Women are more Loyal than Men - Challenging Hypergamy

[guru1000]

I was well protected by my prenup and it was an amicable divorce so I was totally unscathed.

I do know of a couple of others who did not fare so well even with a prenup.

Very nuanced discussion. Need specific examples, to read the prenups in question, the legal arguments and adjudicated findings as to why the
the prenup was set aside. Specifically what the prenup lacked which merited its vacature.

Courts abide by operating case law of the
State of jurisdiction. If the courts don’t which does happen, court decisions, too, can be set aside by motion to reargue or renew, to modify, or by appeal.

Though this does not mean that strong prenups by the best lawyers are fool proof, as you have other governing factors such as future financial or other behaviors that contradict the prenup, and presiding case law (for the state) changing.

Though, It could be well argued that There is also no foolproof method by not getting married (especially in cohabitating LTRs), even in a non-common law state, as a skilled litigant could attempt to create and enforce a contract of financial responsibility (by promises especially where the evidence demonstrates, e.g. “palimony”) where there was no paper contract and tie up income/assets in abeyance for 5-10 years while incurring costly litigation, even if one ended up victorious.

Becoming a skilled judge of people, you can see which types are more likely to create these litigious encumbrances.

 

[samspade]

"Loyalty" is another one of those words that gets tossed around, like "courage," "morals," etc.

The bottom line is people, male or female, make choices based on what will be the best possible outcome for that person.

Once you're faced with any given choice, all talk of loyalty can go out the window. Aside from loyalty to yourself, the concept is part of the male Disney fantasy.

A person who stays faithful to his partner does it because that's the best option for him or her.

The incentives may have changed over the decades, but the song remains the same. You might believe that people in the past were more loyal, where in reality they were presented with different consequences.

Even a dog might be perceived as loyal, but he's making a choice not to bite the hand that feeds him.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Of course we always hear stories of women cheating... but I have to be honest it seems like most girls I've encountered who are in relationships won't stray.

I like to experiment with women/dating/seduction etc.... Most girls I know 100% or with someone or even recently started dating exclusively all don't seem interested in going out with other men.

I do have a current experiment which is an exception to this though which I'll post about separately but for the most part I agree with what I just wrote above.

I guess I'm somewhat being bold and challenging the hypergamy theory a bit.... Let me break it down simply to what I believe with an example and then hear all your rebuttals

Let's say an attractive female who has had a somewhat stable life has been dating a man who has a modest job... maybe he is retail store manager or something. Let's say an affluent doctor shows interest in her and want to date her... Well the reality I have seen is that the girl will not entertain dating this new doctor... Even if he presses her a bit with constant attention it will be difficult to make her budge.


Thoughts?

"Loyalty" is another one of those words that gets tossed around, like "courage," "morals," etc.

The bottom line is people, male or female, make choices based on what will be the best possible outcome for that person.

Once you're faced with any given choice, all talk of loyalty can go out the window. Aside from loyalty to yourself, the concept is part of the male Disney fantasy.

A person who stays faithful to his partner does it because that's the best option for him or her.

The incentives may have changed over the decades, but the song remains the same. You might believe that people in the past were more loyal, where in reality they were presented with different consequences.

Even a dog might be perceived as loyal, but he's making a choice not to bite the hand that feeds him.

Some folks are loyal. It has nothing to do with options presented to them.

 

[AttackFormation]

"Loyalty" is another one of those words that gets tossed around, like "courage," "morals," etc.

The bottom line is people, male or female, make choices based on what will be the best possible outcome for that person.

Once you're faced with any given choice, all talk of loyalty can go out the window. Aside from loyalty to yourself, the concept is part of the male Disney fantasy.

A person who stays faithful to his partner does it because that's the best option for him or her.

The incentives may have changed over the decades, but the song remains the same. You might believe that people in the past were more loyal, where in reality they were presented with different consequences.

Even a dog might be perceived as loyal, but he's making a choice not to bite the hand that feeds him.

If this theory of human nature were true, no one would ever consider the effects of their actions for anyone other than themselves. This is demonstrably false. And if you broaden the definition to include the positive emotions they feel when considering other as being in their "self interest", then it becomes an utterly meaningless banality.

 

[Machine10033]

Men are more likely to cheat but infinity times more loyal! I have been a scumbag in the past and have cheated. It was for puss... a hot young thing in Yoga pants.... a super attractive college girl.... but I am “loyal” to the girl I am dating. Guys can remain loyal and I think if push comes to shove will defend their wife/girlfriend against the random puss they just hooked up with. Females are completely unloyal and when they cheat they no longer have their spouses back. If we were to die on a horrific crash and our significant other was in the process of a branch swing... they will play the widow card well but be ecstatic inside. Most men would be devestated.

 

[samspade]

If this theory of human nature were true, no one would ever consider the effects of their actions for anyone other than themselves. This is demonstrably false. And if you broaden the definition to include the positive emotions they feel when considering other as being in their "self interest", then it becomes an utterly meaningless banality.

How is it meaningless or false?

 

[guru1000]

If this theory of human nature were true, no one would ever consider the effects of their actions for anyone other than themselves. This is demonstrably false. And if you broaden the definition to include the positive emotions they feel when considering other as being in their "self interest", then it becomes an utterly meaningless banality.

The deeper question is outside of the position emotions of helping others, would most individuals hurt themselves, their well being, and their happiness to be loyal to another? Most won’t in due time. Many will try to be loyal but in due time after betraying their own well being /happiness, they will break.

This does not mean there aren’t people who will compromise their own happiness for loyalty, but this is more of the exception than the rule.

 

[AttackFormation]

How is it meaningless or false?

False because most people consider other peoples' feelings when they make their decisions and feel better if they can make others feel better. People also have the ability to honor concepts like trust, even if they know an action (like cheating) will never be found out and thus never impact another's feelings. Meaningless because if you define doing so as also being within your "self-interest", then all behavior is within one's self-interest simply by definition and it becomes a meaningless term.

The deeper question is outside of the position emotions of helping others, would most individuals hurt themselves, their well being, and their happiness to be loyal to another? Most won’t in due time. Many will try to be loyal but in due time after betraying their own well being /happiness, they will break.

This does not mean there aren’t people who will compromise their own happiness for loyalty, but this is more of the exception than the rule.

For some people, the feeling of loyalty can be its own reward.

 

[guru1000]

For some people, the feeling of loyalty can be its own reward.

Yes, that’s the primary motivation. And it’s contra-position, is to wrong another feels bad and thus does not create happiness.

The tipping point for most is when the happiness of not being loyal is greater than the happiness of being loyal.

The human inclination is to serve thyself. Though, even here, there are exceptions.

 

[Ranger]

Ok. I will weigh in. I’ve never been dumped that I can remember. LA knows my position on his stuff.

It has been my personal observation that women are much smarter than men when it comes to cheating. It’s incredibly well hidden and there’s ALWAYS plausible deniability. Spin doctor supremes.
Work now being the #1 cheat location.
Based on demographic it’s quite possible that her opportunities are very limited.
There’s lots of mid sized towns and small communities that make it more difficult. The risks are too high.

For the most part men are pretty stupid about cheating. They’re not very good at it. They get caught.
For MOST men, women cheating on them is rediculously common. They are stepping stones or clueless but good providers.
It would be intellectually dishonest to compare men on here who are much more aware of the world when 99% of the men are not.

Yes, women cheat more. Typically men invest way more than women into a relationship overall. That sets a different mindset where the man is too invested to cheat.

As well, I’ve been with two women who don’t think kissing and blow jobs count as cheating.

 

[Ranger]

Almost every girl I have hooked up with had a boyfriend. Girls would rather stay with a loser boyfriend then be single.

My experience as well. No exceptions.

 

[AttackFormation]

As well, I’ve been with two women who don’t think kissing and blow jobs count as cheating.

lol, just reading this made me start chuckling, then laughing a bit. I mean this is just unbelievable how a human can fit this into their brain, but nothing surprises me.

 

[AttackFormation]

My experience as well. No exceptions.

So would equally as many men though, they just don't have the abundance to do it. See: https://www.medicaldaily.com/fear-l...y-bad-relationships-both-men-and-women-264270

I personally think this drive to rather be miserable than alone is one of the most pathetic compulsions a person can have, and it has the potential to screw up any resulting children as well.

 

[Ranger]

lol, just reading this made me start chuckling, then laughing a bit. I mean this is just unbelievable how a human can fit this into their brain, but nothing surprises me.

In fact they both serviced me. Sometimes being drunk doesn’t count towards her number. Bj’s for sure don’t count as cheating when drunk.
The justifications and alterations of reality is a well tuned tool.

 

[guru1000]

In fact they both serviced me. Sometimes being drunk doesn’t count towards her number. Bj’s for sure don’t count as cheating when drunk.
The justifications and alterations of reality is a well tuned tool.

Just manipulation. They didn’t inherently believe that.

I would have been insulted by the attempt.

 

[Ranger]

Just manipulation. They didn’t inherently believe that.

We disagree. It has been shown that women especially, can emotionally get through a polygraph much more than men. Men are terrible about getting through one.
Now if she gets emotionally connected to the guy, then yes, we agree. She can’t deny that and will feeely admit it to even her husband or boyfriend when confronted.

 

[Chi Town]

Men and women are only as faithful as there options, most guys who don't cheat don't have the opportunity to cheat, it's not like they have coochie getting thrown at them 24/7 lol.

 

[guru1000]

We disagree. It has been shown that women especially, can emotionally get through a polygraph much more than men. Men are terrible about getting through one.
Now if she gets emotionally connected to the guy, then yes, we agree. She can’t deny that and will feeely admit it to even her husband or boyfriend when confronted.

Any women who tells you that BJs are not cheating is manipulating you buddy. Whether that manipulation is consciously or unconsciously prompted is another subject altogether.

If she thought she could attempt such a feat on me, even if unconsciously prompted, I would be grossly insulted at the attempt.

 

[Ranger]

Any women who tells you that BJs are not cheating is manipulating you buddy. Whether that manipulation is consciously or unconsciously prompted is another subject altogether.

If she thought she could attempt such a feat on me, even if unconsciously prompted, I would be grossly insulted at the attempt.

I think a really big DUH!!! Is appropriate here guru. I was the one getting the BJ’s lol

 

[Spaz]

Loyalty of a woman is highly dependent of the man she's with.

It's the man who elicits loyalty through his leadership.

On their own a woman's only loyalty is to herself.

Don't be deluded into thinking otherwise.