Do bad grades in school = Failure in the future.

[kdnash82]

And if you ask who owns the company that the hiring manager works for and more times than not it is a person with a degree.

Gotta disagree again. Most people have degrees that they don't even use. Also, most entrepreneurs don't have a college degree.

This holds true with the company I work for. The founding people were prior military. They began working for a company that dealed in military contracts, got their skill level up and began their own business. That business did well and in turn they bought out other businesses. This is something they continue to do even to this day. They probably have a college degree now, but doubt if they had one when they started their company.

What do I know. Guess I'll just leave it to the people who've already done their research.

http://www.business-opportunities.biz/2004/10/26/entrepreneurs-without-degrees/

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Gotta disagree again. Most people have degrees that they don't even use. Also, most entrepreneurs don't have a college degree.

I'm not talking about small or medium business owners, anyone who has a social security number can own a business (ie. be taxed). A 14 year old can own their own company.

I'm talking about people who don't need to step foot into their business because they have people working for them. These are the people who are asked to be on the board of companies who are on the S&P, the people who need to have off shore banking accounts. These are the people who are smart enough to be able to create an environment in which they make money while seldom lifting a finger.[/quote]

 

[Road Demon]

:crazy: :crackup: First, it was hard to even understand what this guy was trying to say. Must be that 4 year education hard at work. Second, the parts of it I could understand were total b/s.

Individuals with weaker resume but with a 4 year degree? Like I said before and you can ask any employer. A person with experience will always be chosen over someone with a degree.

Dork!

I do admit I typed it rather quickly, for some reason my browser would not let me edit my response to clean it up (that why we have spell check,lol). Check some of my responses to other posts, you will see excellent clarity in my posts. that being said:

I understand you chose not to attend college; I am well aware you are doing tremendous social service to our country being a Marine, I really respect that. I assume you are a NCO, unless you went the alternative route through OCS. Last time I checked, the military does values education...a 4 year degree brings you in a Second Lieutenant; my level of education would bring in as Captain.

Getting back on topic:

On a job application there are series of questions relating to attending college, completing a certain number of credits, and completing a degree.

In the future, you should NOT reference an obviously biased website to support your rather weak arguement, I suggest in the future you reference an independant, non-biased source.

We have alot of young, fertile minds on this forum and they should be encouraged to get an education. It is not the only way, but for most it is. Let them go to college, try it and then let them make their own decision on whether or not to complete a degree. Education opens so many doors...

You are entitled to YOUR opinion, but it far from the consensus that most individuals share. The TRUE statistics show that the higher the average level of education the greater the total lifetime earnings. The only quirk is that the most bang for your buck, is not professional school (MD or PhD), rather a 4 year degree coupled with an MBA. That is because the MD or PhD requires so many years of school making little income, but then you snowball your earnings later.

Look at at quote at the bottom of my post, perhaps that will enlighten you.

RD

 

[kdnash82]

I'm not talking about small or medium business owners, anyone who has a social security number can own a business (ie. be taxed). A 14 year old can own their own company.

I'm talking about people who don't need to step foot into their business because they have people working for them. These are the people who are asked to be on the board of companies who are on the S&P, the people who need to have off shore banking accounts. These are the people who are smart enough to be able to create an environment in which they make money while seldom lifting a finger.

[/QUOTE]
Statistics are right there. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Road Demon]

Statistics are right there. I'll leave it at that.[/QUOTE]

Can we use some REAL STATISTICS.

 

[kdnash82]

I understand you chose not to attend college; I am well aware you are doing tremendous social service to our country being a Marine, I really respect that. I assume you are a NCO, unless you went the alternative route through OCS. Last time I checked, the military does values education...a 4 year degree brings you in a Second Lieutenant; my level of education would bring in as Captain.

This is pretty damn funny. I guess the saying is "Once a Marine always a Marine.", so using that quote, I guess you could say that I am a Marine. I haven't been active for the past 2 years though, so I guess that would make me a prior active duty Marine. I was discharged as an NCO. Now to enlighten this person with this education. You're right. A 4 year education would bring you in as a 2nd LT. But an 8, 12, 30 year education would also bring you in as a 2nd LT. Not a Capt. Keep dreaming if you think you'll be skipping ranks because of your education buddy. Like I said before, I was discharged as an NCO, but now work for a company that subs me out to the government. I hold a GS position equivilant to a Capt. With your education, I'll let you do the math and figure that one out.

Getting back on topic:

On a job application there are series of questions relating to attending college, completing a certain number of credits, and completing a degree.

In the future, you should NOT reference an obviously biased website to support your rather weak arguement, I suggest in the future you reference an independant, non-biased source.

We have alot of young, fertile minds on this forum and they should be encouraged to get an education. It is not the only way, but for most it is. Let them go to college, try it and then let them make their own decision on whether or not to complete a degree. Education opens so many doors...

You are entitled to YOUR opinion, but it far from the consensus that most individuals share. The TRUE statistics show that the higher the average level of education the greater the total lifetime earnings. The only quirk is that the most bang for your buck, is not professional school (MD or PhD), rather a 4 year degree coupled with an MBA. That is because the MD or PhD requires so many years of school making little income, but then you snowball your earnings later.

Look at at quote at the bottom of my post, perhaps that will enlighten you.

RD

:crazy: I'll let you run on with whatever point you're trying to prove with this. Over all, my point to all is someone with experience in a certain field will always be chosen over someone with a college education in the same field with no experience.

"A minimum of a Bachelor’s degree in Computer Science or 3 - 5 years relevant experience."

I'd like to see the guy coming out of school beat out the guy who's been doing this job already for 5+ years with no college degree.

 

[SmoothTalker]

I find it funny that people always love to bring up all those rare, rich people that were successful without degrees.

What they forget to mention is that most of these people were by no means stupid or lazy.

Bill Gates got into HARVARD. All the guys saying that high school isn't important, well I'd like to see you get into a top school with **** high school marks.

The bottom line is that these guys were exceptional, so smart that they could succeed despite not having an education.

Most of us are not that special. Is it possible? Yes. Is it easy? Hell no.

So work your ass off, go to a good school, and you'll start life with a serious advantage. And if you're complaining that the stuff you learn in school is utterly useless, then stop taking stupid **** like literature and sociology. Take some math, science, engineering courses, maybe some business and accounting, and you'll definitely find those useful.

 

[Road Demon]

This is pretty damn funny. I guess the saying is "Once a Marine always a Marine.", so using that quote, I guess you could say that I am a Marine. I haven't been active for the past 2 years though, so I guess that would make me a prior active duty Marine. I was discharged as an NCO. Now to enlighten this person with this education. You're right. A 4 year education would bring you in as a 2nd LT. But an 8, 12, 30 year education would also bring you in as a 2nd LT. Not a Capt. Keep dreaming if you think you'll be skipping ranks because of your education buddy. Like I said before, I was discharged as an NCO, but now work for a company that subs me out to the government. I hold a GS position equivilant to a Capt. With your education, I'll let you do the math and figure that one out.


:crazy: I'll let you run on with whatever point you're trying to prove with this. Over all, my point to all is someone with experience in a certain field will always be chosen over someone with a college education in the same field with no experience.


"A minimum of a Bachelor’s degree in Computer Science or 3 - 5 years relevant experience."

I'd like to see the guy coming out of school beat out the guy who's been doing this job already for 5+ years with no college degree.

The way you phased your response i beleive it was a reason inference to assume you were still active duty?

In Medical Corps:

An MD or Science PhD = Capt; yep a friend with a PhD in Biochem went in a Capt, he is now a Lt. Colonel @ 35.

A MD with a speciality = Major


Wait 5 years and watch that individual without the 4 year degree get surpassed (and/or be unable to transfer to similar position in another company) by the one with 4 year degree and half the experience. Essentially WITHOUT the piece of paper in most cases you limit your advancement to management positions.

You might find this term interesting:

In a 1985 book, "The Gold Collar Worker," Carnegie Mellon University professor Robert Kelley used the term to describe workers with high intelligence who might not like to follow traditional corporate rules.

More recently, "gold collar" has been used to refer to jobs that require skilled labor, but not necessarily a bachelor's degree. Examples include a computer-support specialist or an architectural drafter.

http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/13657

Cheers, RD

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Statistics are right there. I'll leave it at that.[/quote]

So when are you going to start your multi-billion dollar corporation and hire the rest of us? Bill Gates founded Microsoft when he was 20, what are you waiting for or aren't you a part of those statistics?

 

[Road Demon]

LOL

Here are the real numbers from the US Dept of Labor, The Bureau of Labor and Statistics:

http://www.bls.gov/spotlight/2007/back_to_school/images/figure01-earnings_by_degree.gif

original website:

http://www.bls.gov/spotlight/

hmmm...

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

LOL

Here are the real numbers from the US Dept of Labor, The Bureau of Labor and Statistics:

http://www.bls.gov/spotlight/2007/back_to_school/images/figure01-earnings_by_degree.gif

original website:

http://www.bls.gov/spotlight/

hmmm...

Damn, beat me to it... So how did you learn how to research actual government statistics? Perhaps School?

 

[kdnash82]

LOL

Here are the real numbers from the US Dept of Labor, The Bureau of Labor and Statistics:

http://www.bls.gov/spotlight/2007/back_to_school/images/figure01-earnings_by_degree.gif

original website:

http://www.bls.gov/spotlight/

hmmm...

Dude... these stats say absolutely nothing about how many CEO's actually have degrees.

As for the poster below you, I'm still working on my multi million dollar company. Once I get off the ground I'll have you send me your resume. Don't expect to have a job if another resume comes across my desk from a person with more experience.

Not to sit here and brag about how much money I make, but for my age, I'm doing pretty damn good. Just imagine how much I'll be making by the time I'm your age. Maybe by that time I would have decided to go back to school.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...As for the poster below you, I'm still working on my multi million dollar company. . ..

So what's taking you so long? You're not in college and you've been out of high school for what, seven years? What are you doing? How much more time do you need?

 

[Mandiblard]

Just do what you want, and do it good. Who cares if its in a school or not

 

[michaelhctam]

bump

 

[synergy1]

"A minimum of a Bachelor’s degree in Computer Science or 3 - 5 years relevant experience."

I'd like to see the guy coming out of school beat out the guy who's been doing this job already for 5+ years with no college degree.

The experience will get you the low level job ( read technician), but never acquire better positions within typical corporations. Obviously a kid with 0 experience will lose out to someone w/ out a degree an a ton of experience for an entry level job. This is common sense wisdom. However, the individual with a degree will get larger pay raises, and find it exponentially easier to get new jobs within their field once they have just a few years of experience themselves.

As someone who has been exposed to the professional engineering atmosphere for long enough, you are severely hamstrung if you have no degree in the field you are working for. Ask any of the guys who have been working the floor for 20 years, and are already working for kids like me with a few years of experience.

 

[Centaurion]

I agree with synergy1.

You can believe whatever you want, but without a degree you will hit the glass ceiling soon in the corporate world.

At my job there are several guys in their 30s, 40s and even 50s that are GREAT at what they do. Sure they've got tons of experience but they lack a degree. They've been doing the same sh!t for the last decade or so and gotten a couple of promotions before leveling out. I, on the other hand, have worked at the company for about a year at the same level as them, and now, just recently, I got a promotion to become their supervisor. I'm in my second year doing law, but HR have told me straight out that if I get my degree they will create a high level position for me at the company.

So yeah, education rulez!!! :rockon:

 

[comic_relief]

It matters what you study to be honest.

If you got a C in all of your business classes, but have clubs and real life job experience, you will get the job while the kid that studied all the time that got A's in all the classes but not in a single club or activity gets screwed.

What I am going into is something that makes it so grades won't matter.

Most of the time, people will hire another person that has good social skills.

comic_relief

 

[michaelhctam]

LOL... NO

I failed right through highschool, low grades in college. What am I doing now? I'm a teacher.

Hahaha! How ironic!

So good social skills and experience are all that really matter?

 

[Demon]

I never graduated high school. I left halfway through my sophomore year to go to college. I was, at best, a C-average student.

I attended community college over twice as many years necessary to obtain an Associate's degree and only conveniently obtained a Certificate. My college GPA stands at below 2.0, probably around 1.75. At the college I was attending, I'm on academic probation.

I've never been a fan of grades, but always an advocate of learning. Getting good grades is a skill, a skill with which I'm not concerned. Acquiring, processing, retaining, and being creative with information are the skills that I value.

I'm now an entertainment consultant, highly respected within my primary industry, with an impressive portfolio. I supplement my experience with constant professional development and networking.

Do I regret my poor academic performance in high school and college? I wish I stayed in high school, primarily for the girls, but also to have been done with some courses before college. I also wish that in college I chose a major I enjoyed as a passion (e.g., music) instead of a major I thought would help in business (e.g., marketing.)