Dissolving My Marriage

RickTheToad

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Nope. Its about trust between us. Now. The assets I built before my second marriage are in a trust I set up years ago after my first divorce. Keeps them and their income separate.
Unless you take nothing from those assets, and make no decisions, they can be open for a court to take. One way around is a having a trustee as the "President" of the LLCs, and being the figure head on making all decisions; but deferring to you. Many elder law attorneys offer this service. Consider speaking to one on this. I went through this myself; so I know a thing or two on this matter.
 

Slowhandluke

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Nope. Its about trust between us. Now. The assets I built before my second marriage are in a trust I set up years ago after my first divorce. Keeps them and their income separate.

Basically, the financial trust is to prevent your current husband from mucking around what you made before the marriage if things so south. Also, if you were to divorce, who would pay who alimony?

When you say, "it's about trust between us" -- Trust isn't really trust unless the other person has the ability to financial destroy you... but doesn't. In BeExcellent case, I don't think her current husband has the ability.... So it's really not about trust. I could be wrong, but I don't so. She seems like a rational woman and would do things to protect herself even though she says to "trust" the other partner when in actuality, I don't think she does... Not enough to allow him to personally destroy her financially.
 

Slowhandluke

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Unless you take nothing from those assets, and make no decisions, they can be open for a court to take. One way around is a having a trustee as the "President" of the LLCs, and being the figure head on making all decisions; but deferring to you. Many elder law attorneys offer this service. Consider speaking to one on this. I went through this myself; so I know a thing or two on this matter.

Yeah, I thought trust was for your kids.. preventing you from taking it... So basically, it's not really your money anymore - it's the kids when they are of age. This prevents other people from taking the money because as noted, it's not really your money.

If you are able to muck around with it, is it really a "trust"?
 

BeExcellent

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Unless you take nothing from those assets, and make no decisions, they can be open for a court to take. One way around is a having a trustee as the "President" of the LLCs, and being the figure head on making all decisions; but deferring to you. Many elder law attorneys offer this service. Consider speaking to one on this. I went through this myself; so I know a thing or two on this matter.
Its an irrevocable trust. So its pretty well bullet proof.
 

Money & Muscle

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Its an irrevocable trust. So its pretty well bullet proof.
So to be clear, you don't have a financial risk if divorce happens?
Or at least, not a significant one?
 

RickTheToad

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Yeah, I thought trust was for your kids.. preventing you from taking it... So basically, it's not really your money anymore - it's the kids when they are of age. This prevents other people from taking the money because as noted, it's not really your money.

If you are able to muck around with it, is it really a "trust"?
It's more of an asset protection trust. There are strict laws and regulations to manage it. It's always best to make it as "bulletproof" as possible; but in reality, nothing is 100%. One additional way would be in a strong state for trusts, such as Delaware, New York or Nevada.

After 3 years, NY irrevocable trusts are nearly impenetrable. However, there was one which was pierced a few years ago. One needs to make sure they don't touch any of the assets; outside of acting like an employee or manager with someone, in theory, overseeing what they are doing and approving. It's complicated, but doable if one is meticulous on how they run the trust and subsequent LLCs. Co-mingling is an area where a lot of trusts muddy the waters.
 

BeExcellent

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Correct @FlexpertHamilton. Mine was created over 5 years ago. Those assets are safe. Additionally I'm in a state where state law is very clear that assets owned prior to the marriage and proceeds from those assets cannot be considered martial assets.

I'm not acquiring anything else to go into those structures. Nothing is 100% but this is close.

For @Money & Muscle its like this. My current husband makes a 6 figure income (about what you make). I out earn him. We have no children together and there is no financial dependency. There would not be alimony.

He stands to inherit 7 figures from his parents (which I didn't know until after we were married) and that also will remain non marital assets.

Those things wouldn't matter. He'd keep his retirement accounts & vehicle, I'd keep my assets and obligations. We have no marital property at present (real estate, businesses etc.) and if we buy something I'll be sure we create a partnership that clearly defines things, especially if one or the other of us contributes significantly more cash than the other.

Your situation is more like my first marriage where we built everything together (well, I was the breadwinner & he was the house spouse after his buisness fiasco)....he was SAH husband more than 10 years.

The court is going to see you as a team. The court will see your wife as having enabled you to build income and wealth by providing the childcare & handling things on the homefront. She did that INSTEAD of build her own career, sacrificing her worth in the work force in favor of being a SAHM for your family. The court will assign that value NOW.

She accepted you when you had nothing and now you think you should be entitled to kick her and your family to the curb since you have something.

Very short sighted my dear. She will get the house and child support until your daughter is 18; she will also get years of spousal support on top of that. You earn 100% income; she earns none. The court will cut you in half now and you'll be subsidizing her for over 10 years if your daughter is small. You will be supporting them no matter what. It is smarter to stay married and work it out.

Have you sat her down & listened to her beefs & accepted your accountability in the unstable home environment you've created? This is a tango my friend. You are both contributing to the strife.
 

Barrister

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OP,

I read through the first few pages and decided to comment so forgive me if I am just restating what others have at this point.

Here is what I will say. First, on whether to divorce or not. Divorce sounds like the correct move for you just based on the fact that your marriage has been a constant complaint for you in the year or so you have been a member here. You aren't happy. If you aren't happy, your child is going to grow up seeing that and that isn't good for her just as much as it isn't good for you. So go ahead and pull the trigger and take control of your own happiness again.

Second, regarding assets. You are screwed and no little trick you try to pull here with a "non-financial" divorce is going to work with a court of law. I seem to remember you are military, but it won't matter. You are in a 9 year marriage (as opposed to like a 1-2 year one), your wife is SAHM who takes care of your kid. You are going to get financially fvcked without a prenup. Which you don't have. Your wife is going to go talk to a lawyer as soon as you mention divorce and that lawyer is going to tell her how she can completely take you to the financial cleaners.

Here is the thing though. Money can be made again. Don't be a person who stays in an unhapy 10-30 year marriage for the kids or because "it is too expensive" to get divorced. It isn't. There is no $$ figure on your enjoyment of life. So bust out the check book and get ready. Then after you do that, get ready to have the best 5-10 years of your life.

Good luck, brother.
 

Aristippus

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Although her intentions are good, Be excellent is clueless about this matter. She will never be in a man's shoes in this matter so her personal experience or lack of is irrelevant.

Go to a parallel universe where the judicial systems are stacked highly in favor of men and completely biased against women and where all stipulations of your marriage contract penalize you no matter what the circumstances of your divorce are. Get married to a capricious man in that parallel universe and lay your entire financial future at the mercy of his whims.

Next get financially ruined when you divorce and then when you come back to this one, your opinion will actually be backed up by experiences similar to men's.

In the meantime I'll refrain from having "girl talks" with women about "the joy of motherhood."
 

BeExcellent

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Although her intentions are good, Be excellent is clueless about this matter. She will never be in a man's shoes in this matter so her personal experience or lack of is irrelevant.

Go to a parallel universe where the judicial systems are stacked highly in favor of men and completely biased against women and where all stipulations of your marriage contract penalize you no matter what the circumstances of your divorce are. Get married to a capricious man in that parallel universe and lay your entire financial future at the mercy of his whims.

Next get financially ruined when you divorce and then when you come back to this one, your opinion will actually be backed up by experiences similar to men's.

In the meantime I'll refrain from having "girl talks" with women about "the joy of motherhood."
The courts don't care about female versus male. The courts care about who earned more and who was out of the workforce taking care of children.

Actually I was the sole breadwinner and my first husband stayed home with the kids (from birth on). I was the one at risk of being financially split in half, which any court would have done had my first husband and I not negotiated something equitable before lawyers got involved.

So understand I was in exactly the spot where OP sits right now. The court takes from the higher earning spouse (me in my case) and subsidizes the lower earning or non earning spouse.

I was extremely lucky. My first husband acknowledged that he had not held up his end of the bargain in the marriage while I busted my ass earning a living. My first husband also understood that our children would be far better served if I was not financially gutted because I was the financially responsible and savvy one in the relationship. He did not seek to take whatever he could from me. I was LUCKY. My lawyer, when the papers were signed & final told me, "You better pray he doesn't come to his senses and take half of everything for the next 30 days....he gets a reconsideration period..."

So yeah. I've been where OP sits on the financial issue.

The only way to avoid being gutted is to negotiate with the wife and agree to something you both find fair.

I had ZERO mandated child support or alimony. But my ex husband and I agreed that I would pay him whatever he needed to take care of the kids etc. so long as he asked. Hell. I left him a checkbook on my account so he could cut himself the checks. He would call or text, we'd discuss it, he'd write himself a check on my account. No Attorney General needed. He has never paid rent or mortgage in 10 years. He lives in the marital home, which I own & carry the mortgage for, he pays his bills. When I sell that home, I'll give him the equity. I bought him the car he always wanted. I pay for major expenses like college for the children. I bought the kids their first cars, got them all braces for the teeth.

He did not gut me financially so that has allowed me the assets and income to handle these things. Win-win.

He has retirement assets as part of the trust I set up. He is a beneficiary, followed by the kids.

But our agreement required tremendous trust between us. My second husband has had to make peace with the agreement I made with my first husband who could have screwed me financially, but didn't.

So ya. Been through it. I was very lucky because I knew I had a lot to lose in court and I chose to get out ahead of it and be civil and handle things agreeably for us both.

I'm not sure OP and his wife have that kind of maturity and sense of responsibility. And I had 3 kids, not just 1....read 3x the expenses.

OPs problem is he wants both the relationship with his wife AND he wants a financial divorce. Those two desires CANNOT co-exist.
 

RickTheToad

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The courts don't care about female versus male. The courts care about who earned more and who was out of the workforce taking care of children.

Actually I was the sole breadwinner and my first husband stayed home with the kids (from birth on). I was the one at risk of being financially split in half, which any court would have done had my first husband and I not negotiated something equitable before lawyers got involved.

So understand I was in exactly the spot where OP sits right now. The court takes from the higher earning spouse (me in my case) and subsidizes the lower earning or non earning spouse.

I was extremely lucky. My first husband acknowledged that he had not held up his end of the bargain in the marriage while I busted my ass earning a living. My first husband also understood that our children would be far better served if I was not financially gutted because I was the financially responsible and savvy one in the relationship. He did not seek to take whatever he could from me. I was LUCKY. My lawyer, when the papers were signed & final told me, "You better pray he doesn't come to his senses and take half of everything for the next 30 days....he gets a reconsideration period..."

So yeah. I've been where OP sits on the financial issue.

The only way to avoid being gutted is to negotiate with the wife and agree to something you both find fair.

I had ZERO mandated child support or alimony. But my ex husband and I agreed that I would pay him whatever he needed to take care of the kids etc. so long as he asked. Hell. I left him a checkbook on my account so he could cut himself the checks. He would call or text, we'd discuss it, he'd write himself a check on my account. No Attorney General needed. He has never paid rent or mortgage in 10 years. He lives in the marital home, which I own & carry the mortgage for, he pays his bills. When I sell that home, I'll give him the equity. I bought him the car he always wanted. I pay for major expenses like college for the children. I bought the kids their first cars, got them all braces for the teeth.

He did not gut me financially so that has allowed me the assets and income to handle these things. Win-win.

He has retirement assets as part of the trust I set up. He is a beneficiary, followed by the kids.

But our agreement required tremendous trust between us. My second husband has had to make peace with the agreement I made with my first husband who could have screwed me financially, but didn't.

So ya. Been through it. I was very lucky because I knew I had a lot to lose in court and I chose to get out ahead of it and be civil and handle things agreeably for us both.

I'm not sure OP and his wife have that kind of maturity and sense of responsibility. And I had 3 kids, not just 1....read 3x the expenses.

OPs problem is he wants both the relationship with his wife AND he wants a financial divorce. Those two desires CANNOT co-exist.
The only way to win is not to play. I was married for less than 2 years. It cost me over 40k in legal fees; no kids, similar income. These lawyers should be hanged, drawn and quartered.
 

SW15

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The only way to win is not to play.
I agree. I don't see marriage as something that benefits me.

I was married for less than 2 years. It cost me over 40k in legal fees; no kids, similar income. These lawyers should be hanged, drawn and quartered.
That's terrible. Did you have to pay some settlement to your ex as a part of the childless divorce?
 

Pandora

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The only way to win is not to play. I was married for less than 2 years. It cost me over 40k in legal fees; no kids, similar income. These lawyers should be hanged, drawn and quartered.
Rick thats because it was a contested divorce right? Uncontested would have been a lot less correct?
 

SW15

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You don’t want a nuclear family?
Why would a man in his early 40s want children? That's likely to mess up his retirement.

I haven't ruled out having children but not very inclined to have them because of that reason. Also, I can have a nuclear family without the state getting involved too.
 

BillyPilgrim

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