Do you have any friends who keep the frame and command respect from their gf?

[samspade]

The question is, *why* do guys let their gfs walk over them? I agree part of it is due to being programmed by the Matrix: they think this is how relationships should work.

But sexuality is natural. You have what it takes to be a man naturally. Why is that sexuality (i.e. dominance, taking charge) is not finding a way to be naturally expressed in the relationship?

Someone insightful said that since men are basically neutered in their relationships, the only way they can *get off* is thru porn and watching sports. Those are the rare moments where they can feel like a man.

I think it's possible to reframe even a marriage that's gone south, but the man has to reinvent himself 100% and do some serious mental jiu jitsu on his woman even to have a chance at making her respect him again (if she ever did). There was a great post on Roissy a couple of months ago about this. See here.

It IS sad when guys think they have to kowtow to their wives/gfs, or when they "joke" that she's in charge. It simply means these men are operating from a position of fear - fear of loss, fear of being single, etc.

Even in the seduction community, I think there is a massive gap in understanding the consistencies between what it takes to attract a woman and what it takes to keep her around and respecting you. This is one of the things addressed a lot in the MM threads, and with good reason. A lot of men have had that "a-ha" moment when they realized what it took to attract women (confidence, lack of desperation, sense of humor, etc.). Get them in a relationship, and it becomes clear that that sense of social dominance and "game" was the equivalent of a sheep wearing wolves' clothing.

Being a man is a 24/7 thing. It doesn't turn off at work, or when you're alone, or with your buddies. It certainly shouldn't stop when you've gotten serious with a woman.

 

[Ballie]

Originally posted by Samspade

A lot of men have had that "a-ha" moment when they realized what it took to attract women (confidence, lack of desperation, sense of humor, etc.). Get them in a relationship, and it becomes clear that that sense of social dominance and "game" was the equivalent of a sheep wearing wolves' clothing.

Being a man is a 24/7 thing. It doesn't turn off at work, or when you're alone, or with your buddies. It certainly shouldn't stop when you've gotten serious with a woman.

Well said. I have come to that conclusion as well. In my current LTR, I have realised that you have to game ALL the time to keep them interested. It also helps to live appart. It is hard not to slip up but when you do you can feel the interest slipping away.

You have to maintain the frame to retain respect after all you are in charge. Would you respect an airplane pilot who could not keep the airplane flying stable all the time?

 

[Nutz]

I'm the only one of my friends that now has a woman on lockdown. She knows full well that if she steps out of line I'm not afraid to show her the door. My terms, my rules. She hates it and loves it at the same time. Women are hard wired to respect strong men, this is just one facet of that dynamic.

 

[pipe007]

Well said Nutz
I've been dating my girl for 6 months now, and I also have her on lockdown.... when I get mad at her, for good reasons, she immediatly freaks out and gets SCARED thinking that I wont call her anymore or that I will dissapear... which i've done to her before.

she is like, "im sorry" dont be mad,,,, will you answer later if I call you??

the first weeks when we dated she used to do whatever she wanted, and would put me as second place... so I hard nexted her for 2 weeks, didn't answer her phone calls.... next time I saw her, she was "in love" with me and wanted a relationship on my terms

since then I have maintained that strong frame and I every once in a while VERY SUBTLY do things to communicate that i can walk away from her life forever at any minute she steps out of line, no questions asked..

she is in love...
weird... its a pain to be the man 24/7 but you gotta do it, you will feel better, and she will thank you for it
case closed.

 

[Trader]

Well said Nutz
I've been dating my girl for 6 months now, and I also have her on lockdown.... when I get mad at her, for good reasons, she immediatly freaks out and gets SCARED thinking that I wont call her anymore or that I will dissapear... which i've done to her before.

she is like, "im sorry" dont be mad,,,, will you answer later if I call you??

the first weeks when we dated she used to do whatever she wanted, and would put me as second place... so I hard nexted her for 2 weeks, didn't answer her phone calls.... next time I saw her, she was "in love" with me and wanted a relationship on my terms

since then I have maintained that strong frame and I every once in a while VERY SUBTLY do things to communicate that i can walk away from her life forever at any minute she steps out of line, no questions asked..

she is in love...
weird... its a pain to be the man 24/7 but you gotta do it, you will feel better, and she will thank you for it
case closed.

Beautiful story. And the key is that you really do have to be willing to walk away from her.

Again, it comes back to the mentality of: 'I am the Prize.'

But why do you say it is a *pain* to be a man 24/7? Yes it does require more effort, but you grow and mature from it, and she gets excited about you. Win win for everyone.

 

[jophil28]

Well said Nutz
I've been dating my girl for 6 months now, and I also have her on lockdown.... when I get mad at her, for good reasons, she immediatly freaks out and gets SCARED thinking that I wont call her anymore or that I will dissapear... which i've done to her before.

she is like, "im sorry" dont be mad,,,, will you answer later if I call you??

the first weeks when we dated she used to do whatever she wanted, and would put me as second place... so I hard nexted her for 2 weeks, didn't answer her phone calls.... next time I saw her, she was "in love" with me and wanted a relationship on my terms

since then I have maintained that strong frame and I every once in a while VERY SUBTLY do things to communicate that i can walk away from her life forever at any minute she steps out of line, no questions asked..

she is in love...
weird... its a pain to be the man 24/7 but you gotta do it, you will feel better, and she will thank you for it
case closed.

Another story from the trenches.

Keeping a woman "in line" is a long term project which requires a vigilant mindset and pre-planned exit strategies if/when she fukks up or pulls those crappy sh1t tests.

I have a woman "friend" who used to my LTR about twelve years ago.
WE usually chat via email and by phone weekly.

I invited her to meet me( via email) at a club for a drink three days ago. She ingored my invite because she has some new chump all up on her and he is feeding her ego. She just did not reply to my email.
My plan is to stick her in the freezer for at least a month.
She just emailed me two hours ago with some lame excuse for not replying to my invite.
My reply was this ," I have standards and clear expectations of my friends. Not responding to my invitation does not measure up. Take care. Jophil."

I know exactly what she will do. She will cry alone for a week (she's a weeper) and call me in a few days time with some contrived blubbering explanation. She will then invite me out to "make it up". I will decline ....I have already moved another woman up a notch as her replacement.

I learned the hard way a few years ago that eager forgiveness of a woman's bad behavior will only guarantee more bad behavior.

 

[pipe007]

AMen to that bro!
that is the difference between being a so called "DJ" (A man) and an AFC (a boy)

the man respects himself as the most important person in his reality, and COMMANDS respect from others... SPECIALLY his woman. He would not put up with second class behavior... sure sometimes it doesn't have to be that 100% strict you are out of my life" move... you have to balance it

sometimes I will take her to the side and repeat myself for the last time with a firm voice but calmed and finger pointing... " Im going to say this once, I do not like this behavior, undestood?... what are we going to do about it? " "will you give me a final solution to this"?

if she agrees and respects it and changes her behavior, then you are good to keep her and keep going, if after that she doesn't change behavior, then you can drop her cold, and NEXT her.

but if she shows true disrespect where there shouldnt be a need to communicate it, its just obvious for you and her that she disrespected you, and she knew what she was doing, then she gets nexted for as long as it takes for her to crawl back crying and begging, just for the fun of it,,,,, of course you have to think about going back with such a girl..

bottom line: AFC guys will let the girl walk all over them and let themselves be disrespected by the girl, because they are afraid to lose her, are in love, (so they believe) and communicate with unconsciously with their voice, posture, beliefs behaviors that they are in love and that they will stick with her no matter what happens... no matter what she does....

i know of this guy who stayed with this girl even after she cheated on him like 5 times,,, she dumped him like 10 times on and off,,,, and after that they went back and he was " no matter what baby, I will always be your lil Gato" (cat in spanish)

ohh man!!!...

another thing I've learned is to NEVER let my woman raise her voice at me for no strong reason... if she does and we on the phone,,, i say dont raise your voice at me.... if she keeps it up,,, I say.. " I said dont raise your voice at me for the second time" ... if she keeps it up.. I HANG UP... and let her call you mmm like 10 times before you answer....

its a mindset... i guess you could say being the prize,,, respecting yourself, not settling for low treatment, knowing you deserve a woman who respects and admires you... and being that guy,,, you cant fake it,,, you have to be that guy and behave like him, women adapt, they will know they are dealing with a strong man

they will think... "oh I can't play games with this one,,,, he will dump my ass if I do" .... I think I love him.

pffff!!!

 

[Proselytiser]

I think you are onto something. Even if a man is willing to take charge, if he is just not competent and screws up, the girl will look down on him too.

I know one personal example of this.

I stand by the assertion that as a man, you must always be *smarter* than a girl. No girl can respect a man who is less competent than her.

Psychopaths and narcissists tend to get laid more than most people on here, I'd put money on that. They draw in the 'fixer' types and the women are no more in control of the relationship than 'fixer' guys that try to rescue women.

As for the focus of the thread:

My father
My buddy (broke up with her a year ago though)
2 guys at work I can't imagine being dominated by a woman
And me (broke up with her last month)

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Id agree with this...non feeling physcopaths can toss people aside at a whim and forget about them...a character flaw generally speaking...however when applied to dating women it appears to be a most useful ability to possess. Its the physcopaths and narcissists that get women easy no doubt, and no doubt thats why women in general do nothing but complain about men....the type men they are drawn to and easily manipulated by. this isnt true for all men who attract women but id say a large portion.
id also add that the female equivelant would be the bi-polar woman. She has very similar personality traits as the male physcopath, you dont usually, if ever hear of femal physcopaths to my knowledge but bi-polar is widespread. these women display no empathy and can drop men like a discarded toy, they got bored of, with apparently no concience. Thats why so many regular guys seem to get sucked in and dragged under by bi-polar women.

AGREED!!

Male counterparts> Psycopaths (sociopaths, ANPD), NPD (narcissists)
Felame counterparts> BPD (Borderlines), HPD (Histrionics), NPD (sometimes)

These groups are the most charming and manipulative of all. They set the frame/game so others can follow. So, if you don´t control the frame you have no choice but to be guests in their show, or leave them altogether.

Weak spots:
NPD easy to manipulate with praise, promises of loyalty
BPD easy to manipulate with withdrawal of affection
HPD ditto.
ANPD easy to manipulate with the promises of big gains, easy money or sex.

"Strong spots":
NPD charming and has a strong boundary
BPD charming, sexy, intense, hard to resist, intense ability to know what you want and become whatever you want, also uses this info against you.
HPD ditto but tend to be frigid in bed
ANPD the most manipulative and cold-blooded c*nt SOB.

Imagine the interplay between these characters!! It´s a match made in hell. I wonder which person (from these guys) would be the smartest in figuring out the other´s true colors. Maybe the BPD.