Why I am leaving this forum FOREVER, and the ending results with HBOreo...

When i got to this site years ago, I was a wreck...i had the typical "one-itis" heartbreak case, my confidence hit an all-time low, and EVERYTHING about women confused me. i spent the next few years studying the DJ Bible (even got a couple of articles in it, he he), helping others and helping myself. I realized something the past few days...the site has changed...or maybe i have. I had it in my head from this site that the MAN was to rarely reveal his feelings...he was the one to be in control...and if a girl "disrespected" him...he was to "next" her...he was to move fast to get the girl he wanted and if she didn't respond, move onto the "next".

This site used to be a "relationship" help board, and VERY rarely were there Lay Reports, or people talking about how awesome it was that they had a ONS. Now it is quite common.
I also feel there are a lot of negative attitudes...preaching that WE are the ones to be on the pedastal...we are the king...we are the ones to be on top...what happened to being equals with the person you are with?

My relationship with HBOreo has been a mess...

I was sitting here "playing" the DJ game with her. She's a model...so the attitutude here is:

Attention Wh0re...needy...needs great sex to be happy...always flirting with guys, so be different otherewise she'll walk...

With HBOreo, it couldn't be further from the truth....

I found out on the weekend that things with HBOreo were completely over...shortly after the last time we slept together...she got involved with someone else...

Why you may ask?

Sex was great...were were attracted to each other, we loved each other's company, we laughed...but I never told her how I felt about her...

Turns out HBOreo had always wanted more than a “lover” relationship with me…she wanted me to be her BF...hell I WANTED to be her BF.

She had so much going on in her life when we met, that she had no choice but to bail on our dates, and couldn't call me. It pissed me off. So…I backed off. Hell, afterall, no respect right? NEXT!!!

Wrong...

When her and I met, and things started going on with us, all the other “guys” in her life who were after her number…all that baggage she was carrying…she got rid of when things started happening between us. She had a freind that was always in the picture, and when i listened to comments on this board on the situation, "next", "Low IL", "doesn't care", "no respect"...I backed away out of frustration. I mean afterall...if she doesn't call me...doesn't make a date...it means she's not interested right....

Wrong...

I got to the point where i was tired of her asking me out and bailing, so i ended up saying, "okay...call me...", not really believing she would. She never did. "Well if she can’t call me, then obviously she doesn’t like me”…in fact…she was thinking the same thing about me.

There was mis-communication…frustration on both our parts, yet neither one of us confronted the issue. She was going through so much in her life when I met her, and I felt that if I did that, I would have pushed her away…the truth is…NOT telling her how I was feeling is what caused it.

HBOreo is NOT the typical “model”, as I stereotyped along with many other people on this board...she is human. She is a “relationship” girl. She is into commitment, and falling in love…My insecurities, anger, frustration, and the fact that I never told her how I TRULY felt about her is what pushed her away.

I found out all this info this week. After she told me she started seeing someone beause she only thought i wanted to be her lover, not her BF... she still wanted to remain friends (go figure). I pretty much told her that there was NO chance for that, and to only call me if she wanted something more than friends...otherwise don't bother.

But deep down, that wasn't how i felt...that was something that had been programmed in me for the last few years.

So…I thought about it...for 5 hours...is my frustration, pain, anger really going to dominate? How do I REALLY feel about her? There was no backstabbing...no cheating...we just both moved on out of frustration, not knowing what the other person wanted.

I arranged to met her, and I put my heart on the line when I saw her…afterall, I had nothing to lose.

I told her how I do feel about her…I told her how everything pissed me off…how frustrated I was/am…and also how much i care about her...from the 2 hours we spoke...

“I could never be your boyfriend anyway, unless I knew I could be a friend with you first. We jumped from 2 people who like each other, who have a great connection, and are attracted to each other…right to sex…we never got the chance to know each other…maybe it was just bad timing"... If we end up being MORE than friends, awesome…if not…then I at least I get myself a good friend out of it. We both know we were very attracted to each other from the beginning…we both wanted the same thing…we just couldn’t figure it out…bad timing I guess…

I really put my heart on the line when we spoke…and I didn’t care…it wasn’t an AFC, “oh I like you PLEEEEEAAASE go out with me…after all we are in love!!”…nah…it was me just telling her how I truly do feel about her. I think I said something lame like, “if someday you find yourself single…and I’m available…just remember that there’s a guy in your life who cares about you and would love to get to know you.”

It was the truth…and I don’t care how it sounds…

Yeah, there is a LOT of shyt I am still EXTREMELY mad at her for…I feel fuct over…there are times when I hate her…and normally I would have fuct off completely…no communication…no friendship…nothing…but something…”something” is telling me to not push her away right now. It’s not this need of, “trying to get something I can’t have”, or me trying to remain in her life to “break them up”…I can’t explain it. Her and I did have an amazing connection…we are totally attracted to each other, and we clicked form day one…the timing just REALLY sucked, and the mis-communication on both out parts is what led to the result I am now looking at.

Anyone who reads or looks at this story could say “one-itis”, or she’s a ***** and you are wasting your time…

Maybe…

But something is telling me to risk that right now…yes, I know she had an argument with him, to the point where she felt they were going to end it…and maybe a bit of me is saying, “hang in there” because of that.

All that stuff on ASF, and recently more on sosuave is “How to be a Player”…”how to get laid”…”speed seduction”…"how to be a man", "rarely reveal feelings"...that is what i have been valuing for the past 3 years...what would have worked on her is revealing how I truly felt about her instead of not telling her. I guess I was trying to be a “MAN”…afterall…we are supposed to be the strong ones. I’m not saying revealing myself to her would bring the situation a different result…but it would have been ME, instead of me acting how I “think” I should be…

She easily could have told me what was on her mind the whole time, so right now, we are both at fault...

She in-fact was NEVER with this guy until after the last time we slept with each other. She wasn’t with both of us at the same time…and she moved on, because I moved on…we just never told each other what we were feeling…or what we both wanted…that was the fuk up.

How she wants to be friends I left up to her…no, I’m not going to call her…I’m not going to ask her out. She is the one who is going to have to determine where we stand. And I feel great about the decision. In any other situation I would have walked. Right now I can ONLY be her friend, because that is all she can give me.

I need to change my view on relationships…maybe this is a stepping stone…maybe she’s thinking about what I said and realizing she does want something more…maybe she is thinking about what I said and realizing she doesn’t want me in her life.

It doesn’t matter.

I told her a LOT of feelings…I told her how I DO feel about her…I think walking away now, would only show her it was bullshyt…

This weekend brought a lot of things out in me…and helped me realize a lot of faults I have. I’m on a "new" journey of “self-discovery” or something. I called up a friend who I haven’t spoken to in 2 years because of an argument we had…and I’m looking at relationships differently. I’ve always been in a rush to “get the girl” I want, and YEAH, SS DOES WORK!!! but it doesn't get you a relationship…now it’s time to set in a solid foundation. It’s time to realize that relationships aren’t based on “speed seduction”, it’s based on two people establishing something great, putting in some groundwork…and seeing what happens.

I’ll be leaving both ASF and sosuave because I realized I got what I needed from them. the confidence in myself, the attitude, knowing what women find attractive.

I think if anything, this situation has made me realize just how important people I care about matter to me in my life, and maybe because of views expressed on these websites, I’ve been too eager to push people away, as opposed really getting involved with someone…emotionally, intellectually, and physically.

That's where I am right now. This is a great website, and it has helped me a lot...but I want to move on from it...i feel I've grown from it...and now have grown out of it.

I figure I’ll give the friendship with HBOreo a few months…if it hasn’t grown, then it probably never will. I’m just willing to take the risk and listen to my heart, then listen to the part of me that lives a life of “nexting” in order to feel safe.

c-ya!

mike

quitters never win and winners never quit!

Um, the information on these types of sites are for people who need help in getting females to be interested them and getting to the point where they can **** them. Not for people such as yourself who are already ****ing her. If you actually wanted to get into a relationship with her then you should have done so. Sounds to me as though you took the information from this site too far and didnt know when and when not to use it. You need to also use common sense, the DJ bible will only do so much. Good luck.

Tantric,

The idea with these rules is learning a code to follow and knowing when to break the rules. You should know that after a while you can break teh rules of playing hard to get when the girls want you and show some emotion, you were clearly at that stage but didn't seem ready to start making your own rules. This site is about helping people get off their asses, but you need to take that final step to get on your feet. The rules may have hurt you, but you should know when to break the rules and that they are not golden.

this is the biggest BS i've ever read.

You fvcked your own sh!t up and you want to blame this site and those that gave you advise (me?).

You salted your own game bro.

NO ONE told you to be emotionless or to be quiet to what you wanted.

(though overall this girl is no keeper, i'd be willing to bank on that)

If this site does nothing it should help you on how to shape your instinct as to how people act and then it becomes your job to trust that instinct.

to be honest there are probably 5 guys on this whole board whose advice i would trust.

Two of them posted consistently on your previous threads but at the end of the day you have to make your own best judgement.

If you only had this girl over to your/her house to fvck, what is she supposed to think???

But c'mon: THE GIRL HAS GOT ISSUES

and the only reason that you stuck it out with this girl long enough is b/c you did not have any other worthwhile options.

IF she wanted to be YOUR girlfriend so BADLY, why couldn't she have TALKED about it with you instead of just ASSUMING what you wanted??

sounds like an excuse that you bought and accepted.

maybe, a break will help you to stop trying to be so "textbook"

your "ways" of trying to gain control are stupid and don't really add up.

I'm going to say this in CAPS:

THERE IS NO WAY YOU WILL BE HAPPY IF YOU ARE WORRYING ABOUT CONTROLING THE PERSON IN THE RELATIONSHIP!!!

all this control crap that was so highly "needed" in a relationship was for guys that would become tools when they started having feelings for the girl. not everyone is like that.

I’ll be leaving both ASF and sosuave because I realized I got what I needed from them. the confidence in myself, the attitude, ...

Click to expand...

Thats BS. your attitude is a front, and your confidence is not really what you think that it is. It can be very hard for someone to admit that to themselves becuase then they have to get real and deal with things that are not easy.

where does it say in the DJ Bible never to reveal emotion?

Obviously you have failed one of the most important misunderstood readings in the bible.

From what I gather, the Bible says NOT TO SHOW EMOTION too early or unilaterally.

HBOreo sounded like she was trying to show you affection and share emotions with you, and instead of reciprocating, you misunderstood the readings and remained a robot

When a woman shows you high buying interest (i.e. cuddling, showing she cares, telling you she likes you, ITS OK to reciprocate!!!) how do you expect to score a loving girlfriend if you cant give back? How long were you going to play the "emotionless guy" routine?

you may have graduated the "attracting" phase of the DJ Bible, but you failed at the "Maintaining" part.

In your situation, wearing your heart on your sleeve and pouring out all your emotions to her will most likely work against you because you have become a "liar"and coward in her eyes, you basically said
"I had emotions for you all along! but I didnt want to let it show because I was too proud and scared and now that its too late, I want you to know the truth!"

no diss on you man or to any other DJ's, but at least you have learned and taught other DJs an important lesson here, ITS OK, AND GOOD to show a girl you like her, once you got her

I agree with all of you...

I am not dissing this site. i;ve been her for 3 years and helped me a LOT...

This wasn't me saying, "I'm leaving because i think everything here is wrong"....it was me saying, i realized I WAS WRONG...

i had certain beliefs in my personal life that affected what i thought and understood what being a DJ was all about.

HBOreo never told me anything...so there was nothing to reciprocate by the way...

My problem wasn't "getting" the girl...hell I've had so many FB relationships, ONS, etc. i could write a book on it...it was getting beyond that and into the relationship.

Yes, I took things maybe too literally...I caused my own demise.

This wasn't a "good riddance" post...it was a, "i just realized what my problem is" post...i'm leaving to get my own shyt sorted out.

"This site is about helping people get off their asses, but you need to take that final step to get on your feet. The rules may have hurt you, but you should know when to break the rules and that they are not golden."

Agreed.

Man, Im kinda getting lost exactly what you may have gone wrong?

I take it you believe you lost the girl, because you werent showing her any "emotional" signs

I mean really, when you had sex, did you not hold hands, cuddle?

when you were outside with her, did you not get behind her and put your arms behind her?

when there was a special occassion, like valentines, bday, sweetest day, did you not send some kind of card?

Did you not ever call her on the phone, just to see how she is, without something involving sex?

Did you Never sit and watch a movie together?

These are all ACTION routines MEN can do to attract and KEEP women, without getting all verbal mishy moshy

This stuff is like Emotional BAIT, things you can do to keep her begging for more

I think you may have dropped her IL in one way or another, maybe its because you showed no emotion, maybe its something else, and you have no answers , so you try to make sense of it all by blaming a lack of showing AFC emotions

I have dated many QUALITY women, that I kept verbal emotional talk to myself until 4-5 months into the relationship

But at the same time, I showed interest and emotion by doing those ACTION things I mentioned above, and these women I dated for 3-4 years each

Wow, show no emotions ? Damn, I didn't read that part I think ... Imo if you're making sensual love she should understand that you care for/love her no ? They don't say to be a king and leave the *****es below you. They say you are a king, and it's up to you to select your queen, not your servant. So very true. I never disrespect my girl, but that doesn't mean I don't consider myself a good catch for her And one-itis .. I think you're understanding it wrong. Or maybe I am, but I don't care then. If by one-itis you mean devoting yourself to one girl, and not sleeping with others, then you're just not getting it. For me one-itis means you will do anything for the chiq, put your feelings/self-respect/values and give them all up just to please, to have this one girl like you.

Wow, Stunned, I am. Let me just type this one thing.

LITERACY IS A PREREQUISITE!

That little caveat was not aimed at Tantric, but SOME of you other guys. I recall very clearly reading something about never letting a girl know how you feel about her unless she lets you know first. So, this fellow, is trusting this site, and lets one get by him.

Let me say this for everyone, in case it isn't intuitively clear.
EVERY WOMAN AND MAN is different. Each relationship requires its own set of rules. This "model" may not fit the stereo-typical model of models. As DJ's, we can't just arbitrarily lump women into a category of X and/or Y. (not saying you guys did)

We must recognize that each person is different!
Consider the musician that plays in the clubs.

He is an improvisational musician. He can play sheet music, but he doesn't have to be restricted to a script. He can adlib. The difference is the script. A DJ doesn't require a script or a formula for success. He only has himself. Each of you, look to yourselves for the inspiration you require, if any.

There are though alot of malpractice on these forums... Girl I met some weeks ago showed all signs of major major IL (Which she has ) but stuff like when I called her to ask her out etc she flaked abit and said maybe later, stuff like that. Now most people would go "NEXT NEXT NEXT NEXT" she has no IL blahblahblah. But I'm not like other people, when I want something I'm going to have that something.

Sooo I just said to her on MSN a week after I tried to take her out that yo I'm coming over to you to watch a movie and sent her the hot chick... Turns out the reasons she had flaked on me was because she was afraid of seeing me because she liked me too much and was afraid of getting hurt cause she had recently come out of a relationship where the BF cheated... (This was at the end when we met actually I think)... I've seen her several times now and she's great. This girl is very afraid and very fragile, this is the kind of girl YOU NEED to reassure, you need to tell her that you think she is a wonderful girl. You should tell ALL girls you are seeing this but not in EXCESS which is important.... But girls like this, fragile, afraid of getting hurt, somewhat introvert, these kind of girls need that reassurance or they may drift away from you, if they get it they'll open up more and more to you and get completely hooked.


Another nono in regards to this site are SMS.... Some weeks ago me and some friends where out to dinner and one of my friends had brought a girl she knew. I didn't talk to that girl, the girl didn't even signal any interest until I chatted some with her and got her laughing. At the end of the evening she tried to drown me in snow so I just held her arms and noticed a spark in her eyes. I asked her FRIEND for the number and sent her an SMS saying no more than "You know drowning me in snow isn't very nice, you have to make it up to me".... 5 SMS back and forth later she invited me back to her place for homecooked dinner and a movie

See.... I didn't next when most people would have, I didn't phone I just sent some SMS. Do I need to pull back the thread where I tell of the girl I sent one SMS 3 or 4 months after I met her once that invited me the day after to her place for wine, candles and a massage?

I pulled no techniques, no systems, no SS, no NLP no nothing. I pulled what you called great looks and natural charm. I was myself, I was confident, high self-esteem, I was my natural funny. THIS is what people need to work on.

They need to work on (especially the people in their 18-30ish where girls are very superficial at first).

a) Their looks (Wardrobe, hair, face (cleansing, pores etc), body) YES IT'S ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IN GETTING A GIRL
b) Confidence, doh. If you are confident then you are a man...
c) Self-esteem/Self-image... People need to understand they are unique individuals with alot to offer...


The day you yourself realize what a great person you are, the day you are confident in being yourself and being with any other person, talking with anyone and the day that you fvcking realize your wardrobe is outdated that day you will reach a level of game you can be proud of and also a selfindividual you can be proud of.

If you've gained enough experience here that you can pull off the blinders and see things as they really are, then you're probably better off not here.

Tehre are a lot of people on here (and I'm guilty of this too) that read the DJ Bible and just read quotes from it as they SEEM to apply....try to break it down to a series of rules instead of taking the general ideas and running with them. Sometimes it's OK to steal, it's OK to kill, and it's OK to break the rules of the DJ Bible.

Mystery is one thing when you're still attracting the girl, but even AT talks about a need for "paced disclosure." The idea is you don't dump your feelings too soon, but if you're looking for an LTR, you HAVE to get up off them sooner or later. The speed seduction and "DJ techniques" will get you in the door, but they won't get you to the altar, no. Sooner or later, if you want to have something exclusive and special with someone, you have to open up.

A lot of people (AFCs I guess you'd call them) just read that and think, "That's what I'M doing wrong...saying too much too soon!" and so they correct that and start getting second looks from all the ladies and being more successful on dates, so they tell everyone they know, "Don't tell them ANYTHING! Keep them guessing! Be mysterious! If you say anything about how you feel, you're a punk AFC!" Then as the bliss of banging women starts to taper away, they start wondering why they have to keep going out and looking for more girls...why they can't hold one down.

Don't blame it on this site...people offer good advice and bad advice, but YOU are the one who chooses what to take and what to leave. You learned from this experience, and it was a pretty heavy price you paid for that lesson, but you learned it, and it will be unbelievably helpful in the future. (Yes, there is life after love)

Good luck, man. For good or for bad, even if you leave this site, don't stop experiencing.

I've never been on this site to learn really just to try to help and read about other peoples success-stories! Sometimes there is an interesting thing to pickup and yes the forum and bible does have alot of good material BUT some individuals on this board is overanalyzing EVERYTHING and nexting stuff way way way too fast.

I don't get it. In your first post, you say you lost her because you were afraid to just be yourself and let her know that you wanted a real relationship with her, but in your last post it looks like you had no chance for anything more than sex because she engineered it that way - flaking out, never being available, etc.

So how is it all your fault? You can't show a woman that you want to be with her if she never spends time with you outside the bedroom.

I can only go by what you've posted, but the reality looks more like her not wanting to settle into a relationship with you, regardless of whether or not you acted right or wrong.

Summary: Her interest level in you=LOW, right from the start.

You are very confused.

From your first post to your last, you have come almost full circle.

First, you blame yourself for being emotionless and then you say she was never available and kept brushing you off.

From your first post, I'd figured you'd been with the girl for quite some time.

But you've only been with her for 4 months and you say that you really didn't start anything with her until the end of November.

ANd you never really had a relationship. It seems that she might have thought you were hot and wanted to bang you.

SHe got the sex and maybe got some more sex, but then she became bored with you.

To me, it seems, she never really wanted to be with you, she just wanted a nice little fling.

And it seems to me that you haven't learned much at all except for the fact that your stressing over some girl you barely even went out with.

Move on and forget her.

My son,

It is foolish to use words such as NEVER or ALWAYS. Often times these words will leave you with your foot firmly lodged in your mouth.

Instead of scorning this place and throwing a tantrum about how warped it is, why not contribute something useful?

Tantrics Way

This place sucks..you guys gave me sh!t advice and now I am leaving you all FOREVER!

The Higher Way

You know, I think I learned a valuable lesson that deviates from what I believe is the principle message of this site... It seems that aloofness of a DJ can help or hurt you depending on where you are in the game. Here are some mistakes I made...I hope you learn from them.. I also think I need to spend some time away from this site...etc etc

One way places the blame and responsibility on others, the other is the MANs way of accepting responsibility for his own decisions.

Dwell on this my child.

Holy Sh*t...

Just because you failed with one chick your gonna put all the aspects of your game that you've learned here into a bucket and piss in it...that's f*cked up, for real...

IT'S ONE CHICK...ONE...GET OVER IT...

-Peace

Tantric, no offense but this girl is full of ****. If you believe ANYTHING what she said to you about YOU being the one who she thought didnt want to be in a relationship, youre crazy. What she told you was ******** and excuses for her simply not wanting to be in a relationship with you, not her thinking you didnt want to be with her.

The part I dont understand is how most of the guys responding to this cant see right through what this girl is doing. Shes breaking it off with him because of low IL, and she is doing it in a way that makes her come out looking like the one who was abused, makes her come off looking like the better person, and relieves her guilt for all of this. Shes not doing this because she wanted a relationship with him-gimme a break. If she had, she would have made it clear, trust me. From what I read you may have played somewhat hard to get, but you certainly wrent the terminator-devoid of emotion or romantic interest.

You yourself have said that you called her many times with no response, that she bailed on numerous dates and get togethers. Ok? Your not the one who did those things, she was. Actions speak louder than words my friend. If she really did want a ltr with you, she would have made her feelings known more clearly, and she certainly would have wanted to go on dates with you outside of your home, and returned phone calls on a consistent basis, or even just called you up for no reason. SHe did none of those things. The writing on the wall couldnt be any clearer. And now, instead of you being a true Dj and telling this girl youre done playing these games and being used, you have given in to her and told her "ok, Ill be your friend and wait for you, I'll sit here and wank off to you while your out doing other guys, and if at some point you want to be a couple, I'll be here waiting". Dude, it doenst get any worse than that--you are afc.

Basically, you are sooooooo hung up on this girl, that you are now willing to believe whatever she says, be disrespected by her numerous times, go along with whatever she wants, and then blame yourself and this site for her pisspoor actions towards you. Weve all been with girls that we got really hung up on, girls that could say the sky was red and we WANTEd to believe her, just because she was her. But deep down in your soul you cant honestly believe what she tells you. Trust me, this girl had low IL in you from the start, but apparently had low enough self esteem to where she would sleep with you just to fullfill her fragile ego for the day. Dont fall for the hype and lies, shes BSing you, and you need to be the better person and move on, because mark my words, she will NEVER be your girl.

Originally posted by Jay Fiedler
Tantric, no offense but this girl is full of ****. If you believe ANYTHING what she said to you about YOU being the one who she thought didnt want to be in a relationship, youre crazy. What she told you was ******** and excuses for her simply not wanting to be in a relationship with you, not her thinking you didnt want to be with her.

The part I dont understand is how most of the guys responding to this cant see right through what this girl is doing. Shes breaking it off with him because of low IL, and she is doing it in a way that makes her come out looking like the one who was abused, makes her come off looking like the better person, and relieves her guilt for all of this. Shes not doing this because she wanted a relationship with him-gimme a break. If she had, she would have made it clear, trust me. From what I read you may have played somewhat hard to get, but you certainly wrent the terminator-devoid of emotion or romantic interest.

Click to expand...

You cannot say either or the other on this one, only the girl knows. Your approach to this is overly pessimistic, his approach is overly optimistic. How you interpret things does not necessarily reveal the truth... People here are way to pessimistic in my opinion.