Costantly shut out during appraoches

[Kev07]

try to approach at a more social place. like clubs or bars. alot of women will react coldly if you do it at a place where they are just trying to do some shopping.

also remember your posture, that is very important. carry yourself with pride, hands out of pockets(this makes a BIG difference) maybe even strut just a little bit

 

[faisal]

I hope that's a joke...otherwise, that's a disgraceful comment.

Life is a joke, unless you can prove otherwise.

 

[Delta]

hey das,

i get the same thing too. over the last few years, i've put a lot of work into my body (used to be skinny computer geek... now i work out 3 times a week, can bench my body weight and i'm fairly ripped now... not all that buff but ripped), dress better, pay attention to grooming and such and i'm not a weirdo or spaz and come off as fairly confident.

but in terms of pinging girls, eye contact, smile, and hi - always rebuffed. nothing. no play. no interest. nada.

but i don't see any other guys doing it either... never. and the girls walk around like they don't want anyone to violate their private space.

so it could just be that where you are, they are just programmed to repel. i'm in los angeles by the way. in non pick up scenes in the day light, they just are not interested in the activity.

or... they are not instantly attracted to me. which makes sense... if they WERE interested in me by my appearance, i'm sure even in civilian situations, they would go for it.

--------------------------------------------------

so it could be that while i am not ugly (people don't point and laugh and come at me with pitch forks and torches), i am not exactly attractive to women either.

so...

what about you? how would you describe yourself physical appearance-wise?

----------------------------------------------------

i am glad we are getting away from the "physical appearance doesn't count" thing. that's not true. and just as we evaluate chicks, chicks evaluate us.

i'd rather know the truth... although... it does seem that certain lies help you do the things you should do while truths can have a tendency to shut you down.

-----------------------------------------------------

statistically speaking though, it does make sense not to give up. listen to that advice that was posted.

no matter how statistically small the chance is, if you keep at it, it is more likely to happen than not.

-----------------------------------------------------

finally, surveys say that most people meet their mates through friends. we may be in the pickup community but this is not how most people find their women.

cold approaches are the path of most resistance.

haven't you ever been in social situations at school or church or whatever where there was a girl or two who liked you?

even at my afc worst, i HAD THAT! even girls that i found attractive! (!!!)

i'm totally screwed now because all i have is work. i have a few devoted christian friends (and for a heathen like me that's a mystery!) that i see a few times a month. no social life. no closed system context where i can shine where a girl can discover she likes me.

i think we need to work this angle too.

-----------------------------------------------------

finally, i am so desperately lonely and what i wouldn't give to have a beautiful woman in my life that liked me and that i didn't have to spend night after night alone.

but in our black moments, we have to buck up. there is tomorrow so there is no despair.

and we need to find humor in it and keep on. to assist in that:

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/couple_brought_together_through

good luck.

delta

 

[Delta]

I hope that's a joke...otherwise, that's a disgraceful comment.

don't judge (a man unless you've walked in his shoes). i would imagine a great many of us here harbor such sentiments... whether now or at one time.

delta

 

[rrrrr]

hey das,

i get the same thing too. over the last few years, i've put a lot of work into my body (used to be skinny computer geek... now i work out 3 times a week, can bench my body weight and i'm fairly ripped now... not all that buff but ripped), dress better, pay attention to grooming and such and i'm not a weirdo or spaz and come off as fairly confident.

but in terms of pinging girls, eye contact, smile, and hi - always rebuffed. nothing. no play. no interest. nada.

but i don't see any other guys doing it either... never. and the girls walk around like they don't want anyone to violate their private space.

so it could just be that where you are, they are just programmed to repel. i'm in los angeles by the way. in non pick up scenes in the day light, they just are not interested in the activity.

or... they are not instantly attracted to me. which makes sense... if they WERE interested in me by my appearance, i'm sure even in civilian situations, they would go for it.

--------------------------------------------------

so it could be that while i am not ugly (people don't point and laugh and come at me with pitch forks and torches), i am not exactly attractive to women either.

so...

what about you? how would you describe yourself physical appearance-wise?

----------------------------------------------------

i am glad we are getting away from the "physical appearance doesn't count" thing. that's not true. and just as we evaluate chicks, chicks evaluate us.

i'd rather know the truth... although... it does seem that certain lies help you do the things you should do while truths can have a tendency to shut you down.

-----------------------------------------------------

statistically speaking though, it does make sense not to give up. listen to that advice that was posted.

no matter how statistically small the chance is, if you keep at it, it is more likely to happen than not.

-----------------------------------------------------

finally, surveys say that most people meet their mates through friends. we may be in the pickup community but this is not how most people find their women.

cold approaches are the path of most resistance.

haven't you ever been in social situations at school or church or whatever where there was a girl or two who liked you?

even at my afc worst, i HAD THAT! even girls that i found attractive! (!!!)

i'm totally screwed now because all i have is work. i have a few devoted christian friends (and for a heathen like me that's a mystery!) that i see a few times a month. no social life. no closed system context where i can shine where a girl can discover she likes me.

i think we need to work this angle too.

-----------------------------------------------------

finally, i am so desperately lonely and what i wouldn't give to have a beautiful woman in my life that liked me and that i didn't have to spend night after night alone.

but in our black moments, we have to buck up. there is tomorrow so there is no despair.

and we need to find humor in it and keep on. to assist in that:

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/couple_brought_together_through

good luck.

delta

Delta, I agree with what you're saying, but the problem is, if you're in this state of despair, you are in no position to attract a beautiful women with many options. I realized that, and found it out the hard way. It's kind of a catch 22. If you're in despair and lonely, most women won't want you. But if you had a woman, you wouldn't be so lonely. I'm trying to make friends and expand my social circle. I realized it doesn't happen overnight. I'm doing what I can though. This is the result of being shy all my life, and realizing I need to do something about it, and I am.

Also, when it comes to just walking up to a woman and saying hi, appearance 99% matters, unless you count the way you say hi... because what else does she have to go on????? Of course, by appearance, I don't mean just attractiveness, I mean clothes, posture, etc.

 

[LionOne]

Going in with "Hi!" is a direct-game approach. Yeah, DJ-bible advices to do this, but I think it's too advanced for u. You need to convey extremely alpha bodylanguage and congruence to get away with this. It's not the best approach for most guys. Of course it shows that u are confident but it also gives the sign off neediness if done incorrectly. Get that if u use this approach u must have a body to do all the attraction (muscles are far more important than pretty face) and u must have a manly vibe. Probably in ur case u don't have that's why they shut u down. In this case I believe it doesn't matter what u say next if she doesn't find u attractive. With ur opener u have already shown that u are attracted to her so she just has to brush u off.

If u want to keep trying this approach try these:

-Hit the gym, ur body must be ripped.
-Alpha body language.
-Don't approach in angle, face her directly.

The approach: (alpha bl alpha bl alpha bl or she will run away and SCREAM!)

-Opener: "Hi! I saw u and thought u are were really pretty " Or anything else which directly says that u like her.
-Acknowledge the situation: "I just felt that I had to say something to u "
-Time constraint: "I'm on my way to buy/see/visit X but I'd like to talk with u for a moment"
-Ask her some question that gets the conversation going. Eg. "Are u from X?" / "Do u know place X?" Although in normal game we avoid these questions, they fit here nicely to root the conversation.
-Rest is just vibing (hint: instant date!), rapport and closing. Qualify her a lot, u met her by cold approach so she must fit ur standards!

Try indirect game next time if this direct approach style sounds too ballsy. In indirect game don't start with "Hi" but with something situationally relevant. Read something like Juggler / Mystery method to get some pointers.

 

[Delta]

Dude, the guy called the OP ugly and tried to blame his problems with women on his looks. Totally unnecessary, and misleading. Now he's just going to walk around thinking he has no chance with attractive women because he'll think "I'm ugly, so I don't need to worry about approaching her." Nice. Encouraging AFC behavior? Come on now.

oh. i thought you were commenting on the "god fails us" part... y'never know on the internet... lots of fanatics.

i think the word "disgraceful" colored it that way... if you'd have said "mean", i woulda got it. but my bad.

ummm... but it could be a shade of truth though... however crudely put. i just chalked it up to "tuff luv" but you're right, it's not constructive.

delta

p.s. oh! oh! i know why it didn't strike me as mean - he says the same about himself. so yah, still unconstructive but kinda a gallows humor.

 

[Delta]

Delta, I agree with what you're saying, but the problem is, if you're in this state of despair, you are in no position to attract a beautiful women with many options. I realized that, and found it out the hard way. It's kind of a catch 22. If you're in despair and lonely, most women won't want you. But if you had a woman, you wouldn't be so lonely. I'm trying to make friends and expand my social circle. I realized it doesn't happen overnight. I'm doing what I can though. This is the result of being shy all my life, and realizing I need to do something about it, and I am.

Also, when it comes to just walking up to a woman and saying hi, appearance 99% matters, unless you count the way you say hi... because what else does she have to go on????? Of course, by appearance, I don't mean just attractiveness, I mean clothes, posture, etc.

yeah, you're right. definitely.

"plenty" attracts. "poverty" repels. but indeed this has become a pretty insurmountable catch22 for me and i don't know how one is supposed to project fullness when they are starving to death.

hence, my posts about how legalized prostitution would probably be a boon to men.

i am by no means a weeping pusbag. i have a semblance of a life and my hobbies. but at my best, i come off as a normal guy. not a strutting ****.

so clothes - check, posture - check, physique - pretty check... but still.

so yeah... life continues.

delta

 

[Das]

I apologize for the rambling opening post. I had a bad night out the night before. I've calmed down a bit so I'll try to be a little more clear. I posted because I really needed to vent the other day.

Faisal, I considered what you said about being ugly,or presenting myself poorly. I don't think it's the case, but, it won't hurt to try and improve some more.

Delta seems to be in a similar boat as me, I kind of got it together, except for my social circle, and the ultra crappy social scene around here.

Getting my friends to do anything is like pulling teeth. A lot of times just ti get one person to do any sort of activity I've got to ask 25 people to get 15 to say they will go, and about 10 of those will "forget" and get ditracted by something. Then the last 4 or 5 will start the "wheres so and so" or "if he/she's going I'm not" crap and usually back out, so I went through all this trouble to go have fun with one person, if your lucky. Sometimes even the person who came up with the idea backs out or forgets.

Don't even think of going up to Philly to go to a club. No one was interested in going, any time I brought it up.

If I do go to a bar around here, alone or with friends, thats when I get the total freeze outs. Women just aren't open to new people here for some reason. SOmetimes I get looks and smiles, but when I go over, *ZAP*, eyes turned away, the smile is gone, and it's like I just did something horrible. Guys will talk for a bit though (They don't smile at me. Thank God). Same with the Mall, and thats what had me worked up the other day.

I have tried indirect questioning but really all I get is freeze outs or yes/no/I don't know type answers. It's frustrating, man, is it frustrating.

I want to do a field report to get some feedback on what I can improve on, but at this point I don't think it would do much good.

I'm not going to quit. If it comes to it I'll transfer and move to a more social place, but thats the absolute last resort.

thanks for the help so far.

Das

 

[Charm]

Ignore these people who are saying you are probably ugly and thats why. You need better openers and you need to come off LESS like you are trying to pick them up and MORE like you are just there to have a FUN conversation with them. You need your ENERGY to be slightly higher than their energy too, so DRINK a redbull or whatever it takes but come into the conversation with higher energy and lift them up to your level, bring them INTO your energy and set up the situation. You can have hot girls, even if you arent the greatest looking guy, you just need more practice and a better opening game. PRACTICE

 

[Charm]

Here, ill go even further to help you since you seem genuinely interested. You need to practice CONVERSATION skills not just techniques. You need to speak with passion and come up to a group and engage them and ask them interesting questions. Try going and making 10 approaches and after you say hello, no matter WHAT their response is, go right into "Have you ever..." and then make something up. "Have you ever sailed around the world in less than 80 days?", "Have you ever been in a submarine?" - "Can you imagine what being so far beneath the oceans surface would be like?? WOW wouldnt all those whales be amazing to watch!" Just run with your imagination. USE YOUR BRIAN BTW there is a great book you should read called Using your brain

 

[Charm]

Remember Steve Irwin and how excited and passionate he was about wildlife? That type of passion and excitement is infectious and if you go into a bored looking group (I have done this MANY times in the field) and passionately explain something or ask questions with such a tone of sincere curiosity that they cant help but answer, you'll be amazed the responses youre going to get. And I want to hear about those responses.

 

[Das]

Thanks I'll Try that

 

[Paradigm Artisan]

Do you know how to project yourself? Does your voice penetrate and travel? Or does it say Umm, 'Hi' my confidence is this small. Do you visualize a good response before you approach to help you go in for the kill or do you 'hope' that the bible won't fail you? Does your energy project fowardly or does it sit in the pit of your stomach?

This little difference can make everything you say a bit more interesting. Come on, who wants to know more about a dude who has no follow through to anything he has to say. Wouldn't you rather get to know somebody who has confidence and knows how to create and hold conversations? Of course, see, you know.

Now if you walked up to me and said 'hi' I would say 'hi' and look the other way too. Why would I want to be bothered by akward conversation? What you want to do is ask her open ended questions that get her participating in the conversation. Prefferable something that says a little about yourself so that you don't have to boringly have to say it directly. Of course you want to be outgoing, flexible, and prepared with your confidence and wit to handle the situation. This can speak volumes to women and have them open up. You already seem like this situation can turn into something more, not just an akward guy looking at people and saying 'hi' to them. What you can say:

"Hey, you know, you're really cute. Are you single?" - Forward approach

"Excuse me, on a scale from 2 through 11 how do you feel about this shirt?" - Fun approach

"Hey, how are you today?" 'Blah, blah.' "So you usually go here?" - Friendly approach

"Excuse me, ladies, ladies. What the hell,.... do you like in a guy?" Fun group approach

Ya see, 'hi' leads to 'hi'. And if you don't take confident lead in a conversation then she won't confidently follow. She'll look away, maybe your voice is as small as your penis size. So make it fvcking big and powerful, but not too much that it's painful. You got a lot to learn about how women interpret things.

Make sure you position yourself were her body is facing you more than your body is facing hers. This subconsciously makes it feel like she is more interested in you than you are in her. Make sure not to stare a hole in the girl, but keep soft eye contact like your really interested in her oppinion. Stand up straight, stick your chest out a bit, think confidence, feel confident. Try to keep the ball rolling as long as you can.

Hope I didn't overkill anything. Hope it helps.

 

[Delta]

i dunno... i'm not of the opinion that every guy can be the way you guys are describing.

you can't fake that kinda energy and for some people (like me), i find it repulsive and invariably fake anyway.

some people can do it. push past it and just go balls to the walls salesman.

i can't.

and i have nothing wrong with my conversational skills (i am extremely entertaining and funny at work) and i doubt das does either. but approaching strangers and asking a question out of nowhere ... that's beyond social skills.

if you guys can do it, more power to you. but i'm of the opinion that it really may not be for everybody.... actually, cold approaches may not be for everybody.

i have a thread about how maybe not everyone is supposed to be an alpha - it's called a hot girl may make you miserable if she's not right for you or somesuch that goes into why i feel this way.

delta

 

[Delta]

oh, and as for the "appearance doesn't count" crowd... i dunno, i would imagine that a girl imagines walking around with a guy and if you don't fit that image, it affects her social standing too... there's a lot of other factors than just being immediately entertaining.

if she can't imagine being seen with you, you're not gonna get it.

again, this is not because i feel that i am ugly nor am i implicating das (he says he's just fine and i believe him).

but appearance does count.

delta

 

[PigAdlemPimp]

You are probably making two terrible mistakes dude, the first being that you can't pick up on the body language signs of the hot babe whom you are cold approaching, if you could you would never be rejected by a girl because you would read her tell tale sign whilst you were looking into her eyse before you cold approached her, the second is that you are nervous and worried about what she thinks of you, therefore she can tell that you see her as being the prize and not yourself, hot babes know who a DJ and an AFC are before they even talk, your body language reveals this to her. :yes:

 

[lyamdb]

i dunno... i'm not of the opinion that every guy can be the way you guys are describing.

you can't fake that kinda energy and for some people (like me), i find it repulsive and invariably fake anyway.

some people can do it. push past it and just go balls to the walls salesman.

i can't.
delta

yes you can! man I'm not good at all with street PU, but one thing I can tell you. you feel you can't make that energy flow out because you have never gotten a good response -a good reward- for doing it. if we can't foresee a positive outcome for an action, we'll find it fake and irrevelent to perform. if you keep faking that vibe and practice till you get good at it and start getting positive responses, and after that if you persist long enough so that you get used to obtaining good results, then you won't feel faking anymore. that vibe and that level of energy will just become your very nature. you can't imagine how much energy you have. its just that because you don't know how to use it, it has shut down itself. just tell me, when you are with a friend who you are sure likes you so much and laughs at your jokes, don't you feel you have so much energy to put into your vibe? why is that? because you can use your energy then. so it just emerges. you have to practice till you get the confidence that you CAN make ANY stranger girl like your personality instantly. then just upon comming to an HB you like to attract, you will feel the burst of energy. as if you have came up to one of your buddies.

 

[Paradigm Artisan]

i dunno... i'm not of the opinion that every guy can be the way you guys are describing.

you can't fake that kinda energy and for some people (like me), i find it repulsive and invariably fake anyway.

some people can do it. push past it and just go balls to the walls salesman.

i can't.

Well maybe not everybody can be like what we're saying, true. But you have to come up with your own gameplan for seduction, I'm just suggesting what may be wrong. But still, I think everybody can get past two minutes of conversation if they have the know how and their mind set to it. But we don't know exactly where he lacks so we can only guess.

I don't advise fake it til you make it. I know it works on a certain level but it feels unsettling to me. If you can get to the point where you know you have something to offer women, and you genuinely want to know about this cute girl you are approaching, then it won't be fake at all. It won't be the easiest thing you have ever done but at least you will feel better about it. This will help you in your approach so you don't come off like your trying to get something from her. Because your not. This helps with the whole energy deal. It's just a small bit though.

Now, me, I am personally interested in a girl, I'm not interested in just another tally mark on my record, or some pvssy I will do later. I actually want the experience of knowing this girl inside and out. I think because I wiped out the whole 'this is big game' kind of mentality and focused on 'what does this cutie have to offer? Do you think her personality matches her looks?' mentality it has helped me become more personable with people and I don't feel like I'm trying to get something from them. So I'm actually not being fake when I approach. Sure, I may open the same way with 10 girls in a night but it's just to get past the first seconds so we can really test each other out. So it's not fake to me. When a friend introduces you to another friend you probably always say 'what's up' or 'nice to meet you' but your not being fake you just need to push past the akwardness and if you and that friend are outgoing you can strike up a conversation with each other and develope a relationship.

I think if your genuinely interested in them then they will be interested in you on a certain level.

But what tends to happen to most guys is that they fear the women too much and it shows in their voice and the way they move and what they look at, so a women won't want to continue the interaction. Or if his problem is that he only says 'hi' then he does need to come up with a more open ended approach.

and i have nothing wrong with my conversational skills (i am extremely entertaining and funny at work) and i doubt das does either. but approaching strangers and asking a question out of nowhere ... that's beyond social skills.

I don't think it's beyond social skills. It may be hard and/or scary at times. But you can start off really small. "Excuse me, do you have the time?" Just do that until you lose your fear and move up to something a little more advanced. You will gradually feel more comfortable and can move on to bigger things.

if you guys can do it, more power to you. but i'm of the opinion that it really may not be for everybody.... actually, cold approaches may not be for everybody.

Hey it may not be for everybody. But you should still learn how to get a girls interest. No matter how it's done. So I'm just trying to help. And I hope I have.

 

[Delta]

you have.

you're offering benevolent and friendly advice and although it may not gel with how i'm feeling about things these days, i may well be wrong and your words will be of help to me and others.

so thanks.

delta