Dating non-exclusively

[RedPill]

This thread is intended to be an extension of a couple different ideas which have been discussed in prior threads.

Among others: Plate Theory; Deal Breakers; Girls who use you for sex; It's time to start playing the game like a woman

I’m at a stage in my life development where I have zero time or desire to engage in an exclusive, monogamous relationship with a woman. I’m sure many others here can (or should) be able to relate. I make no bones about this with the women I get with, that I’m not interested in anything beyond casual dating. The only thing I’m interested in is occasional companionship and sex.

So far, so good, right? Here’s the kicker – every woman that I see casually ends up wanting more or getting upset that I don’t call enough, etc. I know it’s because of how I make them feel when I’m with them, and because women are wired to secure an exclusive provider. They feel very comfortable with me because I’m very laid-back and non-judgmental, can make them laugh, and the sex is usually fantastic. That, and they get the sense that I have a very solid sense of direction with what I’m trying to achieve in life. I know that might sound a bit self-absorbed.

What’s interesting is that over the last few years, as I’ve gotten my proverbial ‘sh1t together’, and morphed from socially clueless chump to carrying a masculine frame of self worth, slowly over time there’s been a role reversal. I’ve gone from being the heart-broken to the heart-breaker, and having been on the other side of the coin I feel somewhat of a responsibility to keep women from developing oneitis for me.

That's been my experience over the last year or two. I'm not looking for any particular advice to resolve any particular issue, but would be interested in hearing the experiences, beliefs, and anecdotal wisdom of fellow posters here regarding dating non-exclusively.

Questions for the Mature Man gang:

• What are your experiences with managing expectations in non-exclusive dating scenarios?
• Do you think it’s inevitable that most women who find you attractive are going to have a hard time with keeping it casual?
• How do you tactfully go about dropping plates that are getting clingy because they aren’t accepting of your relationship parameters? Or, dropping them because more desirable plates have entered the picture and you just plain don't have the time/inclination to keep them in the mix?
• Should a man be concerned about the wake of emotional fallout that can result from exploring his options without shame?
• Does a man (or woman for that matter) who knows they are the less interested party right from the outset have a moral obligation to manage the emotional vulnerability of the more interested party?

[Also, for anyone who participates in the chat discussions that have been ongoing on Sunday evenings, this is the topic for the next one and I’m hoping this thread can serve as a primer for it.]

 

[woods]

Has any chick ever given a fvck about your feelings in the same situation? Has any chick ever stuck to a "moral obligation?" Every girl you drop, probably has AFC's pissed and hurt over the crap she pulled with them. Before you feel guilty about doing it to them, remember that she most likely ENJOYS doing it.

nuff said.

 

[guru1000]

Questions for the Mature Man gang:
What are your experiences with managing expectations in non-exclusive dating scenarios?
Do you think it’s inevitable that most women who find you attractive are going to have a hard time with keeping it casual?
How do you tactfully go about dropping plates that are getting clingy because they aren’t accepting of your relationship parameters? Or, dropping them because more desirable plates have entered the picture and you just plain don't have the time/inclination to keep them in the mix?
Should a man be concerned about the wake of emotional fallout that can result from exploring his options without shame?
Does a man (or woman for that matter) who knows they are the less interested party right from the outset have a moral obligation to manage the emotional vulnerability of the more interested party?

Very good thread.

It is not your JOB to manage EXPECTATIONS for a non exclusive plate.

I believe in FULL DISCLOSURE. As long as it is UNDERSTOOD at one point that you are not exclusive, your HONORABLE duty is done.

I recently have come across a situation where a plate, who happened to be the only one I was seeing at the time, STUMBLED across this site (overlooking my shoulder one day) and saw every post I have written. In her utter perceived SHOCK, she told me " I am heart broken".

Yet in the beginning I made it unequivocally CLEAR that we are not EXCLUSIVE. As she reads this, it probably still does not REGISTER.

Women have that old fairy tale fantasy of meeting their knight in shining armor and then living happily ever after. This is not REALITY.

A woman is not OWED an explanation especially when NON EXCLUSIVITY is FULLY DISCLOSED.

It is not your moral obligation to cater to her ONEITUS. A woman will BLAME and ASSIGN responsibility to you for BREAKING HER when is fact she broke herself. She ALLOWED herself to paint a picture of the KNIGHT who will marry her when it was made CLEAR in the beginning what this relationsip entails.

To this you should not feel GUILT or SHAME.

If I fully disclose my MOTIVE to an individual, I relinquish all liability to that individual. If that individual CHOOSES to continue with the HOPE of it turning into a fruitful endeavor then that is a RISK she must take.

At the end of the day, most women will not accept responsibility for their feelings and use a SCAPEGOAT(you) to justify their pain.

This plate had potential but lacked a MATURE perspective.

 

[My Name is Nobody]

I recently have come across a situation where a plate, who happened to be the only one I was seeing at the time, STUMBLED across this site (overlooking my shoulder one day) and saw every post I have written. In her utter perceived SHOCK, she told me " I am heart broken".

It was Iqqi wasn't it? So that's how she found this site.

 

[potato]

Questions for the Mature Man gang:

*What are your experiences with managing expectations in non-exclusive dating scenarios?

I’m not sure exactly, but it seems that just the way the interaction goes, whatever expectations are obvious. Don’t all relationships pretty much begin as non-exclusive and become exclusive? You only let it go as far as you want it to go.

* Do you think it’s inevitable that most women who find you attractive are going to have a hard time with keeping it casual?

I think that every woman who is attracted to me, with whom I develop some type of relationship with, expects that I will become and remain a part of her life. That doesn’t mean that you can’t keep it casual.

* How do you tactfully go about dropping plates that are getting clingy because they aren’t accepting of your relationship parameters? Or, dropping them because more desirable plates have entered the picture and you just plain don't have the time/inclination to keep them in the mix?

I have a horrible time breaking it off with women, even ones I’ve totally lost interest in. Typically though, with the ones with whom I have a weak interest, thing tend to just naturally fade away.

* Should a man be concerned about the wake of emotional fallout that can result from exploring his options without shame?

* Does a man (or woman for that matter) who knows they are the less interested party right from the outset have a moral obligation to manage the emotional vulnerability of the more interested party?

I think so. Ever so often I encounter a woman who has an interest in me but for whom I have little interest in her. In most cases I could easily use these women but I never do.

 

[penkitten]

redpill this thread is wonderful, and i am going to have to think about how to go about answering your questions. (they have completely stumped little old me)

can't wait for tomorrows chat

 

[Drum&Bass]

Questions for the Mature Man gang:

* What are your experiences with managing expectations in non-exclusive dating scenarios?

If its after sex, the woman ALWAYS gets attached (save a few exceptions)

* Do you think it’s inevitable that most women who find you attractive are going to have a hard time with keeping it casual?

Hell yea.

* How do you tactfully go about dropping plates that are getting clingy because they aren’t accepting of your relationship parameters? Or, dropping them because more desirable plates have entered the picture and you just plain don't have the time/inclination to keep them in the mix?

Be truthful about why you don't like em either to Ugly or to Crazy, she won't like your answer but she will spend the rest of her life thinking about what you said and try to fix it. She will have such shattered self esteem that you will help other guys get laid. Man team 1, women team 0 !! :kick:

* Should a man be concerned about the wake of emotional fallout that can result from exploring his options without shame?

Only if a guy makes empty promises or lies to get girls in bed and I don't mean harmless lies like telling her you own your own company, lies about marrying her or you will be exclusive with her.

* Does a man (or woman for that matter) who knows they are the less interested party right from the outset have a moral obligation to manage the emotional vulnerability of the more interested party?

If everyone was upfront about the situation BEFORE sex, then Hell no.

whats so spectacular about this thread ??? these are kiddy questions.

 

[RedPill]

guru1000: Well said. Thanks for sharing your experience. That sucks that your plate found this place, and at the same time it's freaking hilarious. I wonder if it's registered yet... (Aside to guru's ex-plate if she's reading this: what have you learned from this site?)

Don’t all relationships pretty much begin as non-exclusive and become exclusive?

Only if you let them. I think if you don't spell it out for them and reinforce the message through both your words and actions, women will start to assume exclusivity because that's usually what they want out of the relationship as the eventual outcome.

whats so spectacular about this thread ??? these are kiddy questions.

D&B: Thanks for your opinions. Btw, what would be a MAN question?

 

[drmeathead]

well as long as you never tell her that you are exclusive then i dont think you owe her anything.

as far as dumping them for the bigger better deal my advice to is to follow the path that women have laid down in this department. just stop returning calls for awhile then when pressed suggest being just friends because you are too busy at this time for dating anyone. dont feel bad about using that line as these very same women have used it.

women our age are looking at every man that says hi to them as the potential "one". they fear being an old maid and being left out of the rest of womanhood. look at all the attention fiances, brides and mothers get. single women cant get nearly that much even if they **** every guy so they want to get married. it has been my personal experience that the strong willed women will take the qualities that you have they want (good job, good looking etc) and try to "give" you the qualities they feel you should also have. so when you tell them you arent into pursuing them seriously you will get called everything from a no good time waster to ****ing bastard as they wasted time and energy (and blow jobs) with you when they could be meeting the future man of their dreams.

 

[STR8UP]

Questions for the Mature Man gang:

• What are your experiences with managing expectations in non-exclusive dating scenarios?
• Do you think it’s inevitable that most women who find you attractive are going to have a hard time with keeping it casual?
• How do you tactfully go about dropping plates that are getting clingy because they aren’t accepting of your relationship parameters? Or, dropping them because more desirable plates have entered the picture and you just plain don't have the time/inclination to keep them in the mix?
• Should a man be concerned about the wake of emotional fallout that can result from exploring his options without shame?
• Does a man (or woman for that matter) who knows they are the less interested party right from the outset have a moral obligation to manage the emotional vulnerability of the more interested party?

Managing expectations?

That's tough.

Even if you don't even think it is implied, lots of times the chick does. It's VERY difficult to find a woman who will go along with a non-exclusive program for an extended period of time. My favorite question I get from a woman is "Where do you see this going with us?"

And I know Rollo will say this is a copout, but I still do not have the time nor the energy to spin plates "proper". I might be able to get a little momentum going with one and have a few others back in the shadows, but to actively keep up with "dating" multiple women? Not in the cards right now.

The last two questions are excellent.

I am in this dilemma myself as we speak.

I have a cute 22 yr old coming to stay with me the night before her "fiancee" comes into town. they aren't officially "together", but he broke up with her about a month ago (long distance joke of a relationship) and now he is begging her back.

The problem here is that I want to get laid. Hell, i wouldn't even mind spending some time with this girl cause she's a great person and is fun to be around.

But I would be lying if I said that I want a full blown relationship with her.

I actually told her a couple of weeks ago for the first time that I didn't just see her as a piece of ass, and that I wasn't ruling out the possibility of getting into a relationship in the near future.

So now she thinks she has a shot with me.

Like I said, I wouldn't mind getting with her as long as we keep it casual, but that's NOT what she wants. She wants a husband or at the very least a live-in, and I'm not going to be either one of those guys.

So where does my moral obligation end?

It has been my experience that you can make every disclaimer you could possibly think of going into a relationship, and when it goes south you will STILL be the ass hole, no matter what.

My biggest issue here is that I hang out with her best friend and some of her other friends from time to time. I have to play with this little bundle of fire VERY carefully or I risk the whole thing bowing up in my face and losing a group of OTHER women who supply me with MANY OTHER opportunities.

She is currently living two hours away but is planning on moving here within the next six months.

I'm not going to do anything to encourage her to dump her "fiancee" whom she says she is going to give another chance to (aside from possibly fukking her the day before he gets into town). But where does my responsibility lie if I am conscious of my lukewarm attraction?

the angel on my one shoulder tells me it's wrong to even consider messing with her, but the devil is always there to remind me that although women often times aren't directly CONSCIOUS of the things they do, they will rarely hesitate to use a man as a temporary source of intimacy and dump him after he has served his purpose.

 

[penkitten]

we are in the chatroom talking this topic with redpill now
http://www.chatzy.com/122298398237

 

[Drum&Bass]

Btw, what would be a MAN question?

This is a man question, its just better suited towards the main forum..

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Considering that the majority of members on SS are AFCs or rAFCs this will come as an odd question. For the most part it's young men who resist non-exclusivity and are more prone to seek monogamy and this is relative to their degree of sexual deprivation (i.e. it's the guys who are apt to get the least female intimacy who tend to be the most dependent upon an exclusive situation). I'm bringing this up because I feel it's important to define where the expectations of exclusivity come from. A very attractive female will tend to seek exclusivity less from men who do not match her degree of sexual value (her "guy friends"). That's not limited to looks; it's a good starting point, but there are of course other modifiers for that value. Precious few Men truly enjoy the ability AND the mindset to be non-exclusive.

Conversely, the lower a woman's perceived sexual value in relation to the target male's, the more likely she will be to expect exclusivity. For both sexes this correlates with the Cardinal Rule of Relationships:

In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

As this applies to personal relationships, the partner with the self-perception of a lower sexual value will generally be the one to seek exclusivity. That partner will need the other more and will tend to assume the submissive role.

Now lets add women's depreciating sexual marketability to the mix. It's no secret that as women age their sexual marketability declines and with that so declines their capacity to secure long term provisioning and male partner to share in parental investment responsibilities. You can of course make arguments as to how some select women may postpone this better than others, but all their efforts to do so only highlight the anxiety and the reality of living with this fact. It may come slower for some women, but it's the conscious and subconscious recognition of this that is the operative psychology. Even the hottest 35 y.o. still realizes her sexual marketability in relation to a 25 y.o. because she's experienced the 25 y.o.'s sexual value prior. Therefore, this understanding modifies her own self-perception of her sexual value. As that evaluation declines, so increases her need for exclusivity.

Few Men figure this complexity out. Through a combination of reinforcing social contrivances and social conditioning meant to keep him confused he's taught not to question it and is ridiculed for pointing out inconsistencies. Other guys, the 'naturals', who through genetic good looks and/or superior provisioning ability never have cause to question the exclusivity dynamic because they are simply, continuously, rewarded with feminine sexuality - if it ain't broke, what's to fix?

 

[Colossus]

Very good thread.

It is not your JOB to manage EXPECTATIONS for a non exclusive plate.

I believe in FULL DISCLOSURE. As long as it is UNDERSTOOD at one point that you are not exclusive, your HONORABLE duty is done.

I recently have come across a situation where a plate, who happened to be the only one I was seeing at the time, STUMBLED across this site (overlooking my shoulder one day) and saw every post I have written. In her utter perceived SHOCK, she told me " I am heart broken".

Yet in the beginning I made it unequivocally CLEAR that we are not EXCLUSIVE. As she reads this, it probably still does not REGISTER.

Women have that old fairy tale fantasy of meeting their knight in shining armor and then living happily ever after. This is not REALITY.

A woman is not OWED an explanation especially when NON EXCLUSIVITY is FULLY DISCLOSED.

It is not your moral obligation to cater to her ONEITUS. A woman will BLAME and ASSIGN responsibility to you for BREAKING HER when is fact she broke herself. She ALLOWED herself to paint a picture of the KNIGHT who will marry her when it was made CLEAR in the beginning what this relationsip entails.

To this you should not feel GUILT or SHAME.

If I fully disclose my MOTIVE to an individual, I relinquish all liability to that individual. If that individual CHOOSES to continue with the HOPE of it turning into a fruitful endeavor then that is a RISK she must take.

At the end of the day, most women will not accept responsibility for their feelings and use a SCAPEGOAT(you) to justify their pain.

This plate had potential but lacked a MATURE perspective.

Great posts GURU and REDPILL, as always.

I dont have trmendous experience in non-exclusive dating, but it is growing.

Guru pretty much covered it, IMO, but ill add a few quick things:

-Do you think it’s inevitable that most women who find you attractive are going to have a hard time with keeping it casual?

Yes, absolutely. UNLESS they themselves are engaged in other pursuits (plates), this is inevitable. ESPECIALLY once sex is brought into the equation.

Should a man be concerned about the wake of emotional fallout that can result from exploring his options without shame?

As long as the plates in question are fully and honestly disclosed about the nature of the relationship, there should be no surprises. At that point she is willingly and knowingly seeing you under the context you have given her.

Does a man (or woman for that matter) who knows they are the less interested party right from the outset have a moral obligation to manage the emotional vulnerability of the more interested party?

To a degree, yes. Dont unnecessarily drag them through the proverbial mud. Because you hold power in that respect, you will be aware if you are misleading them or hurting them in the pursuit of your own gain. In other words, if you are banging a woman who is clearly and increasingly infatuated with you, the longer you continue things the more hurt she is likely to become when you break it off.