Death of a Pickup Artist

[I am not a DJ]

Yep. Thats right... I'm not a PUA, and quite frankly I don't want to be. Confusing Tip I know, but let me explain.

I'm just going to say it all in whatever order I feel it coming, so bare with me gents.

I see alot of things on this board, alot of pain and suffering. I can identify with it, because i've been there, done that. And now it's time to help in any way I can... and I suppose the best way is to share.

I don't want to be a DJ. I don't have to be DJ. I'm ME. I don't want to be known as a pickup artist.. I don't want to believe that I know everything about life or women for that matter.. I hope I always remain a mystery to myself - it's good to surprise oneself every now and then.

Most of all. I don't want to high-five myself into thinking that i'm someone better because i've made women and the pursuit of women my focus in life. I don't want to turn the pleasures of passionate human relationships into pawns of an idea or theory. That scares me the most. I'm not going to squeeze my heart dry.

PUA: pickup artist. Doesn't the word just make you cringe? What a stupid title for an equally stupid job. And that's what it is you know: It's a job. How much material is on this board alone? Someone could rip off maybe a dozen long posts and write a book about it all. It's likely someone did already.

If someone were to say "My hobby? well i'm a pickup artist in my spare time!" Would you not laugh at them? I would. My maniacle laughter would just echo on on thinking about it. Turning a simple pleasure of life into a title? It's insane. Am I supposed to respect you for that decision?

You can be the best chess player... But that doesn't mean your happy.

I've been there you know, night after night, girl after girl. Putting on the nice clothes I didn't really want to wear... saying things I really didn't mean. Glossing over the details of my glorious bedroom escapades with my roomate and friends. I guess you could say I was top of the game.

Well luckily, this is now, and I can see clearly what a stupid game it was. All I did was play myself. Those glory days I indulged in left me empty. Looking back with a clear head allowed me to see the pain I was suffering, I was lonely - and each new girl drove me toward a deeper loneliness. Almost a sickening madness I would say.

I don't recognize the old me. Because something changed. It wasn't just the sex, it was the whole "game" in general. The rules, the same lines spoken over and over again. That dulling repetiveness that took so much of my time and energy.

If there's any sure way to kill the moment.. then following a rule is definately it.

And for what? I have my memories... which are fading. As are the faces of the women. Some I dated, some just sex, and others are just a haze of alchohol and crazy parties. And you know what? I feel guilty for it. Guilty for wasting my time and others time... I didn't know what I wanted.. I didn't know how to get it. But now I have it.

And i'm asking all of you to question the allmighty pickup artist... and see it for what it really is. A burden.

Training yourself as a PUA is the best way to kill your heart - You are not playing a game.. this is real life. You are worth more than that - and so are the women you desperately hope to win-over.

Yes. win. This site is about winning... winning something that should never be thought of as winnable. You can't win, only share and experience. If you keep playing "the game", how do you know that it's you she likes and not your game? I hope your willing to play for a long time my friend....

Come to think of it... A PUA is a travesty to everything that is man. A man's strength is his character, And I really don't believe adopting that of a PUA makes you any better. When I see these men at the bars, or clubs or wherever I have a certain bitter distaste for them - they're so BORING. Predictable - I feel bad for them, while loathing them as well. (probably because I saw my self)

They don't really see women any more, just techniques and strategies and a glimmer of hope at striking the right tune so that the night is complete. They sell themselves short for a title. To me, they aren't really living - they seem to enjoy flirting more with their own "game" than with the women themselves. That's a shame....

Some posts I read here sound like a tip's and tricks orgy.

I have a new term today: "anti-connectionist". Thats what a PUA is. Infact, thats what ANYBODY is who believes they are out to win something... to make something last longer than it's natural life.. to force something into existance. You can have a great convo - you can drop the right lines and style your hair the right way. You can WIN! but what are you winning? A connectionless frontier?

No thank you. I don't want that, nobody wants that. Not even women. But they respond to it... because we are all confused in this crazy game.

The blind leading the blind end up with blind love I guess.

I think all the women I knew felt it with me, I felt it.. but it took me a long time to comprehend it. And i'm sure those women will comprehend it as well.

Being a PUA means you are afraid, afraid of yourself, afraid of what you can accomplish without the title. The more you identify with being a "DJ" or a "PUA" the less space you'l have to simply be "you".

I did it. I didn't know any better. But something hapened and I dropped the whole stupid game like a bag of bricks.

BOOM! no more techniques or theories or trying to package women into a neat little freudian all explanatory package! IT FELT GREAT. and it still feels great.

Doing that allowed me to be at ease with myself and my surroundings, I wasn't "picking up" women any more... I was spending time with them. Instead of pickup lines and "witty" remarks, I was simply talking. Although I had met tons of girls before, it felt like the first time I had really met someone.

And you know, they really appreciated me for it.

Mister spiked hair and cologne turned into mister ratty old Molson Canadian baseball cap wearing untucked shirt and ratty jeans.

Suddenly, I became more interesting. Why? Because It was the real me... and the real me was more exciting and liveable than the PUA. It turns out I was always like this, I never liked dressing up for any occasion (exempting funerals and weddings and the like) and certainly not for dates.

How REFRESHING! The real me had more character than the professional who roamed the bars and clubs and bragged to my friends. And to top it off it was much more enjoyable!

Even my clothes had a story to tell, I didn't have to even try. I just talked the truth. "yep, this is my lucky hat, i've had it since i can remember, i'm never leaving it"

No premeditation. No thought. No ****y and funny.. Just the truth. I let my personality run free, and whether or not she likes it. Thats fine too.

(Still there? hehe) And that leads me to the end of my story (the present). Once I was out of the game, I understood the game. I could see the signals, and the body language a mile a way. Flags waving in open air for me to grasp.

But I didn't want it anymore. It didn't interest me. It had become boring. Tedious. Without fulfillment. And when I realized this, I was able to understand that what I really wanted was a meaningful connection with someone. NO games, just sharing.

It wasn't some drawn out search, or a mission or anything like that. I just waited for it to come. And when I found it. I made my move.

There was no rushing or mind-tricks. No waiting to call 3 days or "creating attraction". HAHAHA creating attraction? There was already attraction between us.. no need to create it..

And the rest is history. We had our bad times, we worked them out. We both knew what we wanted and stuck to it. I enabled myself to find a woman who respects me and loves me by throwing down this useless game. And I love her as well. It's certainly not blind love - I'm no fool. Things can happen. People will always be unpredictable. That includes me.

Yet, no matter what may happen between us... I sleep well at night. Because I have the one weapon that the PUA will never understand:

The only way to win is not to play.

and i have my lucky hat

 

[I am not a DJ]

Time for some fun...

I was just looking at the glossary of terms at fastseduction and found it quite good. I'm adding my own comments to ripen this experience..

Kiss close or **** close... depends on the context of what the person us talking about. Usually means kiss close. (also see: close, @close, # close)

Hey, do neither.. and that will create MYSTERY. riight?

101 Turning interest on, then off, then on, etc, not necessarily at regular intervals. Basically "hot & cold", sometimes you're good to a chick and sometimes you throw her a challenge, to keep her guessing and make you more unpredictable. A more elaborate form of 101 is "Push & Pull" method (by Swinggcat).

Sounds like too much work to me. Plus If you keep flicking that switch on and off you may break her.... stick to something simple like "have a good time"

3s / 3s rule 3 second rule. The rule that you should immediately try to meet a women within 3 seconds of seeing her (or her seeing you). 3 seconds isn't exactly literal, but the translation is "DO NOT HESITATE". Any hesitation will give you more time to falter and come up with fear-based excuses in your mind. It also give your target time to think negatively about you.

Whoah now, should I bring a stopwatch? Is 5 seconds okay? what about 6? No thats pushing it isn't it... I like the "target" reference. I guess according to this tip the faster you rush in, the less time she has to judge you on your character.... SCORE!

AMOG Alpha Male Other Guy - In reference to a situation where you are trying to close on a chick and there's direct (in-your-face) competition from another PUA. This is different than a ****block because the normal disarming strategies don't work.

AHAH.. disarming... bombsquad training? Here's how I diffuse the situation: Let the Alpha Male have her, she will feel undervalued and he'l feel like a chump. Are you trying to score? Or are you trying to get into a d1ck measuring contest?

***** shield Not a derogatory term - used to describe a behavior women use when attempting to fend of would-be suitors. Usually in use in clubs, bars, and other pick up places. Sometimes just referred to as a "shield".

Show her that you don't have the time nor the inclination to break through whatever shield she is emitting.... walk away and find a girl with a non-functioning shield.

DAI Dead Approach Invitation. Opening on an AI that turns sour and creates an Anti-AI response from the HB. Different than a crash & burn on a cold approach because it involves taking advantage of positive signals you detected from a chick. DAIs are rare if you know how to detect AIs properly.

What the hell is this? a transcript from a top-gun lesson?

DHV Display High Value (action/verb) or Display(s) of High(er) Value. An action or story which increases your perceived value

Way to treat yourself like a piece of meat.

Neg Hit A negative remark towards a girl designed to break her indifference to you by showing her that you are indifferent to her beauty (or other striking features).

I'm guessing this is related to the b1tch field or whatever. Why not find a woman who feels secure in recieving compliments instead...much easier that way.

one-itis A disorder commonly found in AFCs, that forces them to think that one chick is so special that they'll do ANYTHING to get into her panties. The most common cure for this disease is to go out and **** a Baker's Dozen of other chicks to see that one piece isn't that special. Also see the first question in the

I agree with the first part. Desperation can be a nasty thing. But forcing yourself to go on a fvcking spree for the sake of a "cure" will probably set back your rehabilition by quite a huge margin. You'l want her even more since your forcefully pushing her away....

Find closure... it's not even about fvcking other women.. it's about your view and emotions. Do you really think it's responsible to go out and do all that sh1t while your in that state? What does it accomplish?

* 1-7.5 is an UG
* 7.6-8.4 is a B or Babe
* 8.5-10 is a HB
* the TV gorgeous SHB (super hot babe) is 10.1+

Sigh. And the last part. Okay... how can you RATE anyone on a scale of one to ten for anything? WHAT THE HELL. There's even decimal places. is that nescesary? Like what? Aparently a womans entire figure can be deciphered using a scale BASED ON PERSONAL PREFERENCES? who needs pics..? just use the scale man.

Seriously, I hope decisions aren't made according to the scale... Better go with what you like. It's much safer that way. Besides, what if your preference was bigger women? Then I guess the biggest women you've ever met is a super hot babe to you.

Dont take any these terms seriously.. they don't help you make better dicisions. You'l just confuse yourself thinking about all these terms and scrambling to find all the matching behaviour in your "target".

 

[Life-Trainee]

Did you read Neil Strauss's "The Game"? I think everyone here will agree with you that routines are no substitute for personality. But would you have come to this realization have you not taken the path of a PUA?

 

[I am not a DJ]

Never heard of him.

But yes, i'm sure most people would agree that routines are no substitute for personality, but thats really not what I see here. This site is one huge tips and trips archive..with some life scripting thrown in for good measure, really. Thats all it is.

Check for yourself. Everyone seems to unanimously agree with the 3 day rule of phone calling...

I don't recall reading any posts saying "do what you feel". That's better advice than listing a rule, or saying "GET OVER IT DUDE!!"

It makes no diference whether or not you are a PUA to understand what i'm saying. Maybe someone will read my post and a sliver of information will grow into a seed of realization that the game is in actuality... bringing him down. It can work in reverse as well. He doesn't have to be some Don Juan to understand it. Anyone can.

You can become a good chess player simply by watching the game unfold. From the outside perspective you see all the moves, and where they lead.

BUT by all means, if you want to live the PUA lifestyle, if your so inclined to it - then do it. If your mind is set on it. then Do it. But just remember as you progress in skill - reading books and posts is still just adopting another view.

The don juan or pickup artist is a crutch..... when you feel that you've absorbed the information you need. Drop the crutches. Thats how I feel about this site and all the philosphy and tricks.

 

[Skydiver43127]

bump
This site should be about exchanging interesting ideas and breaking bad habits. Not about "Bob's Fast-O-Matic routine for getting laid".

 

[reyalp]

cliffs please

 

[ADifferentKindofDJ]

All though there are a lot of good points here, I think you have made a DJ and a PUA the same thing. They're not. You'll need to find that out for yourself. Look to posters Pook, MotU(Master of the Universe) and Anti-Dump, and lots of others to see what I mean.

But briefly:
A DJ is not a PUA. A dj strives for self improvement to become the 'man' he wants to be. Women are not his life, they will come into his life, yes, but he is busy doing what matters most: Living life to its fullest. (It sounds like your at this point.)

While I do agree that there has been a lot of posting on how to 'get women', there has also been a lot of posts on the DJ way. I'm wondering if these how to 'get' women posts are because colleges are back in session?? Who knows... My point is that there is a difference between the two.

ADKdj

 

[ER!C L!VE]

Originally posted by I am not a DJ

Training yourself as a PUA is the best way to kill your heart - You are not playing a game.. this is real life.

For a second, let's assume that your theory, "Training yourself as a PUA is the best way to kill your heart" is true. If it is true, then I would rather have my heart 'killed' by being a PUA or DJ than have it 'killed' via lost love.

In 1992, my heart was 'killed' when my girlfriend cheated on me. My girl and I were in love for over a year, before she cheated. I found out and dumped her. For two weeks afterwards, I stopped eating, cried constantly and I dropped out of a few college courses because I couldn't study. I still thought about her 5 years after it happened. I'd gladly read some seduction books and bang girls to 'kill' my heart instead of going through that shit again.

Also, life is a game. It's also a stage...it's many things


EDIT: Man, I just started to read more of your post.

Originally posted by I am not a DJ
Being a PUA means you are afraid, afraid of yourself, afraid of what you can accomplish without the title.

You have a skewed view of seduction websites. We're here to share knowledge and learn. I can't use the title PUA or DJ to get a girl. However, I can use knowledge to get a girl.

Anyway, I shouldn't have responded to you. You clearly have no clue what the community is about.

:cheer:

 

[reyalp]

Re: Re: Death of a Pickup Artist

Originally posted by ER!C L!VE


You have no idea what being a PUA and/or DJ is about. I shouldn't have responded to you. You clearly have no clue what the community is about.
:cheer:

lol you're spot on, the OP is clueless.

long-winded and clueless, at that.

and OP, my request for cliffs notes still stands.

 

[I am not a DJ]

Good to see some responses

To "ADifferentKindofDJ" : My bad. I can see that A DJ is not the same thing as a PUA. I just used those words hap-hazzardly because they're thrown around this site alot.

Just to clear the air... this thread is entirely about PUA's - If a DJ is about being all you can be. Then i'm all for that. Unfortunately, most of the board is PUA material. And it's in your best interest to avoid it.

"ER!C L!VE" :

then I would rather have my heart 'killed' by being a PUA or DJ than have it 'killed' via lost love

The normal reaction to pain, is to dull it. To dull our senses into not registering it at all. This is normal, because without that.. we wouldn't be able to function in our daily lives. (as you said yourself... you dropped out of some courses and you couldn't concentrate). It's actually a good thing you adopted that mentality, or else you wouldn't function at all.

I've been there, done that. Along with probably EVERYONE on this board.

The important thing is to take that horrible experience and turn into something tangible. You accept that what happened was nescesary, and you move on.. turning the anger and dissapointment into something useful.

Thats what I mean by

being a PUA means you are afraid

.
A pickup artist, or someone who follows rules, guidelines and strategies, hasn't yet registered the pain... because.. well. its painful.. who wants to do that? It's much easier to turn yourself into a machine than it is to realize your human. Thats why most of the posts have machine like logic to them. It's crazy, but it's true. And for some reason... Us men are experts at doing this. It's easier to believe we are safe and top of our game by making up silly rules to "guide" us.

It's something we have to un-learn, and quickly. Because it simply does not work. A PUA takes it too far, and now takes it so seriously it has become his "style".

Your own words are the key to what i'm trying to convey: I would rather have my heart 'killed' by being a PUA or DJ than have it 'killed' via lost love .

Basically, you believe that you have no choice; that no matter what the outcome your heart will be killed. So you've decided to remove your heart all together from the equation. You don't want to form a connection.

Which is why I said earlier that a PUA is an "anti-connectionist". The Pickup Artist is a defense mechanism. Thats all it is bro's....

I don't blame you for hating my post - you identified with something I said, something that effected you. It must have hit you somehow. Look, i'm not trying to sh1t on your riff, or tell you what to do with your life or anything like that. Consider your own words:

I would rather have my heart 'killed' by being a PUA or DJ than have it 'killed' via lost love

So you really believe your destined for a life of heart crushings? You owe yourself more than that. Infact, why choose to kill your heart at all? For what? Why?

Whats the point of being a PUA or a DJ if your hearts shriveled and decayed anyways? You won't even be able to love yourself.

 

[I am not a DJ]

I just checked out some of Pook's, Master Of the Universe and Anti-Dump posts.

Anti-dump's views struck me as a brilliant piece of work. I enjoyed it alot, I can relate to what he's saying.. although some of it was a bit too cold for my tastes.

Those were indeed good posts, posts to make you think, not tell you what to think. (or do) for that matter.

This board can be a great thing for guys, but you have to choose the right way of absobring the information.

And as for the cliff notes... Before a date - scribble important information on the inside of your arm.. (example: convo skills or convo openers). Whenever nescesary, distract your date and glance at the information and use accordingly. Repeat until target has returned to your pad and is removing clothing.

Tip #1: Be sure to wear a longsleeve shirt.

Tip #2: DO NOT under any circumstances be caught checking your arm. This could have disastrous consequences on your targets willingness to get busy with you.

 

[bbestar]

Originally posted by I am not a DJ
Yep. Thats right... I'm not a PUA, and quite frankly I don't want to be. Confusing Tip I know, but let me explain.

I'm just going to say it all in whatever order I feel it coming, so bare with me gents.

I see alot of things on this board, alot of pain and suffering. I can identify with it, because i've been there, done that. And now it's time to help in any way I can... and I suppose the best way is to share.

I don't want to be a DJ. I don't have to be DJ. I'm ME. I don't want to be known as a pickup artist.. I don't want to believe that I know everything about life or women for that matter.. I hope I always remain a mystery to myself - it's good to surprise oneself every now and then.

Most of all. I don't want to high-five myself into thinking that i'm someone better because i've made women and the pursuit of women my focus in life. I don't want to turn the pleasures of passionate human relationships into pawns of an idea or theory. That scares me the most. I'm not going to squeeze my heart dry.

PUA: pickup artist. Doesn't the word just make you cringe? What a stupid title for an equally stupid job. And that's what it is you know: It's a job. How much material is on this board alone? Someone could rip off maybe a dozen long posts and write a book about it all. It's likely someone did already.

If someone were to say "My hobby? well i'm a pickup artist in my spare time!" Would you not laugh at them? I would. My maniacle laughter would just echo on on thinking about it. Turning a simple pleasure of life into a title? It's insane. Am I supposed to respect you for that decision?

You can be the best chess player... But that doesn't mean your happy.

I've been there you know, night after night, girl after girl. Putting on the nice clothes I didn't really want to wear... saying things I really didn't mean. Glossing over the details of my glorious bedroom escapades with my roomate and friends. I guess you could say I was top of the game.

Well luckily, this is now, and I can see clearly what a stupid game it was. All I did was play myself. Those glory days I indulged in left me empty. Looking back with a clear head allowed me to see the pain I was suffering, I was lonely - and each new girl drove me toward a deeper loneliness. Almost a sickening madness I would say.

I don't recognize the old me. Because something changed. It wasn't just the sex, it was the whole "game" in general. The rules, the same lines spoken over and over again. That dulling repetiveness that took so much of my time and energy.

If there's any sure way to kill the moment.. then following a rule is definately it.

And for what? I have my memories... which are fading. As are the faces of the women. Some I dated, some just sex, and others are just a haze of alchohol and crazy parties. And you know what? I feel guilty for it. Guilty for wasting my time and others time... I didn't know what I wanted.. I didn't know how to get it. But now I have it.

And i'm asking all of you to question the allmighty pickup artist... and see it for what it really is. A burden.

Training yourself as a PUA is the best way to kill your heart - You are not playing a game.. this is real life. You are worth more than that - and so are the women you desperately hope to win-over.

Yes. win. This site is about winning... winning something that should never be thought of as winnable. You can't win, only share and experience. If you keep playing "the game", how do you know that it's you she likes and not your game? I hope your willing to play for a long time my friend....

Come to think of it... A PUA is a travesty to everything that is man. A man's strength is his character, And I really don't believe adopting that of a PUA makes you any better. When I see these men at the bars, or clubs or wherever I have a certain bitter distaste for them - they're so BORING. Predictable - I feel bad for them, while loathing them as well. (probably because I saw my self)

They don't really see women any more, just techniques and strategies and a glimmer of hope at striking the right tune so that the night is complete. They sell themselves short for a title. To me, they aren't really living - they seem to enjoy flirting more with their own "game" than with the women themselves. That's a shame....

Some posts I read here sound like a tip's and tricks orgy.

I have a new term today: "anti-connectionist". Thats what a PUA is. Infact, thats what ANYBODY is who believes they are out to win something... to make something last longer than it's natural life.. to force something into existance. You can have a great convo - you can drop the right lines and style your hair the right way. You can WIN! but what are you winning? A connectionless frontier?

No thank you. I don't want that, nobody wants that. Not even women. But they respond to it... because we are all confused in this crazy game.

The blind leading the blind end up with blind love I guess.

I think all the women I knew felt it with me, I felt it.. but it took me a long time to comprehend it. And i'm sure those women will comprehend it as well.

Being a PUA means you are afraid, afraid of yourself, afraid of what you can accomplish without the title. The more you identify with being a "DJ" or a "PUA" the less space you'l have to simply be "you".

I did it. I didn't know any better. But something hapened and I dropped the whole stupid game like a bag of bricks.

BOOM! no more techniques or theories or trying to package women into a neat little freudian all explanatory package! IT FELT GREAT. and it still feels great.

Doing that allowed me to be at ease with myself and my surroundings, I wasn't "picking up" women any more... I was spending time with them. Instead of pickup lines and "witty" remarks, I was simply talking. Although I had met tons of girls before, it felt like the first time I had really met someone.

And you know, they really appreciated me for it.

Mister spiked hair and cologne turned into mister ratty old Molson Canadian baseball cap wearing untucked shirt and ratty jeans.

Suddenly, I became more interesting. Why? Because It was the real me... and the real me was more exciting and liveable than the PUA. It turns out I was always like this, I never liked dressing up for any occasion (exempting funerals and weddings and the like) and certainly not for dates.

How REFRESHING! The real me had more character than the professional who roamed the bars and clubs and bragged to my friends. And to top it off it was much more enjoyable!

Even my clothes had a story to tell, I didn't have to even try. I just talked the truth. "yep, this is my lucky hat, i've had it since i can remember, i'm never leaving it"

No premeditation. No thought. No ****y and funny.. Just the truth. I let my personality run free, and whether or not she likes it. Thats fine too.

(Still there? hehe) And that leads me to the end of my story (the present). Once I was out of the game, I understood the game. I could see the signals, and the body language a mile a way. Flags waving in open air for me to grasp.

But I didn't want it anymore. It didn't interest me. It had become boring. Tedious. Without fulfillment. And when I realized this, I was able to understand that what I really wanted was a meaningful connection with someone. NO games, just sharing.

It wasn't some drawn out search, or a mission or anything like that. I just waited for it to come. And when I found it. I made my move.

There was no rushing or mind-tricks. No waiting to call 3 days or "creating attraction". HAHAHA creating attraction? There was already attraction between us.. no need to create it..

And the rest is history. We had our bad times, we worked them out. We both knew what we wanted and stuck to it. I enabled myself to find a woman who respects me and loves me by throwing down this useless game. And I love her as well. It's certainly not blind love - I'm no fool. Things can happen. People will always be unpredictable. That includes me.

Yet, no matter what may happen between us... I sleep well at night. Because I have the one weapon that the PUA will never understand:

The only way to win is not to play.

and i have my lucky hat

Looks like u won't be makin them thousands of dollars like mystery and neil strauss, being financially secure for life. Oh well, as long as your happy

 

[Duke]

My responses preceeded by ">>"

Originally posted by I am not a DJ
Yep. Thats right... I'm not a PUA, and quite frankly I don't want to be. Confusing Tip I know, but let me explain.

I'm just going to say it all in whatever order I feel it coming, so bare with me gents.

I see alot of things on this board, alot of pain and suffering. I can identify with it, because i've been there, done that. And now it's time to help in any way I can... and I suppose the best way is to share.

I don't want to be a DJ. I don't have to be DJ. I'm ME. I don't want to be known as a pickup artist.. I don't want to believe that I know everything about life or women for that matter.. I hope I always remain a mystery to myself - it's good to surprise oneself every now and then.

>>Awesome.

Most of all. I don't want to high-five myself into thinking that i'm someone better because i've made women and the pursuit of women my focus in life. I don't want to turn the pleasures of passionate human relationships into pawns of an idea or theory. That scares me the most. I'm not going to squeeze my heart dry.

PUA: pickup artist. Doesn't the word just make you cringe?

>>No.

What a stupid title for an equally stupid job. And that's what it is you know: It's a job.

>>To you, it's a job. For others, it's a hobby.

How much material is on this board alone? Someone could rip off maybe a dozen long posts and write a book about it all. It's likely someone did already.

If someone were to say "My hobby? well i'm a pickup artist in my spare time!" Would you not laugh at them? I would. My maniacle laughter would just echo on on thinking about it.

>>That's cool man. You can keep laughing while I go get laid. Society at large think it's ridiculous to study something like social dynamics or picking up women. Nothing new here.

Turning a simple pleasure of life into a title? It's insane. Am I supposed to respect you for that decision?

>>Nope. It's not about getting approval, it's about results.

You can be the best chess player... But that doesn't mean your happy.

>>But if chess is one of your passions, then it doesn't mean you won't be happym either.

I've been there you know, night after night, girl after girl. Putting on the nice clothes I didn't really want to wear... saying things I really didn't mean. Glossing over the details of my glorious bedroom escapades with my roomate and friends. I guess you could say I was top of the game.

Well luckily, this is now, and I can see clearly what a stupid game it was. All I did was play myself. Those glory days I indulged in left me empty. Looking back with a clear head allowed me to see the pain I was suffering, I was lonely - and each new girl drove me toward a deeper loneliness. Almost a sickening madness I would say.

>>That's just your experience. In my experience, consciously socializing and learning about this stuff has improved my life tenfold.

I don't recognize the old me. Because something changed. It wasn't just the sex, it was the whole "game" in general. The rules, the same lines spoken over and over again. That dulling repetiveness that took so much of my time and energy.

If there's any sure way to kill the moment.. then following a rule is definately it.

And for what? I have my memories... which are fading. As are the faces of the women. Some I dated, some just sex, and others are just a haze of alchohol and crazy parties. And you know what? I feel guilty for it. Guilty for wasting my time and others time... I didn't know what I wanted.. I didn't know how to get it. But now I have it.

And i'm asking all of you to question the allmighty pickup artist... and see it for what it really is. A burden.

Training yourself as a PUA is the best way to kill your heart - You are not playing a game.. this is real life. You are worth more than that - and so are the women you desperately hope to win-over.

>>So real life isn't a game? "Real life" is supposed to be dead serious? It's all about the way you look at things.

Yes. win. This site is about winning... winning something that should never be thought of as winnable. You can't win, only share and experience. If you keep playing "the game", how do you know that it's you she likes and not your game?

>>WTF are you talking about? She likes the emotions that you make her feel. The majority of women won't give a SH!T about you if you can't make them feel good emotions, and rightfully so. Why would anyone want to hang with ANYONE who didn't enrich their lives? A lot of guys in the community are good people who logically deserve women, but they never got them, because they never learned how to trigger the emotions necessary to get them. So your question is moot. If "you" isn't attractive to women and you want women, then YOU need to change. If you naturally internalized attractive behavior and don't feel a need to change, great. If you never internalized attractive behavior and are happy masturbating, great. No one's forcing you to change.


I hope your willing to play for a long time my friend....

Come to think of it... A PUA is a travesty to everything that is man. A man's strength is his character, And I really don't believe adopting that of a PUA makes you any better.

>>Being a PUA BUILDS CHARACTER. How many guys can set aside their ego and go out to clubs alone and approach hot women? How many men can move on from rejection after rejection to achieve their goals?

When I see these men at the bars, or clubs or wherever I have a certain bitter distaste for them - they're so BORING. Predictable - I feel bad for them, while loathing them as well. (probably because I saw my self)

>>If the guys you witness in bars are boring girls, then they are AFCs, not PUAs.

They don't really see women any more, just techniques and strategies and a glimmer of hope at striking the right tune so that the night is complete.

>>Wrong. Mystery, TD, Badboy, and other PUAs LOVE women. I love women. It's part of the reason I'm in the game. I don't see women as 1's and 0s. But at the same time, I'm not afraid to be realistic and admit that human behavior follows patterns. It seems to me that those who run away from the concept of pickup are afraid of the notion that humans are not gods. If I want a specific outcome (sex, LTR, etc), and there are ways that I can develop my personality and behavior to help me get those outcomes, why not be open-minded about it and try it out? It's NOT dishonest, because you aren't lying to anyone. You are just adapting yourself, like every living thing in nature must do to survive and procreate.

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by I am not a DJ


They sell themselves short for a title. To me, they aren't really living - they seem to enjoy flirting more with their own "game" than with the women themselves. That's a shame....

>>Umm, what?

Some posts I read here sound like a tip's and tricks orgy.

I have a new term today: "anti-connectionist". Thats what a PUA is. Infact, thats what ANYBODY is who believes they are out to win something... to make something last longer than it's natural life.. to force something into existance. You can have a great convo - you can drop the right lines and style your hair the right way. You can WIN! but what are you winning? A connectionless frontier?

>>When first meeting a woman, you are NOT meeting the real her. Most women at clubs aren't b!tches. You are meeting their "social personas." Pickup is a way of getting past that "social persona" in order to find the real woman. In that sense, pickup is ENTIRELY about connection.

No thank you. I don't want that, nobody wants that. Not even women. But they respond to it... because we are all confused in this crazy game.

>>Excuse me? WTF are you trying to say? This looks to me like some kind of vague, overly emotional drivel.

The blind leading the blind end up with blind love I guess.

I think all the women I knew felt it with me, I felt it.. but it took me a long time to comprehend it. And i'm sure those women will comprehend it as well.

Being a PUA means you are afraid, afraid of yourself, afraid of what you can accomplish without the title. The more you identify with being a "DJ" or a "PUA" the less space you'l have to simply be "you".

>>What is "you" but a collection of learned behaviors and thought patterns? Is your ego so big that you think you are perfect the way you are and don't need to ever feature changing yourself? That seems very self-absorbed and arrogant to me. "You" is a fluid concept. If your "default" personality gets you chicks, cool. But a lot of guys just lack social the social intelligence to get girls. Why should they feel guilty about learning how to socially interact and be cool? They shouldn't.

I did it. I didn't know any better. But something hapened and I dropped the whole stupid game like a bag of bricks.

BOOM! no more techniques or theories or trying to package women into a neat little freudian all explanatory package! IT FELT GREAT. and it still feels great.

>>Well good for you.

Doing that allowed me to be at ease with myself and my surroundings, I wasn't "picking up" women any more... I was spending time with them. Instead of pickup lines and "witty" remarks, I was simply talking. Although I had met tons of girls before, it felt like the first time I had really met someone.

>>That's cool. And I think that once guys get good and internalize healthy thought patterns and effective social behaviors, they'll be able to do that too.

And you know, they really appreciated me for it.

>>That's in your head. What women appreciate is a guy who can make them feel strong emotions and eliminate bad feelings caused by their social conditioning. If you can do that, then great. I'm sure they DO appreciate your internalized pickup abilities. But don't kid yourself into thinking girls would be attracted to you if you were a nerd with no social intelligence just on the basis of your personality.

Mister spiked hair and cologne turned into mister ratty old Molson Canadian baseball cap wearing untucked shirt and ratty jeans.

>>Congrats.

Suddenly, I became more interesting. Why?

>>Because you felt incongruent taking on an attractive persona and are more comfortable being the "old you."

Because It was the real me... and the real me was more exciting and liveable than the PUA. It turns out I was always like this, I never liked dressing up for any occasion (exempting funerals and weddings and the like) and certainly not for dates.

How REFRESHING! The real me had more character than the professional who roamed the bars and clubs and bragged to my friends. And to top it off it was much more enjoyable!

>>Translation: I am not comfortable with personal change. I derive good emotions from remaining static and staying in the comfort bubble I've always lived in.

Even my clothes had a story to tell, I didn't have to even try. I just talked the truth. "yep, this is my lucky hat, i've had it since i can remember, i'm never leaving it"

No premeditation. No thought. No ****y and funny.. Just the truth. I let my personality run free, and whether or not she likes it. Thats fine too.

>>Refer to my above translation once again.

(Still there? hehe) And that leads me to the end of my story (the present). Once I was out of the game, I understood the game. I could see the signals, and the body language a mile a way. Flags waving in open air for me to grasp.

>>Would you have been able to see the body language indicators of interest without your stint as a PUA? Doubtful.

But I didn't want it anymore. It didn't interest me. It had become boring. Tedious. Without fulfillment. And when I realized this, I was able to understand that what I really wanted was a meaningful connection with someone. NO games, just sharing.

>>Cue the sappy music. I'm sure the Walt Disney company is very happy you're buying into their fairy tale.

It wasn't some drawn out search, or a mission or anything like that. I just waited for it to come. And when I found it. I made my move.

There was no rushing or mind-tricks. No waiting to call 3 days or "creating attraction". HAHAHA creating attraction? There was already attraction between us..

>>Because you're unconsciously doing sh!t ASF and sosuave advocates. Trust me man. You're giving yourself waaaay too much credit. You like to believe that "YOU" are attractive, when "YOU" is only attractive because of certain thought patterns and behaviors--> which are exactly what's discussed here for guys who haven't internalized them as you have.

no need to create it..

And the rest is history. We had our bad times, we worked them out. We both knew what we wanted and stuck to it. I enabled myself to find a woman who respects me and loves me by throwing down this useless game.

>>Useless? So this game is USELESS to the millions of former AFCs like me who turned their lives around and started doing better with women and with social interactions in general? Dude, stop talking out your ass. PLEASE.

And I love her as well. It's certainly not blind love - I'm no fool. Things can happen. People will always be unpredictable. That includes me.

Yet, no matter what may happen between us... I sleep well at night. Because I have the one weapon that the PUA will never understand:

The only way to win is not to play.

>>Again, vague drivel.

and i have my lucky hat

 

[I am not a DJ]

What is "you" but a collection of learned behaviors and thought patterns? Is your ego so big that you think you are perfect the way you are and don't need to ever feature changing yourself? That seems very self-absorbed and arrogant to me. "You" is a fluid concept. If your "default" personality gets you chicks, cool. But a lot of guys just lack social the social intelligence to get girls. Why should they feel guilty about learning how to socially interact and be cool? They shouldn't.

I don't think i'm perfect. And it's not egotistical to be comfortable with yourself. And if someone feels "guilty" about what i've said here - then they have to deal with that themselves. You can't "make" anyone feel guilty, and it's certainly not my intention.

A..... I dunno, your last statement is disturbing to me - "learning how to be cool". Why be cool?

Because you're unconsciously doing sh!t ASF and sosuave advocates. Trust me man. You're giving yourself waaaay too much credit. You like to believe that "YOU" are attractive, when "YOU" is only attractive because of certain thought patterns and behaviors--> which are exactly what's discussed here for guys who haven't internalized them as you have.

Your the one who's giving me too much credit. Your saying that i've "internalized" all of the wonderful information on this site, and thats why I'm the way I am? Also, way to inadvertently state that people should just copy my behaviour. (since according to you, i've "internalized" it.)

See.. THATS egotistical

once guys get good and internalize healthy thought patterns and effective social behaviors, they'll be able to do that too

Do what? What's a healthy behaviour....? ... the way I behave? (i've internalized it aparently) Behave the way the Don Juan bible says you should behave? It's something you really can't define. How do you know when a guy is "good"? When you think his learned behaviour reaches its totality? WTH, now I'm CONFUSED.

The majority of women won't give a SH!T about you if you can't make them feel good emotions, and rightfully so

Why are you catering to other peoples emotions? Any particular reason why you are focused on making a women "feel good emotions" ? Just being yourself should be enough. The nail in the coffin is your last statement. "and rightfully so".

Now you've backed yourself into a corner... Putting all the responsibility on your shoulders... If the girl "doesn't give a SH1T about you".. Then it must be that your not making her "feel good emotions". And...... rightfully so?

Sounds like a headache to me. You don't have to 'make' anyone feel good for any reason. Thats not your responsiblity. Thats why I think PUA's are going in reverse - they end up changing their personalities in order to please women. (often, the very same women they claim "not to give a sh1t about")

"I better change my personality to reflect a certain number of behaviours to appear attractive to women"...

Thats what I see here.

 

[Duke]

I'm saying you've reached a certain point in your life where you think you don't need the community anymore. And that's cool. If you're getting chicks, then you're DOING what this site and ASF advocate-- even if you aren't doing it consciously. Fact is, you didn't get to where you were now by "just being yourself." You reached this point in your life and your conclusion from going out and interacting with women. What makes you think other guys can skip that process?


A..... I dunno, your last statement is disturbing to me - "learning how to be cool". Why be cool?

"Learning to be cool" grants a person social influence and choice with women.
If you're not cool (low social value), have fun with UGs.

Why are you catering to other peoples emotions? Any particular reason why you are focused on making a women "feel good emotions" ?

OMG this is super-obvious. To induce her to fvck you. This is the SEDUCTION community.

Just being yourself should be enough.

Yes, in an ideal reality it would be. Unfortunately, here in the real world, many guys have not internalized attractive behaviors and hold fvcked up beliefs about themselves. Women justifiably run away from these guys. These guys have nothing to contribute to a woman's life that she can't get elsewhere.

The nail in the coffin is your last statement. "and rightfully so".

Now you've backed yourself into a corner... Putting all the responsibility on your shoulders... If the girl "doesn't give a SH1T about you".. Then it must be that your not making her "feel good emotions". And...... rightfully so?

Bro, this is so mind-numbingly obvious. If you can't gave a girl emotionally reacting to you, then there is very little chance you're going to fvck her unless you offer up value in some sort of other way: parties, money, good looks, fame. Most guys don't have these things, and those things aren't genuine ANYWAY. Emotions are how people connect. A hot girl will have dozens of guys approaching her at a club, and even more approaching her on a daily basis in (what they think are) subtle ways. Unless you can get her reacting emotionally you are JUST ANOTHER GUY. AND RIGHTFULLY SO. I don't see how I can clarify this to you anymore. A fat slob with no game doesn't have an inborn right to fvck hot girls simply BECAUSE. Value. Making people react to you= value.

Sounds like a headache to me. You don't have to 'make' anyone feel good for any reason. Thats not your responsiblity. Thats why I think PUA's are going in reverse - they end up changing their personalities in order to please women. (often, the very same women they claim "not to give a sh1t about")

No, nobody "has" to make anyone feel good. But good luck seducing someone without it. Remember, this is a SEDUCTION COMMUNITY.

What's wrong with changing your personality to get a desired result? What if a lazy person wants to be an olympic champion? He would have to change his personality so that he had drive and motivation.

It's the same with a person who isn't socially intelligent and wants hot girls. If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always gotten. So if you're happy where you are, just be yourself. If you're not, CHANGE.

 

[Beethoven]

This is my first post in a long while, but I just wanted to say I feel where you're coming from. Too much PUA training really sucks the life out of you.

I sure plan to enjoy a lot more 'me' and a lot less of the tiring, repetitive artificial stuff I've been stuck in for too long already.

In short, thanks for posting!

 

[I am not a DJ]

Well, what can I say. Your post in brief is generally: Change your personality to get girls; use emotional triggering and other social attraction theories to get what you want/be top of the game.

While my posts have generally been about avoding the game - and playing your own rules - whatever they may be.

Thats what our conversation has boiled down to. And I suppose, that's what it was in the beggining anyway.
Yes, this is a seduction website - and of course that's my weakness. I have no seduction techniques to give you. To me, there are none, and never were. I think everything that needed to be said has been said already - if we keep going like this, were just going to keep piling up quote after quote, point after point until the thread is a flame war.


So on that note, i'm stepping out - and it's up to the readers to decide.



Thanks all for participating, hope this helps someone out.



Peace.

 

[reyalp]

Well, your departure is long overdue.


However, there is good news:
You don't have to leave it up to us decide.
We already knew that you were a fool, but you kept talking and proved us right.
I also saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico.

 

[organizedconfusion]

Originally posted by reyalp
Well, your departure is long overdue.


However, there is good news:
You don't have to leave it up to us decide.
We already knew that you were a fool, but you kept talking and proved us right.
I also saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico.

:crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: