Current sticking point: suggestions?

[hansol]

Hey guys,

This has popped up a couple times in the last little while. A couple girls I was chasing have mentioned the same "critique" of my game: taking unnecessary time escalating from conversation/rapport to the first kiss. This has always been a known sticking point for me, but I've always managed to stumble through it. Having two broads mention the same thing in a short amount of time though shows me it's a problem, and I'd really like to fix it.

Basically I'm getting hung up on the "correct" time/process to escalate. I can chat up the girl, get her laughing, and develop enough raport that she is comfortable enough to be one on one with me. I get hung up on when/how to go for the initial kiss. I find myself thinking in the back of my mind that if I push for it too quickly, I'll get slapped or charged with rape or something equally ridiculous.

I know it's completely ridiculous, but nonetheless the problem still persisits and is affecting my game. I think it's because 1. I don't know what to look for, and 2. I am being too reserved when instead I should be getting aggressive.

All that being said, I still close, but find myself spending too much time chatting/developing raport when instead the girl just wants me to jump her. I'd like to fix this so I can get a smooth transition from conversation to the physical, without wasting extra time (and in the process losing her interest.) I know that for all the girls I've closed, I've probably lost more than a few because I bored them rather than making a move, and that needs to be improved.

I was hoping you guys could fill me in on what works for you, both with your inner game and what kind of gameplan you used to overcome this? Thanks!

 

[jophil28]

All that being said, I still close, but find myself spending too much time chatting/developing raport when instead the girl just wants me to jump her.

Perhaps you need to discover what is behind your paralysis. It is usually fear of something or other. You need to kill that fear.

 

[hansol]

Jophil,

I think the fear is mostly just "fear of the unknown". I don't know what happens when you mis-time escalating.

 

[hithard]

Making mistakes are part of the joys of life- otherwise we wouldn’t learn jack. You shouldn't be worried about making a few.
Go for a few 'too early kisses' and see what happens.
If you cop a slap then just lay down in the street and die from the resulting embarrassment as life won't be worth living anymore due to rejection

Could it be that you are trying to hard to prove your worth before being allowed to kiss a girl?
Or is it just over cautious to stop rejection?

 

[jophil28]

Could it be that you are trying to hard to prove your worth before being allowed to kiss a girl?
Or is it just over cautious to stop rejection?

I am betting it's mostly the latter.
Waiting for a 1000 indicators of interest from her before he moves.
He is looking for a 'guarantee' that she is so smitten that his 'move', when he finally makes one, is certain success.
Unfortunately, women eventually tire of sending buying signals- they think his receiver is broken.

 

[vatoloco]

I'd also recommend going for a few "early kisses" and seeing what happens. Of course, if you're getting negative body language (not interested in your conversation, crossed arms, looking away, etc.), then DO NOT GO FOR THE KISS, regardless of timing!

 

[Colossus]

I've had this problem before, and your assesment is right----you just get hung up on waiting for the "right moment" or worrying about various rejection outcomes.

Timing is key in a LOT of things, especially game, but you cant get hung up on it. One day I just decided to start going for broke and if I feel the interest is there, I go for it. That doesnt mean do it at an awkward moment, but if you are isolated and have a bit of touching established already just do it. You'll be a better man for it.

 

[Fuglydude]

Dude you're probably a smart guy... This is why you're overanalyzing, and over thinking the issue. If a chic is showing you interest it basically means she wants your load all over her face... Well maybe not literally, but you get my point. When I was single my basic reason for pursuing chics was to get my rocks off. I'm a pretty horny guy naturally, and screwing/getting your cack sucked are better than jerking it.

Try not jerking off or take tribulus other supplements to jack up your testosterone levels and make you horny. If you're horny and your sole purpose is to use the girl for your sexual satisfaction, then it will simplify the whole interaction. Women LOVE being used for sex... its in their nature. Be dominant.

This board in general overcomplicates things. Keep stuff simple, and you'll get better results.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Derek Vance]

That phrase...girls will forgive you for going too far but will never forgive you for not going far enough? Massive embarrassing denial from a kiss attempt, our biggest fear, will rarely happen. If she denies no the kiss, don't apologize, simply look them in the eye and smile like you know their game.

Even if you're too early...so what? You're a man and you are confident. Enjoy women and the complete start to finish interaction (even the awkward getting to know you phase). Don't over think, enjoy the situation and do. Do talk to girls you don't know. Do talk to girls you know. Do smile. Do lead. Do kiss. Do escalate. Do f***.

 

[squirrels]

A rape charge for a kiss? That's a little paranoid, don't you think?

How's your other kino going? Are you touching her at ALL? You can start with a hug before the date...then touching her upper arm/shoulder during conversation or putting a hand on the small of her back to guide her somewhere when you're moving. Over the course of a night, your proximity to her should continue to increase, you should be getting closer and slightly more intimate with your actions throughout the night.

You honestly WANT her to be ever-so-slightly uncomfortable with how close/physical you are to her. Not uncomfortable to the point she withdraws/pulls away, but comfortable to the point where she acknowledges your physical/sexual presence. As rapport builds, you just start getting more "intimate", escalating slowly and giving her time to adjust to the new level of intimacy.

Eventually, if she's digging you, the kiss is inevitable. You can't necessarily wait for her to give the "signs"...that DTF-stare with the head tilted to one side when she drops into that "bedroom voice", that's a dead giveaway that it's time to kiss her. But some women will give you signs...other women will not give you any sign except their lack of resistance to your advances.

I get horny just thinking about this sh*t.

Sometimes when you KNOW it's the right time to kiss her, you can move in for it and stop short, but so she knows you're doing it on purpose...like she's expecting the kiss and you're teasing her. But you have to make good eventually.

Seriously, though...don't be afraid to escalate. As long as you make SOME effort to calibrate and gradually move up to the kiss, the worst she'll do is turn a cheek and giggle at your attempt. At which point you play it off like it's not a big deal.

In fact, don't EVER worry about being caught "running game"...even cheesy game. It's happened to me before and I have never suffered because of it.

Seriously, I've been off my "game" for years now. I had a girl over the other night on the couch, she was sitting at the other end of the couch and I scooted up to her and put my arm around her and said, "Can you even SEE the TV from here?" She told me it was an "incredibly cheesy move". I looked her right in the eye and, with a laugh, told her I didn't give a f*ck. Made it to "3rd base" that night.

Another time, WAY back, I actually got caught in an attempt at NLP. I was talking to a girl who works with autistic kids and I was trying to explain to her what autism was...(it's a disorder where you can't filter out specific external stimuli and everything comes in at once) So I'm standing there in the bar talking to her, and I'm like, "You know how when we're standing here talking, you're filtering out all this noise and focusing all your attention on me?" She comes back, "Oh, I AM, am I??" Clearly busted...I just kept rolling like it wasn't a big deal...and I was making out with her by the end of the night.

In fact, I can think of a case recently where I probably hesitated TOO long to kiss a girl, and as a result, she's "busy" now when I call.

Bottom line...you have to calibrate it. Chances are I've got my arm around a girl, snuggled up to her on the couch and rubbing her thighs before I even GO for the "kiss". If she'll let you get away with some intimate touch, a kiss is NOTHING. Then some women will just jump right on you and want to make out right away. But those are usually the ones who want you for your looks.

I'm going on now because I'm seriously getting into talking about this stuff. I need to find another "plaything" at the office...someone who I never work with, though, so it's not "awkward" if it doesn't work out.

That phrase...girls will forgive you for going too far but will never forgive you for not going far enough? Massive embarrassing denial from a kiss attempt, our biggest fear, will rarely happen. If she denies no the kiss, don't apologize, simply look them in the eye and smile like you know their game.

Even if you're too early...so what? You're a man and you are confident. Enjoy women and the complete start to finish interaction (even the awkward getting to know you phase). Don't over think, enjoy the situation and do. Do talk to girls you don't know. Do talk to girls you know. Do smile. Do lead. Do kiss. Do escalate. Do f***.

Good stuff! Proceed from the assumption that she wants to f**k you. Unless you've done something that's a MAJOR turn-off or you're hideously ugly or totally awkward, she understands that you are a man and she is a woman and there is a possibility there. You have to show that YOU understand it too and are not afraid of it.

If you try to kiss her early and she rejects it, your attitude is, "she's not ready to kiss me YET". That's how you learn the fine calibration...through trial and error. But always assume that if you don't f**k up somehow, she will eventually be DTF.

 

[DJ SO STEVE]

I'm glad this topic got brought up. I also find myself in this jam most of the time actually...

I always start kino on the first outing and escalate to the point where sometimes we even hold hands. But then when I get to the car and driving them home when they leave, half of the girls lean over for a hug. If I try to kiss them they turn the cheek and the other half just start to open the door and I had a great time, thanks. I then lean over for a hug and they do give me a hug but thats pretty much it.

I try the same on the 2nd and 3rd meetup but if nothing is happening I usually assume I'm getting nowhere and should next her.

Is this the right mentality?

I do find it awkward doing things last minute in the car when they are leaving.
In my experience alcohol does help and increases the chance of the kiss happening but I don't want to depend on it.

For the times that the kiss does happen is when the girl is really attracted to me, She'll let me kiss her on the first meetup and escalate as we continue meeting up.

 

[squirrels]

I'm glad this topic got brought up. I also find myself in this jam most of the time actually...

I always start kino on the first outing and escalate to the point where sometimes we even hold hands. But then when I get to the car and driving them home when they leave, half of the girls lean over for a hug. If I try to kiss them they turn the cheek and the other half just start to open the door and I had a great time, thanks. I then lean over for a hug and they do give me a hug but thats pretty much it.

I try the same on the 2nd and 3rd meetup but if nothing is happening I usually assume I'm getting nowhere and should next her.

Is this the right mentality?

I do find it awkward doing things last minute in the car when they are leaving.
In my experience alcohol does help and increases the chance of the kiss happening but I don't want to depend on it.

For the times that the kiss does happen is when the girl is really attracted to me, She'll let me kiss her on the first meetup and escalate as we continue meeting up.

Ehh...holding hands is usually something I reserve for a "couples" kind of mentality. I feel weird holding hands with a girl on the first date. I'll have my hands all over her shoulders/hips/thighs if I can get away with it, but it's weird...holding hands just seems out-of-place on a first date. It's "cute", but it's not "hot". It's probably the most platonic form of intimate kino there is...way too "safe" to get a girl thinking sexy thoughts about you.

Doing "awkward things in the car when the are leaving"...wait, what? You don't at least stop the vehicle and walk her to her door??

I imagine leaning across the center-console of your Chevy isn't going to be the most intimate position in the world. The kiss usually comes as a result of physical closeness, which you can't typically achieve from the front seat of your car. Now I've f**ked in the front seat of a car, but this is with a girl I'd hooked up with before...not on a first date. I've also kissed a girl across the console, but then, she was putting on lip-gloss and I wanted a taste. She was practically asking for it. But the PHYSICALITY was established earlier at the bar, by me getting a little closer than normal to her while we were playing pool, helping her line up her shots, and then being "up-ons" at the bar for a drink...etc.

Here's the thing about kissing...kissing is the gateway to all other intimate crap. Until you kiss, sexual tension is building...the kiss is the release, it lets it all crash out like a dam that has suddenly burst.

Your job is to put pressure on the dam, to fill that resevoir of sexual tension. If you burst the dam when there's no sexual tension, you get nothing more than a trickle...major let-down.

You don't PLAN the kiss. The kiss is not a "DJ tactic". That's what's so special about it, and that's why chicks love it. A guy can mechanically execute everything right as far as "gaming" her, but a kiss is "real", it evolves naturally from the situation. A kiss does not appear in a vacuum, and a kiss at the end of the night that hasn't been built up properly is just another "awkward move".

If you are finding it awkward to kiss the girl, you are not building rapport and comfort with her properly, you are not building sexual tension with her properly...maybe you're just awkward in general, which kills the attraction.

If you properly build rapport, comfort, and sexual tension...the kiss will present itself. When it does...YOU TAKE IT.

Don't be afraid to take it when it appears. If you're wrong/mistaken and it wasn't there, all you get is a cheek and a laugh. Big deal. Learn your lesson...and try again next time, with the next girl. If a girl turns away from me because I've mis-calibrated, I'll just nuzzle her cheek to get her used to my face being that close to hers...I know given enough time she'll let it happen. If not...big deal.

Looking good/being healthy doesn't hurt either. Girls will kiss good-looking guys "just because", sometimes.

 

[hansol]

Right on guys, I appreciate all the insight. I guess the thing to do is just push that boundary and see what happens. From the sounds of things, the "worst" thing that happens is she turns away. I reckon I can deal with that haha. Thanks again

 

[jophil28]

Right on guys, I appreciate all the insight. I guess the thing to do is just push that boundary and see what happens. From the sounds of things, the "worst" thing that happens is she turns away. I reckon I can deal with that haha. Thanks again

On the one hand "going slow" is a powerful method of amping up sexual tension between a man and a women. Doc Love says so, and my experiences confirm it.
However, acting like a paralysed stone statue is not going to work.
Like it or not, it is still YOUR job to slowly push down on the gas. The rate of acceleration is then regulated if she pushes down on the brake .

 

[wait_out]

I always start kino on the first outing and escalate to the point where sometimes we even hold hands. But then when I get to the car and driving them home when they leave, half of the girls lean over for a hug. If I try to kiss them they turn the cheek and the other half just start to open the door and I had a great time, thanks. I then lean over for a hug and they do give me a hug but thats pretty much it.

Squirrels is giving solid advice here. Kissing in cars is terrible. Guys are deliberate and won't care if it's a little awkward. Girls don't like that though, they need to be primed. You need to set a kiss up so it feels natural, romantic, spontaneous, inevitable. Meaning she should already be locked in close to you -- it shouldn't come out of nowhere.

It's not just the kiss itself. You're selling an entire experience, from the context of the date, to how you might relate to each other, to your confidence with her. The setup is everything. The kiss and anything after is just a reward.

 

[zekko]

On the one hand "going slow" is a powerful method of amping up sexual tension between a man and a women. Doc Love says so, and my experiences confirm it.

Yeah, I'm a little amazed at a lot of the advice around here. They seem to advise ramping up the escalation so fast you'd be banging her withiin 15 minutes of meeting her. I know that IS a goal for some guys around here (the bathroom fvck, or the behind the club in the alley fvck), but yeesh. I don't know how enjoyable that would be, you'd barely get a look at her first. Like Jophil says, where's the sexual tension? It could use a little time to build.

Just to be clear, I HAVE had these quickie encounters before, but I can't even remember the girls' names now. Usually it was a situation where several of us were out and someone would snag the girls and it was like "okay, here's yours, let's do it". And it was never a situation where there was any lasting attraction.

 

[samspade]

It is better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission.

That's not to say you have to literally ask for forgiveness. But by being bold, if a woman balks, you can come up with some language to laugh it off (without seeming to be ashamed of going in for a kiss).

Being slow and patient, overall, is a great thing and will keep women interested. But you do have to recognize the key moments and strike when the iron is hot.

 

[hithard]

Yeah, I'm a little amazed at a lot of the advice around here. They seem to advise ramping up the escalation so fast you'd be banging her withiin 15 minutes of meeting her. I know that IS a goal for some guys around here (the bathroom fvck, or the behind the club in the alley fvck), but yeesh. I don't know how enjoyable that would be, you'd barely get a look at her first. Like Jophil says, where's the sexual tension? It could use a little time to build.

Just to be clear, I HAVE had these quickie encounters before, but I can't even remember the girls' names now. Usually it was a situation where several of us were out and someone would snag the girls and it was like "okay, here's yours, let's do it". And it was never a situation where there was any lasting attraction.

The times they are a changing.
Quick lays are getting easier with women now. Maybe due to women leading equally busier lives?
Or maybe media influences. I don't care either way; sex seems to be first and getting to know them second.
Confusing times.

 

[e1m00]

I am of the view that fear is his problem. I would advise him to go ahead and give some early kisses and see what happens. If she reacts angrily just tell her that you are like that and that you cannot change. There is no point in keeping your head in the sand like an ostrich.

 

[Alchemystic]

Hey, it is me! Alchemystic(The dude who got a way with rape)

I will make a post on how to land that kiss(Your sticking point) on a new thread.
Just check it out in the tip section.
It will have a title called "Kissing for AFC's"