game and this site just teaches you how to play. I don't hate the site, I hate the rules.

Secondly, when I say nice I don't mean getting walked over. I was always one of the louder ones in my group. Let me give you an example of what I mean. A couple years ago me and my buddy liked the same chick. My buddy went about getting her in the typical manner, eg. using Kino such as slapping her ass. I however, thought it was disrespectful to do this so I never initiated that kind of kino, not because I was shy but because it wasn't right. I'll give you one guess who got the girl.

As well, trust me I understand the purpose of this site. I know it is also about improving yourself, and trust me I am one of the most confident, funny, smart people I know. I lack no inner game.

Secondly,I would prefer that you guys didn't judge me without knowing me. When I say I am nice don't hint that its because I am expecting something in return. In the last 2 years I donated over 300 dollars to charity and didn't tell anyone and I don't believe in god. I didn't expect anything. BTW I am only 18 and work at a minimum wage job.

I apologize for saying hinting that you have to be a jerk to get chicks. But no one can deny the fact that this site does advocate hiding a lot of vulnerable parts of your personality for success. e.g. not showing interest.

Lastly, I am not saying that people on this forum are jerks. However look at the majority of the guys that do pick up chicks and look at those who don't. Don't you feel that its unfair that it has to work that way?

wow, very specific clarification.

i feel your pain and actually thought as you do in the past. you are "blurring" the lines with everything and losing sight of what REALLY matters.

this site doesnt promote "hiding a lot of vulnerable parts of your personality for success"

a real man IMO should accept being vulnerable sometimes. however dont misconstrue what i mean by vulnerability. im not saying wearing your 'heart on your sleeve" and letting everything affect your goal at hand.

IN FACT IMO i believe you HAVE to be vulnerable sometimes. vulnerability will expose you to rejection, fear, etc. how else are you suppose to cope with these traits? and not just with women but with EVERYTHING.

as far as being a jerk (not nice). the point isnt to purposely be rude and obnoxious. the point is to BE YOURSELF. which means not trying to Impress women or anyone for that matter with a character facade. and believe me, when you dont give a f*ck what anyone thinks about you, people notice.

THESE are the types of guys that get the women you are referring to. they enjoy THEIR OWN lives. they dont have to join THE WOMENS. this is what women are attracted to.

and lastly, as far as your comment about women writing the rules and this site kindve of a resource guide to the rules..

that couldnt be more wrong. MAKE YOUR OWN RULES and dont worry so much what you think women want. when you start playing by your own rules, again, people notice

 

[originaldj]

I don't really have anything to say regarding the first part of your post. However as for your last few sentences, if you "make your own rules" then you wouldn't be here

 

[Mctwist4]

It's a common assumption that the essence of sosuave is to be an as'shole and become successful with women using little tricks and schemes, and feel better about yourself along the way. As you can see from this thread, there are a variety of view points, and ways that people use this place to better themselves.

 

[DavenJuan]

I don't really have anything to say regarding the first part of your post. However as for your last few sentences, if you "make your own rules" then you wouldn't be here

wrong.. you DO make your own rules and that has nothing to do with coming here to this site.

when i say make your own rules im referring to putting your own self in your own frame and let others come to you. dont change yourself to fit anyones needs. you come here to BETTER yourself and help find out WHAT RULES TO MAKE.

think about it, how can you make your own rules when you dont even know what rules to make? find yourself FIRST.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

... A couple years ago me and my buddy liked the same chick. My buddy went about getting her in the typical manner, eg. using Kino such as slapping her ass. I however, thought it was disrespectful to do this so I never initiated that kind of kino, not because I was shy but because it wasn't right. I'll give you one guess who got the girl...

The guy who got the girl used the right type of bait. If you don't like hangling squirmy night crawlers you should consider going fishing for something which enjoys the type of bait that you have.

...
Lastly, I am not saying that people on this forum are jerks. However look at the majority of the guys that do pick up chicks and look at those who don't. Don't you feel that its unfair that it has to work that way?

You're comparing two completely different ends of the spectrum. Take the majority of guys who do get women. Have you taken a good look at the women that they have? How about how the length of time that they're together? How about the ones who do get into a LTR, how many are truly happy or are they just together for convenience or from the fear of being alone?

Now take the guys who don't get women. Are they actually trying their best? Are they truly putting their best foot forward? Do they feel that they are above playing "the game" and if they can't play by their rules they'd rather not play. How many have foregone the companionship of a woman for the companionship of a their job, a pet, a videogame?

There's a lot of middle ground between these two extremes. You just need to pick a spot which resonates with you and use your best qualities to get a woman which is compatible with your style. Not every women will be compatible with you, get over it.