27 and nothing

[chancer357]

Is anyone else 27 or older and just completely stuck? I've never been able to talk to girls. I'm not good looking, so they don't talk to me.

What do you do if you are just not attractive and shy? It doesn't matter how much I try to appear more attractive, or think posatively. I just *CAN'T* talk to people. Only people I've known for a long time am I comfortable with.

Don't tell me just do it. I would have "just done" it year ago if thats all it took.

Don't tell me to just work on myself. I have a good job and money is not a problem. I have a nice car, etc.

As a person, I'm basically a failure. I don't enjoy anything anymore. I go to work, I go home. Sometimes I will hang out with people I know, but I mostly just feel bad when I see them. I see how they have no trouble meeting people, and having fun and doing thing - I wouldn't love to be able to have even a fraction of what they have when it comes to just living life.

What do you do? What do you tell a doctor? I had a physical, but I was to embarrsed to even try to explain my depression. I'm just too ashamed and embarrsed of my myself to do anything. My whole life is this way, its always been this way.

Alot of the reason I feel this way, and the reason it just worsens as time goes on is that I can't interact with girls at all. I've never been treated in the same way that I see them treat other guys. I've never had a girl interested in me. I'm a lesser human because of this, and just feeds a viscous cycle. If a girl ever even smiled at me in passing it would be a first.

I can talk to guys, and have guy friends - but with the exception of my two oldest friends from childhood who I never see anymore, I don't have much in common. They mainly want to go out and pick up girls in bars and such. So I can't really hang out with them.

Most of you, probably all of you, have no idea what this is like. Do any of you know anyone who has ever recovered from this? I just don't see the point. I'm just going to go to work and come home to be myself. Not able to sleep when I get there, and tired all day at work becase I can't sleep at night. Just doing nothing, waiting to go to work, so I can wait to go home. Over and over. Too afraid and ashamed to do anything else. Why bother.

[SikWitIt]

I had this problem when i was about 13 and it got worse as i got older i wasn't really, unattractive just shy and not comfortable around strangers. Didnt talk much to anyone stayed in the back of class tryin to look cool kinda a loner with just a couple of close friends from elementry school, At the time i didnt know but i had Social Anxiety Disorder

So i went through school as the quiet guy having sum girls intrested in me but not taking it anywher cause i was so shy and un sure of myself i got really depressed, i dont know if you know what its like to be all alone all the time with no one to talk to but yourself.

And no one really caring about your accomplishments and failures
but that was my life, I wanted to commit suicide like so many dam times but never had the balls. I have 4 older sisters from a previous marrige,but they had moved out so it was just me and my Mom a single parent since i had a dead beat dad im not blamming it on her cause she worked hard to take care of me.

So i was all alone in my head i closed myself up didnt even feel comfortable around anyone even my own familly i preffered being alone all the time, stayed at home went to school but after awhile you just get fed up with it and wanna change.

So i took matters into my own hands i knew i had Social Anxiety disorder around 16 but i didnt wanna take medication for it,so i started being more open about stuff i had on my mind not letting everybody walk all over me i took it slow, Started being a little more social little by little trying to meet knew people got more active and confident.

And eventually those feelings i got from SAD went away i didnt feel bad around people i didnt know, it felt great. They say whatever doesnt kill you makes you stronger. Well thats true
just try to talk to people dont worry about what they think about you eventually youll get comfortable and open up and be yourself.

[PuertoRican_Lover]

I'm going to give you the answer no one else is going to give you. Seek your spiritual self, go to church and congregate with others that do not see the physical traits of a man as the defining essence of a man. It is very easy to meet people at church, they are usually very friendly and welcoming. The girls there tend not to judge a man so much on his looks alone but also on his character and his inner spiritual self.

Have value in yourself based on something beyond your physical form. Embrace the positive in your inner qualities and let others see that you have more to offer than your fleshly existence. Let your personality shine, have a positive attitude and a uplifting spirit.

As long as you base your worth on your physical material exterior form, you'll never be happy. Your solution to your woes is deep inside of you and not your appearance. Go to church socials and be around people and not at home in a depressed state.

Your loneliness and fatigue will only worsen if you try to tackle your problems in your solitude. Go to church, even if you are not religious, it is still a good social environment!

[Mr.Fortesque]

Originally posted by PuertoRican_Lover

The girls there tend not to judge a man so much on his looks alone but also on his character and his inner spiritual self.



U know this from your own experience? Which church do U go in? :D
It should be, how U wrote it, but it isn't. ;) Even church girls aren't perfect :D LOL!

[white_hype]

LIFT WEIGHTS AND GET HUGE, UFF SED


ALSO STARTING THINKNG LIKE IF U DONT TAL K T O THE GIRL YOU WILL BE ALONE FORE EVER

DO OR DIE


NO WUT IM TOMBOUT

[jaybeezi]

I'm 22 and just starting to feel good about myself, i'm overwieght, (but loosing wieght) and always thought of myself as unnattractive, and that no girl would ever want to be with me, not even an unnattractive one, but then, even though I was nervous as shyt, I went and talked to this beautiful girl that I had liked for awhile, and she asked me for my #, asked me out, and I was happy. It later turned out that she was pretty wierd, so I forgot about her.

At about the same time I started going out to bars/clubs with my friends that always went out, and I never had confidence in my dancing skills, but u just go out and do it, and you'd be surpsrised how easy it is, then once u are confident in that it shows, and girls/women/ladies/whatever want to dance with you, your confidence shows through whatever u do, and I find that confidence, and just feeling better about yourself draws people towards you.

I hope this helps you at least a little bit, becuase thats all you need to get started, GOOD LUCK.:D

[Dirtheart]

I just *CAN'T* talk to people.

First of all NEVER EVER say or think this again! "I just can't" is a self-defeating affirmation and it is not true. If you have difficulty, there are reasons for it and you need to identify them and LEARN how to overcome them.

If it's a nervous feeling you get, then work on building confidence or inner peace. If it's not knowing what to say, work on that. There are books that will tell you how.

I definitely agree with Puerto about finding a church or a spiritual interest, even if you learn from books for the time being. I have suffered a lot of anxiety disorders (agoraphobia, panic attacks, even anorexia) and when I started practising Buddhism I was able to overcome them all just by developing a sense of peace within my mind. But it doesn't matter what religion or belief you choose as long as it suits you and it gives you inner fulfillment.

Not only will a strong mind help you cope with everything life throws at you, but it is also a very attractive quality.

[Dirtheart]

I'm also going to recommend reading a book called "Face the Fear and Do it Anyway by Susan Jeffers. I recently saw it mentioned either on this site or a similar one, bought it and it has been a major enhancement to my life. No exaggeration!

It explains how restrictions are self-imposed, and once you realize this, you can take your life back from the hands of fate, luck, others, and take control of your own moods and decisions.

Fact is, everyone has problems, but how deeply they affect you all depends on how much you dwell on them.

An exercise you could try, which worked great for me, is to find a busy place (mall, city centre), hold your head up and stroll through it very slowly. Look at the other people and your surroundings. See how people rush around, listen to the cacophony of voices in the air and think of yourself as a spectator, watching a performance (as you would the TV).

I do this whereever I go these days and it allows me to distinguish between myself and my surroundings. It usually fills me with a lot of peace and optimism.

[uly55]

chancer357......

Ok mate I have had a quick skim thru your post.I have some advice that WILL help you if you do it. This isn't Dj stuff.....but it will change your life if you do it. Ok firstly I will tell you that i'm 29yrs old, had 1 short term girlfriend in high school, never kissed or had sex...yet (Laugh if you want). I was so depressed, getting sick (asthma, allergies and chronic fatigue). I used to think so badly of my self I thought I was so ugly and people used to only talk to me because I was intellectually and physically disabled. None of which was true. Now I believe that everything negative that you have experienced come from your beliefs about yourself. It has originated from when you were young and built up and fested in your sub-conscious all these years. Good news is you can change this!

I decided 3 months ago that I couldn't stand my life being like this anylonger......I read heaps of books and listened to audio books on this subject.

You have a life-script that was programmed by what you experienced as you grew up till now. Your life script (sub-conscious programming) sends out energy or waves that attracts everything in your life. You are currently sending out waves that are turning away women and the things you want in your life.

To change this you have to change you're thinking! Remember "what you think about expands and becomes your reality". "As a man thinkth, so shall he be!"

To change your thinking do.....

Affirmations (positive statements) This was what I believe change my life! For example say out loud " I am a sexy and attractive guy and women I find attractive are drawn to me!" ,"I am worthy of love!" , " I can do anything!"

I have around 90 of these affirmations in a note book which I say 15 times each. That's 1350 repititions of the affirmations per day. Takes about an hour each day. What you don't have the time to do them I hear you say.....think about how many hours a day you are miserable...worth spending an hour do I think.Repitition is the key with affirmations.Repitition of positive believe's and thoughts, evevtually dissolve the negative and stuck thought patterns. I had massive gains in every area of my life by doing these.

Visulalize what you want to happen in your life. Do a 30sec visualization of the end result of what you want. eg if you want to get married.....see yourself at your 10th wedding aniversary with your kids around you, and you kissing your wife. Adapt it to what ever you want......get the picture! Before you start your visulaization get yourself into a happy mood by remembering something in your life that made you happy or laugh. A tv show, something a friend or family member did ect.

Write your life script down! Write what u want to happen in your life. For example......mine would be like......"By april 30th Uly goes on a bussines trip. Uly meets bussiness partners who take him out for dinner. They go to a fantastic restauant. They were rushed into the restaurant so fast that they were mistakenly given the wrong tables to sit at. 3 beautiful and attractive ladies come into the restaurant to find Uly and his bussiness parterns sitting at there tables.Uly is full of confidence and asks the ladies If they would like to join them. They say yes and he pulls up chairs for the ladies. Uly strikes up a great conversation with the ladies and finds he has alot in common with one of the ladies. Uly gets her phone number and they agree to have coffee on the weekend etc etc etc. You see what i'm say (that was very quick and not well written). Then read it everyday for 2months then forget about it! watch the very events that you wrote about in your life script turn up in your life.

Remember what you place your attention on will show up in your life. If you want a girlfriend, place your focus on that you already have that girlfriend. If you focus on " I don't have a girlfriend" not haveing a girlfriend will show up in your life.

know the Dj bible inside out........these guys know what they are talking about on this forum.....use there advice! become the Dj.....remember Being a Dj is a way of life.....not just a formula or a bunch of lines to use on women.

ok so.......

* do affirmations (this is one of the best ways to change your thinking and thus how the world / women see you and what you'll attract into your life!)

* Do your 30sec visualization (everyday)

* Write out your new life script

* Learn everthing in the DJ bible and in this forum.

* Get out and socialize.....I joined Dance classes (a good none treatening enviroment to meet ladies. Women love men who can dance), Go to church, join a club of some kind, join a charity.....something that will get you out there to meet women!

In the last month, I have meet 5 wonderful women and I have had lots more flirt with me. My confidence is soring. i'm the happest i've ever been in my life. I don't think badly of myself any longer. I dress better. people who have hated me in the past are now friends with me. more money is flowing into my life. The list goes on. 90% of these things happen without me doing anything. Women Started hitting on me (not all of them tho.....you still have to do the work), but things flowed much easier.

Reading material......

* "Secrects of attraction" by Sandra ann Taylor (must read....the book that changed my life)

* "Absolute happiness" by Michael Rowland (get it...explains in detail about most that I wrote above)

* Any thing by Wayne Dyer (especial his stuff on manifesting your destiny or how to get what you really, really,really,really want)

I am no Dj...yet. I am no master on thinking and attitude changeing. I just discover what worked for me and put it in to practice! I still have alot to learn, but considering what I used to be and what I am now......I think I'm doing well.

You can do it to mate, but you have to put in the hard work.

Good luck and be sure to post when you get the results you were after!!

Uly :)

[Ashlee Angel]

Mature man's forum

[chancer357]

I appriciate the attempt advice about things to try, but thats just not going to help. At this point I'm paralysed to take any action. I'm just not able to strike up and maintain any kind of conversation , I'm not going to walk slowly and look at people in a mall. I just *CAN'T* do that. I don't know how else to express it. Its not that I'm just afraid to do it, its alot more than that. If I had to choose between doing that and anything else I would choose the anything else.
For me, trying to do this type of thing is like trying to hold my hand in a flame.

In my mind, I'm just not as-good-as everyone else. I don't feel I have the right to approach anyone at all. I don't know why. I grew up alone, always commuting to school (grade school, ..., grad school) far from where I lived.
Kids always were mean to me when I was younger because I wasn't part of thier group of friends. In high school I was left out because I wasn't one of the cool-people and I didn't grow up and go to grade school with those people. In collage, I didn't know anyone because I didnt live in the dorms; I wasn't part of any group and was alone the whole time). That's all I know. If people left me alone, then that was a good thing because I wouldn't be made fun of.
At least then I could distract myself with school at that point and not really care so much. Now I don't have that luxury anymore.

I used to sort of try to do things like some suggested. But what would end up happening is that I couldn't even make small talk with a hairdress. That would make me feel even worse, and things overall would get worse for me because instead of it being some kind of small stepping stone to becoming better with this, its just another reminder that I'm not good-enough because I couldn't even do that.
Now, if I am in a restaraunt, (IF I even go to one) and they forget ketchup or scrwe my order up I won't even say anything at all.

I feel like the only thing that could help at this point is some kind of medicine or something.
Has anyone ever had to get medication? Did it help? I don't know how or who to ask for help with that.

[Dark Nimbus]

While I'm not 27 yet (I'm 26), I can tell you that it's never too late to change. I was anti-social and a quiet loner until just 2 years ago. I was severely depressed, to the point that I was physically falling apart and tired of living. I gave up the thought of even ever being with a girl or "getting married" someday, because I was 24 at the tme and still a virgin, without any prospects in sight. While I wasn't really ugly, I was a chunky/fat guy who didn't know how to dress or take care of myself.

Let's just say a LOT has changed in the span of these last two years. I shed the excess weight, bought some nice clothes, cut my hair short, and started taking care of myself mentally and physically. I found myself a girlfriend and lost my virginity at 25, and even though she was/is a great girl I decided to break up with her because I wanted to know what else is out there, and what more I could achieve. I was scared because I didn't have any backup prospects, but I broke up with her anyways and forced myself into being single again. Since then I've slept with three other girls and am currently three months into possibly starting another LTR.

Now, the problem here is you're not desperate enough to change yet. Obviously you're getting there if you're on this site, but until you "snap" and realize it won't get better unless you do something about it, this is what the rest of your life will be like. Do you really want to be alone and feeding this negative cycle of telling yourself what a loser you are? Trust me man, there's a lot of ugly and good looking people out there, and most of them are getting laid because they're not sitting around feeling sorry for themselves. They're out there surrounded by people, putting themselves in situations where they at least have a chance at meeting girls or making friends, who in turn will lead to meeting girls.

I don't agree with the advice to go try hit on some 9 or 10 or chat up hotties, it's way to early for you to be taking such a huge leap. All you really should be doing now is looking at your faults and fixing them, while going out and mingling with other human beings. I won't kid you, it's not easy to change yourself this late in the game, but it is very possible. I still find I'm quiet at times when surrounded by others, but at least I'm aware of it and trying to do something about it now.

You say you're not treated by girls like you see other guys being treated, but are you really putting in as much effort as they are (smiling, chatting them up, kino, etc)? You said your friends like to go to bars and pick girls up, so you can't hang with them? WHY NOT?!? That's exactly what you should be doing, you should be hanging around guys that are trying to get girls and are more social then you. Learn from them and stop your whinning, you're 27 years old and it's your JOB to hit on girls! Smile, flirt, challenge a girl to a game of air hockey if you see her playing with a friend. This is how you build self confidence.

Another thing you should do is go online and learn to chat with girls. Learn to keep a conversation going without silent pauses and find out what the typical topics in a conversation are. I used to be clueless to this and was scared ****less to chat with girls in person because I knew I'd run out of things to say and end up looking stupid. The problem was I just didn't have enough practice, and chatting online has given me ability to chat a girl up for a long time and keep her laughing without a problem. It's taught me how to focus on certain things she says and open new conversations based on that.

The point is, your life is passing you by man, and it could be SO much better if you stopped being so scared of everything and did something about it. You're better off then I was in a way, I didn't even have any guy friends back then, so don't tell me you're ready to get on medications already when you haven't even made a real effort to change.

[TooColdUlrick]

chancer, the "problems" that you've mentioned are not problems, they are symptoms. the root problems are probably ones that are beyond the help of this board.

you need to see a therapist, because it sounds like you are suffering from depression, or something like it. be careful though, because these people love to prescribe medication, even if you don't need it.

at a minimum, you have rock bottom self-esteem and zero confidence, justified and rationalized in your own mind.

the "just do it" strategy is true. you have to. you don't have a choice, unless you are willing to let your mental situation degrade further. i think you know that it will.

you know that you have a problem--that's why you've come here. that's the first step. the next step is to figure out why you have this problem. i think you already know this too. then, you begin to fix it. take babysteps.

you keep saying, "I CANT do that". do what? meet and hook up with women? you're putting the cart before the horse. in any event, GET THAT OUT OF YOUR VOCABULARY. all you have to do is remove that one "T" in can't, and forge ahead, as difficult as it might be. words are powerful, especially if you yourself believe them. you know you already believe in the word "can't" very strongly and it's affecting you negatively. case proven. now you have to believe in the word "can", and affect yourself positively, looking forward. easier said than done, but you must change this above all else.

getting new clothes and a new hairstyle, while probably true, IS NOT GOING TO HELP YOU. your problems are within.

you absolutely MUST go out and interact with people. forget about dating right now. just forget about it man. BUT, do not ignore interacting with women. FORCE yourself to get into social situations--clubs, charity, night classes, gym, whatever... in your case, you must be willing to take a risk that you will boof it up. it takes practice.

you probably don't smile much. you probably don't have much fun. life is a chore. these are the things you MUST, MUST, MUST, work on. trust me, you are not alone in this regard. yes, sometimes you have to LEARN how to have fun.

initiate fun things with your current friends.


In my mind, I'm just not as-good-as everyone else. I don't feel I have the right to approach anyone at all. I don't know why.

you know that this is bvll****. it's a dead-end street. hit the brakes and reverse course. countless people have done it, and you CAN too. if you don't, it will invade other areas of your life--like your job, your friends, your family. it's a cancer of the mind and spirit.

go get the Bible, read it, and do the bootcamp thing. from your perspective, not to pick up chicks, but to interact with people in general. that's really what the underlying theme of the Bible is all about.

try this... this week, go to a starbucks (or similar), one that is out of your way. sit down and chat up with someone. be positive and enthusiastic, even if it's about the weather. be the exact opposite of who you normally are (like George Costanza on Sienfeld). this is an experiment, you're role playing here. do this at least five times, over the course of a couple of weeks, before you make any judgements about your "progress". yes, JUST DO IT!

[Dirtheart]

Ok, I'm just going to tell you how I overcame my agoraphobia and maybe there's something here that will makes sense and help you.

Like a lot of kids, I had a horrendous time at school. I was verging on obese, was ridiculed and picked on by everyone. Even my so-called friends called me up in an assembly awards ceremony to give me their exclusive "Fatman award" (I ran out crying). Basically, I left school and the problems continued and I actually attacked in the street for standing up for myself.

To cut a long story short, I had no friends and I reached a point where I "couldn't" leave the house. I did, however, managed to start a friendship with some penpals I met via a computer interest. Writing letters was a good way for me to communicate with people without them judging me in person, but for ages, I was too nervous to even speak to them on the phone, until one day I decided to phone one of them. I was trembling and stuttering, but the guy was really cool and when I put the phone down I felt very proud of myself.

Gradually I started speaking to a lot of my penpals on the phone regularly and it got easier. Thinking to myself "Other people don't matter, I still have friends I can call" I soon found the courage to step out of the house and make it to the corner shop, which I did every day, because I could.

I then took the step of going to another shop, a little further this time and gradually increased my boundaries. Meanwhile, at home, I did a lot of working out and a lot of reading (self-help books, Buddhism, world religions, NLP, psychology etc) and literally transformed myself into an intelligent person. I was dieting and exercising, so I was losing weight all this time and was slowly becoming happier with myself.

Eventually I took the plunge and invited a few penpals to my house. We had a great time and they thought a lot of me. I started going into the city (though it scared the hell out of me; I couldn't even speak to a sales clerk without hyperventilating).

Basically, I took one step at a time to overcome my fear, while continually improving myself behind closed doors. You see, my fear gave me all the determination I needed, so every step was a challenge. My life was a challenge.

Then I enrolled on a computer course. Not much social interraction, but it placed me in a public environment where I even made some friends (who remain my best friends to this day).

The time came when I felt strong enough to get a job. But not just an isolated office job. I went into retail work where I had to face strangers all day every day. I had panic attacks more than once, but soon I found I could get into a routine where I didn't even have to think about it. Before I knew it, I was holding conversations!

It was only then that I decided to work on my image. All the clothes I had hung off me since I had lost so much weight, so I spent all of my wages on a new wardrobe (which I based on cool styles I saw on TV or in movies).

From there it was just a case of progressing further. I went to college, met more friends and since I had educated myself, I was top of the class, was able to help others, gain respect - big boost to the confidence there. I even did a few presentations in front of the whole class.

It was around this time it hit me. I had achieved all this through my own determination! No one helped me. I had transformed from the fat kid at school who walked away with failed grades to a straight A student, a mentor to other students, a slim and fashionable person and someone who was actually very popular. I realised that I could achieve virtually anything by using the same approach - and I have excelled all of my past ambitions and am now looking at new ones.

I've had girlfriends too and over the past year I've revamped my look and gained confidence and it appears that I'm quite a hit with the ladies these days. I'm now looking to become a successful DJ in the hope of forging the perfect long term relationship, as well as improving my confidence. I've also taught a few classes at youth training centres and am looking to become a full-time teacher in a year's time.

You know, over the past 2 years I've had so many guys say to me "I wish I was you" or "I wish I had your [insert trait or quality]" and the compliments from women are even more flattering. ;)

All my biggest passions started out as my biggest fears, but you have to take small steps. Every time you achieve one small step, do it again until you are comfortable taking another. You will probably even get a kick from each one you take.

I know it's easy for people on this board to say "Just do this" or "Try that", but realistically speaking, I know it's very traumatising for you and seemingly impossible at this time. Take everything gradually and at your own pace, but no matter how slow you take it make sure you are progressing and not stagnating.

I'm very sorry for this VERY long post, but when I read things like this I can really relate. I hope I haven't bored you and that you found something here of some use. Best of luck.

[Dirtheart]

As for medication, you could try a ceratonin supplement, but these are only available via prescription. You only need to tell your doctor you are depressed and he/she should take it very seriously.

But although medication did lift my spirits when I tried it, it turned me into a "fake" person. I became very lively and kind of camp and childish. I felt great, but I was not doing my suave image any favours. :) I wouldn't recommend medication unless you're actually crippled with depression and can't cope with life, and only then would it be a worthwhile tradeoff.

[gentleman193]

Check your vitamin and mineral levels. Cheaper than medication. Will solve the same problems a lot more safely.

[oldschool]

I agree with checking your vitamim/mineral levels, especially metals. I've heard copper, lead, arsenic, and other metals can cause anxiety if they are out of balance. That could be a bunch of crap, though. I don't know if it's true, but I just thought I would throw that out there for you chancer, you may want to research it. People may say it's stupid, but if it helps you, go for it.

I think your anxiety is probably more of an emotional problem than physical, though. I used to be a little like you, and I'll tell you what helped me. I got a job bagging groceries. Interacting with people was part of my job, and I learned to make small talk. See, the part that helped me the most was that I had two different groups. I had co-workers and customers. I felt like it wasn't just me interacting with strangers, my co-workers could pick up the slack if I froze during the conversation. This took the pressure off. After a while, I got to be friends with most of the other employees, too. And working 4 or 5 days a week, I got used to human interaction really fast. I'm not telling you to become a bag boy, I'm saying you've got to put yourself in the right situations. You'll have to figure out what's right for you.

One question you should ask yourself is what you enjoy doing. You said you have friends, but they want to go to bars, so you can't hang out with them. What do you want to do? You said you don't share many common interests as your friends. What are your interests? If you don't know the answer, your problem is that you have nothing you love. It's about getting out and doing your thing, then you'll start making friends. And if you are making friends, it's just a matter of time until you get a girlfriend.

You also said you're a failure as a person. This attitude is part of the problem. There aren't any winners or losers in life. Everyone starts from the same place, and everyone crosses the same finish line. When you wake up in the morning, you've been given a gift you can use however you want. Tomorrow you can sit hom alone if you want to, or you can go party; but you've still used a day. You aren't getting it back. And I know trying to reason with you won't work. It won't because the fear is illogical. You aren't afraid of the dog, you're afraid of his bark. You know there's nothing to fear but it doesn't matter. I'm not saying just go do it, that won't rid you of fear. But on some level you know you must take a first step. All of the pills, all of the motivation, all of the therapy, and all of the analysis in the world won't take that first step for you. That first step is the biggest, the hardest, and the scariest. The problem isn't that you can't overcome your fear, it's that you aren't ready to take the first step at all costs.

[Don of Truth]

It wasn't easy. You are in for some serious gut wrenching emotional experiences.
You will have to go the the depths of yourself. You will have to reach the dark basement where your demons hide.
"Anger, misery, you'll suffer unto me" ~Metallica~

PuertoRican_Lover is right. Seek your spiritual self. It is the only way to expell those demons.
Granted, going to church may not be the answer. It wasn't for me. I found my spiritual self through intellectual analysis (yes, it's possible).

Yup, I had a religious experience as a result of intellectual pursuits of the human psyche and human behavior. It was insane.
I sent myself to the hospital b/c I didn't know what was happening.

I remember times I would approach girls even when I was having these symptoms:
Rapid heart beat (up to 180 bpm), shaking, quivering voice, flushed face, intense anxiety, fear...you name it.

I just did it. I was so angry that I was having these symptoms evertime I wanted to talk to a girl I was attracted to that I said "f*ck it", I will do it anyway.
I was a mess and pissed but I NEEDED to know WHY. Why was this happeneing. Why why why.

I've taken anti-depressants and all kinds of stuff.
One thing that REALLY helped me was a 9-month Anger Management Course I had to take as part of court ordered rehab. You know...that course actually showed me that I have a right to EXPRESS myself and how to do it in a manner that communicates what I feel safely and effectively.
That was 6 years ago. After the course ended I lost my way again. Now, my spiritual side is my strength.

I will tell you that there is a connection between what anti-depressants do and what a peaceful state of mind is like.
A peaceful state of mind will naturally increase your serotonin levels. You will get close to the same effect as anti-depressants.
Some of these dosages that these anti-depressants tabelts have are WAY overkill.
BUT....I do suggest you try them. (low dosage) See what it is like. Experience it. Know that you CAN feel like that naturally.

Also, go to school if you haven't already. Get an education.

One thing that also helped me was I bulked up. I put on 50 lbs. Yeah...30lb of it was fat but it did improve the attention I was getting from girls.

Yeah...if you are good looking then it is easier. Girls meet you half way. The rest of us have to work harder at it and go the whole distance.

[tonyw]

I'm not sure where you are based but I was in a very similar position to you up to about 18 months ago. I have slowly been working on overcoming shyness and social anxiety, which I see traits of in your personality.

My first two recommendations for you are as follows:

Get some kind of training course or self-help course in assertiveness - this is a great tip for building self-confidence and I have come on leaps and bounds since taking this up. Alot of people talk about assertiveness as if it's a talent that only certain people have. It is a skill which can be learned given time and practice. I bought a book called 'The Assertiveness Workbook', which gives practical exercises to do in order to get yourself moving in the right direction.

The other book that I read (that I regularly re-read/practice from) is 'Overcoming Social Anxiety and Shyness'. This is a GREAT book as it covers all the problems that people suffer on this forum; SOCIAL ANXIETY is really painful for people that suffer from it - I know because I have been there and sometimes it is still there. It's worth everyone studying this subject as it relates to attractive women, people in powerful positions, strangers etc. Basically all the things that people are here to overcome.

Hope this gives you a point in the right direction...

Tony.

[Don of Truth]

Originally posted by Dirtheart
As for medication, you could try a serotonin supplement, but these are only available via prescription. You only need to tell your doctor you are depressed and he/she should take it very seriously.

But although medication did lift my spirits when I tried it, it turned me into a "fake" person. I became very lively and kind of camp and childish. I felt great, but I was not doing my suave image any favours. :) I wouldn't recommend medication unless you're actually crippled with depression and can't cope with life, and only then would it be a worthwhile tradeoff.

Agree here. What you describe as "fake" I will take it one step further and put it in detail and why it feels "fake".

First of all, it is artificial. Artificially induced happiness.

Think of it as a foundation and house analogy.
The happiness is the house. The foundation is the footing the happiness is built upon.
When you take meds you have a nice big shiny house...but the foundation is missing !!! So in the back of your mind (a mix of the conscious and sub-consious) you know something is missing.
Your happiness isn't grounded in the concrete. You still have unanswered questions.

The true foundation for happiness is very hard to come by.
It comes with the experience of life and a sense of your place in the world.
Many people have a "house of cards" as their foundation.
Such as those who's happiness comes from secular things.

I do not suggest here that if you take meds everything will be hunky dory. I do recommend you try them to get a taste of what CAN BE HAD naturally.

Once you build a foundation...then you can build your house (happiness).
That foundation will constantly be chipped away during the course of a day whether you are spiritual or not.
Without spirituality you will spend your days toiling and working to fix all the cracks and holes.
With spirituality that foundation is rejuvenated mainly during sleep (and also through practicing your faith..whatever that may be).
You wake up each morning with a new foundation.
The day can be hard and that foundation will be chipped away at and cracked...but the next day it's rebuilt..fresh.

And your house stands. Day after day after day. Year after year after year.

[Hundert]

the following unfortunately isnt a post to make you feel better, but I still feel it has to be said...

I talked to a friend about depressions today. The mother of a friend of her's commited suicide a few days ago, and her own mother did as well when she was 13.

She suffered from depression, and it's a VERY VERY serious disease. My friend described the thoughts of her mother before she commited suicide to me, and it sounds very similar to what you are describing.

Keep in mind that this was a mother with a wonderful husband, full of life, two wonderful children (as I can testify), interesting hobbies, a fulfilling job, etc.
So you would probably envy her life on the surface.

But one day, she simply did what she described as "falling into a hole". She felt superfluous, she said she couldnt even express her love to her family anymore because there simply arent any feelings left inside her, etc...
Her husband knew, her daughter (my friend) knew and did everything they could to help her. In the end, she still commited suicide. Noone in her family could get to her.

Depression is a sickness that you HAVE to get cured. The wonderful people here have great tips on how to do it, but I guess you need a therapist to accompany you on what will probably your hardest way ever.

If you find a therapist you really trust, which is what you should focus on, and he prescribes medication, take it. I am not a big fan of medication myself, but if you feel great on medication you can start getting hobbies, reading books and do all that other stuff posted above and experience this "being reborn" and eventually, when you get off the medication it might be tough as hell from withdrawal, but you have a lot more of a life to get you through it.

Get help. Please.

...and therapy isnt that bad. I went to a psychologist as a kid and we mostly played table-tennis. :D

[NewMan]

I think that you need to WANT to change - and thats the key here. Almost every person who has been there, had a great desire to change.

From your posts there are lots of reasons why you are like you are - but I do not get from you a real great desire that you want to change....

I hear excuses why you can't do something...


I'm not going to walk slowly and look at people in a mall. I just *CAN'T* do that. I don't know how else to express it. Its not that I'm just afraid to do it, its alot more than that. If I had to choose between doing that and anything else I would choose the anything else.


From what I've read, your putting a lot of emphasis on what you believe makes a happy life.... do you think that if you could talk to women everything would be fine? I think not.

You need to look at yourself and figure out what YOU want out of life. Women are not the answer - you can't find happiness in someone else, if you can't be happy alone.

Don't you have anything you like to do?

Why can't you wealk around in the mall?

If things are this bad, then you need to go get some serious help...


Baby steps my friend.


One final though - all these people who are hanging out talking to strangers and having a great time... you know what the common simularity between them all are?

They's have fun with or without those women their talking to.

You must make the most of your surrondings...

Give off negative energy and thats what your results will be....

Fearing life is not the way forward.

[chancer357]

quote:I just *CAN'T* talk to people.

First of all NEVER EVER say or think this again! "I just can't" is a self-defeating affirmation and it is not true. If you have difficulty, there are reasons for it and you need to identify them and LEARN how to overcome them.

I'm trying to express to you what this is like. It may be an illogical, self-defeating fear - call it what you like; but this is how it is for me. If you held a gun to my head I'd probably gladly let you pull the trigger rather then try to go an express interest in a person.


From what I've read, your putting a lot of emphasis on what you believe makes a happy life.... do you think that if you could talk to women everything would be fine? I think not.

I only know that I don't enjoy life now. And that is a big rason why.

Get help. Please.
How do you do that? I couldnt' ask my doctor at my lsat physical because I was too ashamed. I dont even know if I could talk to a therapist face to face

[Hundert]

Originally posted by chancer357

How do you do that? I couldnt' ask my doctor at my lsat physical because I was too ashamed. I dont even know if I could talk to a therapist face to face

I honestly don't know, I suggest combing the net for any psychologists in yor area, then try to find some feedback on him (there might be a website or forum for that), then try to get his eMail and write your problem down, without him even knowing your name. If you get an answer that satisfies you, consider making an appointment. From the eMail he'll already know your problem, so it might not be that hard for you.


If that doesnt work, just call some psychologists/psychiatrists offices and ask for an eMail address because you're too shy to speak to him directly at first. You have to use the phone for that, though ;)
Again, if the person on the phone is rude to you or they need your social security or name or anything for that, just talk to the next psychologist as they might only be after your money...

[Dirtheart]

If you go to your doctor, what do you fear will happen? At the most, you'll end up crying or panicking. So what? Doctors and professionals in this field are used to seeing people cry, panic and go crazy. In fact if you go and see him/her INTENDING to cry and panic I bet you won't even get the urge to!

When I went to see my doctor about depression, my stomach was churning, my face was hot and I honestly felt like I was going to bawl the place down.

Actually, in all of the scenarios you fear, the worst that will happen is you will cry and the fear of crying can be very difficult to handle.

My advice is have an excuse to fall back on in case it happens. If you do happen to cry and someone asks why, tell them you recently lost a close friend/relative or something. The chances are you'll never have to use that "safety net", but it's there just in case.

[PuertoRican_Lover]

Seek medical help for your physical and psychological needs, and seek spiritual guidance for your inner void!!!!

[Skel]

Dont be ashamed mate. I am also 27 and have depression. Its not fun I know. Simply go to your physician and tell him you think you are depressed and need help. IM sure he can get you on the right track. LIke stated above, these are professionals and deal with this every day. Your not gonna be the first person to come into his office and say I need help, Im depressed.

[chili kat]

There are many discussion boards where people with the same issue get together and discuss their problems. Go there. Talk to them. Find out how they are learning to deal with it. They will be able to help you.

[malestrom]

Look.

The bottom line is that you're afraid.

I know, because I was where you are and after a year of sitting in my bedroom anaylzing myself down to the most core levels, the final conclusion was this: all of my problems come down to fear.

To get around this, you don't need books. You don't need a therapist. You don't need new-age mental techniques. All that stuff is just various ways of having sunshine blown up your ass so the fear is numbed. It's a crutch.


What you do need is to make a choice. And here are your choices:

1) Change
2) Don't change


If you want to change, you basically have to do whatever scares you. That's it. You don't want to hear that, but that's the answer and life isn't going to change for you.

So much of this seduction stuff gets overly complicated. 99% of it isn't necessary.

Bottom line:

You need to overcome your fears.
Get to the point where you can approach 10 girls a week.
That's 520 girls a year.

Even if you failed 95% of the time, that means you'd STILL have a new girl every two weeks.

Now do it.
If you say you can't - you're not ready to reap the benefits of being a man.

[Ricky]

This is a great thread by the way.

I am 30 now, but when I was 27 I felt stuck.

I decided to start making changes. First I went back to grad school, because I pretty much was bored with my job and not liking the future I saw in it.

Around the same time in the fall I met my current gf. We dated, I was AFC, but started by some great coincidence to read these boards. It helped tremendously. I also started dating a few other women.

The self-help tapes are an excellent recommendation. I love Tony Robbins stuff. The reason why he reaches me is his enthusiasm. I still listen to them now.

Envision a better future. Sometimes you need to ditch a few negative friends to do. Start making positive changes in your life. It is TRULY YOUR GOAL TO BUILD YOURSELF UP. DON"T COUNT ON ANYONE ELSE TO DO IT FOR YOU. YOU ARE YOUR OWN SALESMAN AND WILL BE FOR LIFE!

[WestCoaster]

First off, just getting on this board, seeking help, and identifying problems is an ENORMOUS step. You should give yourself a pat on the back (OK, that's tough -- buy yourself a sundae) for doing this. Do you know how many people live lives of futility and do nothing about their misery?! A lot, as in probably more than half the world.

Another good thing is all the so-called faults you mentioned? Well, each and every one can be worked on and improved. I won't say cured, but they can be worked on, big time.

One of my best friends has depression and it is brutal. It's a long, long process and a dreadful disease. She's an amazing person, Ph.d., drop-dead gorgeous, kind, etc. (yeah, I'm not for her, but it ain't going in that direction) but she has despression and it wipes her out. But each and every day she gets up, tackles the world, teaches her classes, and is genuinely a great person. You can do this, too!

Like others said here, baby steps. Ignore the instant gratification of our U.S. society (if you're from the U.S.) and work on slow, steady improvement. The beauty of the DJ Bible is it is a long work in progress: you work on eye contact with X amount of people, progress to smiling, then to saying 'hi', and then to meeting people, then to asking them out.

The DJ Bible is highly underrated as 90 percent of the people posting ignore it and think this site is about just scoring chicks. Actually it's about self-improvement.

Take small steps, work on human relations.

Couple of keeper books, oldies but goodies that are priceless:

1. "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Norman Vincent Peale. A timeless classic that is excellent for learning human relations.

2. "Psycho-Cybernetics" by Maxwell Maltz. (The old one is better than P-C 2000, the updated version.) He's a plastic surgeon who discovered that people most listen to their internal voice and subconscious and those who received plastic surgery weren't always happy after the surgery.

I'm guessing you're not as homely as you say you are and not as bad a person as you make yourself out to be. A smile, nice hello, and a gesture such as opening a door for a person goes a LONG ways in life -- we've just been told that all of these enormous endeavors mean nothing in today's corrupt society.

Case in point: My buddies and I are at a bar in Seattle. A young hottie bartender is barely looking at or helping us. Another woman bartender comes up, probably 40, not particularly attractive (at first!), then she starts smiling, starts talking hockey and baseball with us (huge props for that!), laughing, helping us with great service, etc. In no time we all agreed the so-called hottie was no longer hot and the "average" looking gal was awesome and all three of us would date her in a heartbeat -- and all three of us do OK with the ladies.

Attitude, smile, kindness, and confidence go a long ways. Work on developing them and you'll be a big success.

Best wishes 27 and SOMETHING!

[locrian]

I appriciate the attempt advice about things to try, but thats just not going to help. At this point I'm paralysed to take any action. I'm not going to walk slowly and look at people in a mall. I just *CAN'T* do that
...
For me, trying to do this type of thing is like trying to hold my hand in a flame.


You're right, the advice here is not going to help. It's good advice, but not for what you have.

When your mental state is such that you are paralyzed, you are incapacitated to the point of not being to go to the mall, not being able to so much as look at people, etc, that says to me that something is seriously wrong. Maybe this is obvious since you said so yourself, but this is destroying your life.

Dude, you are way past the point of getting pointers from a web site or chat board. Get your ass to a counsellor and get it there now! That's the only advice I have, go to a professional! This is not about getting girls, this is about your LIFE, man!

[raceat8400]

My suggestions:

- Go to Amazon.com and buy Anthony Robbins "Awaken the Giant" and "Unlimited Power" CDs. Listen to them 30+ times each. Listen to them all the time for months. On the way to and from work. Constantly. One day it will click...
Specifically when he talks about belieds in Awaken the Giant. You have some sub conscous beliefs that you need to become conscious of. I know for me(I was very shy), I had the belief that people were watching me when I did ****. Like if I walked up to a women, that people would be watching and making judgments against me. When I figure that out, I got PISSED. I was sacrafising my life, not doing what I wanted to do just to please strangers expecitations. F*ck that. Anyway, I think Tony says ask the question "what would I have to believe to feel this way" or something to that effect. Ask yourself that.... What do you have to believe to feel afraid to make eye contact with women?

- Read "Using Your Brain for a Change" by Richard Bandler

- Watch this video. Its Bandler doing NLP on a 40 year old guy whos shy around women. I'm going to sell my copy on ebay if you want it: http://nlpco.com/products/bandler/bandler-137.html

[mahon83050]

Chancer:

I feel your pain my brother, I am 27 and have suffered from depression and anxiety problems most of my life. The worst thing about depression is no one can see or feel your pain like they can with (Second degree burns, a paralyzed person, mangled person etc) They might just think you choose to be anti-social and enjoy being miserable, when nothing could be further from the truth.

I agree with you, the most pain is seeing everyone else seem like they are a success with women etc. Go see a therapist, I am going to call one this week....you will feel better.

Better, yet Puerto Rican lover was 100% correct. Seek spiritual help thru Jesus or Yahweh (if you are Jewish) I am not going to say "Allah" because I have issues with Islam (but that is another story). One cannot truly ever be happy by relying on the things of the flesh and of this world (looks, how many girls u get, money, fame etc.) All of these things can be taken away from you in a heartbeat and nothing ever seems enough.

Good Luck my brother and I will pray for you and myself as well.

[Crank_It_Up]

Originally posted by chancer357
I'm trying to express to you what this is like. It may be an illogical, self-defeating fear - call it what you like; but this is how it is for me. If you held a gun to my head I'd probably gladly let you pull the trigger rather then try to go an express interest in a person....
there are girls who feel exactly the same way as you do, and would be thrilled if you showed them some interest. In order to find them you have to approach and show interest. Yes some girls will reject your advances, but so what? Every guy has faced rejection, nobody likes it, but it's all what you make out of it. If you make it into a really big deal, then it is. If you treat it like a pesky housefly, that that is what it becomes.

You are in complete control of how you feel about yourself and the world in which we live. Rejection should not be a big deal, it happens to everyone.

There are beautiful, brilliant, athletic, honest, caring women out there. If you land one of them, drop us a line and tell us how you did it. :) On the other hand there are some ugly, evil, stupid, messed up women at the opposite end of the spectrum. If you fall somewhere between those two extremes, then there are definitely women out there you need to approach. If they feel bad about themselves, they will surely never approach you, so it's up to you to make the first move.

When you express interest in a girl, she won't pull out a knife and stab you, she won't shoot you with a gun, she'll let you know if she is or isn't, and then you take it from there. The higher end of the spectrum will likely give less success than the lower end. Why not start with a butt-ugly girl that not even her dog would touch. Practice approaching the ugliest women you can find. No matter how bad you feel about yourself, there is always a woman that is uglier than you, or thinks she is. Strike up a friendly conversation and practice your convo skills. If you find you end up liking one of these girls, then great, problem sovled. If not, move on. As you become better at it, you'll feel relaxed and more confident in your ability to approach women.

[oldschool]

I forgot where this thread was as I don't post in this forum much. I came across an article the other day that reminded me of things said on this thread. I thought maybe it could help someone out.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/991115ap/2311.html

[ak5]

just keep this in your mind and when time comes this phrase will make sense:

Its all just show...

[Pulsar]

Originally posted by raceat8400
My suggestions:

- Go to Amazon.com and buy Anthony Robbins "Awaken the Giant" and "Unlimited Power" CDs. Listen to them 30+ times each. Listen to them all the time for months. On the way to and from work. Constantly. One day it will click...
Specifically when he talks about belieds in Awaken the Giant. You have some sub conscous beliefs that you need to become conscious of. I know for me(I was very shy), I had the belief that people were watching me when I did ****. Like if I walked up to a women, that people would be watching and making judgments against me. When I figure that out, I got PISSED. I was sacrafising my life, not doing what I wanted to do just to please strangers expecitations. F*ck that. Anyway, I think Tony says ask the question "what would I have to believe to feel this way" or something to that effect. Ask yourself that.... What do you have to believe to feel afraid to make eye contact with women?

- Read "Using Your Brain for a Change" by Richard Bandler

- Watch this video. Its Bandler doing NLP on a 40 year old guy whos shy around women. I'm going to sell my copy on ebay if you want it: http://nlpco.com/products/bandler/bandler-137.html

man you guys rock..the same books the same tapes the same stuff..haaha..I've been into that stuff over the last two or so years and have had HUUUUUGGE improvements.

Listen to the guys in this thread, they're all correct IMO...

Especcially get the anthony robbins CD's...that's one think you really ought to get..it makes a huge difference to actually hear someone elses voice and how they make sense of things like how your mind works and steps you can take to improve yourself..

Funny thig about this guy i'm quoting is that I just finished that book by bandler and it's just simply incredible...

good posts in here...

[noseguard20]

Originally posted by white_hype
LIFT WEIGHTS AND GET HUGE, UFF SED


ALSO STARTING THINKNG LIKE IF U DONT TAL K T O THE GIRL YOU WILL BE ALONE FORE EVER

DO OR DIE


NO WUT IM TOMBOUT

hell yeah!! He's right dude. Get to the weightroom, lift heavy and start eating alot of eggs and ****. Even if you're already fat, get bigger dude. And get some gold teeth too. Women love that ****

[unclebob]

You should read the book "Fight Club" by Chuck Phalinuk

it will open your mind to a whole new view on life.

[Hot Ice]

DO OR DIE


Whoa!

One of the best motivational sentences I've ever seen! :D

[Hot Ice]

Originally posted by unclebob
You should read the book "Fight Club" by Chuck Phalinuk

it will open your mind to a whole new view on life.

I really should read the book!

BTW. it's spelled Chuck Palahniukin ;)

[chancer357]

Nothing has changed really. If anything I've lost any shread of hope I had left. The only reason I'm even posting this is because I don't seem to be able to sleep for more than 4 hours on a good night.

I've a full time professional career. I'm not going to be going back to school, getting jobs bagging grocieries or waiting tables in a bar.

Working out, bulking up, etc. isn't happening. Having an eating disorder makes that a whole other problem.

I'm not interested in spirtuality. I don't believe there is any kind of God despite years of parochial school.

I pretty much just give up. Theres nothing worth saving anyway. There is no reason for any girl to ever be interested in me.

Its ironic when you think about it.. it is a problem with life overall not just problems meeting people. Supposedly just enjoying your own life and doing own thing is supposed to be the key to meeting girls (or so one of the theories goes) But its the lack of any kind of relationship that completely destroyed whatever was left of this "life".

Feeling good about anything I do, smiling at girl without being ashamed, smiling at all - its a fairy tale to me now. Even if I could get to that point, its so far away, so impossible that it seems pointless. The time it would take, the struggle to get there. And where would I be? I wouldn't even be at step 1. Just doing that is nothing, its not even scratching the surface of meeting a person or begining anything.

With any luck I'll be killed in a car accident or something soon. Too afraid and ashamed to find help, or to actually end it myself. Otherwise I probably would have killed myself by now.

[Pulsar]

Originally posted by chancer357
Nothing has changed really. If anything I've lost any shread of hope I had left. The only reason I'm even posting this is because I don't seem to be able to sleep for more than 4 hours on a good night.

I've a full time professional career. I'm not going to be going back to school, getting jobs bagging grocieries or waiting tables in a bar.

Working out, bulking up, etc. isn't happening. Having an eating disorder makes that a whole other problem.

I'm not interested in spirtuality. I don't believe there is any kind of God despite years of parochial school.

I pretty much just give up. Theres nothing worth saving anyway. There is no reason for any girl to ever be interested in me.

Its ironic when you think about it.. it is a problem with life overall not just problems meeting people. Supposedly just enjoying your own life and doing own thing is supposed to be the key to meeting girls (or so one of the theories goes) But its the lack of any kind of relationship that completely destroyed whatever was left of this "life".

Feeling good about anything I do, smiling at girl without being ashamed, smiling at all - its a fairy tale to me now. Even if I could get to that point, its so far away, so impossible that it seems pointless. The time it would take, the struggle to get there. And where would I be? I wouldn't even be at step 1. Just doing that is nothing, its not even scratching the surface of meeting a person or begining anything.

With any luck I'll be killed in a car accident or something soon. Too afraid and ashamed to find help, or to actually end it myself. Otherwise I probably would have killed myself by now.

You're no different than anyone else...you have more in common with most people than you think. You think you're the only one going through this?

Nah, you'd be wrong..see..you're so wrong because so many people have been in your situation before and turned it ALL completely around.

I'm not too sure what to say, but if you just 'think' in your mind that it's impossible...then well...it will be impossible...On the other hand, if you consciously decide to change what you think about and what you believe, then you can actually change.

What, you think you don't deserve to **** chicks? WTF...man, that's the screwed up thinking...You're like anyone else...you need to be happy too ya know...why are you trying to make this out to be some huge battle?

Here is another Imortant point...


Feeling good about anything I do, smiling at girl without being ashamed, smiling at all - its a fairy tale to me now.


That's crazy dude...I don't care what you look like..you have a right to smile at anyone, let alone some girl...Girls like attention dude....doesn't matter who they are, they like it...Just force yourself to smile and keep walking past...do that often.

Eventually you'll get used to it. Then eventually ask them what time it is some crap like that. Then walk away. Keep doing that for a few weeks/months...Do whatever it takes to adapt.

You can change!!! So many people have been in your situation and are doing really well...You have all the resources to change, you got DJism, mASF, and you got access to public libraries where you can learn how to motivate yourself etc. You got so much chances to improve yourself. Why not fully commit to it?

It's always gonna painful for a lil while when you learn new things and try to apply them..but each time you face that pain, you get a bit stronger and you can handle more and thus take more risks...but you gotta have a go and get out there.

TIme is ticking away...do a few things and keep the momentum rolling :)

[FratAndDiddy]

cheer up bro

what i've read has been nothing but good advice thrown at you. all your friends here are trying to help you and just about every angle of great advice has been offered.

every male who comes to this site has been clobbered my women. we come here to read, offer advice, and try to improve ourselves. you also came to this site to seek self improvement, so your thinking must not be totally negative.

my advice to you is to download this thread to a copier, print it out, sit down and give it a good reading.

i notice that you do come back and post in this thread you started so something has to be soaking into you so far.
the ability to change MUST start with you. whether it be spiritual or physical, YOU must make the first move.

[FlyGuy]

I'm not interested in spirtuality. I don't believe there is any kind of God despite years of parochial school.

OK man, trust me when I say that I was exactly where you are at not too long ago. When you contemplate life down to that level, you are faced with only 2 options:

1) End it.
2) Move on with life, knowing that you will die anyway so why rush it? If there really is no afterlife, no God (at least not the way most people think of God), etc. then why not just enjoy yourself while you're alive? If you aren't going to end it, then there is absolutely NO REASON to be miserable while you still inhabit this world.

I still struggle with my spirituality because I don't believe ANY of the world religions have the right answer. That has been the most difficult thing for me to deal with in life. You start to ask yourself if all the BS is worth it... what the point of life is, etc. and if you don't have any firm beliefs then it is very easy to take a cynical, hopeless viewpoint. But the only truth is that NOBODY KNOWS what the truth is. Maybe this life is pointless, maybe there is no God. Or maybe there is a God and we're going to hell :p

In the end, there is nothing we will be able to say to you that will get you out of your hole. Nobody can help you but YOU. That is the first thing you have to realize if you really want to change. My mistake was that I waited so long for someone to help me, to say the right thing to snap me out of depression.

Either get busy living or get busy dying.

[EternalBachelor]

Hi Chancer. I really feel for you. I used to feel exactly how you did a few years ago.

The advice the guys have given is excellent and you should really read over it.

You should read a book called "Success through a Positive Mental Attitude" by Napoleon Hill and Clement Stone.

Unfortunately it sounds like you have a negative mental attitude at the moment and are thinking in terms of failure, self-pity, fear etc. What you need to learn is to cast off these negative thoughts and force yourself to act as if you are happy and cheerful, and challenge all your negative thoughts and replace them with positive affirmations.

For a start:

1) Do some charity/volunteer work where you are helping people. This will get your mind off your problems and through helping others you will feel useful and wanted.
2) Take a pride in your appearance. Most people think they are ugly, I can almost guarantee that you are a perfectly normal looking guy that a good proportion of women would find attractive. Get a haircut, wear good clothes, hold your head high
3) Practice talking positively and cheerfully and smiling a lot. Pretend you are happy and you will feel happy. You would be surprised how much more receptive people will be if you smile at them, compliment them and take an interest in them. Most people are scared of rejection and if you go around with a frown on your face then they probably are scared you don't like them
4) Feel the fear and do it anyway. Nobody can tell how scared you are inside-they are too selfabsorbed. Talk to people-they won't bite your head off. Compliment them. When you realise you can get positive responses from people you will feel much better about yourself

[PuertoRican_Lover]

Chancer, there are many people who are 67 years old and never had anything - you have 40 years to do something about it!

Talk with others locally who have the same worries as you and see if you can work together overcoming your woes.

Even if you don't believe in God you still have a non-physical side that should be sought and nourished. We are more than flesh and bone!! Man does not live by bread alone - there is more to life than just surviving!

[chancer357]

There aren't any people around here who have been in this situation. I don't know anyone who never had a relationship of any kind, with any girl who is anywhere near my age.

As long as there are more attractive (which is essentially everyone) people around who are more comfortable in thier own skin who have any level of confidence (also anyone else) then I'm just screwed. I would need to have some girl talk me, and because someone put them up to it. I just don't have any confidence to do anything on my own at this point. I'm well past the point of being able to help myself have anything that would resemble a normal life

[FratAndDiddy]

it's really hard to help you if you keep talking about giving up.
where do you live?
tell us and hopefully someone around that area can get you out of the house and get you started and keep you motivated.