BPD's can control their behavior…they choose not to

[halks01]

My friend had a sex with her friend and she got pregnant. And she is not ready so I gave her some suggestion and told her that to use MTP kit abortion pills. It is very at price and it will help her a lot to abort the unwanted pregnancy.

 

[noBSgames]

Today was so funny.. so my exbpd gf I was blindsided for 2 years and all of a sudden she got married... anyways shes still like trying to figure out what's going in my life and my friend's girl was telling me some of the stuff my ex was saying to her.. the way she told me lies she was just as bad telling them to her.. same with her saying she had family here in Connecticut when she said oh I can stay with them and she knew no family existed she backed away and said maybe not today.. kinda sad if you think about it..

Also she told her and her other friend she swore up and down I was cheating and both of the girls were like we would know and we know Mike is not like that.. again she was caught and by that time they started to notice that something is just not "right" She was accusing me so hard that she ended being the one that was cheating on me and here we stand today 2 years wasted while she got married behind my back.. but however still trying to see and get ever little bit of info that she can on me while her husband is in another country and shes here... Yeah really smart

Anyways we all decided to be in on a joke to piss her off and sure enough it worked lol it was perfect timing but I was on a ride with a girl behind me and she was waving right at the perfect timing so it looked like we were dating lol she did not message me but she did to my friend's girlfriend and she was like .....?

 

[Pretentious Bread]

Good stuff here. It's important to understand the reason behind this. They are filled with great shame from childhood wounds. By calling them out on their lies, this makes them feel ashamed of themselves and the ONLY way to combat that is through several defense mechinisms they developed as children. Things like devaluing, blameshifting, acting superior and ultimately discarding you. It's done to protect their incredibly fragile non existent identities.

Old post, but this is so on the money. Before my discard, I called her out on a clear manipulation, telling her I didn't play games and was disappointed to see she'd act in a way like this. She turned on the water works (in public), twisted it to make me look unreasonable. No matter what way I broke down the basic concept of empathy from both of our perspectives, she would just frame things her own way, and the bottom line was that I had upset her and now it was my problem to fix. We fixed it that night with unreal makeup sex (always the BPD method of conflict resolution), but of course, it wasn't really fixed.

But a week later, I don't think I'll ever get out of my head the smug air of superiority she carried into the restaurant where she dumped me halfway through dinner. She'd already had a couple of drinks (and she tends to get wasted easily) in the bar before we met up, and she was interrupting me, talking over me, flirting subtly with the waiters, dominating the conversation, steered it then in the direction of discarding me, by listing all my various 'faults'. Complete character assassination, couple right beside us heard every word, staring down at their table. Could not ****ing believe it.

It's one thing being dumped for BS concocted reasons, it's another thing being done in public, but what was most chilling of all was witnessing how she was revelling in it, her feeling of power and control over me was clear to see in her eyes, and just tossing me away, it was like she never looked so alive as those moments when she was flying high on this power trip. Absolutely disgusting. I just cannot fathom how a person can derive so much pleasure in that that it overrides all sense of empathy and decency for another human being.

I'll not lie, I've been profoundly affected by this experience. I get vengeful and powerful fantasies as much as the next person, but I have a filter known as conscience which prevents me from acting these things out. Apparently a BPD with a few drinks in her does not.

 

[Pretentious Bread]

I found that in another Thread but think it is worth to repost in here.
The whole thread is a good read.
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/help-possible-cluster-b-feeling-totally-lost.183173/page-8
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49au
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Secondly, forgive her. It is not anyone's fault that they have BPD. That does not mean that her actions are appropriate, healthy, or should be condoned. It also does not mean that they are fit for relationships. I am not saying any of that. I'm saying that you have experienced someone whose self-loathing, pain, fear, and despair is unfathomable, and she will be this way FOREVER. Honestly? I pity my ex. I'm not going to be her tampon, her therapist, her friend, or anything else, but I pity her. I hope she gets help. I hope yours gets help. It may not seem like it sometimes, but these women are MISERABLE. They are broken, hurting, and lost in ways that you and I will never be. And the good news is that WE have the capacity to examine our wounds, move forward, and become stronger men with stronger boundaries and more to offer a healthy woman. But our exes? They will continue to drift in the black void they call their life.


The last two points have been disputed in this thread so I'm going to write another post with a different perspective.


Also -



Findog said:
"It brings back all the feelings I've been working on trying to process - the lack of closure, not understanding it, the hurt of losing her, feeling like I have struggled to enjoy my life fully while healing whereas she appears to have moved on to a carefree existence."


If you think that a woman with BPD can have a carefree existence, you do not understand this disorder.

As far as her forgetting you - BPDs do not grieve, they repress. Devaluation and splitting are their bread and butter. It's how they avoid asking themselves, "Why did I push a good man away?" She will revise history and find some way to make you unsuitable, find some reason why it would never have worked anyway, etc. It's like a psychological levee they build in order to keep out memories and feelings which will lead to pain, which will lead to introspection and accountability. They are obviously terrified of these things. This "levee" can consist of lies she tells herself about you, some new guy, her career, anything to distract her.

Weeks or months later, that levee will probably break. And when that happens, she will go through the pain she DIDN'T go through at the beginning. This is why you will read so much about them re-engaging, "hoovering", etc. They never really get over anyone. They just bury, bury, bury.




There is a very unhealthy idea (IMHO) on this forum that BPDs intentionally "victimize" and manipulate men only to leave them. Yet I think, as Die Hard said, it is naive to give them that much credit. BPDs have been called "evil", "vampires", etc., but in reality they are just very sick people whose brains simply don't process the world correctly. This means that they leave a trail of destruction, but it does not mean that they intended to.

This is due to both nature AND nurture. These people experience childhood trauma of some sort, and are stuck around 3 years old in their psychological development (nurture) Yet it has been shown that there are physical differences in a BPD's brain (nature).


Proponents of this idea will argue that BPDs are hyper-emotional and experience wild highs and lows, then turn around and say that these women feel nothing for their victims. This is contradictory. The problem is not LACK of emotion, it is dysregulation of emotion.

These men will also argue that borderline women are grand schemers and masterful manipulators who plot things weeks and months in advance... while in the same post conceding that BPDs have the emotional and psychological capacity of a 3 year old.

I don't know a whole lot of 3 year olds who are capable of grand, complex schemes. Yes, borderline women CAN be extremely intelligent (mine has maintained nearly flawless grades through 3+ years of med school), but their emotional intelligence is practically zero. Combine this with their inability to regulate emotion, their sheer impulsiveness, and I find it hard to believe that these women intentionally lay complex plans for the future.

As mine told me from the very beginning, "I'm not a planner. I hate plans." (One of the few things I believe her about now )



BPDs are addicted to the longing for love. They will chase it, and re-live childhood abandonment over and over and over again. This is their subconscious drive. Consciously, however, they are desperately looking for "The One", that magical person who will cure their problems and fill the giant void they have in place of a true sense of self.

Someone like that recycles men not because they hate men; but because they are constantly realizing that the new guy is not providing that magic bullet, the wholeness they are seeking. The difference between a normal person and a BPD is that a BPD is capable of realizing, "This person is not going to make me whole," but they are too childlike to realize that "no other person is ever going to make me whole." The cycle repeats because they are incapable of connecting the dots and realizing that the problem is not the men in their cycle, the problem is the goal of the cycle.

In the beginning, they desperately want to love you. They want you to be "The One." And they think you are. And they are full of love for you (or what they interpret as love)!

Too many guys are listening to this "she never loved you" line, and it is both wrong and damaging. You are left with the impression that it was all a lie, and it wasn't. Was it real, healthy, reciprocal adult love? No... but it was not a cold, conscious manipulation. She wanted it just as much as you did. She wanted the pain to go away.

I am finally realizing what mine meant when she told me post-breakup, "I gave you my heart. What I felt for you was real. But I've given so many pieces of my heart away that I have nothing left to give." At the time it sounded like contradictory drivel; but during that very lucid period, she gave me a glimpse into her miserable life of pouring herself into guy after guy after guy, trying to find that "special" one that would fix everything from her childhood. And when she sensed that I wanted something from her, a real intimacy, she instinctively knew that she was not healthy enough to give it to me. She was not "on my level", with regard to emotional capacity. It's the same for all of them.


Remember, BPD is a personality disorder. It is not just some random neurotic behavior like biting your nails or having a fear of spiders. It is a pervasive infection of the psyche that makes these women view the world in an irrational and sometimes downright psychotic way. The way they act is terrible, hurtful, manipulative, and yes, we must avoid them at all costs. But that doesn't mean they are going around trying to victimize everyone.

Deep down, they are little children struggling with shame, self-hate, fear, confusion, rejection, and an overwhelming desire for love. Their motives are not nearly as sinister - or complex - as some would imagine.


The "hate your BPD ex because she is a psycho manipulative witch who never loved you" mindset does NOT lead to true healing. It leads to bitterness and a victim mentality. You are hers forever, whether you're in her world or not. And what's truly sick about it is that you are employing the same defense mechanisms to shield your psyche from the pain of losing her that she uses to defend from the pain of confronting herself: splitting and devaluation.

I think the proper attitude is to recognize that a) these women are severely disordered b) they really did love you (in their way) but the disorder will ALWAYS win c) they had/have good qualities that you can enjoy in a future woman d) the relationship was NOT all bad e) there WERE moments of sincerity and humanity in the relationship f) you will come out of this a stronger man.

This is a beautiful post, hits on so many important points, but most of all I think it just sees things for how they are. A BPD's trail of destruction is one of collateral damage, a BPD couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, much less scheme and plot the rise and downfall of their many 'victims'.

When my BPD added me on Facebook and I looked at her profile, I was struck with just how scatty, disorganised and silly everything was about her really. Her house was much the same, she would often tell me about her day and frequently say she'd done a tidy up, but when I got there, it was a complete bomb site; her bedroom looked like a hoarder's, you could barely move in it, and she'd no sheets on the bed. Was she squatting here or something? Wtf's going on? No, she lives here with her two picture perfect children who she utilises to great effect on Facebook to get those sweet, sweet likes, soothing her empty soul.

BPDs are characterised by impulsivity, this does not square with the idea that they set out to use and abuse people. Yes they may ultimately do that, but it isn't by design. Intentions matter, and they matter in this case because when they idealize you, although it's childish, unrealistic an unsustainable, it is at least real in that moment in time.

 

[Epic Days]

These things are incurable. You can drug them of course. It has a lot to do with personality types she runs into. Certain personalities will trigger different responses.
These are decisions based on parameters. So lets say, in her life she has run into a set of parameters and it squashes her. Her mind then sets up a solution algorithm, so to speak.
This is about survival. As long as you understand that an organism (person) is ALWAYS evaluating and selecting the most optimum solution available and within their means. A moldable or fluid frame. This is adaptation at the social level. It serves her well because it works.

Yes. It is a choice and the reason she keeps selecting that solution is because it works. Her target gets crushed instead of her. Even though the present situation is nothing like any of her previous incidents. An unobservant, head in the clouds, idealistic man has little or no chance to counter this because his personality (frame perhaps) is muddled and diluted with social programming. Here is the interesting part...that man will devise his own solutions after getting wrecked by her and then say "this is good" to his ill-fated solutions, when in fact he has sunk himself deeper into his social programming.

When a man has this, he is un-serviceable as a partner or a mate and she knows this. He is existing in a feminine dynasty and operating within those parameters set up by a combination of his passive personality and his agreement and/or acceptance of the social programming throughout his raising. So if one squashes you, it is because of you and your belief systems that were given to you by a failing civilization and not something/conclusion that you came to based on personal observation. In other words you went into agreements with lies about masculinity.

A man who lets say, disagreed with social programming early on would have no trouble with this type of woman. In fact he may even be amused by it. He rebelled against the infusion of feminine persistent propaganda or had a great mentor or even a wise father who was not clueless to the world.

The most amazing part is this man who had a great father or mentor growing up would never be her target. The idea of even defaulting to that "interesting" survival solution she has would never come up. Why? Because you are not exhibiting feminine traits that were programmed into other modern men. Women are extremely ruthless to socially programmed men. They squash them like bugs. It is almost a game on a playground. This is a biological effort to ensure that you do not procreate and create offspring.

Beating up this woman or avoiding her like the plague is cowardice. Running around and telling men to watch out for these types of women is not about protecting other men its about you. You are afraid. Unfortunately this acts as a magnet.
Whats true for you...is true. So if its true for you to be afraid of these women then I say say good luck to you.

Until you confront whats inside of you, you are a bit degraded because you cant learn and are doing the same thing she is doing. Adopting an unworkable survival solution. The same exact thing she is doing. You look around and count up the "red flags" or whatever you call them in an effort to survive in a way that has no pain. That's incredibly feminine.

Look inside and embrace the suck.

 

[Crosstimbers Okie]

So i spent considerable time around BPDs. I did a 12 week rotation in an outpatient psych clinic when i was in grad school. I didn't know much about BPD at the time. I also have an ex that has classic and severe BPD. There is one thing that i have noticed and it is bugging me. A poster made a thread about it a few years back and the thread didn't get taken seriously. But it should have.

I have noticed that these women only display BPD symptoms to certain people, and only in certain environments. My ex would never rage out against her emotionally abusive mother. She would stfu and take it. She has managed to hold a job for about 2 years now. She only rages out against males in her life and only on certain males. Mainly ex romantic partners. I have seen her act honorably towards other males like bosses, friends etc etc.

The patient in the clinic would be so sweet to me. We got along quite well. She would never rage with me. We would sit and talk ( her thoughts were tangental and flight of ideas at times) and she was decently well behaved. She only displayed cluster B symptoms like gas lighting and rage towards the physician and her husband who would come to visit.

This leads me to believe that these women can control their illness far more than we give them credit for. I think they just act out towards men that allow it. They are not afraid of the consequences with their bf's. With other people they still want their approval so they are on good behavior. I don't think they deserve as much sympathy as we give them. This not so much a mental issue but a behavioral one. I may be wrong but these are just preliminary thoughts.

Absolutely they can control it. And it applies to nearly all if not all mentally ill people. I watched my own sorry, abusive mother control herself when my grandfather gave her 'the look,' or told her to shut-up. That's because he was the only person in the world who she respected. She knew that everyone else she knew would let her get away with it.

I saw it again during 26 years working in federal prisons. All manner of mental and behavioral problem children are perfectly capable of controlling themselves with the proper motivation. No matter how 'crazy' a thug is, it's unlikely that he'll disrespect a member of one of the well organized gangs. They reserve that behavior for people whom they don't fear and respect--for people who they know will let them get away with it.

 

[Pandora]

Absolutely they can control it. And it applies to nearly all if not all mentally ill people. I watched my own sorry, abusive mother control herself when my grandfather gave her 'the look,' or told her to shut-up. That's because he was the only person in the world who she respected. She knew that everyone else she knew would let her get away with it.

I saw it again during 26 years working in federal prisons. All manner of mental and behavioral problem children are perfectly capable of controlling themselves with the proper motivation. No matter how 'crazy' a thug is, it's unlikely that he'll disrespect a member of one of the well organized gangs. They reserve that behavior for people whom they don't fear and respect--for people who they know will let them get away with it.

This is real right here. Yup...I agree. My buddy once said why don't crazy homeless people cross the street into oncoming traffic if they are so crazy? Its because they are crazy but not stupid. They can control themselves. So knowing this information how do we proceed with women?

 

[glass half full]

I was really appalled that she wanted to come back after doing what she said which she said just happened and one thing led to another.. a person says that when they are planning it and they wanted to do it.. then proceeded to ask me if I had any sex with any girls.. get the hell out of here with that..

She's going to blow up when my car is back up shes going to lose major control it feels good not to answer or talk to her it's not like she cares given how she lets her true feelings slip out every once in awhile but then tries to back track on them.

But have an affair of your own and try to convince her, in the same way she did you...that sh!t won't fly with her.