Ditch the nice guy routine fellas - From CNN

[2Cool]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/04/14/mr.nice.guy.backlash/index.html?hpt=C2

I thought this was interesting to share with the crew. I haven't posted in a mighty long time, but wanted to contribute a little something to remind some of us we don't need to be too nice.

Be nice when she has earned it, have an opinion. Disagree with her, say no occasionally. Let her know that you will stand your ground when necessary.

Anyway, you get the point.

 

[Warrior74]

Love the way the last paragraphs try to derail the message and give the AFCs hope.

Despite this attitude, some dating coaches say that women should keep an open mind. The negative stereotypes of a nice guy aren't always true; the men aren't always timid or easy pushovers. While the nice guys may not be as forward or loud, their selfless personality can be valuable to a lasting relationship, they say.

Being Mr. Nice Guy worked to Melcher's advantage when he met his future wife when he was 23. She strolled into the bank where he worked one day, and he seemed nice, so she asked him out to coffee that day -- a date that would evolve into a successful marriage.

Sometimes, all it takes is for the girl to give the nice guy a chance.

 

[2Cool]

Agreed. The faint possibility that an AFC will get the chance. Everyone Remember the premise of the whole article is about the author's transformation when he became confident and assertive. Remaining the pushover and constant sponge of daily problems is where problems come into affect.

Reward and give when you received what you expect. Anyway, once again the general point is don't be a complete friend and give everything away.

As a reformed nice guy, I know. Turned my marriage around, and I have observed from experience. Challenge the woman/women of your life every now and then, and let her/them know that you are valuable without explicitly saying so. They can sense your confidence and don't need you to say it.

Anyway, there are others who can and have elaborated more extensively and eloquently than I.

Pay attention.

 

[LeftyLoosey]

Love the way the last paragraphs try to derail the message and give the AFCs hope.

I was about to make the same post. I was about to applaud CNN for ditching the Oprah-based relationship nonsense, but they just couldn't resist the pull to be politically correct in the last paragraph.

 

[tinctrar]

Great story.

I have noticed that women arent really looking for chivarly these days. Just this week I offered two pick up two different women for our dates.

One of them said "Chivarly isnt dead" - to which I laughed. The other - well we will find out tonight.

I agree with giving it when its earned.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Being Mr. Nice Guy worked to Melcher's advantage when he met his future wife when he was 23. She strolled into the bank where he worked one day, and he seemed nice, so she asked him out to coffee that day -- a date that would evolve into a successful marriage.

Sometimes, all it takes is for the girl to give the nice guy a chance.

And a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally. I'd love pictures of the girl.


The real entertainment is in the comments though.

 

[dark god]

I'd love pictures of the girl.

3 to 1 odds shes a seadonkey and a half.

 

[zekko]

I find this part of the article interesting:

A 2008 study at New Mexico State University in Las Cruces examined how college students perceived "dark" traits such as thrill-seeking behavior, deceitfulness and narcissism. The study found the female students preferred the males with these traits.

I can see how thrill seeking behavior and even narcissism could be attractive to women. But deceitfulness? What could possibly be attractive about deceitfulness?

Thrill seeking behavior could be like the willingness to take the risk to take down that mammoth for dinner. Narcissism could be like confidence and believing in yourself. But being attracted to deceitfulness just seems self destructive and nothing else.

This is the dilemna guys face. Do you adopt qualities that women find attractive (and thus supposedly become a better man)? Or do you stay true to yourself and be who you want to be? I'm not going to become deceitful against my principles just to please a woman. I'd do without first.

 

[jophil28]

I find this part of the article interesting:

I can see how thrill seeking behavior and even narcissism could be attractive to women. But deceitfulness? What could possibly be attractive about deceitfulness?

.

Perhaps it is another hidden example of how women find men attractive who will pursue their desires in any way available to them.
A man who will deceive others as a frequent tactic to get what he wants is is probably perceived by women to be in a superior position in several ways. He does not play by the rules and is therefor more likely to bring home the bacon that a strictly law abiding guy.
Women who are strongly attracted to this trait forget (or never even consider) that deceit is also an essential component of cheating.
But then again woman rarely consider the consequences of their choices in men - feelings rule.

 

[samspade]

Being Mr. Nice Guy worked to Melcher's advantage when he met his future wife when he was 23. She strolled into the bank where he worked one day, and he seemed nice, so she asked him out to coffee that day -- a date that would evolve into a successful marriage.

Sometimes, all it takes is for the girl to give the nice guy a chance.

It's arguable whether this worked to his advantage. It's more plausible that this guy simply discovered the truth in spite of himself. Most guys that get sucked into marriage at a young age are fukkked. Melcher's marriage probably endured because he learned how to be a real man - it wasn't some magical thing that was the result of his nice guy behavior at 23.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Adding to JOPHIL's take; I sincerely doubt any girl would make a conscious effort to seek out an overtly deceitful guy, much less admit to such. However, the desire is more likely subconscious in being attracted to a capacity for deceit in a guy. Remember girls thrive on the emotions and the biochemical rush that comes from feelings of suspicion, jealousy and indignation. So a guy with even the potential of triggering that in them is (at least perceptually) going to be much more attractive than the guy whose presence and bearing prompt feelings of a more mundane safety and routine dependability.

Women don't want a guy to cheat, but they adore the guy who could cheat. Being with a guy who has provable options, status and confidence enough to be able to cheat on her, yet stays faithful to her, is the ultimate compliment. It becomes self-affirming for a woman to think (however misguided) her femininity, her mystique and her covert efforts are potent enough to keep the Bad Boy faithful.

 

[zekko]

Regarding women being attracted to deceitful men, remember that study was of college girls. Girls that age are still sowing their wild oats. It shouldn't be forgotten that the nice guy gets the girl in the end. Note this article from NoMarriage.com: http://www.nomarriage.com/articlesex.html

And I quote:

New research confirms what romance novelists have known for years: for brief affairs, women tend to prefer a dominating, powerful and promiscuous man.

However, when considering a long-term relationship, women are more likely to turn to a compassionate, sensitive and monogamous man, the report indicates.

So while women prefer the bad boy for the quick fling, they're not all stupid enough to settle down with him (Sandra Bullock is one exception).

I like the article's take on why women are drawn to the "cads":

So why choose to have sex with a cad character, which could also produce a child? That trend may be explained by the "sexy son hypothesis," Kruger said, which proposes that, deep down, women may sometimes believe a son produced by the union with a cad will exhibit the same behaviors, eventually having sex with many women and producing many grandchildren.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

ZEKKO, I'm going to assume you haven't read Schedules of Mating yet.

 

[FairShake]

It's good to be a bad boy for dates and sex but a nice guy for relationships. That's what I've found.

I have no idea why standing up for one's self is considered "bad" though.

 

[zekko]

ZEKKO, I'm going to assume you haven't read Schedules of Mating yet.

I have read that before actually. Not the whole thread, but the first several posts. It's DJ 101: The girl marries the good dad and fvcks the guy with good genes. My only question about this theory is why do good genes = jerk? Can't a good dad type have good genes? Why is a jerk more likely to have good genes?

The other little hole that always bugs me is that risk taking is always presented as a good survival trait. That may be true, but risk taking can also get you killed, or injured. So why the big advantage to risk taking?

 

[kingsam]

The other little hole that always bugs me is that risk taking is always presented as a good survival trait. That may be true, but risk taking can also get you killed, or injured. So why the big advantage to risk taking?

what constitutes thrill seeking?

 

[2crudedudes]

Women are basically like men. They want the wild, thrill-seeking guy for kicks, but the nice chump to raise the children. Kinda like guys want the slut to bone, but the nice girl to marry. I guess the big exception here is if/when men wanna marry.

 

[zekko]

Women are basically like men. They want the wild, thrill-seeking guy for kicks, but the nice chump to raise the children. Kinda like guys want the slut to bone, but the nice girl to marry.

I think there's some truth to this. The girl who have evoked the strongest passion and emotion in me were ones who were clearly wrong for me. In comparison, my best and longest relationships had more of a calm, contented feel to them. When your needs are being met it's more smooth sailing. The difference is like a raging fire that burns out quickly versus one that burns more steadily and reliably.
I suppose it's a similar thing for women with the cads and the dads.

what constitutes thrill seeking?

I think the classic stereotype here is the guy who rides motorcycles. Any sort of activity which could be dangerous, like skydiving, mountain climbing, bar fighting, even skateboarding.

I understand there is an upside to risk taking, but when they talk about women being attracted to it because of survival, I wonder why it isn't balanced by the possibility of death, paralysis, or other serious injury. If it's all about survival, why would women be attracted to the most extreme behavior? It's never quite made sense to me.

 

[jophil28]

I have no idea why standing up for one's self is considered "bad" though.

Asserting oneself, setting limits on what you will accept from your SO, and reproaching her when she has violated a boundary is NOT "bad" in itself - however, it is damned inconvenient to someone who sees herself as faultless and above criticism.