30 Years Old and Not Clear on The Right Path in Life - Need Feedback

[Commandante]

The Case Against Marriage

 

[Reyaj]

The Case Against Marriage

That article certainly has merit. Really from what I've gathered so far, marriage is beneficial if you want to raise children, other than that for anyone not religious its nothing more than a government formality.

The truth is my experiences coupled with all the readings I've done throughout the year really inhibits me from letting my emotions take over.

 

[squirrels]

As the article says, before contraception, natural expressions of romance ended with children being conceived. So it was normal to marry a woman who you "loved". Even though marriage was an institution designed around child-rearing, when you hooked up with a woman, that's simply "what happened".

Back then, things were a lot simpler, too. Separation among the sexes insured that the men were usually "out" and the women were usually "in". So you could marry a woman and virtually never have to even see her, so long as you provided for her and your kids. But since if you hump a girl enough times without contraception she WILL end up having your children, marriage basically served as a man committing to support a woman's children.

Today, the genders and their roles are so inter-mingled that many things that were clear become clouded.

You know why society continues to push marriage, though? Because a single person can't afford to buy and furnish a 300-500K "McMansion" house by himself.

The "couple" is the new buying unit in the modern social economy. Everything that was previously out of the reach of a single wage-earner is now marketed to the "couple" as a purchasing entity.

That's why a lot of these stupid couples "shack up" together before getting married...they want a house, a car, or some other nonsense and they see other married or shacked-up couples affording those things much more easily.

And that's why it's almost as hard to break off a shack-up as it is a marriage...the notion of "community property".

Hell, it's not even the MARRIAGE part of marriage that's hard to annul, it's the distribution of wealth and responsibility. In that respect, shack-ups ARE de-facto marriages, pretty much.

I don't know why people are too stupid to realize this these days. If I was living on another planet, it'd crack me up.

 

[Reyaj]

As the article says, before contraception, natural expressions of romance ended with children being conceived. So it was normal to marry a woman who you "loved". Even though marriage was an institution designed around child-rearing, when you hooked up with a woman, that's simply "what happened".

Back then, things were a lot simpler, too. Separation among the sexes insured that the men were usually "out" and the women were usually "in". So you could marry a woman and virtually never have to even see her, so long as you provided for her and your kids. But since if you hump a girl enough times without contraception she WILL end up having your children, marriage basically served as a man committing to support a woman's children.

Today, the genders and their roles are so inter-mingled that many things that were clear become clouded.

You know why society continues to push marriage, though? Because a single person can't afford to buy and furnish a 300-500K "McMansion" house by himself.

The "couple" is the new buying unit in the modern social economy. Everything that was previously out of the reach of a single wage-earner is now marketed to the "couple" as a purchasing entity.

That's why a lot of these stupid couples "shack up" together before getting married...they want a house, a car, or some other nonsense and they see other married or shacked-up couples affording those things much more easily.

And that's why it's almost as hard to break off a shack-up as it is a marriage...the notion of "community property".

Hell, it's not even the MARRIAGE part of marriage that's hard to annul, it's the distribution of wealth and responsibility. In that respect, shack-ups ARE de-facto marriages, pretty much.

I don't know why people are too stupid to realize this these days. If I was living on another planet, it'd crack me up.

You are absolutely correct squirrels. Unfortunately societal economics makes this the only plausible financial move for the middle class (which is that majority of the population)

Not to mention you get a big tax break

 

[izza]

Izza I understand. I want to choose to be happy in all scenarios as you are saying. You definitely seem like a true optimist. Were you always like this? Do you have any books or activities you can recommend I do to get into that positive outlook on life mindset?

Hi Jayer,

I took some time to respond - largely out of curiosity about where the thread would move. Anyway - I believe happiness is always available now. Society teaches us that we should choose misery, and people are so seldom conscious these days, myself included, that this works fairly well. I would just say this to you: collect as many tools of happiness as you can. Never stop collecting tools of happiness - breathing exercises or religious beliefs or mantras. Think of each trick as a tool you're adding to your belt. Not every problem in life is a nail - carrying a hammer won't solve all your problems. A true handyman has a toolkit.

You can choose to be happy now with the tools you have now. And also, don't forget to benefit from 10,000 years of human culture and 550 years of the printing press. Most people around us are quite stupid, but there are a lot of highly conscious, fascinating people you can surround yourself with anytime. Books are a wonderful tool - and most happy people I know have a habit of conversing with books as much as with people.

As for people on here - listen to what they say, don't accept advice from anyone because they claim they've been "successful". Read their other posts - are they genuinely happy? Do they see the beauty and magic in every person, object, and moment? Have they forgiven their past hurts? Are women people to them or objects? I'd bet a lot of guys give you advice in a spirit of nastiness because their last date disappointed them, and now they want to feel powerful and successful simply by claiming they are, giving advice on an anonymous forum.

I'm also saying don't rely on any one book or guru or religion but view all of them as tools, and never stop collecting tools of happiness. I suppose if I had to suggest one book, I would say The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. Just don't use anything you try and it doesn't help. He has a lot of helpful concepts, I thought.

And no, of course I haven't always been this way. I would say I was mildly depressed - just a constant mild depression - for about 15 years. Lots of studies show that depression has long-term cycles like that. Of course mild depression is simply considered normal - as there are very few people in the world who have much mental health. Most are quite miserable and stuck in compulsive, repetitive thinking. I was for a long time, and still am shockingly unaware of things around me much of the time.

Buddhism has a lot of happiness-tools that I have really benefited from - as do the Quakers in my experience. Both have resolved a lot of things that caused me to suffer previously.

Izza

 

[Reyaj]

Hi Jayer,

I took some time to respond - largely out of curiosity about where the thread would move. Anyway - I believe happiness is always available now. Society teaches us that we should choose misery, and people are so seldom conscious these days, myself included, that this works fairly well. I would just say this to you: collect as many tools of happiness as you can. Never stop collecting tools of happiness - breathing exercises or religious beliefs or mantras. Think of each trick as a tool you're adding to your belt. Not every problem in life is a nail - carrying a hammer won't solve all your problems. A true handyman has a toolkit.

You can choose to be happy now with the tools you have now. And also, don't forget to benefit from 10,000 years of human culture and 550 years of the printing press. Most people around us are quite stupid, but there are a lot of highly conscious, fascinating people you can surround yourself with anytime. Books are a wonderful tool - and most happy people I know have a habit of conversing with books as much as with people.

As for people on here - listen to what they say, don't accept advice from anyone because they claim they've been "successful". Read their other posts - are they genuinely happy? Do they see the beauty and magic in every person, object, and moment? Have they forgiven their past hurts? Are women people to them or objects? I'd bet a lot of guys give you advice in a spirit of nastiness because their last date disappointed them, and now they want to feel powerful and successful simply by claiming they are, giving advice on an anonymous forum.

I'm also saying don't rely on any one book or guru or religion but view all of them as tools, and never stop collecting tools of happiness. I suppose if I had to suggest one book, I would say The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. Just don't use anything you try and it doesn't help. He has a lot of helpful concepts, I thought.

And no, of course I haven't always been this way. I would say I was mildly depressed - just a constant mild depression - for about 15 years. Lots of studies show that depression has long-term cycles like that. Of course mild depression is simply considered normal - as there are very few people in the world who have much mental health. Most are quite miserable and stuck in compulsive, repetitive thinking. I was for a long time, and still am shockingly unaware of things around me much of the time.

Buddhism has a lot of happiness-tools that I have really benefited from - as do the Quakers in my experience. Both have resolved a lot of things that caused me to suffer previously.

Izza

Use as many tools of happiness as I can find.... sounds logical and progressive. I looked up the book The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle and it seems to have mixed reviews. I'd still be willing to give it a shot though. Would you be willing to review this with me if I start a thread? I did it for the Art of Seduction and it was successful

 

[izza]

Life is infinitely complex so it makes sense to collect as many tools as we can

Sure if you start a thread, I'd be happy to follow with you. And again, even if you end up giving the book mixed reviews focus on what helps and if other parts don't help after having tried them, then ok let them go. I think you do this.

Izza

 

[seagull]

You say that she needs to lose some weight. Well, after marriage she will likely become complacent like most women do and start packing on a few extra kilos. And after you have children, it will be very difficult for her to lose weight. This is a losing battle, especially at her age. If you this is not a major issue for you then fine, but be wary because in a few years time you may find yourself tied down to a blimp.

 

[Reyaj]

You say that she needs to lose some weight. Well, after marriage she will likely become complacent like most women do and start packing on a few extra kilos. And after you have children, it will be very difficult for her to lose weight. This is a losing battle, especially at her age. If you this is not a major issue for you then fine, but be wary because in a few years time you may find yourself tied down to a blimp.

I can't argue with anything you just said. As a matter of fact I'm 90% certain that this will probably happen if we get married and have children.

So is it better to have an overweight woman who cares about her family and kids or a girl with a nice body that care more about herself? I know a lot of you will probably say find a girl with a nice body that has good values but do you know how hard that is?

In other words should I break up with my current girlfriend to find a girl that is better looking and has the same values and things in common with me?

Maybe if I didn't experience 1st hand all the garbage women that are out there I'd see that as a more plausible option...

 

[Reyaj]

My gf is really starting to push this marriage...... I'm so confused... I know I'm not ready... but I don't want to lose her. Girls with her qualities are hard to come by.

That being said I may cheat on her tomorrow night... I'll keep you all posted with another cheat report

 

[squirrels]

My gf is really starting to push this marriage...... I'm so confused... I know I'm not ready... but I don't want to lose her. Girls with her qualities are hard to come by.

That being said I may cheat on her tomorrow night... I'll keep you all posted with another cheat report

If you have your doubts about marriage, don't get married. It's not something where you want to "wing it" and just hope it works.

It's a shame how quickly women want to push marriage...or even commitment. That's one of the reasons I entered this "no-dating" phase. After like, 3 dates and a fvck, they're already starting to "make plans", and I got tired of the crying sessions they had when it became apparent that I wasn't in quite so much of a hurry.

I don't like breaking hearts...and that's one of the reasons I don't date much any more. These women are too fragile.

 

[izza]

My gf is really starting to push this marriage...... I'm so confused... I know I'm not ready... but I don't want to lose her. Girls with her qualities are hard to come by.

You're doing two things here that are common and I just want you to be aware of:

i.) Some unnecessary selfishness
ii.) A scarcity frame

For i.) if she really wants to get married now, if that is really important to her, and you're not ready to marry her, then you *should* lose her. She should go meet someone else who's ready. It's that simple. It sounds like you are leading her on, acting vague, and she is getting more and more angry about it. You are creating conflict here because you are trying to use her and trick her into staying with you even though you don't have what she's looking for. And you know it.

You are having a selfish attitude about this that I promise you is unnecessary. For instance, one person I'm with now is looking for marriage. I was clear from the beginning that I am not. She can leave at any time. I love her immensely and also I know we will not be together forever and that's ok. I'm *helping* her meet other guys, I'm introducing her to other guys, I'm asking all my friends if they know good people.

It sounds like you are not being clear with her that you're not ready now. You have clearly never said to her "if you want to get married now, you need to go meet someone else." It's HER job to find a guy who wants to marry her, not yours. You're allowing her to make HER problem your problem. But there's just one problem: it's not your problem.

ii.) Thinking of dating from a place of scarcity means you will always make decisions that are cowardly and weak, and will please neither of you. There are 3.4 billion women on this earth, millions around you. The scarcity is all in your head - it's imaginary. What you have is a scarcity of hope, a scarcity of perspective, a scarcity of imagination.

You're right that there's only one woman like her in the entire world. And also, there are LOTS of women in the world who can make you feel how she makes you feel.

That being said I may cheat on her tomorrow night... I'll keep you all posted with another cheat report

Cheating is cowardly. Again, I told everyone I'm with now that I will be seeing other people. I tell them all about each other, I introduce them to each other, they will become friends. Cheating is unnecessary.

Izza

 

[Miles28]

Jayer I was in a very similar situation to you about a year back. The girl was great, did everything for me, very smart, well educated, etc. But she started to push for marriage and it gave me the cold sweats. I really hadn't lost the desire to chase other girls.

I would say don't do it man, don't give into the pressure. It was hard after I let go of my ex but I feel better for it now. Women generally are much more keen to get married because they know their clock is ticking and they know that their market value is deteriorating every day over 30. It's not the same for us. I may get married but it will probably be in 4 or 5 years time. I think if you get married to this girl you're never going to be fulfilled.

 

[Reyaj]

Squirrels

I respect you being able to play the field honestly. Just curious but is marriage an option for you if you meet the right person? Or do you just not believe in it period.... If so I'd be curious to hear what qualities you'd be looking for

Izza

I understand where you are coming from. I agree I am being selfish... but I don't see the situation as black and white as you describe. What I'm doing is not intentionally malicious towards her. I know I'm not ready for marriage right now... but I may be in the future. One of my goals in life is to get married and have a family when the time is right of course. Am I 100% sure that I want to marry this girl... NO Am I 100% sure I don't want to marry her, NO as well. So I'm basically just trying to buy time so that when I make the decision it could be one that isn't made out of scarcity, but one that I know I want to do.

Yes cheating is cowardly, or wrong, or Unscrupulous, but this action represents inadequacies/issues I have as a person and is not a discredit to what she brings to my life. As ludicrous as it may sound... I feel like I have to do this in order to find out the truth about myself. I'm not cheating for the traditional reasons most people do. If you really want to know I'll post the reasons I think I do it...

Miles28

I agree with you. I'm not going to do it right now although based on some recent circumstances that have happend I am really at a weak point. Anyway why didn't you end up marrying this girl? Was it just that you weren't ready... or did she lack something you wanted?


Anyway my problems just got a lot more complicated in which I'm going to post about below... I want to thank everyone for the advice they have given me. I am always grateful for that.

 

[Reyaj]

ok everyone so my problems just got immensly worse or just started depending on how you want to look at it. I violated a fundamental role of DJism that I am going to need everyone's help in trying to fix.

I let my girlfriend move in with me!!!

Now please realize I am admitting right now that this is a mistake and I honestly did not want this to happen. I was and currently am totally against this. I read the post on here about it too and it only made me feel that much worse. But anyway let me explain how and why this happend

I am going to be totally honest with everyone here and admit things I didn't want to even admit to myself but they are true. I have grown emotionally dependent on my girlfriend..... I tried my best not to let this happen.. I spun plates, tried to reduce time seeing her. tried to do other things... but ultimately she become such an integrated part of my life that I feel better knowing she is with me then if she wasn't. I came to this conclusion about 2 weeks ago where we had a big fight and practically broke up with each other. Well inside I felt horrible... well we ended up reconciling with each other and I've felt better. Now all that being said she is at least as emotionally dependent on me as I am on her if not more.... Anyway I'll elaborate on that if I have to but let me get to this current dilemma

So my girlfriend lived at home and this past weekend she had an upsetting fight with her family (this happens a lot), she told me she needed to stay at my place. I obviously feel I should be there for her and had no problem with this....... So then she talks to me about moving in together. I immediately and have told her numerous times I'm against this... but as she was visibily upset I told her she could stay with me for as long as she needs to.

Now I know the reasons why it sucks having a girlfriend live with me... but as the famous thread says they are reasons that are all negative for me. So its really hard to use that as a counter-argument against a girlfriend who wants to live with you. I basically just say I don't believe in it before marriage, that i'm tradtional blahb lah blah... But if anyone has any recommended rebuttals please share!

So anyway, she decided that she is going to stay with me until she gets her own place. But yup! of course I see the big picture here.... I know her financials aren't great and I can see it turning into a permament situation as she gets comfortable.

Help!!!!

 

[squirrels]

Squirrels

I respect you being able to play the field honestly. Just curious but is marriage an option for you if you meet the right person? Or do you just not believe in it period.... If so I'd be curious to hear what qualities you'd be looking for

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1684153&postcount=9

ok everyone so my problems just got immensly worse or just started depending on how you want to look at it. I violated a fundamental role of DJism that I am going to need everyone's help in trying to fix.

I let my girlfriend move in with me!!!

Now please realize I am admitting right now that this is a mistake and I honestly did not want this to happen. I was and currently am totally against this. I read the post on here about it too and it only made me feel that much worse. But anyway let me explain how and why this happend

I am going to be totally honest with everyone here and admit things I didn't want to even admit to myself but they are true. I have grown emotionally dependent on my girlfriend..... I tried my best not to let this happen.. I spun plates, tried to reduce time seeing her. tried to do other things... but ultimately she become such an integrated part of my life that I feel better knowing she is with me then if she wasn't. I came to this conclusion about 2 weeks ago where we had a big fight and practically broke up with each other. Well inside I felt horrible... well we ended up reconciling with each other and I've felt better. Now all that being said she is at least as emotionally dependent on me as I am on her if not more.... Anyway I'll elaborate on that if I have to but let me get to this current dilemma

So my girlfriend lived at home and this past weekend she had an upsetting fight with her family (this happens a lot), she told me she needed to stay at my place. I obviously feel I should be there for her and had no problem with this....... So then she talks to me about moving in together. I immediately and have told her numerous times I'm against this... but as she was visibily upset I told her she could stay with me for as long as she needs to.

Now I know the reasons why it sucks having a girlfriend live with me... but as the famous thread says they are reasons that are all negative for me. So its really hard to use that as a counter-argument against a girlfriend who wants to live with you. I basically just say I don't believe in it before marriage, that i'm tradtional blahb lah blah... But if anyone has any recommended rebuttals please share!

So anyway, she decided that she is going to stay with me until she gets her own place. But yup! of course I see the big picture here.... I know her financials aren't great and I can see it turning into a permament situation as she gets comfortable.

Help!!!!

Well...whatever happens from this point on...you asked for it. :nervous:

I don't see how her failure to get along with her parents (a MAJOR red-flag for a committed relationship) obligates you to let her move in with you. Letting her stay with you for a night or two is one thing...but you let her exploit your kindness as a weakness.

Maybe it'll work out for you. I'm not confident based on what I've heard...but then, I'm a pessimist.

 

[Kailex]

This girl is smart.

She knows she didn't have to use YOUR place as a refuge from her problems with family, but you allowed her to do so... she used your emotions as prey and sunk her teeth into you.

First of all, why are you cheating on her? Your talking about potential marriage material and in the same posts, talking about cheating?

The writing's on the wall here, you obviously don't want to marry her, so why are you prolonging the agony?

Because you are used to having her in your life?
Because you are dependent on her?
Because she's a safe choice?
Because you're afraid of hurting her feelings?

But what about you?

You've given us every reason to NOT be with her but you continue to have your cake and eat it too. It CAN'T work that way. Either you're in an LTR and eventually a marriage, or you are spinning a plates while being single. It's very unfair to consider marrying someone and in the same breath saying that you just can't be with her and then posting "She moved in with me, help me to get out of this".

You've had this thread and others for a few weeks. You HAD to see this coming at some point, since she has been pressing the marriage issue for a while... and now, she's playing her last hand... she moved herself into your place.

This is your window of opportunity to either put up or shut up. You said yourself you are not ready... I think it's time you had THAT talk with her. But right now, you are currently wasting BOTH parties' time with this. If you don't want to marry her, then move on. Forget her "qualities". There's millions of women. If you still feel like you want to test the waters, you are entitled to do so... but you are effectively stringing her along while you do so.

It almost seems like you want to convince yourself that you can keep her along while you test the waters at the same time... as if you were a branch swinger yourself. Almost as if you were making sure that there are no better options out there before you finally decide to settle on this one...

And what now... now that she's moved in? How do you go about the cheating? How do you go about the life you were leading?

Everything has finally caught up to you.

I think it's finally time you manned up and made a decision on what you want to do with your life. All I can say is... be selfish and make the best decision for YOURSELF. In the end, it'll benefit the two of you.

Good luck.

 

[Reyaj]

This girl is smart.

She knows she didn't have to use YOUR place as a refuge from her problems with family, but you allowed her to do so... she used your emotions as prey and sunk her teeth into you.

First of all, why are you cheating on her? Your talking about potential marriage material and in the same posts, talking about cheating?

The writing's on the wall here, you obviously don't want to marry her, so why are you prolonging the agony?

Because you are used to having her in your life?
Because you are dependent on her?
Because she's a safe choice?
Because you're afraid of hurting her feelings?

But what about you?

You've given us every reason to NOT be with her but you continue to have your cake and eat it too. It CAN'T work that way. Either you're in an LTR and eventually a marriage, or you are spinning a plates while being single. It's very unfair to consider marrying someone and in the same breath saying that you just can't be with her and then posting "She moved in with me, help me to get out of this".

You've had this thread and others for a few weeks. You HAD to see this coming at some point, since she has been pressing the marriage issue for a while... and now, she's playing her last hand... she moved herself into your place.

This is your window of opportunity to either put up or shut up. You said yourself you are not ready... I think it's time you had THAT talk with her. But right now, you are currently wasting BOTH parties' time with this. If you don't want to marry her, then move on. Forget her "qualities". There's millions of women. If you still feel like you want to test the waters, you are entitled to do so... but you are effectively stringing her along while you do so.

It almost seems like you want to convince yourself that you can keep her along while you test the waters at the same time... as if you were a branch swinger yourself. Almost as if you were making sure that there are no better options out there before you finally decide to settle on this one...

And what now... now that she's moved in? How do you go about the cheating? How do you go about the life you were leading?

Everything has finally caught up to you.

I think it's finally time you manned up and made a decision on what you want to do with your life. All I can say is... be selfish and make the best decision for YOURSELF. In the end, it'll benefit the two of you.

Good luck.

OMG you are absolutely right in everything you just posted. I've never read an entire post that more accurarely defined what's going on here. Thank you.....

Because you are used to having her in your life?
Because you are dependent on her?
Because she's a safe choice?
Because you're afraid of hurting her feelings?

Absolutely all true and probably have equal weight.

I think the root of my dilemma is I simply don't know what I want... or it keeps flucuating... Sometimes I feel so content and warm and other times I want to go out there and bang more girls for the sheer sport of it.... Its like having mood swings I guess.

Although there's a lot of factors here's what it comes down to for me in my decision.

I know I want to get married one day and have a family... if I break up with this girl what's to say I won't do it with the next girl? I don't want to become one of those people that never settles down and then looks back at the missed opportunities. I already had a girlfriend before this 1 that I got bored with and we fought a lot.... I mean how will I know if its right? Do you really have a no doubt feeling when you meet the right girl or is there always doubt and you have to make the best analytical choice???

Aside from maybe a girl who is better looking I can't really figure out any aditional qualities I would want to seek in a new girlfriend that my current one doesn't have.

I mean we know what happens to people that always think the grass is greener on the other side. Isn't the key to being content to be grateful and appreciative of the things you already have? I mean this in all aspect of one's life...

 

[Reyaj]

Yes I do have to make a decision soon... this does put a big contraint on my cheating....

 

[Miles28]

Jayer,

Kailex as always gives great advice. Listen to him.

The girl I was with was great but I, like you, knew that I wasn't ready. I tried to convince myself, like you, that it's stupid thinking the grass is always greener, we should be grateful with what we have, etc. I was kidding myself and you are too. I don't think you'll ever be content if you marry this girl. There are MANY girls out there who will be there for you, stand by you, etc. It's rare to find good girls but still you will find one later on if that's what you want.

The reason I can talk with such confidence about what you should do is because reading your posts is like reading posts I was making when I was trying to make a decision about whether to break up with my girlfriend or not. I'm single now and, although I'm encountering my fair share of psychos, generally I'm having a ball. It will take a while to adjust to being single and there will be times of loneliness when you will want to get back together with your ex (it's so comforting after all), but trust me, once you get over that tough period you'll realise you made the right decision.

Anyway that's just what I think. Seriously if you break up with this girl and it was the wrong decision then you can just find another girl (by the sounds of it you're not exactly head over heels about this girl and the qualities that you do ascribe to her can be found in many girls). If you get married and it's the wrong decision then the consequences will be much more serious. Also make sure whatever you do you don't end up getting her pregnant. She sounds like she knows what she wants and she will probably do what she can to get it.

M