Alton Sterling and Philando Castile, Your Thoughts

[YawataNoKami]

You cannot ever have personal accomplishment if you are raised as a perpetual victim of the evil white devil. That cultural racism is the reason we have so many young racist blacks out there being uninformed racist fools. Fighting with the cops puts them into a situation of their life or yours. That is the issue. When it comes down to it, we all want to go home at night. The contemptuous behavior of black people in everyday situations has more to do with their formative years than what they have experienced to that point. An 18 year old has yet to see the magnitude of the racism he believes exists. How about being angry with the people who started you out with too few choices, i.e. poor, uneducated people having children? How selfish. This exists in the white community as well. And while the choice to have a child in circumstances of poverty may be the decision/non-decision of the two parents, it is a society of "haves" that has enabled this to continue by paying for it. When the black community sees that they have been duped by welfare, that this system is contributing to their plight, perhaps they will make better choices. Stop having children that you can't afford, work towards the educational betterment of the ones that you have and stop looking at white people to save you.

So let"s have an honest conversation about how this thing started in the first place. With more than twice as many whites being killed by cops than blacks, why are there no blacks speaking out against violence against whites, or people as a whole? Yet, every protest that is held for the black community, whites show up to share their support in droves. Even though that statistic combined with the numbers from the black and latino community would definately strengthen the case for excessive force by police, blacks focus only on cop on black violence and forget everyone else.

It is time to call out black racism for what it is. It is no better than the uncle tom era and shouldn"t in any way be supported by those looking to create actual change in this country. How the black community can get behind a movement so incredibly racist blows my mind. They are going to isolate themselves to the point where no one listens and racial tensions bring us to the breaking point.

 

[TheVirtualMind]

Tenacity...

Your concept of how police should handle a potentially armed suspect is what gets cops killed. Yes, I do work in the inner city.

That's a video of an incident that occurred well before Freddie Gray, in an area I work in. The officers were trying to be nice, polite, and be the perfect officers you describe. How well did that turn out?

Also, as far your whole "have some respect for me." That's all well and good, and I do show respect. But when I do not know if you are the suspect or not and whether you have a gun that you may or may not want to kill me with, you better believe that until I know otherwise, you WILL be getting stopped in the manner I said. Now, the example I gave had a pretty detailed description as far as what is usually put out. Now, if I had just said "tall, skinny male," then yeah, that fits a lot of people. But once you narrow it down with clothes...

Like I said, policing isn't sunshine and flowers. There is "nice" was to arrest someone who is resisting. There is no "nice" way to deal with a potentially armed person. There is no "nice" way to deal with a crowd of 20 people surrounding you whIle you investigate (you know...The thing police are paid to do) a crime and have a potential suspect detained until you can verify it.

Please enlighten me on your "better" tatics.

The best "tactics" that can help reduce violent crime and help reduce the amount of violent criminals (the same ones that fight with police) would be:

- petition the courts to ENFORCE VIOLENT FELONIES and the jail time for them

- have neighborhoods help clean up their area. "I ain't see nothing" isn't going to get that guy that just shot your homeboy off the streets before he comes for you...

- have parents either raise their kids, or, for the ones that do, stop telling them "if you are bad, that cops going to lock you up." If you're a little kid and your parents tell you a cop is bad, are you going to respect them or go to them for help?

 

[BlueAlpha1]

You cannot ever have personal accomplishment if you are raised as a perpetual victim of the evil white devil. That cultural racism is the reason we have so many young racist blacks out there being uninformed racist fools. Fighting with the cops puts them into a situation of their life or yours. That is the issue. When it comes down to it, we all want to go home at night. The contemptuous behavior of black people in everyday situations has more to do with their formative years than what they have experienced to that point. An 18 year old has yet to see the magnitude of the racism he believes exists. How about being angry with the people who started you out with too few choices, i.e. poor, uneducated people having children? How selfish. This exists in the white community as well. And while the choice to have a child in circumstances of poverty may be the decision/non-decision of the two parents, it is a society of "haves" that has enabled this to continue by paying for it. When the black community sees that they have been duped by welfare, that this system is contributing to their plight, perhaps they will make better choices. Stop having children that you can't afford, work towards the educational betterment of the ones that you have and stop looking at white people to save you.

So let"s have an honest conversation about how this thing started in the first place. With more than twice as many whites being killed by cops than blacks, why are there no blacks speaking out against violence against whites, or people as a whole? Yet, every protest that is held for the black community, whites show up to share their support in droves. Even though that statistic combined with the numbers from the black and latino community would definately strengthen the case for excessive force by police, blacks focus only on cop on black violence and forget everyone else.

It is time to call out black racism for what it is. It is no better than the uncle tom era and shouldn"t in any way be supported by those looking to create actual change in this country. How the black community can get behind a movement so incredibly racist blows my mind. They are going to isolate themselves to the point where no one listens and racial tensions bring us to the breaking point.

We are at the breaking point now, but the reason we can't address black racism is because liberals and communists have fundamentally hijacked the word and changed it's definition.

Far-left guilty white or Pan-African college professors and teaching young people racism has something to do with "power" and "institutions" with this 'critical race theory' rubbish, when the definition is far more simple. It's an inherent belief in superiority over or hatred of another race. That's it. But when a generation of minorities are brought up to believe they "can't be racist", it's a blank check to be as racist as possible.

Everything we know to be true is now the opposite of what it was once. We don't have a language. Words mean nothing anymore.

Racism = Supremacy "Power"
Rape = Penetration "Touching"
Hero = Firefighter "Caitlyn Jenner"

 

[BlueAlpha1]

Tenacity...

Your concept of how police should handle a potentially armed suspect is what gets cops killed. Yes, I do work in the inner city.

That's a video of an incident that occurred well before Freddie Gray, in an area I work in. The officers were trying to be nice, polite, and be the perfect officers you describe. How well did that turn out?

Also, as far your whole "have some respect for me." That's all well and good, and I do show respect. But when I do not know if you are the suspect or not and whether you have a gun that you may or may not want to kill me with, you better believe that until I know otherwise, you WILL be getting stopped in the manner I said. Now, the example I gave had a pretty detailed description as far as what is usually put out. Now, if I had just said "tall, skinny male," then yeah, that fits a lot of people. But once you narrow it down with clothes...

Like I said, policing isn't sunshine and flowers. There is "nice" was to arrest someone who is resisting. There is no "nice" way to deal with a potentially armed person. There is no "nice" way to deal with a crowd of 20 people surrounding you whIle you investigate (you know...The thing police are paid to do) a crime and have a potential suspect detained until you can verify it.

Please enlighten me on your "better" tatics.

The best "tactics" that can help reduce violent crime and help reduce the amount of violent criminals (the same ones that fight with police) would be:

- petition the courts to ENFORCE VIOLENT FELONIES and the jail time for them

- have neighborhoods help clean up their area. "I ain't see nothing" isn't going to get that guy that just shot your homeboy off the streets before he comes for you...

- have parents either raise their kids, or, for the ones that do, stop telling them "if you are bad, that cops going to lock you up." If you're a little kid and your parents tell you a cop is bad, are you going to respect them or go to them for help?

How do you respond if your suspect pleads the fifth amendment or refuses a search?

Part of the biggest problem with some police is this particularly nasty response to citizens exercising their rights. Check out some of the videos on YouTube of border patrol officers busting windows with children in the car because sovereign citizens resist turning America into East Berlin.

Tenacity is on the money. He's no BLM apologist and has been shunned from his community and called an Uncle Tom, but here's an honest black man looking at this through a NON-racial lens telling you the police are not helping their cause. There are plenty of good police officers out there that don't use these aggressive tactics when they don't have to. I've been stopped by those guys also.

I understand why you fear for your life and that you're just hedging your bets, i.e. you'd rather violate a potentially innocent person's rights than get killed, but just be prepared when I get your name and badge number and sue you. On a side note, our Founding Fathers missed the 28th amendment that mandates an independent third party investigate police misconduct. "Internal affairs" is the joke of the millenium

 

[TheVirtualMind]

How do you respond if your suspect pleads the fifth amendment or refuses a search?

Part of the biggest problem with some police is this particularly nasty response to citizens exercising their rights. Check out some of the videos on YouTube of border patrol officers busting windows with children in the car because sovereign citizens resist turning America into East Berlin.

Tenacity is on the money. He's no BLM apologist and has been shunned from his community and called an Uncle Tom, but here's an honest black man looking at this through a NON-racial lens telling you the police are not helping their cause. There are plenty of good police officers out there that don't use these aggressive tactics when they don't have to. I've been stopped by those guys also.

I understand why you fear for your life and that you're just hedging your bets, i.e. you'd rather violate a potentially innocent person's rights than get killed, but just be prepared when I get your name and badge number and sue you. On a side note, our Founding Fathers missed the 28th amendment that mandates an independent third party investigate police misconduct. "Internal affairs" is the joke of the millenium

See, this is the funny thing. People can exercise their rights all they want. However, most people don't know how to PROPERLY exercise them. You can plead the 5th all you want during an investigation, but you aren't free to go at that time. You are being detained. With the scenario I gave you, I have reasonable articuable suspicision, which allows me to conduct a "Terry Stop" on you, which includes a pat down for weapons. Once I can verify you either are, or aren't, the person, you are free to go. You can have my badge number and name, but the Supreme Court has already denied you. If you are detained, you aren't free to go and you can be asked basic questions (name, date of birth, ect.) If I have probable cause to arrest you and I want to ask you questions related to the arrest, THEN you get Mirandized and can invoke your right to remain silent.

Now, if the only description that came out was "tall, skinny black guy," I don't have the grounds for it, barring you demonstrating some signs (noticeable gun, carrying an item described in the robbery, etc.)

As far as your example for Sovereign Citizens, the videos of the cops breaking the windows is due to failure to produce identification. You get stopped for a traffic violation. Driving is a privledge, not a right that is upheld by the Constitution. As such, the states generally have a law that states you must have your drivers license on you, or at least be valid to drive a vehicle. If I can not verify you; A. Are who you say you are, and B. I can verify you can legally drive, you can and will be arrested. Just because you roll up your window or say "I do not consent to this," during a LAWFUL arrest as the situation I just described, does not magically free you or make the arrest null and void.

I'm all for people exercising their rights...As long as they know their rights and how to excercise them. Want to conduct a peaceful protest? Go ahead, it's legal. But it is illegal to block traffic in the roadway or cause a disturbance by throwing stuff. That is why protests get broken up.

As far as "Internal Affairs" go, people either file complaints because they felt they got wronged, but actually weren't (98% of the time...), or they were wronged and the officer got punished (2%).

I had a coworker get an internal investigation complaint because the last he pulled over was upset. Why? He had her step out of her car (she was suspended for the 5th time...) so she could sign her tickets and let her passenger get in. We had her come back to the rear of of the car and stand on the passenger side, so we wouldn't get creamed in traffic. She also claimed my cowoker "yelled" at her, because traffic was going by and she thought it was rude of him to yell the instructions for paying the ticket or requesting a court date to her...

These are the type of complaints we get....

I did have a few coworkers who have been fired in the past few years due to various stuff, courtesy of Internal Affairs. If they are a "joke," it sure isn't my agency.

 

[BlueAlpha1]

See, this is the funny thing. People can exercise their rights all they want. However, most people don't know how to PROPERLY exercise them. You can plead the 5th all you want during an investigation, but you aren't free to go at that time. You are being detained. With the scenario I gave you, I have reasonable articuable suspicision, which allows me to conduct a "Terry Stop" on you, which includes a pat down for weapons. Once I can verify you either are, or aren't, the person, you are free to go. You can have my badge number and name, but the Supreme Court has already denied you. If you are detained, you aren't free to go and you can be asked basic questions (name, date of birth, ect.) If I have probable cause to arrest you and I want to ask you questions related to the arrest, THEN you get Mirandized and can invoke your right to remain silent.

We're talking about different situations. If you have probable cause that somebody has committed a crime nobody is arguing that, I'm talking about when police are quite obviously overreaching. In the two instances I cited they had zero probable cause to pull me over. I know this because I didn't get a ticket, but the cops were so openly hostile I knew I would have if they had anything. I was stopped for no other reason than it was 2 am on a Friday night and I was well-dressed. If being 27 and on the road late on a weekend is probable cause to stop a car, we truly are living in a police state.

This wasn't "police brutality" per se, but on that night I had probable cause to believe they were running behind their quotas and desperately needed to nail somebody for some tickets and a DUI that night.

As far as your example for Sovereign Citizens, the videos of the cops breaking the windows is due to failure to produce identification. You get stopped for a traffic violation. Driving is a privledge, not a right that is upheld by the Constitution. As such, the states generally have a law that states you must have your drivers license on you, or at least be valid to drive a vehicle. If I can not verify you; A. Are who you say you are, and B. I can verify you can legally drive, you can and will be arrested. Just because you roll up your window or say "I do not consent to this," during a LAWFUL arrest as the situation I just described, does not magically free you or make the arrest null and void.

Again, IF you're conducting a lawful approach. I never refuse my ID during a routine traffic stop. But the example of the sovereign citizens is enlightening. Those guys never produce an ID and they are let go all the time. In many cases the person didn't utter a word and the officer got tired of trying after about a minute.

Why are they there? Why are they stopping people? Driving near the border is not probable cause that somebody might be an illegal alien. That's why they're going free. But there are a few videos online where a cop went berserk and busted the window in a scenario where a person was well within their rights not to speak or consent to a search.

I'm all for people exercising their rights...As long as they know their rights and how to excercise them. Want to conduct a peaceful protest? Go ahead, it's legal. But it is illegal to block traffic in the roadway or cause a disturbance by throwing stuff. That is why protests get broken up.

Of course, that's why BLM is such a vile group. Blocking traffic and intimidating people off public property isn't gonna fly. That is terrorism-lite. And they're homeboy Micah X is terrorism-extra.

As far as "Internal Affairs" go, people either file complaints because they felt they got wronged, but actually weren't (98% of the time...), or they were wronged and the officer got punished (2%).

I had a coworker get an internal investigation complaint because the last he pulled over was upset. Why? He had her step out of her car (she was suspended for the 5th time...) so she could sign her tickets and let her passenger get in. We had her come back to the rear of of the car and stand on the passenger side, so we wouldn't get creamed in traffic. She also claimed my cowoker "yelled" at her, because traffic was going by and she thought it was rude of him to yell the instructions for paying the ticket or requesting a court date to her...

These are the type of complaints we get....

I did have a few coworkers who have been fired in the past few years due to various stuff, courtesy of Internal Affairs. If they are a "joke," it sure isn't my agency.

I didn't say every department was corrupt, but the concept of the police investigating the police is pretty laughable to me. Conflict of interest, much?

Are you against a hypothetical independent group taking the mantel for these cases?

 

[LiveFreeX]

Please enlighten me on your "better" tatics.

 

[Skyline]

We're talking about different situations. If you have probable cause that somebody has committed a crime nobody is arguing that, I'm talking about when police are quite obviously overreaching. In the two instances I cited they had zero probable cause to pull me over. I know this because I didn't get a ticket, but the cops were so openly hostile I knew I would have if they had anything. I was stopped for no other reason than it was 2 am on a Friday night and I was well-dressed. If being 27 and on the road late on a weekend is probable cause to stop a car, we truly are living in a police state.

This wasn't "police brutality" per se, but on that night I had probable cause to believe they were running behind their quotas and desperately needed to nail somebody for some tickets and a DUI that night.



Again, IF you're conducting a lawful approach. I never refuse my ID during a routine traffic stop. But the example of the sovereign citizens is enlightening. Those guys never produce an ID and they are let go all the time. In many cases the person didn't utter a word and the officer got tired of trying after about a minute.

Why are they there? Why are they stopping people? Driving near the border is not probable cause that somebody might be an illegal alien. That's why they're going free. But there are a few videos online where a cop went berserk and busted the window in a scenario where a person was well within their rights not to speak or consent to a search.



Of course, that's why BLM is such a vile group. Blocking traffic and intimidating people off public property isn't gonna fly. That is terrorism-lite. And they're homeboy Micah X is terrorism-extra.



I didn't say every department was corrupt, but the concept of the police investigating the police is pretty laughable to me. Conflict of interest, much?

Are you against a hypothetical independent group taking the mantel for these cases?

Border Patrol and Police officers are two different careers thus they conduct their jobs differently.

What do you mean by 'their quota for the night?' As far as I know, there is no such thing.

 

[BlueAlpha1]

Border Patrol and Police officers are two different careers thus they conduct their jobs differently.

What do you mean by 'their quota for the night?' As far as I know, there is no such thing.

I didn't say quota for the night, as in a nightly quota. But it was very obvious she was desperately trying to nail me on a ticket or take me in. This was a 20 minute interrogation and I hadn't had a drop of alcohol.

 

[Tenacity]

Tenacity...

Your concept of how police should handle a potentially armed suspect is what gets cops killed. Yes, I do work in the inner city.

That's a video of an incident that occurred well before Freddie Gray, in an area I work in. The officers were trying to be nice, polite, and be the perfect officers you describe. How well did that turn out?

What happened leading up to the start of the video? The cops seem to be trying to detain a man that's out of control, then another random citizen runs up and attacks the cops who I guess he felt were over-policing the man in some way? Or maybe the random citizen wasn't "random" but some how related to the man on the ground?

This video does not give any cop license to start over-detaining and over-policing. The job is dangerous and stressful, it's a part of the description.

I appreciate the vast majority of police, you guys keep ME safe and a cop saved my life before. You probably won't find a bigger black man supporter of police in this country than me.

Just like I love my "people" in terms of the black community, I also love the majority of cops. It's why I'm so PASSIONATE when I speak about the dumb shyt on both sides. Black people just call me a coon and certain far-right people just call me another one of those "n-words".....but there are issues on BOTH SIDES. This is not a one-sided issue.

Also, as far your whole "have some respect for me." That's all well and good, and I do show respect. But when I do not know if you are the suspect or not and whether you have a gun that you may or may not want to kill me with, you better believe that until I know otherwise, you WILL be getting stopped in the manner I said.

That's bad policing. For example, Jeronimo Yanez (the officer who pulled over Castile) said he pulled the man over because his nose was big, and it somehow "fit the description" of some other big nosed black man who did a robbery.

Do you know how many big nosed black men there are out there??

Alton Sterling is a messy one, that guy is a CRIMINAL. Plain and simple. I have no damn clue what happened in that situation, but he clearly wasn't a stand-up human being.

Philando Castile on the other hand, was minding his own damn business. He wasn't a criminal, he wasn't doing shyt wrong, he was literally a victim of BAD POLICE tactics, the same police tactics (I'm sorry to say) that you are PROMOTING right now on this forum Virtual.

Now, the example I gave had a pretty detailed description as far as what is usually put out. Now, if I had just said "tall, skinny male," then yeah, that fits a lot of people. But once you narrow it down with clothes...

Well, Castile was pulled over and shot less than 2 minutes from the time Officer Yanez did the radio call, based on nothing but having a big a.ss nose. That's completely fast as hell, which means that Officer rushed to judgment. It's bad policing....bad...bad...bad!

Like I said, policing isn't sunshine and flowers. There is "nice" was to arrest someone who is resisting. There is no "nice" way to deal with a potentially armed person.

Virtual I have a right to bear arms sir. I understand if my nose is big and I look like I robbed the bank up the street, but until you come up to me, investigate, ask questions, and have some sort of lee-way that I am the robber of said bank.....you have NO BUSINESS over-policing me, over-detaining me, telling me to hit the fvcking ground, and immediately SHOOTING because I have a gun on me when I have a LEGAL RIGHT to carry a damn gun.

Do you see my point here?

Please enlighten me on your "better" tatics.

- ASSUME I'm innocent until you have more reasonable cause to think I'm not.

- Have respect for me and speak to me with some respect, not like I'm your child

- Try to de-escalate rather than take it somewhere it doesn't need to go

- Leave your ego at the door and know that you are here to SERVE, not DICTATE

- If you are afraid of the people and community you are policing, find another job

- Use your taser, club, your partner, a wrestling hold, and anything else you can to detain a person that's being unreasonable, OTHER THAN shooting them if the situation does not cause for the person DYING

- If you are racist or hate black people, find another job

- Have a partner or multiple partners with you at all times to help with detaining

The best "tactics" that can help reduce violent crime and help reduce the amount of violent criminals (the same ones that fight with police) would be:

- petition the courts to ENFORCE VIOLENT FELONIES and the jail time for them

They are already doing this?

- have neighborhoods help clean up their area. "I ain't see nothing" isn't going to get that guy that just shot your homeboy off the streets before he comes for you...

100% agree. There's a stupid a.ss no snitching policy in the black community, which like I said is completely out of control in these inner cities with worship of thug culture and other bullshyt. Ray Ray will shoot Pookie, everybody will see it, and attend Pookie's funeral (Ray Ray will even attend and sit in the front row), but nobody will "snitch" to the police on what happened. It's sick...sick...sick.

Like I've said before, I don't see why anybody would want to police these areas. The people are animals and completely out of control. It's very tough to detain and police these people, but you have GOT to do it without shooting them dead unless the situation absolutely calls for it.

 

[Asmodeus]

Black lives matter has the problem that it focuses on police violence as being only a black thing.
It is not... Not nearly... In fact DOUBLE the number of white people have been shot by cops than black people.

Certainly there are more white people, and black people being a lower % of the population are therefore more likely to be shot. However, the flipside is that violent crime rates are higher for black people than white so police engagements are higher for this group.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fresno-police-shooting_us_57873e20e4b03fc3ee4f5806
^Cops killing white people happens too... It is not about race, it is about officers using excessive force and where we should draw the line.

The actual notions that the police shootings of black people are somehow racially motivated do not seem to hold up when you start looking at the statistics.

 

[LiveFreeX]

Anyone BLM caught should immediately be drafted and sent to fight ISIS in the middle east. Then we can truly see how much their black life matters.

 

[TheVirtualMind]

We're talking about different situations. If you have probable cause that somebody has committed a crime nobody is arguing that, I'm talking about when police are quite obviously overreaching. In the two instances I cited they had zero probable cause to pull me over. I know this because I didn't get a ticket, but the cops were so openly hostile I knew I would have if they had anything. I was stopped for no other reason than it was 2 am on a Friday night and I was well-dressed. If being 27 and on the road late on a weekend is probable cause to stop a car, we truly are living in a police state.

This wasn't "police brutality" per se, but on that night I had probable cause to believe they were running behind their quotas and desperately needed to nail somebody for some tickets and a DUI that night.

Without further knowing what was going on, I can't really comment on this. Reason why I can't:

- I don't know what, if anything, may have been going on in the area

- How you acted during the stops, or how you were driving.

You said "they had no probable cause to pull me over. I know this because I didn't get a ticket, but the cops were so openly hostile." Not every stop gets a ticket. Where you at or near a DUI check point and made a turn before it? Where you slowly driving through an area that may have had a few robberies occur recently? Where you distracted by your phone and it caused you to swerve on the road a few times?

I'm not asking them as "I'm 100% them and you must be wrong!" I'm just generally curious as to what was going on prior to your interaction with them.

As a side note, quotas are illegal. If a supervisor even hints at a quota and word gets out, courts have a field day. It was recently a big issue in New York (several times, actually.)

Again, IF you're conducting a lawful approach. I never refuse my ID during a routine traffic stop. But the example of the sovereign citizens is enlightening. Those guys never produce an ID and they are let go all the time. In many cases the person didn't utter a word and the officer got tired of trying after about a minute.

"They are let go all the time." They are? News to me. I know I've seen a video where the officer let the person go because the officer didn't know his laws. This happens at times, when the officer may not know it. Why? Take a dictionary and add 4 good sized encyclopedias to it. That is about the size of all the laws, ordinances, traffic codes, Standard Operating Procedures, and law updates we have to deal with.

Why are they there? Why are they stopping people? Driving near the border is not probable cause that somebody might be an illegal alien. That's why they're going free. But there are a few videos online where a cop went berserk and busted the window in a scenario where a person was well within their rights not to speak or consent to a search.

I can't comment, as I don't know what Border Patrol actually does.

Which videos are you referring to?

Of course, that's why BLM is such a vile group. Blocking traffic and intimidating people off public property isn't gonna fly. That is terrorism-lite. And they're homeboy Micah X is terrorism-extra.

Holy crap, mark this down. I fully agree!

I didn't say every department was corrupt, but the concept of the police investigating the police is pretty laughable to me. Conflict of interest, much?

Not entirely. Know who investigates malpractice claims against doctors? Other doctors. Know what the justification for lethal force is, when it comes to grand jury indictments?

"What would a reasonable officer do under the same circumstances?" Joe Couch Potato, who has not had training and experience, would not be the best person to comment on that incident. I don't tell military members how to do things, I don't tell the cable guy how to fix my line when it goes bad, and I don't tell the plumber how to fix my sink.

Now, if people want to come and take the "use of force" training that several agencies have offered (one in Arizona or New Mexico comes to mind), THEN I could see some benefits to some open dialogue.

Are you against a hypothetical independent group taking the mantel for these cases?

Please clarify. By "independent group," do you mean an "outside agency," like the Texas Rangers do involving situations with officers in Texas, or do you mean a civilian board?

 

[TheVirtualMind]

What happened leading up to the start of the video? The cops seem to be trying to detain a man that's out of control, then another random citizen runs up and attacks the cops who I guess he felt were over-policing the man in some way? Or maybe the random citizen wasn't "random" but some how related to the man on the ground?

Good question. Notice how we don't know what happened before the video started? Also, the police were trying to be so gentle with the subject. Notice what it got them.

This video does not give any cop license to start over-detaining and over-policing. The job is dangerous and stressful, it's a part of the description.

Never said it did. Just showing you what happens on a daily basis, especially when you try to be all lovey dovey and "nice."

I appreciate the vast majority of police, you guys keep ME safe and a cop saved my life before. You probably won't find a bigger black man supporter of police in this country than me.

Awesome.

Just like I love my "people" in terms of the black community, I also love the majority of cops. It's why I'm so PASSIONATE when I speak about the dumb shyt on both sides. Black people just call me a coon and certain far-right people just call me another one of those "n-words".....but there are issues on BOTH SIDES. This is not a one-sided issue.

Very true.

That's bad policing. For example, Jeronimo Yanez (the officer who pulled over Castile) said he pulled the man over because his nose was big, and it somehow "fit the description" of some other big nosed black man who did a robbery.

Do you know how many big nosed black men there are out there??

You're going off a bit here. The example I give had a very good and valid description. I'm not here to play "Guess Who?" If the only description I got was "he had a big nose and was black," then no, I'm not pulling someone up, unless I really had more. That is not "reasonable articulatable suspicion." The example I gave you and the example you are giving are not the same. So to say my example is "bad policing," when you spin it to fit your example, is just plain wrong. Do better and don't try to mix things around to fit your thinking.

Alton Sterling is a messy one, that guy is a CRIMINAL. Plain and simple. I have no damn clue what happened in that situation, but he clearly wasn't a stand-up human being.

Philando Castile on the other hand, was minding his own damn business. He wasn't a criminal, he wasn't doing shyt wrong, he was literally a victim of BAD POLICE tactics, the same police tactics (I'm sorry to say) that you are PROMOTING right now on this forum Virtual.

Sterling was an example of people rushing to judge based off a 15 second video where you can't see anything. As evidence has come out, most of the people screaming their heads off have shut up.

Castile is still out there. Do you know what happened prior to the video? If you were there, or have the crystal ball, please enlighten me. The only thing people can agree on is that he is dead, he had a gun, and had a permit. No one, not even his girlfriend in the vehicle, has been able to 100% state what happened PRIOR to the shooting. There is a HUGE difference between:

- "Officer, I have a permit for a concealed carry and I have it. What do you want me to do?" *Hands on steering wheel/dashboard, clearly visible*

vs.

- "Officer, I have a gun." *Reaching for id in the same area as gun.*

Once more information comes out (that isn't immediately countered by another news agency...Again...Then I will be more than happy to comment. It really is a messy situation.

Well, Castile was pulled over and shot less than 2 minutes from the time Officer Yanez did the radio call, based on nothing but having a big a.ss nose. That's completely fast as hell, which means that Officer rushed to judgment. It's bad policing....bad...bad...bad!

2 minutes is a long *ss "rush to judgement" time. Judgements happen in less than 1 second. Again, like I stated, once more comes out, I will either say "yeah, it was a bad shoot" or "see, here is what NOT to do in his situation..."

Virtual I have a right to bear arms sir. I understand if my nose is big and I look like I robbed the bank up the street, but until you come up to me, investigate, ask questions, and have some sort of lee-way that I am the robber of said bank.....you have NO BUSINESS over-policing me, over-detaining me, telling me to hit the fvcking ground, and immediately SHOOTING because I have a gun on me when I have a LEGAL RIGHT to carry a damn gun.

Do you see my point here?

Your point is convoluted. Yes, you have a right to bear arms (within the guidelines.) However, if I am investigating a robbery and you are a potential suspect, I have a duty to investigate. That does mean detaining you, even if it means telling you to get on the ground because the suspect of the robbery had a gun, especially if you are showing characteristics of an armed person, or the gun is visible.

HOWEVER...

Like I stated before...IF the only thing you have in common with the suspect is skin color and nose size, that is not enough. Why you keep trying to turn my "robbery while wearing the same clothing you have on" example to "hey, my nose is big" is really out there. Stop trying to change my example to meet your narrative.

 

[TheVirtualMind]

- ASSUME I'm innocent until you have more reasonable cause to think I'm not.

- Have respect for me and speak to me with some respect, not like I'm your child

- Try to de-escalate rather than take it somewhere it doesn't need to go

- Leave your ego at the door and know that you are here to SERVE, not DICTATE

- If you are afraid of the people and community you are policing, find another job

- Use your taser, club, your partner, a wrestling hold, and anything else you can to detain a person that's being unreasonable, OTHER THAN shooting them if the situation does not cause for the person DYING

- If you are racist or hate black people, find another job

- Have a partner or multiple partners with you at all times to help with detaining

I'll break this down in order for you:

- I stated what the example of "reasonable articuable suspicion" is and why, at the time of the example I gave (with a good clothing description, not on how your nose looks), gives officers the grounds to do the thing they are paid to do (investigate crimes, catch bad guys, keep people from being victimized by the same suspect in the future by taking them off the street as soon as they can.) If officers just assumed everyone was innocent, there would be no investigations, no arrests, no solved crimes. You are presumed innocent in a court of law until the officer(s) and lawyer(s) present the evidence to the judge.

- The situation entirely depends on how things go.

- I keep seeing people say "de-escalate situations." That does happen. You don't always keep someone down at gun point for days at a time. As things progress, stuff de-escalates. Sometimes quicker than others.

- "Serve the public," which means arrest criminals who are preying on the public, enforce the laws to do such, and protect society from victimization from the suspects. If you just got robbed by someone with a gun and you gave me a description of someone, including clothing, and I stop them down the street, what do you want me to do? Say "hey man, did you just do something?" and when he takes off running, or goes to reach for their gun, what do you want me to do? Ask him "so, how do you want this to go? You're in charge here, buddy."

- Didn't you just say that being a police officer is a dangerous job and you don't know why people do it? Not for glory.

- Tasers don't always work. Mace doesn't always work. Batons don't always work. The officer in New York used a wrestling hold. Look how outraged the public was...Also, not everyone has a partner right there. Even in the city, my partner can be 5 minutes away. If someone is being combative and reaching for a gun, is armed, or possibly armed, do you want me to just stand there and say "hey man, give me a few minutes to get a partner here." If your argument to that is "why not wait for your partner?" then read your comment about how policing is dangerous.

- I can agree with this part.

- Again, having "a partner, or multiple partners when detaining" isn't always an option. Some cities do have the luxury of 2 man cars. That is a small percentage of police forces in the US. Why? Budgeting. My agency doesn't have the man power to do that. If we took what we have now and went to 2 man cars, there would be a whole lot of uncovered area. Same with other agencies, especially the smaller ones that don't have the budget for it.

They are already doing this?

Yes, they are. But until they actually START doing that, it is still going to be an issue. The court system is so backwards...

100% agree. There's a stupid a.ss no snitching policy in the black community, which like I said is completely out of control in these inner cities with worship of thug culture and other bullshyt. Ray Ray will shoot Pookie, everybody will see it, and attend Pookie's funeral (Ray Ray will even attend and sit in the front row), but nobody will "snitch" to the police on what happened. It's sick...sick...sick.

Like I've said before, I don't see why anybody would want to police these areas. The people are animals and completely out of control. It's very tough to detain and police these people, but you have GOT to do it without shooting them dead unless the situation absolutely calls for it.

I agree. Deadly force is the last resort, but due to the national coverage and "glory" the people who are escalating situations is bringing, it is happening more and more. More people feel empowered to challenge police and make attempts on their lives. This happened a lot in the 70's. The only difference is, there is better, or atleast more, media coverage now.

I had to break this up into 2 replies due to the character limit.

 

[BlueAlpha1]

Without further knowing what was going on, I can't really comment on this. Reason why I can't:

- I don't know what, if anything, may have been going on in the area

- How you acted during the stops, or how you were driving.

You said "they had no probable cause to pull me over. I know this because I didn't get a ticket, but the cops were so openly hostile." Not every stop gets a ticket. Where you at or near a DUI check point and made a turn before it? Where you slowly driving through an area that may have had a few robberies occur recently? Where you distracted by your phone and it caused you to swerve on the road a few times?

I'm not asking them as "I'm 100% them and you must be wrong!" I'm just generally curious as to what was going on prior to your interaction with them.

I wasn't doing any of these things, not near a DUI checkpoint, and was not on my phone. She gave some vague reason for stopping me and went straight onto "have you been drinking tonight?" Claimed to smell it on me, bullying me, I'm lying, breathalyzer. 0.00. "Next time it'll be easier if you cooperate. You're free to go."

As openly hostile as she was, I believe with every fiber of my being that if she had anything, I was going to jail or getting a ticket that night. But I gave her nothing, and after a 20 minute ordeal she let me go.

I've been let off tickets when I deserved them by generous cops. This was the opposite, an overzealous cop reaching and making an innocent person's evening difficult.

"They are let go all the time." They are? News to me. I know I've seen a video where the officer let the person go because the officer didn't know his laws. This happens at times, when the officer may not know it. Why? Take a dictionary and add 4 good sized encyclopedias to it. That is about the size of all the laws, ordinances, traffic codes, Standard Operating Procedures, and law updates we have to deal with.

I can't comment, as I don't know what Border Patrol actually does.

Which videos are you referring to?

I'm only talking about the border patrol stops where they "want your papers" so to speak. There are thousands of videos on YouTube of sovereign citizens being very defiant with sargeants and supervisors and going free. One guy drives near the border in Arizona and gets stopped EVERY DAY, and has never once complied.

Not entirely. Know who investigates malpractice claims against doctors? Other doctors. Know what the justification for lethal force is, when it comes to grand jury indictments?

Well, the chokehold was against apartment policy and the coroner ruled it a homicide.

I know what civil rights are, and resisting arrest presents a broad spectrum of risk to the officers. So a 400 lb unarmed man like Garner resisting arrest is not the same as a younger, more fit guy resisting arrest and reaching for a gun.

Both are resisting arrest, but if both suspects are choked to death, the latter I am not indicting the officer if I'm on that grand jury. On the former, I certainly am. Trial doesn't mean conviction, but there was enough there to find out if Pantaleo, who has a history, was guilty of manslaughter.

Please clarify. By "independent group," do you mean an "outside agency," like the Texas Rangers do involving situations with officers in Texas, or do you mean a civilian board?

What about police officers collaborating alongside state lines, or federal marshals investigating local or state police misconduct? Just so that Officers Joe and Bob are not investigating each other when they've had Christmas dinner at each other's homes...

 

[PeasantPlayer]

3 cops killed in Ambush in Baton Rouge

 

[Asmodeus]

3 cops killed in Ambush in Baton Rouge

And this is the ultimate result of all this fanaticism... Five police officers killed in Dallas with a dozen others injured. Now more blood...

And this is not the end of it... Not nearly... The fanaticism has infected the perception of people. There are people who view cops with nothing but hate. This is fanaticism and it is all related to our psychology, we believe in our own perception and our own reality. Thus, we create our own fiction and believe in our stories, true or false.

The BLM movement is becoming more and more radicalized. It tries to place itself above criticism, above blame, above contradiction. In the meantime, it is causing more harm than it is good. Chicago is in chaos, murders are a daily occurrence. Police are afraid to do their job, and as in the instance in Baton Rouge are killed in cold blood just for wearing a uniform.

 

[Skyline]

I'm only talking about the border patrol stops where they "want your papers" so to speak. There are thousands of videos on YouTube of sovereign citizens being very defiant with sargeants and supervisors and going free. One guy drives near the border in Arizona and gets stopped EVERY DAY, and has never once complied.

Border patrol near the Mexican border is very strict because of the drug cartels. One minute a person can be just traveling and then the next year they're now a mule. Would you accept an offer to smuggle a small amount of drugs for more than a couple of thousand dollars? If you say no they might end up robbing you or killing you.

If you have seen the movie "Meet the Millers," which is a comedy, they smuggle drugs across the border and it's the same concept. People you would never expect.

I live in one of the 4 neighboring states of Mexico, and the southern parts are overrun but the Mexican Drug Cartel and various gangs. Anyone who says that our border IS secure needs to visit the southern part of one of those 4 states.

It is not a safe place to be down there.

 

[PeasantPlayer]

And this is the ultimate result of all this fanaticism... Five police officers killed in Dallas with a dozen others injured. Now more blood...

And this is not the end of it... Not nearly... The fanaticism has infected the perception of people. There are people who view cops with nothing but hate. This is fanaticism and it is all related to our psychology, we believe in our own perception and our own reality. Thus, we create our own fiction and believe in our stories, true or false.

The BLM movement is becoming more and more radicalized. It tries to place itself above criticism, above blame, above contradiction. In the meantime, it is causing more harm than it is good. Chicago is in chaos, murders are a daily occurrence. Police are afraid to do their job, and as in the instance in Baton Rouge are killed in cold blood just for wearing a uniform.

Get what your saying, but cops killed 500 people this year alone in America. Was it all justified? nope

As for being a resident of Chicago, the city has a lot of good parts, it has pockets of spots you want to avoid, but it is a beautiful city. The media is at fault for making it seem like Chicago is in Chaos. Is it the worst big city in America? Probably, but this is a classic case of a tale of two cities.

Where was the media in the 80s and 90s when Chicago had 950 homicides a year? Compared to 400-500 it has now on average? Chicago had project sniper wars it was much worse in the 80s and 90s its not even comparable to now.