Cold Approach Advice?

[nyc123]

the short window of opportunity certainly does change a man's gameplan. a time constraint is a terrible thing. but alas it is what we all live with often.

i'm not sure about whats going on with AG, so i won't comment on this. I'm interested in the continuation of the story though.

as for self improvement threads- i'll see. if i feel inspired, i will write something.

thank you as well dragonblood. your experiences written are helpful to me as well. they contribute to my own knowledge and experience.

 

[DragonBlood]

thank you as well dragonblood. your experiences written are helpful to me as well. they contribute to my own knowledge and experience.

Oh your welcome, yeah the thread has gathered intrigue so I try to keep it up to date. The time limit alone to make the most of things and the fact that I have the confidence to follow through and experiment with advice.

Dinner tonight AG didnt show, this wasnt surprising however as it was meant for people who attended the training course.

Frenchy did attend but due to the seating layout if I wanted to talk to her I also had to introduce a cold fish into the conversation. Tonight I decided to slow down, socialise with the people there including Frenchy and go home. She has proven difficult to game disconnecting from conversation with everyone often, much like last night she is kind of anti-social or something.. but she was the ONLY girl at dinner with 20 other guys. No one was hitting on her but the conversation at the table bored the hell out of her, physically visible she wanted to leave. Near the end when we went to pay I managed to isolate properly and built some connection. She seems to like neg hits and teasing.


At this point Im out of time and need to start thinking about logistics. Both are leaving in two days, so ideally I have to take one of them on a date tomorrow. I plan to ask Frenchy (midday or so) to the movies after we finish the group dinner. The cinema also just so happens to be on the same street as my hotel while her hotel is blocks away As it turns out, the group dinner is being held in MY hotel tomorrow as well. I dont feel like I have enough rapport or interest coming from Frenchy at this point but I have to make a move and see what happens.

My main concerns are if AG runs disturbance or if I should actually ask AG if she is in a good mood or flirting directly. Either way I can only ask one as to ask the second would come across as insincere.


Its a tricky situation to call. Neither can be guaranteed, Frenchy is a total wild card and asking Frenchy is bitter sweet if I could have instead moved things along with AG. The interaction in the park has cast doubt on where AGs feelings are but she is obviously more invested.

 

[nyc123]

i have no advice for you on this. i don't know what i would do myself. good luck

 

[DragonBlood]

Thanks, well today so far hasnt gone exactly to plan. But it never does. Over the break the two girls were unexpectedly stuck to each other like glue in a room of guys. To top it off I now have a cold from staying out with some of the guys last night. Sniffles and fatigue do not make good game hahaha I had not predicted this coupling as these girls have been virtually strangers since the trip started? I guess ***** power over rules all logic.

I was cautious about going over as I havent spoken to AG since we were in the park but after working the room I went over. Both of the girls and their orbiters were all generally receptive. Frenchy being a bit shy and difficult to open as usual.

I mainly wanted to talk to Frenchy but that didnt happen. AG ran disturbance just by being there so I talked to her instead. She was cool and friendly (so was I, partly because of my cold), she welcomes my presence turning towards me and laughed at some of my comments. She didnt seem as confident in herself as in our previous talks. We talked about her time off and I asked if she was planning to go to the dinner later at my hotel? She says she hasnt decided yet. I leave the group work the room some more and avoid the girl couple for the rest of the day. I feel like not making any strong moves on Frenchy last night had a positive effect as these two were obviously gossiping.

I believe AG has to prepare another presentation for tomorrow so that makes things difficult. At this point though because of this interaction, if shes a no show at the dinner I know she isnt interested and can focus on Frenchy. I am concerned about springing an instant date on Frenchy shortly after dinner. I also discovered after dinner last night when our group split up based on hotel locations she and the others went to the bar. So pulling her away for a movie probably isnt going to happen. It actually sounds ridiculous to be honest. Damn.. do I really want to follow them all out of my hotel and to the bar tonight? **** thats her frame and wont go anywhere.

I dont know, if these two girls stick together and are getting attention at the bar later Im going to lose a lot of power over this situation. Im not receiving any negative signs, but there is a ridiculous amount of competition and very few windows. 2 girls and 50 guys. Fun times!

 

[nyc123]

i once met an older player once at some sort of silent clubbing event. He made it a very clear that if i remembered anything from our conversation that it should be this- the acronym is RIBS. ratio induced ***** syndrome.

he is talking about the male to female ratio. that is, if the number of men overwhelm the number of women, the women will become *****es.
these include qualities such as being more picky, demanding, meaner, etc (think of how it is in china)

now imagine the ratio is flipped. women will be nicer. more pleasant, more accommodating etc

 

[rugby11]

Weird how women are around the world.

 

[DragonBlood]

Right so last night AG showed up with Frenchy, and to my surprise me even more AG invited me to their table! So there I am sitting in a room full of guys with the two HBs sitting at my table with nobody else. At this point Im thinking "even if these girls have bfs Im obviously doing something right". This was a huge win for me physiologically as they have both been very poker face so I had no idea if I was making progress up until now. I get them opening about personal and sexual topics by leading with my own and things are going pretty well. AG even asks if I have a facebook she couldnt find me online last night but wants to stay in touch. I dont have a facebook and accuse her of being stalkerish so I offer my email instead. Eventually one of Frenchys orbiters (the no convo cold fish) joins us in the empty seat and convo becomes harder to flow and moves away from sexual topics INSTANTLY as he sits down which I thought was pretty funny.

After dinner though when the drinks come out, things take a serious turn for the worse. It still drives me nuts. An American guy pulls up a chair and decides to invite himself to the table because he recognizes Frenchy from a previous event. This guy spends the whole night talking about himself and shutting down other conversations. I found it hard to believe or even where hes going with this because hes apparently married but I just let him roll until he runs out of steam. However the girls are getting really fed up and tired of this BS and start fiddling with their phones while pretending to be interested. 90% of his attention is on the girls so I cant talk to them. Eventually I managed to pull AG into a side conversation while he focused a convo on Frenchy but by this point AG is visibly falling asleep. I was feeling **** all night as well and was masking my cold with an energy boost from fizzy drinks.

Since the dinner was at my hotel I was tempted to ask her if she wanted to stay the night, but really that wasnt the vibe at all at this point, she was cold. I didnt see this going any further as I knew AG already had a foot out the door and was thinking about the presentation tomorrow. I tap her on the shoulder and tell her to just go home. She agrees and Frenchy makes an escape with her. So, I started with the two HBs and a good vibe going and by the end of the night was left with the orbiter and this American guy who scared the girls away. I was waiting for AG to finish her drink so I could move her to the bar, but the second round never happened. I was friendly and patient with the two new "guests" but the girls where having none of it.


---------------------------------------------


Today I ask the girls what they thought of the American guy last night and they said "that was weird, he liked to talk but we had to leave. hahaha".

-Over lunch I sit with Frenchy-
DB: So when are you leaving?
Frenchy: Im not leaving till Saturday morning.
DB: great, I am thinking of organising a movie group after dinner would you like to go?
Frenchy: That time is too late for me I cant go. (9:00-11:00), are there many going?
DB: *tap on arm* Well if you were going there would be
Frenchy: (still no)


later today I watch AGs presentation and sit through the board meeting with her. I notice she starts drawing doodles in her notebook and then changes the page to hide them when the next speaker comes up. I turn her notebook towards me and lift up the page to reveal the doodles and I look at her with a surprised expression, this gets a giggle.

As we leave...

DB: I am thinking of organising a movie group after dinner would you like to go?
AG: A movie?
AG: Guess what I am doing! *big smile*
DB: Your going home
AG: Thats right I will be at the banquet but I cant go I have to get my train ticket
DB: ok
(small talk out the building)


The banquet is the going away dinner where people say goodbyes I guess. Well, I did my best in a bad situation but Im officially out of windows, have asked AG THREE TIMES and Frenchy is obviously being cautious not to become a rebound or something.


The reason I tried to organise a movie night is because its very close to my hotel and usually from experience I can work a girls arm, hands and thigh without any resistance in the cinema while we bust at the movie. Its not my favorite first date but handy in a pinch. I have the final dinner in an hour and I fully intend to dress well and go to the movies with the guys (hope they like romantic comedies haha). What else can I do at this point?


Im not getting IOIs or counter offers. Everyone has an eye to go home now. At this point Im convinced AG likes me but has a bf. She could go if she wanted too as the trains not until tomorrow. I only expect my closest buds to even show interest in a late movie. Im sure you guys will post good advice and critique my decisions but probably not in time for tonight.

 

[Skyline]

Hi guys, I did some day game cold approaches this week and could do with some advice.

4 of the 6 girls I approached gave me their number but so far none have replied? Here is my approach and I was wondering if there is room for improvement or am I doing something wrong? Return on numbers is good because I focus on girls who look like they are in a good mood or not in any hurry.

DB: hi/excuse me, your really cute/attractive/beautiful whats your name? <girl name>
DB: *shake hands* Im DB
DB: are you new here? / what do you study (its a campus so this starts a good convo). If they give me something specific like they are an art student or whatever I might suggest we go to an art gallery etc later on the campus if they seem interested. about 2 - 5 mins of rapport building.
DB: Are you single? (somewhat regardless of response)
DB: Whats your number? (if they seem keen, otherwise cut them loose)
<maybe some rapport>
DB: cool I will text you later (or something)
*end on handshake*

I dont consider the "instant date" route as I have discovered campus girls walking around or sitting on the grass are often in a hurry to make their next class or waiting for a friend or something like that.

*wait two days or so*

"Hey <girl> its DB how are you?/how is your week going? "
*no response in 5 hours from anyone?* I send the texts out around 7ish when classes are over and people are winding down.


I mean, in some cases the girls are asking me a lot of questions about what I study, where I live, good eye contact etc and on one occasion asked for my number regardless of having a boyfriend. I come across as friendly and casual. Although this is my rough guide I dont push the interaction and generally laugh off the situation if it starts going south. I have the mindset that all girls are replaceable until they appear on a date so Im somewhat more aloof about the outcome and just enjoy the conversation.

Is my text game off or something? I feel like I should follow up my texts tomorrow evening if they dont get back to me. Something more teasing or specific but I could do with advice here? Like teasing their shyness and asking about their schedule? I have experience with cold approaching and Im obviously chuffed with this result as its helped alot in terms of getting over an ex, but Im still not getting much further? At least two of these girls seemed genuinely interested so Im a bit confused.

The stuff you're doing above is the insta-rejection route. Going up to a random girl, asking for her name, then if she's single, then number close, and then leave. This isn't bad because it does help you a lot when dealing with rejection and helps you devlope an abundance mentality. With this you can be a lot more playful when actually trying to "get the girl" so to speak. I would actually recommend this route if you're outcome dependent or maybe shy when approaching, this really helped me a lot.

As long as you remain outcome independent, then you'll be fine. The best way to get a girls number is to use small talk mixed with playfulness. Its friendly, its not coming on to hard, and it just seems like you want to get to know the person. That is the key that most people don't realize, you have to actually want go get to know the person. This is also how you make friends, that's why you mix playful flirting within that encounter. In fact, always be playful with every girl.

The key to successful encounters : small talk, playfulness, kino, and outcome Independence.

*This is to say that you have good posture, dress nice according to your personality, good eye contact... Basically you are or you seem confident in yourself. If you don't, then you will have a tougher time.

 

[DragonBlood]

Thanks Frayzer. If you read on this thread you can see I dont bat an eyelid from rejection. I embrace it and later wonder if the girl realises what she has missed experiencing. I definitely have become outcome independent over time instead of just telling myself I am, I just enjoy the moment. So I feel this number close routine is holding me back on cold approaches.

I have good posture, dress to match my personality, good eye contact, confidence, small talk and kino are no problem. I also have a good sense of humour and just relax into situations.


However Im not so sure on "playfulness", I feel this is my weak spot. Could you expand what you mean by this because its a pretty general term. You also mention "playful flirting" which I think is something different, more related to girls willingly investing attraction into the conversation.

My personality is more that of a rocker bad boy or risk seeking person. Ive had girls describe me as a wild person they would have to tame before they could bring me home to their folks. Almost acting like "moms" wagging fingers and telling me off while smiling. Playing around makes me feel cheap as it would only be coming from a place of weakness. So for me, playfulness (if I understand you) isnt congruent with my personality. Thats not to say Im a serious person! But just joking around without escalating in some small way is difficult. Its not exciting to me.

 

[DragonBlood]

So I arrive in late to the banquet like a super star (I overslept). And to my surprise there is an organised show on in the theatre before dinner. This means there will be no time or point in going to the movies. However because Im late it also means I am sitting alone during the show instead of with the rest of the group. Not a big loss, its not dark enough to fool around nor did I get any form of consent too.

I meet up with the group sitting beside AG. Socialise with everyone, have a good time, some basic kino and flirting between AG and myself, but its still a very public work dinner so its not like its going anywhere, it simply is. I start to notice some changes in her personality generally talking to me in a more personal level and getting into little arguments. All good signs if she was around for several more months and not hours. Kind of upsetting in a way.

Its getting pretty late and we are the second to last table to leave. AG is first to leave and declares she has to get up early tomorrow. I ask her if this is goodbye until tomorrow or goodbye goodbye. Its goodbye goodbye so I just shake her hand while Im still sitting down and off she goes, presumably never to be seen again. She had many chances so I dont give her much here. I guess there is still Frenchy but even I need to start packing my bags and getting organised to leave tomorrow.

AG has my email and asked to stay in touch, so its possible I might hear from her in the future if she reaches out. No idea what the point of that would be though. If I cant organise to see a girl in person I have no interest in an email-ship.

 

[nyc123]

ah well. no happy ending. but a good story nonetheless. I've been following each chapter. overall i think you performed well.

 

[Skyline]

What I mean by playfulness/flirting is basically challenging whatever she says in a playful manner. Like let's say you're talking to a girl and she says she likes to clean stuff. You can say something like "well at least I know you aren't a dirty girl." Or "You know most girls don't even like their hands getting a little dirty but you just go balls deep huh?" Basically you're not serious with her responses. I can't really think of good examples right now but its a lot like being a smart *as, once you know how to do it it just sort of slips out. As long as you smirk or smile afterwards then it really shouldn't be an issue, you don't want an uptight girl anyway- or at least I wouldn't.

 

[DragonBlood]

What I mean by playfulness/flirting is basically challenging whatever she says in a playful manner.

Oh your talking about being a challenge. Well I can give a specific example recently. I got into a cheeky argument with AG over dinner about how to make tea. I accused her of not knowing how to make a cup as I noticed her tea was watery and weak compared to my own. This annoyed her but in a playful way as I was being ****y. AG told me she was very good at making tea and had followed the instructions exactly. This lead to her holding out the little instruction pack showing me the different steps she followed to prove me wrong. This obviously lead to kino. In the end I agreed that she had done it right and that that there was nothing wrong with her tea, just that I was saying mine was a really good cup of tea


Im sure there are simpler examples but this is a real one.


What concerns me more specifically is I rarely get a laugh out of a girl during conversation, or when I do its normally completely random, usually in agreement to something I said. I dont go out of my way to impress a girl with jokes but at the same time I would like them to smile more and feel more relaxed. Some girls gravitate towards my confidence and make things easy but then others are frozen by it like a deer in the headlights because of their nerves, lack of laughter or lack of trust. If a girl is smiling half the work is done for you instead of turning to your own confidence. This to me would be playfulness.

 

[marmel75]

Thanks Masculinity, 411 and nyc123, I completely agree I am coming on pretty strong, but the windows are short to make a move. I have 2-3 days to land one of these girls before we break up and go home. Im going to focus on Frenchy but I have to add a very random and funny experience this morning.


It was stuffy in my hotel room so after breakfast I went for a walk in the park. There was a girl on her own passing me in the park that I didnt recognize. I just walk on by and she stops me and takes off her large sun glasses. Its Austrian girl! what!


AG: Hey *stops walking and takes off sun glasses*
DB: Really? Its you?
AG: Yes its me What are you doing?
DG: Its stuffy in my hotel room so I decided to go for a walk. What about you?
AG: Yeah me too I was taking a walk by the river.
DB: Did you stay on much later last night?
AG: I stayed on an hour more and got dinner at my hotel.
DB: Where is your hotel?
AG: Its the <hotel> over (bla bla bla)
DB: Have you done any shopping yet, what are you planning to visit?
AG: Not sure yet Im just walking around.
(silence while I think of locations)
DB: Well theres nothing out that way (the direction she was going), Its a bit of a walk from here but I could take you to the cathedral?
AG: No I think I will take in the park
DB: Your so boring, SO boring your impossible! (playful tone)
AG: ahahahaha
DB: *starts walking away* See you
AG: bye


It was pretty early so first of all I caught her in the act of BS. I didnt call her on it or bring it up because I already knew what she meant. Additionally she warm approached me in the park and initiated contact even though she rejected me last night? I decided to leave the conversation on my own terms because she wasnt making much sense, I was surprised she stopped me. Anyway, as you can see I made no suggestions about seeing her at dinner later or whatever I just kept moving. I decided not to haggle her for a reason why shes giving so much resistance as that would definitely end in a ****block boyfriend excuse.

Maybe I could of done more with this but Im starting to lose attraction to this girl, the next time she gives me resistance Im tempted to try and kiss her to cut the BS. Unfortunately because shes work related that would be a dumb idea so I have to play cool and just ignore her somewhat at this point.


I find this funny because we are both in different hotels and there are many walks through the park and things to do in the town, the odds of this encounter happening were infinity low.


nyc123: This is a self-improvement forum also, as long as there are questions and your not just being 'egotistical' people will help you out.

Dude, why did you try to take her to a cathedral instead of back to your room??? Seriously what the hell were you thinking??

She was probably shaking her head in disbelief...bad, bad, bad missed opportunity.

You trying to talk to them or f*ck them??

 

[DragonBlood]

ah well. no happy ending. but a good story nonetheless. I've been following each chapter. overall i think you performed well.

Thanks nyc. Happy endings are for movies but at the same time I enjoyed sharing a short-term journal to help others. It also helped me remember more of the experiences and really critique myself for next time. I dont know when the next business trip will be (a year or less maybe) but I will definitely create a separate thread for it and PM you the link. Ive never had the discipline to journal everything and I think people would drift off a 22+ page thread, but short term country/trip specific journals with hard deadlines and the freedom to try out other DJs advice in the field sounds like fun.

I also wanted to share the main highlights for anyone thinking of gaming abroad. These are in order of importance

Tips for gaming abroad

1. Lemsip
If you forget all the other tips do not forget this one. I will not make this mistake again. Shortly into my trip I caught a cold. Normally a cold isnt a big deal as you can rest up and go out next week. But abroad recovery is absolutely critical. There was plenty of days where I wasnt 100% and was more concerned about masking a cold and finding energy than giving a girl my best. I definitely lost opportunities because of this, sarging hard in the mornings and kino with foreigners is a recipe for illness. You cant game if you are sick. I couldnt find any brands I recognized or took the impact/length of the cold seriously enough. Do not leave home without cold flu medicine.

2. Sight Seeing (logistics)
This goes without saying but you should make time to sight see. This is to you know, actually enjoy your trip and bring stories home. Additionally this makes you the 'local expert' among your travel group and gives you a selection of places to take someone on a date that you meant to visit. Sight seeing also opens up most of your cold approaches without going out just to sarge.

3. Escalate Early
People make generalizations about you based on the information you give them, and when abroad this is based on even LESS information. Be ****y and ask for a hang out or instant date early. This will give you a solid foundation to work from. Additionally if the girl rejects, what have you really lost? There is still half a week of your trip to go. Its better to get the rejection sooner than later mainly so you can demonstrate immediate aloofness and humour. The girl will be more receptive to giving you a second chance. Even though things didnt work out for me with AG it would have been far worse if I asked her out late in the trip. Instead I could demonstrate Im not only confident but also aloof, and in the end she asked me to have dinner with me so she could get my facebook and 'keep in touch'. Escalate Early.

4. Capital City
This relates directly to cold approaching. If you can plan your trip abroad at the capital city of the country. Besides better facilities you will have a much higher population density to practice on. The last thing you want is to plan your trip around a great location where there is no one to game.

5. Experiment
Remind yourself, in that shaky moment of weakness, you are on holiday. You will never see these people again and shouldnt worry about ****ing up. Such as the very public example with the subway girl I got caught up in the moment before reminding myself to just take the risk. There is a huge amount of room to experiment and make mistakes while your abroad and then bringing that experience home.

 

[DragonBlood]

Dude, why did you try to take her to a cathedral instead of back to your room??? Seriously what the hell were you thinking??

She was probably shaking her head in disbelief...bad, bad, bad missed opportunity.

You trying to talk to them or f*ck them??

Hey marmel, thanks for the advice. Ive actually been thinking about the park encounter the most, and ALL the other ways I could of handled this interaction better as it was the most important with this girl.

To answer your question directly, she was a co-worker I had met only the night before and on that night I asked her out. She rejected. When she stopped me in the park the following morning, although I was admittedly confused I had no reason to believe she was interested. The girl said she wanted to sight see and I was taking this as an opportunity to go for an instant date to build interest. I suppose I could of said "my hotel room" instead of "the cathedral" which would have been funny but considering she rejected afew hours ago it would have come across a bit desperate. I gave her two chances early on to let me escalate during activities she wanted to do and she said no. If a girl doesnt want to spend time with you alone I dont think it really matters where you ask her to go.

Personally I think spending more time with her in the park, getting her to sit down at a bench and going for a make out session would have been the best option. I should definitely of moved her to a bench to continue the conversation since neither of us had solid plans. How would you have gotten this girl back to the hotel in this instance though? Considering the rejection from yesterday?