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Career Path and Financial Independence?

samspade

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I was just wondering, how many of you gentlemen consider yourselves "financially independent"? I know that's sort of a loose term. How many of you are in jobs that pay the bills but are working toward something more in line with your dreams? (It's okay if you like your 9 to 5, I've nothing against that.) Have any of you taken a calculated risk to work toward what you really want - or do you plan to?

I have a really great job right now, but not necessarily one that I'd want to stick with beyond another 2-3 years. However, I'd ideally like to spearhead my own projects and make my own money. I know you're never really without a "boss" if you have clients, customers, investors, creditors, etc. But I want to push myself toward taking a calculated risk, once I'm prepared.

I know this all sounds vague, but I'd like to hear your advice or stories about this kind of thing.
 

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Scaramouche

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Dear Sam Spade,
I have been financially independent for 17 years....Yes I planned it..I bought houses on large blocks of Land built a second house,renting out the main house while I built the second house myself...being in a very prosperous town with a fast expanding population there was never any risk in this.
 

Lexington

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Put your career first and everything else falls into place later. It's tough to sacrifice and work hard now for the future, but it pays off in the long run. And that's ultimately what it's all about.

What I want is a career and not just a job....there's a difference.
 

Teflon_Mcgee

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Seldom is a career the path to financial independence.

Even if your career gets you $250k+ per year, you will still be required to make vast sacrifices for a period of time to gain financial independence.

Of course having a well paying career puts you ahead in the fact that you can either save more (slow and steady) or invest in creating alternative incomes.

The later option is (IMO) the most superior way to gain financial independence (unless your career is in a very secure field and you will be very happy doing it for the next 20-40 years.)

The bottom line is, a career leads to a slow accumulation of wealth (if you are smart about things.)

The reality is, the same amount of wealth (and much much more) that can be created in a career over a lifetime can also be created in a matter of years if you choose the right endeavor.

For instance, I have a nice career as an engineer. However, the man I work for (whose products I design), will make 20-30 times what I make this year. There are people who do less than him and will still make 10 times what he makes this year.
 

Warrior74

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Well. I'm out of my 9 to 5. I started a side business last year to pay off debts and to get into a position to buy a home. I got fired this week, but since I have my business in place, I know I have something coming in. If you have projects you want to do, start them now while you have the security. If you have debt right now. Get rid of it as fast as humanly possible, eat ramen, ride the bus, sell your stuff. Do this while you still have an income. Then take the money from those bills and start putting it into your projects. You have to get aggressive with your life.
 

Romjuan

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I hear a lot from many people on this forum that they have projects, side jobs, and/ or are very succesful working for themselves. Can you guys tell me what you do for these projects or side jobs? I am trying to get some income flowing but only have time for my 9-5. It is just enough to pay bills. Id like to work for myself but have no idea what type of business. Im great at sales but not an expert on any products.
 

sodbuster

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What are you doing that you only have time for a 9 to 5 and no extra? On the farm as a kid, I'd work 60 to 70 hours a week and still had time to drink beer and chase women. Now, I leave at 730,get back at 6 cook supper and spend 2 hours a night reading investment newsletters/blogs. Sat. and Sun. off for the most part. TV and computer games don't return much value.Take a sheet of paper and turn it into a graph...days of the week on top,hours of the day on the side. Block off the hours you sleep,work and eat..... see how much time a week you are pizzing down the drain.
 

samspade

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Thanks for your insights, guys.

Here's the way I see my setup...

I work at a university, so I have it pretty good. That is, I'm treated all right, my hours are great, and I have great benefits and a lot of vacation days.

None of that means anything if I'm not taking advantage, however. For instance, I'm saving as much as possible in my 401k (which is also generously matched) and paying down debts. I'm trying to use my free time to focus on my "side projects" and stay healthy and hungry. I've had other jobs where I worked 50-60 hours a week and was too burned out for anything else.

I'm pretty frugal - I've discovered a whole new world of thrift stores (which in NYC offer some pretty nice threads, like new). I use the library more and Amazon less. A lot more cooking and bringing lunches. This all helps me save and reduce debt. As long as I can travel a little, I'm happy.

Late last week I heard that a colleague of mine was leaving her job. It probably pays more than mine and would be a "step up" in the technical sense. But the more I thought about it, the less I wanted it. I don't want to be stuck inching up the ladder here (I am an administrator, not faculty). To me it's not worth another $10k a year to start piling on more crap when I'm enjoying the job I have.

Basically I want to set a timetable where I keep this job another 2-3 years while I build something on the side, which (I hope) will make me happier and more independent.

Luckily they do like me here - I just got a raise after an earlier bonus. But of course nothing is guaranteed so I have to keep moving and building.

Sodbuster you're right - sometimes I come home and realize I've sat in front of the TV for way too long - we have more time than we realize.
 

Lexington

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Teflon_Mcgee said:
Seldom is a career the path to financial independence.

Even if your career gets you $250k+ per year, you will still be required to make vast sacrifices for a period of time to gain financial independence.

Of course having a well paying career puts you ahead in the fact that you can either save more (slow and steady) or invest in creating alternative incomes.

The later option is (IMO) the most superior way to gain financial independence (unless your career is in a very secure field and you will be very happy doing it for the next 20-40 years.)

The bottom line is, a career leads to a slow accumulation of wealth (if you are smart about things.)

The reality is, the same amount of wealth (and much much more) that can be created in a career over a lifetime can also be created in a matter of years if you choose the right endeavor.

For instance, I have a nice career as an engineer. However, the man I work for (whose products I design), will make 20-30 times what I make this year. There are people who do less than him and will still make 10 times what he makes this year.
I agree that even the most solid of careers require sacrifices and usually will result in you gradually accumulating wealth. To be sure a successful business venture is a MUCH better way to make money.

But I have to stress the word "successful." The richest 1% of this country commands 23% of the wealth and more than the bottom 50% combined! Those are the folks that own businesses. But creating and sustaining a successful business is far easier said than done.

For every successful businessman, there are several more people that failed. I'm not trying to put a damper on anyone's hopes and dreams here. But I just wanted to say that the business option is highly risky and statistically speaking, the odds of failure are very high.

This is why I think it's best to go with a middle path. Get into a solid career....something that will give you a steady and secure income. At the same time, work on investing and try to gradually transition over to the business full time if you have success in that area. If you fail, you always have something to fall back on.

Generally, the old adage of "slow and steady wins the race" holds true. You might not get rich overnight, but you will also increase the likelihood of you getting rich eventually.
 

Lexington

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Teflon_Mcgee said:
Seldom is a career the path to financial independence.

Even if your career gets you $250k+ per year, you will still be required to make vast sacrifices for a period of time to gain financial independence.

Of course having a well paying career puts you ahead in the fact that you can either save more (slow and steady) or invest in creating alternative incomes.

The later option is (IMO) the most superior way to gain financial independence (unless your career is in a very secure field and you will be very happy doing it for the next 20-40 years.)

The bottom line is, a career leads to a slow accumulation of wealth (if you are smart about things.)

The reality is, the same amount of wealth (and much much more) that can be created in a career over a lifetime can also be created in a matter of years if you choose the right endeavor.

For instance, I have a nice career as an engineer. However, the man I work for (whose products I design), will make 20-30 times what I make this year. There are people who do less than him and will still make 10 times what he makes this year.
I agree that even the most solid of careers require sacrifices and usually will result in you gradually accumulating wealth. To be sure a successful business venture is a MUCH better way to make money.

But I have to stress the word "successful." The richest 1% of this country commands 23% of the wealth and more than the bottom 50% combined! Those are the folks that own businesses. But creating and sustaining a successful business is far easier said than done.

For every successful businessman, there are several more people that failed. I'm not trying to put a damper on anyone's hopes and dreams here. But I just wanted to say that the business option is highly risky and statistically speaking, the odds of failure are very high.

This is why I think it's best to go with a middle path. Get into a solid career....something that will give you a steady and secure income. At the same time, work on investing and try to gradually transition over to the business full time if you have success in that area. If you fail, you always have something to fall back on.

Generally, the old adage of "slow and steady" wins the race holds true. You might not get rich overnight, but you will also increase the likelihood of you getting rich eventually.
 

Teflon_Mcgee

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Lexington said:
For every successful businessman, there are several more people that failed. I'm not trying to put a damper on anyone's hopes and dreams here. But I just wanted to say that the business option is highly risky and statistically speaking, the odds of failure are very high.

While this is a valid argument, I think it is worth taking a deeper look at the statistics.

The odds of any one venture failing are high. However, over the lifetime of an entrepreneur the odds go way down.

A large percentage of failed business are a result of either inexperience or simply because they were not well thought out.

I don't have numbers but I do know from my studies of successful entrepreneurs that this is mostly true.

For instance, Andrew Mason turned down a 6 billion dollar buyout last year. A success by any measure. However, none of his other ventures were any type of success (they were failures.)

This story is constantly played out. Many super successful entrepreneurs failed several times before achieving success.

As far as 1% of of Americans controlling 23% of the wealth,this should bear any impact. Think about this: How many people do you know who work for small businesses? Virtually everybody I know does.

Chances are, the owners of those small businesses do not belong to that top 1% of wealth owners yet they most likely belong to at least the top 1.5% of income earners.


Lexington said:
Generally, the old adage of "slow and steady" wins the race holds true. You might not get rich overnight, but you will also increase the likelihood of you getting rich eventually.
For all the merit of "slow and steady", I think it's important that people at least realize that "fast and hard" is a very real possibility. After all, I think the one thing we can all agree on is that it's much better to be enjoying millions of dollars at 35 years old than scrimping and saving till 65.
 

backbreaker

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People, don't fail, they quit. There is a big difference between the two. You only fail, when you stop trying. As cliche as it sounds it's true. IF you want to count, getting conned out of every dime we had, having to live out of a car, being kicked out my house becuase we had no money, not having enough money to buy inventory to handle orders and having to shut down for a month to gather money, spending thousands fo dollars on computers you knew you were going to sale but had to end up basically parting them out becuase you could not get rid of them and various other circumstances that I don't have time to get into.. lol, one really.. .actually 2 really nasty ones in particular, that damn near brought me to my knees at one point.. hell I failed probably close to 15 or 20 times lol. But no one cares about that, I never quit, and as long as I had skin in the game i was not a failure. You eventually, will catch your break as long as you keep trying and you will not be a failure. Oh, but i' failed, hard. very hard lol. lots and lots of times.

let me put it in perspective of how bad I had "failed' by the time I didn't fail. My bank had my on chexsystems becuase I owed them money. I had 1 pair of shoes. I had like a 450 credit score lol. I slept on an inflatable air mattresses on the floor. I had a 19 inch tv and didnt' even have a stand to put it on, it sat floor level with me in my room. My car, was half bashed in and barley ran, and at the time, the day I knew that all that was going to change, I probably had 4 or 5 days worth of food in the pantry. I had "failed" by everyone's definition. But I had the foresight to see and know, even when I was flat broke that we werent' far off, we just hadn't gotten it right yet. But I knew we would eventually get it right, and we did.

It's no different than drug addiction. I used to be a drug addict, a bad one at one point. I don't do drugs anymore. Haven't for half a decade. You would say I am a successful recovering addit?well what about the 3 times I went into impatient becuase I kept relapsing? What about all the nights I swore off drugs only to run to the ATM that night and bang down my dealers door for dope? That's at least 20 times lol. What about the time I looked my oneitis in the face and told her I wasn't using, and the second she walked out the door I pulled the pipe out of my pocket and took a big fat ass hit lol? Or what about the time I moved all the way to Florida to get away from the drugs, only to get so racked up for drugs I cruised the streets utnil i found someone that looked like an addict and made me take them to score some dope? you want to talk about feeling like a failure, I never felt lower in my life, then moving to sarasota to get away from the little rock dope scene, only to blow it 2 weeks after I got there and spend about a grand on dope in 3 nights.. do you now how bad that comedown is, knowing that you tried to run from your problems, and having to realize that you are the ****ing problem? I never felt worse in my life, than that morning when I was out of dope, and while I still had plenty of money, just wasn't even getting high anymore i had smoked so much. And even then, sitting on the hotel floor crying my eyes out, sleepy, hungry, high as a ****ing kite, i wasn't a failure. I just hadn't gotten it right yet, i hadn't approached the problem in the correct way.

like drug addiction, too many people quit what they are trying to break through in, before they get it right. I've seen addicts, you can just see it in their eyes, just that look of hopelessness that, this is my life, they have given up all hope, beucase ethey hyave tired a few times, maybe even more than a few times to quit and couldn't and have just conceeded to the fact that this is who they are now, an addict. Well i'm here to tell you, that, like drug addiciton, you can do it. Whatever it is i don't care. But no one said it would be easy, no one said it wouldn't' require you to work your ****ign ass off, and no one said it wouldnt' require you to make sacrifices.

I properly failed, well over 50 times at least in my recovery. But, eventually, I didn't fail. I eventually got it and it stuck. The truth is, i never was a failure, I just had not got it yet.



I assure you, i'm not stupid but i'm not any smarter than anyone here, I'm a pretty common guy in that regard. Yes I probably work harder and i push myself but I'm not a genius or anything. But, I don't quit. I am just that damn stubborn. "Rather it be starting a business, or a web development company, or chasing a girl (that character trait, the stubbornness to not give up is why i chased my oneitis as long as I did), or kicking a nasty drug habit. I will get it.

The problem with most people is not that they fail, but when they fail, they don't make the necessary changes to reattack the problem to succeed.

Not for everyone. And that's for you, all the **** I went through, it is called **** for a reason. But, there is no laws on who can or who cannot succeed. I cannot let a post like that go by without commenting on it because it's just not true. And I don't say that in a sense, to try to prove you wrong or to pump my chest out by any stretch, if you decide that you are not a risk taker, good for you, don't take risks. But nothing peeves me off more than people who go out of their way to discourage people from taking risks by telling them what is and is not possible.


I see a head doctor once every 2 weeks, I have for quite a while, part of my drug recovery, and it helps with other issues I have. She is convinced, that I have borderline personality disorder. I don't even disagree with her at this poinht, but i refuse to take any mediation for it. we got into an interesting convo one day, about a year ago, that the same things that she calls my issues, are the same things, the good things, that make me the person I am today. Whens something gets on my mind, I'm obsessed with it. It's all I think about, to the point where i will lock myself in a room to figure it out. I do nothing half assed. when I wanted to lose weight i worked out for about 4 hours a day and in 2 months I had shed close to 40 pounds. Whatever it is, I have to figure it out. That is part of what makes me me. It's how I am wired. There is no moving on lol. At that point, risks, consequences of taking risks, aren't as important to me as figuring out what needs to be done. What I am getting at is, I very well could just be wired differently. I have a predisposition to risk taking that I just don't see in other people. I can spend 5k grand of a 20 grand bankroll on 1 horse race, lose, and honestly not bat an eye. I've done it more than once. (true story, last year's breeders cup, there were 3 races, that in my mind were stone cold locks, all on the 2nd day. The first one was the mile, but the odds, I couldn't take so I passed the race. She won for fun. The second, was the breeders cup turf, I did not see a way that the fav was going to lose and If I a recall, and I found the odds acceptable, I went to 20% of my bankroll, which i won't get into the amount but it is big boy money. Lost the race, I knew i had lost when they hit the turn. She ahd never seen me wager that much, I didn't think twice about it went and got a hot dog, came back, my last onne was blame in the breeders cup classic, I didn't see him losing, put the exactg same amount on that horse, that was the first time in us being together she tired to talk me out of a wager because I had just "lost so much money" lol, I told her babe, I got this **** lol. you just sit there and look pretty. sure enough won by a nose. She could not believe I had the stones to make a wager that big, after I had lost a wager that big, and not bad and eye. and honestly had I even lost that one, really would nt have cared. it's a nubmers game, i'm going to win some i'm going to lose some.) I know I"m going to lose some, I know i'm going to win some as well. It's just part of hte game to me. But I don't have a gambling problem because I might only make 10 wagers a week, and that's a big week for me, I don't wager that much. The bets I make are extremely calculated, they are just huge compared in porpotion to my bankroll. But in turn it allows me to really concentrate on a few races instead of trying to bet a little on a lot of races, I'd rather bet a lot on a little. I actually feel much worse if I go to the track and keep betting 20-30 dollars on every race without doing my due diligence, because I feel liek I'm wasting money if that makes any sense.


NEVER, take advice from someone, who is not in a positron you want to be in. If you want to be macking 4 women at once, don't take advice from a nerd who doesn't get laid. If you want to quit doing drugs dont' go to the crackhouse asking for advice. If you want lose weight, dont' take advice from a fat slob. If you have dreams of starting a business or you have an entrepreneurial mindset, dont' take advice, form someone who thinks risks, is stealing 2 newspapers when you only put 50 cents in the newsstand.
 
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squirrels

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I envy you guys who have the talents/skills necessary to come up with worthwhile business endeavors. I really do look up to you and wish I could be like you...in the same way a man with no legs wishes he could run a marathon. :p

How do we regular "schmucks" who lack inspiration/vision find it? All the books I've read on success and determination seem targeted at people who already have an idea, a vision, and are just failing at the resolve to see it to fruition. What help is there for those who lack vision?
 

speed dawg

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squirrels said:
I envy you guys who have the talents/skills necessary to come up with worthwhile business endeavors. I really do look up to you and wish I could be like you...in the same way a man with no legs wishes he could run a marathon. :p

How do we regular "schmucks" who lack inspiration/vision find it? All the books I've read on success and determination seem targeted at people who already have an idea, a vision, and are just failing at the resolve to see it to fruition. What help is there for those who lack vision?
I'm with you, Squirrels. I have no good ideas. I have a nice career and I thought about refereeing football games on the sides. I have no good ideas for a side business though, but I really wish I did. Something I enjoy doing.

Dave Ramsey says to work your job for income, then do something you enjoy on the side. Most people can't do something they love for a living, just not possible. So what is that? I love golf, but I'll never be a pro. Guess I could get a job as a grass mower.
 

5string

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Being one of the older guys, let me tell you what worked for me. I have been consistent on putting away money ever since I started working. My investments have been moderate to slightly risky. Now I'm being a bit more conservative. In short, I have been doing this since my mid twenties and it will pay off when I retire.

It's never too late to stash cash into 401K's, Roth Ira's, etc no matter your age.

A good story though. Back in the 90's, I put about 30K into Dell, Amazon and Ebay stock kinda on a whim. Sold it all at it's peak (got lucky), and put it all into real estate and made more money on the real estate. I'm no financial genius, just fortunate.

Just put it away when you can, no matter how much.
 

backbreaker

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ideas are a dime a dozen. what matters is the will to actually see through the idea that you have.
 

squirrels

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backbreaker said:
ideas are a dime a dozen. what matters is the will to actually see through the idea that you have.
This is how people like you think...they think to themselves, "I always have these ideas coming to me...if they're coming to me they must be coming to EVERYONE, and if they're not making money on them, it's because they're lazy".

I know you've been through a lot of crap in your situation, and you're under the impression that, "If *I* can do it, anyone can!" But as you said, it's the same aspects of your personality that caused your problems that gave you the ability to excel at what you do. Admit it...you enjoy what you do. Even when the whole web-development thing is p!ssing you off, you're still loving the conflict.

I've known people who have a talent and passion for "business" no matter what it is...they can do things that would make someone else absolutely miserable and ENJOY it because they love the process of making money.

Then there are people who don't necessarily have the passion for "business", but they have a good head for it, and they have a passion for the specific business idea they're running with. They get INTO something they really enjoy doing and that's what motivates them to succeed in the business.

I'm neither...I don't have a head or passion for business...it bores the p!ss out of me...and the things I DO enjoy doing and am willing to commit time and energy to, I'm either not very good at or they don't make me money.

You guys are addicted to the "hustle"...get money, get b!tches, get more money, get more b!tches. Somehow I just lost track of the "point" of it all. If I spend five or ten or fifteen years of my life "building an empire", I don't become an emperor as a result. I'm still just me...only I'm me with money and b!tches. Is that what makes a "man"??

I've always said to myself, "If you don't have something, it's probably because you don't want it enough". Maybe I just don't want it enough. I'm just staring the inevitability of my own end in the face and thinking, "My time here is limited...do I want to sacrifice THIS time on doing something that makes me miserable just so I have a little more money to throw around when I'm 40 or 50 or 60??" I don't need a teacup giraffe and golden walnuts...what am I gonna do with that crap?

Eventually, just like Alexander, I rot in the ground and whatever kingdom I did or didn't build crumbles into dust.

I don't know what it is that motivates guys like you...and for sure I envy it, but I haven't found that motivation within myself. I guess that makes me an inferior specimen or something. What can I do?

I mean, what drives you? Are you guys trying to prove something to yourselves with this "get money, get b!tches" attitude all the time? Do you really have THAT much love for it?

Heh, put me on a rock-wall or on a motorcycle and I'm ready to destroy my body to prove something, but only because I love the challenge THAT much. Put me in a three-piece suit and turn me loose in the business world...and I'm waiting for 5 O'clock. This crap just doesn't interest me. I hate trying to sell ideas to people who are too dumb to think of them themselves. I feel sorry for them...I feel like a LOT of "business" feels taking advantage of other people's failures. "Selling" in general feels like a dark art...like you're mind-f**king someone else.

Hell, I used to get off on the whole "seduction" dance back when I felt like I had something to prove to my peers, that I had what it takes to "pull women" after going through high school and college and not getting laid. Now...I've proven that I CAN do it, but I neither enjoy it nor do I gain immense satisfaction with the "prize". F**k sex. Even the women that I find sexually attractive don't interest me on a metaphysical level...I'm essentially masturbating with their p*ssies. What's the point of that? What satisfaction is there in conquering a bubble-headed bimbo?

I probably shouldn't even be ON this forum any more...I'm just discouraging the young guys who DO have the gifts and enthusiasm that you have. By all means, if you feel the passion for getting money, go out and GET MONEY, and don't stop for any reason.

I just don't want anything any more. The Buddhists must think that's an enviable position to be in, but it's not, it's actually quite boring. Some days I feel like living or dying are equally attractive alternatives. :p

Pook and the old SoSuave sages used to say, "Eliminate desire". That seems to have been a mistake. ;)
 
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5string

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Some guys can run a business....no problemo. I don't know if I could or even be good at it.

Had this guy who lived three doors down from me go broke, left the keys to his house on the counter and they foreclosed on it. The guy just bailed. He had some sort of storage business along with one of those dinner cruise operations off the west coast somewhere. Fella had degrees from both Harvard and Stanford.

Some people just don't have a knack for it. I admire the ones who can as squirrels said. Also shows that just because you have an education, it can never take the place of common sense, savvy and motivation.
 

samspade

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Incidentally, my side ambitions aren't to start a business. I'm actually looking to find opportunities in front of a camera. Not acting - that's not really my thing. More like, hosting, interviewing, etc. Preferably for content involving history, trivia, travel, etc. This isn't so much so I can "get rich" as it is for me to pursue something fun - more fun than sitting behind a desk and answer to others. However, everyone's advice here has been great - the lessons apply no matter what.
 

Warrior74

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squirrels said:
This is how people like you think...they think to themselves, "I always have these ideas coming to me...if they're coming to me they must be coming to EVERYONE, and if they're not making money on them, it's because they're lazy".

I know you've been through a lot of crap in your situation, and you're under the impression that, "If *I* can do it, anyone can!" But as you said, it's the same aspects of your personality that caused your problems that gave you the ability to excel at what you do. Admit it...you enjoy what you do. Even when the whole web-development thing is p!ssing you off, you're still loving the conflict.

I've known people who have a talent and passion for "business" no matter what it is...they can do things that would make someone else absolutely miserable and ENJOY it because they love the process of making money.

Then there are people who don't necessarily have the passion for "business", but they have a good head for it, and they have a passion for the specific business idea they're running with. They get INTO something they really enjoy doing and that's what motivates them to succeed in the business.

I'm neither...I don't have a head or passion for business...it bores the p!ss out of me...and the things I DO enjoy doing and am willing to commit time and energy to, I'm either not very good at or they don't make me money.

You guys are addicted to the "hustle"...get money, get b!tches, get more money, get more b!tches. Somehow I just lost track of the "point" of it all. If I spend five or ten or fifteen years of my life "building an empire", I don't become an emperor as a result. I'm still just me...only I'm me with money and b!tches. Is that what makes a "man"??

I've always said to myself, "If you don't have something, it's probably because you don't want it enough". Maybe I just don't want it enough. I'm just staring the inevitability of my own end in the face and thinking, "My time here is limited...do I want to sacrifice THIS time on doing something that makes me miserable just so I have a little more money to throw around when I'm 40 or 50 or 60??" I don't need a teacup giraffe and golden walnuts...what am I gonna do with that crap?

Eventually, just like Alexander, I rot in the ground and whatever kingdom I did or didn't build crumbles into dust.

I don't know what it is that motivates guys like you...and for sure I envy it, but I haven't found that motivation within myself. I guess that makes me an inferior specimen or something. What can I do?

I mean, what drives you? Are you guys trying to prove something to yourselves with this "get money, get b!tches" attitude all the time? Do you really have THAT much love for it?

Heh, put me on a rock-wall or on a motorcycle and I'm ready to destroy my body to prove something, but only because I love the challenge THAT much. Put me in a three-piece suit and turn me loose in the business world...and I'm waiting for 5 O'clock. This crap just doesn't interest me. I hate trying to sell ideas to people who are too dumb to think of them themselves. I feel sorry for them...I feel like a LOT of "business" feels taking advantage of other people's failures. "Selling" in general feels like a dark art...like you're mind-f**king someone else.

Hell, I used to get off on the whole "seduction" dance back when I felt like I had something to prove to my peers, that I had what it takes to "pull women" after going through high school and college and not getting laid. Now...I've proven that I CAN do it, but I neither enjoy it nor do I gain immense satisfaction with the "prize". F**k sex. Even the women that I find sexually attractive don't interest me on a metaphysical level...I'm essentially masturbating with their p*ssies. What's the point of that? What satisfaction is there in conquering a bubble-headed bimbo?

I probably shouldn't even be ON this forum any more...I'm just discouraging the young guys who DO have the gifts and enthusiasm that you have. By all means, if you feel the passion for getting money, go out and GET MONEY, and don't stop for any reason.

I just don't want anything any more. The Buddhists must think that's an enviable position to be in, but it's not, it's actually quite boring. Some days I feel like living or dying are equally attractive alternatives. :p

Pook and the old SoSuave sages used to say, "Eliminate desire". That seems to have been a mistake. ;)
You've lost all the joy in life. What brings you joy? It's not even about running a business. What would you enjoy doing? If nothing makes you happy, maybe you should try serving other people, do something to help others and see how that makes your feel. Or maybe you're depressed and need to sort it out. It just doesn't sound like a healthy mindset and your business at the moment should be figuring out if this mindset is normal and then doing something about it.
 
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