Dissolving My Marriage

[Millard Fillmore]

Women dont have to accept anything.

Women must accept who men are.

Which is it?

 

[EyeBRollin]

Which is it?

Since you edited out the rest of the post, I’ll summarize the context again. Women have 3 choices:

1) Stay single
2) Accept the probability of sexual cheating
3) Couple with a man who has no options

 

[Bokanovsky]

That's a fair take. If a man finds a "good" woman and he wants a long term partnership he should keep that in mind.

Nevertheless, no matter how great she is, very few men will ever lose that itch for strange. I suspect it's true for most women too. Whether it's acted on is dependent on a number of factors. Mankind has tried to moralize it out of us every which way but the beat goes on.

I would have to disagree with this premise somewhat. The itch is not for "strange" but for "better". If one's GF or wife is (in his objective view) a 9, he probably won't be too tempted to cheat on her with some he considers a 7. However, if the situation was reversed, the temaption to cheat would be far greater. The same applies to women. A woman married to a movie star is unlikely to cheat on him with your average-looking mailman or cable guy, but a woman married to a mailman or cable guy would almost certainly cheat on him with a movie star if the opportunity presented itself.

 

[member162951]

The itch is not for "strange" but for better.

I read earlier in the thread from one member it's not necessarily "better" but rather "different." Which I agree with.

Again, I just don't like the lying and deception, the cheating.

In today's culture it's not necessary. As @Slowhandluke said, it's perfectly acceptable to have children and a family without marriage.

Couples can cohabitate and have an agreement to non-monogamy which works for them and is honest.

I do know couples with such an arrangement and their kids are loved, cared for and happy. And they grow up witnessing their parents in love and happy as well. No deception.

It's unclear to me why this isn't an option for men rather than cheating? Especially the newly married guys.

I think I posted this earlier but by agreeing to what she wants (a monogamous relationship or marriage), but YOU don't, you have fallen into HER frame. And then cheating on her.

Try as I might, I truly don't understand this, especially since you acknowledge she's aware you cheat and should accept it.

I like what @AmsterdamAssassin does. He's remains true to himself and his own values and if a woman wants to be with him, she falls into HIS frame.

Isn't that what you guys preach on here, maintaining your own frame?

I dunno, this forum is confusing sometimes.

 

[Millard Fillmore]

I would have to disagree with this premise somewhat. The itch is not for "strange" but for "better". If one's GF or wife is (in his objective view) a 9, he probably won't be too tempted to cheat on her with some he considers a 7. However, if the situation was reversed, the temaption to cheat would be far greater. The same applies to women. A woman married to a movie star is unlikely to cheat on him with your average-looking mailman or cable guy, but a woman married to a mailman or cable guy would almost certainly cheat on him with a movie star if the opportunity presented itself.

Maybe so. I always thought that a guy would go downscale looks wise a bit just to try something different. (Maybe if he's not getting many opportunities.)

 

[Bokanovsky]

Again, I just don't like the lying and deception, the cheating.

I'm fairly certain that no one likes being cheated on or deceived...including people who are liars and cheaters themselves. In fact, when I hear a woman loudly proclaim that she hates "liars and cheats", I treat it a red flag as women are prone to projection.

 

[member162951]

I'm fairly certain that no one likes being cheated on or deceived...including people who are liars and cheaters themselves. In fact, when I hear a woman loudly proclaim that she hates "liars and cheats", I treat it a red flag as women are prone to projection.

Not sure I follow. If a woman (or man as this is not gender specific) claims they dislike cheating and deception, they're projecting because they themselves are cheaters? And it's a red flag?

How would you suggest a person reveal they dislike deception and prefer honesty when they witness cheating or hear people discuss their acceptance of it? Like many on this thread?

Just keep quiet and not say anything? Would you give that same to the men on this forum?

Would you give this advice to @AmsterdamAssassin or @Manure Spherian who also claim they dislike cheating and deception?

Rhetorical question, I already know the answer, which is fine.

P.S. No one is screaming (excuse me "loudly proclaiming"). We are providing opinions, no one is forcing you to agree.

But to say it's a red flag when women provide theirs, wow, that speaks volumes as to your overall opinion about women in general and to ME, that is a red flag.

Nuff said, ciao.
.

 

[Slowhandluke]

men in general do not go into marriage expecting to cheat. men try their best not to but they are only human. It is like a suicide mission, people still hold out that miniscule hope things will work out.

it would be shame if everyone "gave up" trying to be committed because failing would mean massive negative repercussions.

Trying should be commended... but having tried and FAILED at a noble pursuit (commitment) should not cause financial ruin and having your kids poisoned against you by a vindictive ex. if so, then yes, no more marriages for women. but if we are at that stage in society, we can agree that both women and men have lost something. the world is a lessor place.

I read earlier in the thread from one member it's not necessarily "better" but rather "different." Which I agree with.

Again, I just don't like the lying and deception, the cheating.

In today's culture it's not necessary. As @Slowhandluke said, it's perfectly acceptable to have children and a family without marriage.

Couples can cohabitate and have an agreement to non-monogamy which works for them and is honest.

I do know couples with such an arrangement and their kids are loved, cared for and happy. And they grow up witnessing their parents in love and happy as well. No deception.

It's unclear to me why this isn't an option for men rather than cheating? Especially the newly married guys.

I think I posted this earlier but by agreeing to what she wants (a monogamous relationship or marriage), but YOU don't, you have fallen into HER frame. And then cheating on her.

Try as I might, I truly don't understand this, especially since you acknowledge she's aware you cheat and should accept it.

I like what @AmsterdamAssassin does. He's remains true to himself and his own values and if a woman wants to be with him, she falls into HIS frame.

Isn't that what you guys preach on here, maintaining your own frame?

I dunno, this forum is confusing sometimes.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Not sure I follow. If a woman (or man as this is not gender specific) claims they dislike cheating and deception, they're projecting because they themselves are cheaters? And it's a red flag?

Correct.

How would you suggest a person reveal they dislike deception and prefer honesty when they witness cheating or hear people discuss their acceptance of it?

I would suggest that it's not necessary to reveal a dislike for something that is universally disliked by every human being. Do you feel the urge to reveal to others that you would hate to be punched in the face or thrown under a train? If you came up to me and said "gee, I'd really hate to have my wallet stolen", hell yeah, I would immediately suspect that you are a thief yourself.

 

[member162951]

men in general do not go into marriage expecting to cheat.

Not sure about that. @EyeBRollin has been discussing cheating before he got married and took the vow to forsake all others.

Discussing how it a man's biological imperative to desire many women (which I agree with) and that it's okay to act on that desire (which I don't agree with) but never tell your wife and "take it to your grave."

Many others agreed with him, I recall those posts quite vividly before he got married..

It's a general mindset that after reading this thread many men share.

 

[member162951]

Correct.

I would suggest that it's not necessary to reveal a dislike for something that is universally disliked by every human being. Do you feel the urge to reveal to others that you would hate to be punched in the face? Or thrown under a train? If you came up to me and said "gee, I'd really hate to have my wallet stolen", hell yeah, I would immediately suspect that you are a thief yourself.

In other words STFU is basically what your saying. Lol.

No problem!
Ciao mate.

 

[Slowhandluke]

Not sure about that. @EyeBRollin has been discussing cheating before he got married and took the vow to forsake all others.

Discussing how it a man's biological imperative to desire many women (which I agree with) and that it's okay to act on that desire (which I don't agree with) but never tell your wife and "take it to your grave."

Many others agreed with him, I recall those posts quite vividly before he got married..

It's a general mindset that after reading this thread many men share.

yeah, if this is so.. if you aren't going to even try, then I agree. don't marry. just cohabitat.

 

[BeExcellent]

Some people on this thread feel entitled to cheat. I'm willing to bet that @EyeBRollin is one who would sneak around rather than tell his wife he feels he is entitled to cheat. I bet that would not go over well with her, and he would fear losing her.

A man who operates that way is weak in my view, as well as dishonest. Glad I'm not married to that.

Whereas @AmsterdamAssassin is honest and transparent about how he operates. Women choose to become his lover under full disclosure. That builds trust and respect, although its not an arrangement every woman will agree to.

If you stood up before God and your wedding guests and took a vow to forsake all others and you cheat? You are a liar and your word is no good and you have at best weak character. LBJ was a well known womanizer too. Lady Bird knew, but didn't care for sex anyway so she was Ok with it. She told him to be discreet so as not to embarrass her. You cannot know what kind of arrangement a couple agrees to privately. Like Joy's parents. Lady Bird & LBJ had a great partnership and friendship outside the bedroom. But open agreement is not the same as sneaking around behind someone's back.

 

[EyeBRollin]

men in general do not go into marriage expecting to cheat. men try their best not to but they are only human. It is like a suicide mission, people still hold out that miniscule hope things will work out.

it would be shame if everyone "gave up" trying to be committed because failing would mean massive negative repercussions.

Trying should be commended... but having tried and FAILED at a noble pursuit (commitment) should not cause financial ruin and having your kids poisoned against you by a vindictive ex.

This. Unfortunately, most of our western peers don’t see it that way. Instead, a couple who’s been married for decades should blow the whole family up because a woman threw pvssy in the husband’s face. Sad part is, if the wife leaves she is the one that is worse off. The advice given by women to women is literally sabotage.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Many others agreed with him, I recall those posts quite vividly before he got married..

It's a general mindset that after reading this thread many men share.

Yes, catsmeow the men agreed with my points because my points are realistic. Not your disingenuous attempts to re-frame them.

Women want men to be “upfront” about man’s propensity to fvck around because “honesty” advances the female mating strategy. That’s why guys lie. They lie to get pvssy. Women lie through their looks and sexual past. That’s how the game works.

You can keep normalizing modern society’s advice to women when all the evidence shows it does not work:

“Every guy cheats on me”
“I divorced him because he cheated”
“Why do all guys cheat?”
“Where are all the good men?”

Tell these women the truth.

 

[Bokanovsky]

In other words STFU is basically what your saying. Lol.

No problem!
Ciao mate.

No, quite the opposite. Keep talking

Women have this irresistible urge to confess. They'll reveal their red flags without you having to ask a single question. You just have to listen carefully.

 

[Bokanovsky]

If you stood up before God and your wedding guests and took a vow to forsake all others and you cheat? You are a liar and your word is no good and you have at best weak character.

Please . You are such a hypocrite. When you married your first husband, did you "stand before God" and take a vow to stay with him "till death do us part"? Well he's not dead, is he? But that didn't stop you from breaking your vow and filing for divorce. You and EyeBRollin are the flip sides of the same coin.

 

[member162951]

yeah, if this is so.. if you aren't going to even try, then I agree. don't marry. just cohabitat.

Thank you. I'll let you take it from here although I doubt since you're a man, you will receive the same backlash for having essentially the same thoughts and opinions as I.

No worries, it is what it is, my bad for believing otherwise.

No, quite the opposite. Keep talking

Thanks! But I'm gonna take a pass on that, and wish y'all the best.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I like what @AmsterdamAssassin does. He's remains true to himself and his own values and if a woman wants to be with him, she falls into HIS frame.

With me it's not a 'frame', I've always been an Einzelgänger and a non-conformist, but most men are too worried about the perceptions of others.

Whereas @AmsterdamAssassin is honest and transparent about how he operates. Women choose to become his lover under full disclosure. That builds trust and respect, although its not an arrangement every woman will agree to.

True. The interesting thing to me is that I tried monogamy but it didn't suit my lifestyle, so virtually all the women I've been involved with knew before they became intimate with me that they'd would be sharing me and I found that it spared me a lot of aggravation, because I spoke with men who told me about being denied sex and having to sleep on the couch and being worried about women leaving them. I never understood why anyone would want someone to stay with them when they clearly didn't want to stay anymore. What for? Pity? Duty? Meanwhile, I admire people who make a monogamous relationship work without manipulating each other and/or cheating.

 

[BeExcellent]

Please . You are such a hypocrite. When you married your first husband, did you "stand before God" and take a vow to stay with him "till death do us part"? Well he's not dead, is he? But that didn't stop you from breaking your vow and filing for divorce. You and EyeBRollin are the flip sides of the same coin.

Not at all. My first husband became depressed and an alcoholic after his business fiasco. Five years before I left I explained that if he did not get treatment for the depression & alcoholism that I would divorce him over it. Five years later, no change. So I left.

Alcoholism destroys families. A divorce was the correct thing to do. I was always loyal, honest and transparent with him. It has benefitted the children. There was no lying or deceit. That's why he didn't fight or cut me in half financially. He knew he had not kept his promise to get help...so I kept my promise to leave.

You don't like me personally, that's fine. But I have character and would not cheat or decieve. That is different from what EyeBRollin suggests.

As for me?

4. Be a high enough value woman that you are the best option that your man is proud to have you & determined to keep you. That is me. My husband knows he is lucky to have me. He doesn't dare screw that up.