Why The "MGTOW" Movement Has It All Wrong

corrector

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Send a hot 22 year old girl to show up at a MGTOW's door on a Friday night ready to have sex. Would he turn her down?
Likely everyone would because it's too good to be true, therefore there has to be a catch, a bait or a trap. Even if it seemed to be not malicious, then it would pop into mind, who paid her to do this? Or, maybe it's a hallucination. People are not that stupid most of the time.
 

stringpuller

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Comparing arranged marriage to women being property is load of bull
Study history bud. Its 100% true. Varied depending on the culture.
MGOTW movement is nothing more then men giving up rather then adapting to evolution of society. You accept it and make the best of it. Women are no longer property. Like i said they do what they want when they want. In that statement lies the whole of your frame and game.
 

Spaz

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if is a men movement or a revenge movement, what is the diference? they are getting the motivation to try and better they life, be it revenge or rage or fury, as long they use it to better thenselfs I don't see a problem, do you?
I actually do Alfafe.

If it's a revenge movement then the only 'reward' those men will feel is when they do carry out their 'revenge' either aggressively or passively.

Passively is typing their thoughts online and aggressively is acting on it.

It would be wise to remember that acts of violence always starts off with an extreme mindset then graduating to finding like-minded men and turning it into a community or movement

Worse case scenario is they go on a rampage shooting women and girls after typing out their manifesto.

And it has happened.
 

Amante Silvestre

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I knew men many years ago who were paying out $100K/yr. in alimony and child support (and I still know several now who do). I knew another man long ago who was going through such a nasty divorce that when he ended up in the hospital being kept alive by machines, his wife tried to have the plug pulled on him. I too have been left for dead myself by a woman when I was on my own death bed. I watched my own mother pack her bags and leave my father to raise my brother and I so she can run off to another state with some new guy.

I have seen my fair share of the ugly side of women in my life.

Before "MGTOW" was ever a thing, I drew from these experiences and observations, and decided that I would do things for myself very differently from what was typical for men to do.

I refused to marry even as I was approaching my mid-30s; even when I reached a place in my life when I wanted a family and to become a father. And so, instead of seeking the perfect "good woman", instead of nexting, nexting, nexting over every single red flag that could possibly destroy the family life I aspired for, I decided instead to fight the stigma and find myself a woman who was willing and able to bear a child for me without demanding a wedding ring.

And I found a woman who perfectly fit that role. I knew going in this would not be a life-long relationship. I knew then, before the positive pregnancy test, that I would have to be prepared for the probability of raising a child on my own, and I willingly proceeded with a plan to do exactly that.

When it finally did fall apart, I was so well prepared for it that I was able to represent myself in a court room without paying one dime to a lawyer, and I went up against my ex, her female attorney, two women from the state and a female judge.

MGTOW men F*CKING LOVE to refer to the bias court system as an example of why they are "going their own way", but when I faced it, it was powerless. I walked away with everything. No alimony. No child support. Full custody. Everything. This big, bad, meanie feminized court system was toothless and powerless against me.

I found a woman to play a very particular role and nothing more. And when it ended, I never took a step back. I just kept moving forward to find other women to play particular roles.

By then my daughter was 5, out of diapers and formula bottles, and ready to attend school. For domestic duties and help in caring for my daughter, I hired a nanny. For sex I spun plates, and I did so with an "open book" demeanor telling these women that was precisely what I was doing. Each woman knew her role and stuck to that role accordingly. And when it ended, I never took a step back. I just kept moving forward. I hired another nanny when I needed to. I found another plate when I needed to. I never lost in the process, even when arrangements crumbled and these women could no longer or were no longer willing to play the role.

I eventually came to grow somewhat bored of spinning plates and paying out money for a nanny, so I kept my eyes open for a woman who could play another particular role, always knowing it could fail even if I found one and that I would prepare accordingly. I held my ground and maintained for 2 years. Then I met the woman from Hong Kong I recently talked about in my 90 day challenge thread.

She is now cooking, cleaning, caring for my daughter, making rest and relaxation a priority for me, and I am no longer spending large sums of money on a nanny. And of course, she also provides sex. All I had to do was drop the "rotation" to secure it. That was not a compromise. I was already there before I met her. It was something I was already prepared to do when I found something on my terms. And even now, I am fully prepared for this to fail.

One of my "former" plates is more than willing to play the role of a mistress, because some women are just f*cked up. I recognized it. I saw the red flags a long time ago in her. But she played a very specific role perfectly and that is the only role I allowed her to play. So, if this Asian woman were to ever decide she is going to with hold sex for favors, I am only a phone call away from getting what I want. If she were to ever to decide to end things and leave me for whatever reason, I am only a phone call away from hiring another nanny.

Even if all fails, I do not take steps backwards. I just kept moving forward to find other women to play particular roles.

NEVER have I developed a particular distaste for women. I do not complain about them and their ways. I do not complain about the bias in the court system. I can care less about feminism. IDGAF what hypergamy or branch swinging is. It does not effect me. I love women of all kinds. I still adore them. I still celebrate them. I still pursue them on all levels with a sense of excitement. And every woman who played these roles in my life did so willingly. No deception, Nothing against their will.

Why? Because I am just a responsible, hard working man who has always done things on my terms, and I know how to find women willing to mold to those terms without a fight. I didn't and don't need a movement to realize it. I don't need to be bitter with women to get there. I don't feel any need to wrap myself in some righteous cause, or declare how I am changing my ways or fighting society to right many wrongs. I never took on this frame or approach to women in my life so I could "better myself". And above all else, I do not need women to be perfect to do all of these things.

I am just a responsible, hard working man who has always done things on my terms, and it probably isn't a stretch for me to claim that I just might be living the life that many "mgtow" men wished or are aspiring to live.

In order for a man to "go his own way" he must detach from something in some way to do so, and clearly we are talking about women here. I very seriously doubt any mgtow man truly wants to detach himself from women, so in a way, he is doing something against his own will.

I never detached from women. I never did things against my own will. I never had to have a bitter disdain for women in general.

That is the difference, in my opinion, between a man who lives life on his own terms and these men who "go their own way".



Don't mind me, I just enjoy arguing with conventional wisdom.
So do I. I'm not very conventional.
 

corrector

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I am just a responsible, hard working man who has always done things on my terms, and it probably isn't a stretch for me to claim that I just might be living the life that many "mgtow" men wished or are aspiring to live.
Obviously as you've said, you are operating on a MGTOW level.
 

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Amante Silvestre

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Obviously as you've said, you are operating on a MGTOW level.
The way I see it, MGTOW men (who are often operating on a disdain for or in frustration with women) are trying to operate on my level, which I have been doing for roughly 30 years now.

The fundamentals of MGTOW are not discoveries. It isn't something new. Before it all existed, it was simply called living life on your own terms.

The entire MGTOW concept and its rosters are composed largely of men who never knew how to do that. And now they are trying to climb out of the venus fly trap after falling victim to their own inability to live their life in such a way.

I was never trapped, and I have no desire to be lumped in with such a "movement". I would disagree with so many common discussions in those circles that I would get banned from a MGTOW forum for my love of women just as quickly as I would by the women at "Loveshack" in any attempt to help a fellow man.
 

Alvafe

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I actually do Alfafe.

If it's a revenge movement then the only 'reward' those men will feel is when they do carry out their 'revenge' either aggressively or passively.

Passively is typing their thoughts online and aggressively is acting on it.

It would be wise to remember that acts of violence always starts off with an extreme mindset then graduating to finding like-minded men and turning it into a community or movement

Worse case scenario is they go on a rampage shooting women and girls after typing out their manifesto.

And it has happened.
here is the thing, I did started the whole getting better and started to undertand woman, and going to the gym and all that as a revenge for the girl who did bring me here, a revenge of sort of her knowing what she did pass up, but then the more I did undertand woman, and fixed my life, I let that go, it wasn't worth my time, when I started I was full of rage, on her on me for failing and all that, I let that all go.

hence why I don't think its bad, you need to vent and using your rage, revenge seeking in a way you improve will eventually lead you to a better undertanding.

when MGTOW started was more of a thing you do and concentrate for yourself, never making woman the center, you are the center, woman is not meaning, not the answers, they are nothing and tend to add nothing, you yes is something you is who should give meaning be something great, or mediocre, all that is in your reach, you should never put yourself on someone else hands only you have your best interest in mind.

sure there is always people who will try to divert or perverse an Idea, you can try to shame it, or learn to deal with it and make good use

true I consider shaming people behavior a female trait, you are weak, so you need to force people who are showing greater strenght and overcoming they limitation, in a way you are confortable and preventing a direct confront, hence the whole social conditioning and shaming, with BTW is what most of us here try to fight back

The way I see it, MGTOW men (who are often operating on a disdain for or in frustration with women) are trying to operate on my level, which I have been doing for roughly 30 years now.

The fundamentals of MGTOW are not discoveries. It isn't something new. Before it all existed, it was simply called living life on your own terms.

The entire MGTOW concept and its rosters are composed largely of men who never knew how to do that. And now they are trying to climb out of the venus fly trap after falling victim to their own inability to live their life in such a way.

I was never trapped, and I have no desire to be lumped in with such a "movement". I would disagree with so many common discussions in those circles that I would get banned from a MGTOW forum for my love of women just as quickly as I would by the women at "Loveshack" in any attempt to help a fellow man.
then don't? you are who you are, if you don't belive you are not a MGTOW, then don't, try to guide people for a better place or explain your point of view, if they ban you for it, then its not you problem its then, hence why we call incels, btw INCELS != MGTOW, sure the incells could call then mgtow but they are not, they don't improve they just rage without direction


what I see your "Love" of woman is using then for fun, making use of then to better your life, its more like I love eating then I love then for what they really are, you understand and love what they can do for you
 
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DEEZEDBRAH

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“Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without.” -Buddha
Mate, agree to disagree. I concur. The mgtow approach is early stages but if i was to quarrel with the approach, its not war I'm against. Its not drastic enough.

If someone put their their hands on my wife, mother, daughter, son, etc i would crush their skull without remorse. If i wasn't able to physically, i would end them by any means necessary. No hesitation.

If mgtow is serious, go full blown PROJET MAYHEM on the world. Guns blazing. If i had a son or daughter, the state would take them from my cold dead hands. I would go out on my ****ing shield.

If I am against anything about mgtow, its that they are soft. Not enough war. Strap up. Blow something up. Crying on YouTube is a waste. Go big or go home.


I don't date women. I smash or next. Repeat. I don't believe in monogamy, marriage or cohabitation. I have no use of the state in my relationship or any involvement.

I cannot fix the culture nor marriage which women destroyed.


The incidence of completed suicide is vastly higher among males than females among all age groups in most of the world. As of 2015, almost two-thirds of worldwide suicides(representing about 1.5% of all deaths) are committed by men.
Men turn the gun inwardly. The outlier being, Chris benoit like situation. Others where he is cucked and he zeros out everything.


Mgtow is a drop in the bucket but its not far enough. I would go out in a shoot out if someone tries to steal or kidnap my kid. Over my cold dead body.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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I knew men many years ago who were paying out $100K/yr. in alimony and child support (and I still know several now who do). I knew another man long ago who was going through such a nasty divorce that when he ended up in the hospital being kept alive by machines, his wife tried to have the plug pulled on him. I too have been left for dead myself by a woman when I was on my own death bed. I watched my own mother pack her bags and leave my father to raise my brother and I so she can run off to another state with some new guy.

I have seen my fair share of the ugly side of women in my life.

Before "MGTOW" was ever a thing, I drew from these experiences and observations, and decided that I would do things for myself very differently from what was typical for men to do.

I refused to marry even as I was approaching my mid-30s; even when I reached a place in my life when I wanted a family and to become a father. And so, instead of seeking the perfect "good woman", instead of nexting, nexting, nexting over every single red flag that could possibly destroy the family life I aspired for, I decided instead to fight the stigma and find myself a woman who was willing and able to bear a child for me without demanding a wedding ring.

And I found a woman who perfectly fit that role. I knew going in this would not be a life-long relationship. I knew then, before the positive pregnancy test, that I would have to be prepared for the probability of raising a child on my own, and I willingly proceeded with a plan to do exactly that.

When it finally did fall apart, I was so well prepared for it that I was able to represent myself in a court room without paying one dime to a lawyer, and I went up against my ex, her female attorney, two women from the state and a female judge.

MGTOW men F*CKING LOVE to refer to the bias court system as an example of why they are "going their own way", but when I faced it, it was powerless. I walked away with everything. No alimony. No child support. Full custody. Everything. This big, bad, meanie feminized court system was toothless and powerless against me.

I found a woman to play a very particular role and nothing more. And when it ended, I never took a step back. I just kept moving forward to find other women to play particular roles.

By then my daughter was 5, out of diapers and formula bottles, and ready to attend school. For domestic duties and help in caring for my daughter, I hired a nanny. For sex I spun plates, and I did so with an "open book" demeanor telling these women that was precisely what I was doing. Each woman knew her role and stuck to that role accordingly. And when it ended, I never took a step back. I just kept moving forward. I hired another nanny when I needed to. I found another plate when I needed to. I never lost in the process, even when arrangements crumbled and these women could no longer or were no longer willing to play the role.

I eventually came to grow somewhat bored of spinning plates and paying out money for a nanny, so I kept my eyes open for a woman who could play another particular role, always knowing it could fail even if I found one and that I would prepare accordingly. I held my ground and maintained for 2 years. Then I met the woman from Hong Kong I recently talked about in my 90 day challenge thread.

She is now cooking, cleaning, caring for my daughter, making rest and relaxation a priority for me, and I am no longer spending large sums of money on a nanny. And of course, she also provides sex. All I had to do was drop the "rotation" to secure it. That was not a compromise. I was already there before I met her. It was something I was already prepared to do when I found something on my terms. And even now, I am fully prepared for this to fail.

One of my "former" plates is more than willing to play the role of a mistress, because some women are just f*cked up. I recognized it. I saw the red flags a long time ago in her. But she played a very specific role perfectly and that is the only role I allowed her to play. So, if this Asian woman were to ever decide she is going to with hold sex for favors, I am only a phone call away from getting what I want. If she were to ever to decide to end things and leave me for whatever reason, I am only a phone call away from hiring another nanny.

Even if all fails, I do not take steps backwards. I just kept moving forward to find other women to play particular roles.

NEVER have I developed a particular distaste for women. I do not complain about them and their ways. I do not complain about the bias in the court system. I can care less about feminism. IDGAF what hypergamy or branch swinging is. It does not effect me. I love women of all kinds. I still adore them. I still celebrate them. I still pursue them on all levels with a sense of excitement. And every woman who played these roles in my life did so willingly. No deception, Nothing against their will.

Why? Because I am just a responsible, hard working man who has always done things on my terms, and I know how to find women willing to mold to those terms without a fight. I didn't and don't need a movement to realize it. I don't need to be bitter with women to get there. I don't feel any need to wrap myself in some righteous cause, or declare how I am changing my ways or fighting society to right many wrongs. I never took on this frame or approach to women in my life so I could "better myself". And above all else, I do not need women to be perfect to do all of these things.

I am just a responsible, hard working man who has always done things on my terms, and it probably isn't a stretch for me to claim that I just might be living the life that many "mgtow" men wished or are aspiring to live.

In order for a man to "go his own way" he must detach from something in some way to do so, and clearly we are talking about women here. I very seriously doubt any mgtow man truly wants to detach himself from women, so in a way, he is doing something against his own will.

I never detached from women. I never did things against my own will. I never had to have a bitter disdain for women in general.

That is the difference, in my opinion, between a man who lives life on his own terms and these men who "go their own way".





So do I. I'm not very conventional.
You have to realise that you are an outlier not the norm.

Its like when women pedal NAWALT or scream misogyny. Not an argument. AWALT. A simple outlier does not excuse the following nor suggest men should marry.

Mate, i am happy you got out free and clear. Thats not even 1% of the nightmare that is divorce rape.

There's a abundance of men not here to tell their story after painting the walls with their insides. The world suicide stat is 2/3 of men. It is in all likelihood caused by zeroed out, divorce rape and cucked.

Bachelorhood ftw
 

corrector

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then don't? you are who you are, if you don't belive you are not a MGTOW, then don't, try to guide people for a better place or explain your point of view, if they ban you for it, then its not you problem its then, hence why we call incels, btw INCELS != MGTOW, sure the incells could call then mgtow but they are not, they don't improve they just rage without direction
Do you know why Amente Silvestre is MGTOW and not monk-mode MGTOW? It's because mathematically he just has more attention and therefore options from women because he has the looks. If he didn't have the numbers or options to back up not dealing with women on HIS terms then he'd either be forced to deal with them on their terms or remain single or (monk-mode MTGOW). If you don't have the option to even deal with them on their terms then that would sound more incel-like.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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Do you know why Amente Silvestre is MGTOW and not monk-mode MGTOW? It's because mathematically he just has more attention and therefore options from women because he has the looks. If he didn't have the numbers or options to back up not dealing with women on HIS terms then he'd either be forced to deal with them on their terms or remain single or (monk-mode MTGOW). If you don't have the option to even deal with them on their terms then that would sound more incel-like.
The spectrum of mgtow is wide. Similarly, red pill or pua all have a spectrum of lifestyle choices. The following continue to fragment as Peterson says. By default, if you don't marry or cohabitation, you can technically be called mgtow. I don't identify with the term nor do i call myself one.

The problem with mgtow is, its not drastic enough. The ones checked out cannot compete either not aesthetic or post divorce rape. Before no fault divorce, before feminism, and the welfare state that pedals resources to single mother victimhood, a woman not being a good wife is just ghosted. It was about property. A man now signs away his resources current and future earnings plus sexual access.

Nothing could ever be more retarded. That's the ultimate power play. On contrast, a man's ability to date hotter and younger is the pushback on hypergamy. IMHO men should exercise the following pursuit. Marriage and cohabitation is the end of dread game which is a ideal checkmate to keep woman in line.

Its nonexistent in a marriage. You can either bang her or bang around on her. I rather bachelor life.

I am open to solutions but 25yrs, a life time of game, you can still. Watch RooshV vblog across North America but no wife despite his best efforts.
 

Amante Silvestre

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You have to realise that you are an outlier not the norm.
Which is why mgtow is an ineffectual movement. I should not be an outlier.

How many men can say they have lived for several decades under this romanticized, ideal, perfect definition of what mgtow stands for when waxing poetically on a forum, but also without having ever been run through the grinder to realize it and live it?

Not enough.

I’m an outlier because mgtow has it wrong. It’s ranks are growing because it has been inefficient. It’s a support/revenge group, and if people were honest with what it really is, then i would leave it alone.

I have sat beside men who have had their guts splattered upon the wall, consoled them through thoughts of suicide or killing their wives. I have raised thousands of dollars for them to help with legal fees or medical bills. I would never tell these men to suck it up and find an inner peace. Those men do need to fight.

But to sell it as a cause aimed at saving men from the modern evils of feminism...I think it fails. It draws in and appeals mostly to men who have already been chewed up in some way by a woman and the system they are “at war” with. Who are they saving?

What mgtow lacks almost entirely is the wisdom and experience a man needs at a young stage of adulthood to properly administrate to women, plural in many cases, the various, practical and reasonable roles in a man’s life who chooses to live on his own terms.

Mgtow followers believe they are living on their own terms, but the truth is that they were forced to come to this way too late in life because they didn’t know how to structure this lifestyle on their own to begin with.

This is why they all b*tch that a good woman is so hard to find. Unicorn. Impossible! They seek one woman to serve all roles, which can be better served by multiple women in different ways. There are enough willing women out there who do not need to be duped into it.

The “war” can be won without a shot fired, but mgtow is too fixated on the evils of women to realize it.
 

Amante Silvestre

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MGTOW-Lite
Sounds like a cheap, watered down beer.

Mgtow-lite...mgtow-ultra...low calorie mgtow... whatever.

Do you know why you can break mgtow down into 31 different flavors?

Because it doesn’t have a solid identity.

The one theme that ties them all together in a family of mgtow flavors is so simple and fundamental that when distilled all the way down, it isn’t a movement or a cause or a mission.

It doesn’t save anyone.

It doesn’t “fight the power”.

It doesn’t change laws.

It is simply an individualistic choice based solely on what appeals and what does not to a man looking at the world realistically. Each man will have his own vision and preferences. Each his own reasons. There is nothing there to build a bullet point list of attributes and ideals that define a multitude of men collectively coming together for a unifying cause....because it is not.


Mgtow, red pill, blue pill....it all leads to the fractional thinking that leads men to classify and compartment other men, including the Dalai lama, who would most likely be pegged as the 27th flavor of mgtow: the “volcel mgtow in monk mode”.

Group think. Conformity. Bullet point and talking points.

Hardly the attributes of men who think and live on their own terms.
 

Spaz

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here is the thing, I did started the whole getting better and started to undertand woman, and going to the gym and all that as a revenge for the girl who did bring me here, a revenge of sort of her knowing what she did pass up, but then the more I did undertand woman, and fixed my life, I let that go, it wasn't worth my time, when I started I was full of rage, on her on me for failing and all that, I let that all go.

hence why I don't think its bad, you need to vent and using your rage, revenge seeking in a way you improve will eventually lead you to a better undertanding.

when MGTOW started was more of a thing you do and concentrate for yourself, never making woman the center, you are the center, woman is not meaning, not the answers, they are nothing and tend to add nothing, you yes is something you is who should give meaning be something great, or mediocre, all that is in your reach, you should never put yourself on someone else hands only you have your best interest in mind.

sure there is always people who will try to divert or perverse an Idea, you can try to shame it, or learn to deal with it and make good use
Let's use an analogy as an example on how mindsets carries a man well into his future dealings.

For this I'll use a business deal or if you like a personal deal between friends.

X : Alfafe, borrow me a $1000 bucks, I'll pay you back in a weeks time @30% interest, you'll make $300 doing nothing and you'd be helping me with my business as I'm short of cash to purchase some sure thing.

Alfafe: Sure, I trust you, we're buddies and I could use that extra $300.

After a week X doesn't pay up.

Alfafe would be upset, yes he could rage and bemoan his fate for trusting his buddy X, allow it to consume him and his future dealings with ALL friends.

Yes most people would understand it, even expect you to act as such, since X cheated you.

But then ur other friend Spaz says = Alfafe you should be glad, extremely glad that it's only a $1000 and not $10,000 or $1,000,000.

Alfafe counters by saying cheating is cheating and thinks that Spaz is not being sensitive.

But then Spaz says;

Nay buddy, the way I see it is you BOUGHT him cheaply, for a $1000 you now know X.

Thanks to you we all know X is VALUED at $1000, that's his WORTH.

And you should feel lucky that it's only $1000 and not a $1,000,000.

A $1000 is easily earned back.
 
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Amante Silvestre

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Do you know why Amente Silvestre is MGTOW and not monk-mode MGTOW? It's because mathematically he just has more attention and therefore options from women because he has the looks. If he didn't have the numbers or options to back up not dealing with women on HIS terms then he'd either be forced to deal with them on their terms or remain single or (monk-mode MTGOW). If you don't have the option to even deal with them on their terms then that would sound more incel-like.

Every time I see a comment in the forum about me along these lines, I just have to chuckle.

In my teens and 20s, I was painfully average in looks. I had no sense of style. I wouldn’t know a good hair cut if it bit me on the ass. I was also pretty lanky and a little goofy. I had no game at all. But one thing I really had going for me was social status as a musician. It was enough for me to be selective and care free with attractive women, and even with the countless stupid mistakes I made with them along the way, I still managed to survive on options. Looks had nothing to do with it.

When a I threw the towel in on the music industry, I also forfeited the status. It was back to square one with me. I had nothing really going for me, and there were a few years when I did struggle like many men here do.

But I rebuilt myself. I learned how to dress better. Get the right haircut. I learned a little about how to act around women when that status that once made it so easy wasn’t there any more. And man, did I make a lot of mistakes in all of those areas that when I look back on now I wonder wtf I was ever thinking.

Things got better. But it wasn’t great.

I started to hit the gym. I put in a lot of hard work. I started to take off with a good career. The money started to come in. I developed a swag, of sorts.

It took a f*ck ton of effort to get where I am now, and not without a whole lot of failure in the process.

And that’s why i laugh. Because I can clearly see when someone chooses to see me as being naturally gifted and blessed with a life most men don’t have; how it’s the easiest way for them to drill a point on their own misfortunes of not being “blessed with options”. How I just don’t understand and can’t identify with men who aren’t so lucky to win that “genetic lottery”.

I wish it were true that I’ve always had it easy. God knows on what level I could be operating on now if it was always like that for me.
 

corrector

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Every time I see a comment in the forum about me along these lines, I just have to chuckle.
Wait a minute. You have put up various avatars on your posts. Those are not pictures of you then? Not even the one before?

Amante Silvestre said:
When a I threw the towel in on the music industry, I also forfeited the status. It was back to square one with me. I had nothing really going for me, and there were a few years when I did struggle like many men here do.
So you were like incel in those few years?

Amante Silvestre said:
But I rebuilt myself. I learned how to dress better. Get the right haircut. I learned a little about how to act around women when that status that once made it so easy wasn’t there any more. And man, did I make a lot of mistakes in all of those areas that when I look back on now I wonder wtf I was ever thinking.
How did you act differently with women when you lost status? Nothing was hardwired in your brain from the positive experiences you had when you had status? What were some of the mistakes you made when you were learning to act around women?

How would you seduce a random cashier at a store and take her home with you if you were going to do that the next time you went to the store? Have you done that before?

Amante Silvestre said:
Things got better. But it wasn’t great.

I started to hit the gym. I put in a lot of hard work. I started to take off with a good career. The money started to come in. I developed a swag, of sorts.

It took a f*ck ton of effort to get where I am now, and not without a whole lot of failure in the process.
What was the direction of this effort? Was it effort in the GYM? Effort looking for the right job? Effort within the job itself? Were you treated unfairly at any point in the process where it would undermine the relationship between hard work and results?

Amante Silvestre said:
And that’s why i laugh. Because I can clearly see when someone chooses to see me as being naturally gifted and blessed with a life most men don’t have; how it’s the easiest way for them to drill a point on their own misfortunes of not being “blessed with options”. How I just don’t understand and can’t identify with men who aren’t so lucky to win that “genetic lottery”.
I don't know what pics you are posting on your own avatars. You put up Chad-looking/Chad-light looking pics then people are going to make assumptions.

Amante Silvestre" said:
I wish it were true that I’ve always had it easy. God knows on what level I could be operating on now if it was always like that for me.
Like I said, if you put up certain avatar pics next to your name, people might make certain assumptions that are not true. I can't assume everyone's avatar pics portray themselves, and obviously it looks like I made a mistake here.
 

stormrider

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I think I know what @Amante Silvestre means. If you try to renounce your desire for women (something that is built into your dna) you will just end up developing some weird imbalance and it will trickle to other parts of your life. As much as i preach stoicism and purpose, I cannot help but include women as part of things I want to conquer. Not being able to will always leave a void. You weren’t created by nature to live in a vacuum.

You were meant to be masculine and dominant so that you could polarize the feminine. And sometimes this requires you to be fvcking great.

No matter how much you suck, get back up and get to work. There are quadruple amputees with significant others and kids. No one has an excuse.
 

Amante Silvestre

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Wait a minute. You have put up various avatars on your posts. Those are not pictures of you then? Not even the one before?
Those were all actual photos of me. I’ve never used a picture of someone else. But I didn’t always look like I do in those more recent pics.

You’d be surprised at how much a few more or a few less pounds, healthier eating habits, less alcohol, cutting out drugs, better skin, better hair, better clothes, physical fitness, etc can really change the overall appearance of a man over years of positive effort.

How did you act differently with women when you lost status? Nothing was hardwired in your brain from the positive experiences you had when you had status? What were some of the mistakes you made when you were learning to act around women?

How would you seduce a random cashier at a store and take her home with you if you were going to do that the next time you went to the store? Have you done that before?
Women overlooked a lot of the mistakes or the social awkwardness when I had that status. Those mistakes were seen as cute or quirky a lot of times.

Not so much the case when the status was gone. I had to lose the status to realize how much damage these mistakes could really have.

But when I did have the status as a musician, I couldn’t really operate at that level with women everywhere I went, such as with a random cashier. But I did really well in social circles, music venues college, or anywhere where people in my scene hung out and where I was likely to be well known. I didn’t have to conquer the world of women. Just had to be dominate in one niche.

So you were like incel in those few years?
I wouldn’t say that, but It wasn’t unusual for me to go 6 months at times without a girl. And on a few occasions when I did hook up, they were not at the level of attraction I was so used to when I had the status. I had to climb my way back up to those women by developing new strengths and qualities.

You don’t have to have it all and be top dog in every single facet that attracts women. You just need to be strong in just a few areas at most. Got status, looks can slack a little. Got looks, status can lack a bit. Got a glowing personality and charm, average looks and status won’t kill you, etc.

What was the direction of this effort? Was it effort in the GYM? Effort looking for the right job? Effort within the job itself? Were you treated unfairly at any point in the process where it would undermine the relationship between hard work and results?
There was no one focus. I put effort into everything. All of those things. Everything was just trial by fire and I stuck with what got me the best results. And I have been refining and maturing my ways and further developing greater focuses ever since.

Treated unfairly? I don’t think so. But sometimes I would burn out, lose motivation and question why I was doing it all. But I always found a way to keep going because I wasn’t content with who or what I was. I always wanted more for myself.

Like I said, if you put up certain avatar pics next to your name, people might make certain assumptions that are not true.
I will admit people would not be wrong to assume I might have things a little easier because of looks. But they would be wrong if they were to assume I can’t identify with anyone who isn’t so “lucky”.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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Which is why mgtow is an ineffectual movement. I should not be an outlier.
Agreed. And yet, you are. Meaning, a astronomical amount of men were divorce raped.

There's a minimalist YouTuber TechLead. Dudes a minimalist. Not a mgtow.

In a recent vblog, he elaborated on being divorce raped. 3k child support USD. That's like a 50k salary for a child.

What percentage of the following is spent on the child? The answer is a miniscule amount. The resources are her parade back onto the carousel. Its enforcement of cuckoldry and on your buck.

Its absolutely absurd. A cuck will cry and scream resentment as one did in another thread. Not an argument umen.its pragmatism if anything. I cannot stress enough Molyneux arguing that, you know who the protected class is by who you cannot criticise. Again, male feminists even on the forum or others jump to the defense of evil female.

Rollos point of hypergamy being the leading cause for abortions and women getting up on arms about the right to murder children. It's evil. The choice of what child lives and proliferate the gene pool and which don't. That's dark. The truth being, a significant portion are genocidal.

How many men can say they have lived for several decades under this romanticized, ideal, perfect definition of what mgtow stands for when waxing poetically on a forum, but also without having ever been run through the grinder to realize it and live it?
I am following. Try again. Are you arguing the need of going through the ringer of divorce rape or someone bpd in order to have a opinion on the matter?

I don't think mgtow is a solution nor far enough. When the state turns on a man, extracts his resources and children, its full blown act of war. Nothing short of rambo will suffice.

Mgtow dude can't compete. The SMP is indifferent. GYOW is irrelevant.

If more men are red pill, refrain from cohabitation and marriage, things can change. Reform could happen. Most guys are soft and simp the sec attention comes from a wall nearly post wall. It is pathetic.


Not enough.

I’m an outlier because mgtow has it wrong. It’s ranks are growing because it has been inefficient. It’s a support/revenge group, and if people were honest with what it really is, then i would leave it alone.
Outlier for not getting divorce raped. Not for the perspective you hold on mgtow lulz.

have sat beside men who have had their guts splattered upon the wall, consoled them through thoughts of suicide or killing their wives. I have raised thousands of dollars for them to help with legal fees or medical bills. I would never tell these men to suck it up and find an inner peace. Those men do need to fight.

But to sell it as a cause aimed at saving men from the modern evils of feminism...I think it fails. It draws in and appeals mostly to men who have already been chewed up in some way by a woman and the system they are “at war” with. Who are they saving?
Again, its not the solution NOR FAR ENOUGH.

What mgtow lacks almost entirely is the wisdom and experience a man needs at a young stage of adulthood to properly administrate to women, plural in many cases, the various, practical and reasonable roles in a man’s life who chooses to live on his own terms.
We are a generation of men raised by women. - TD

Banishment of the fathers. If i were to guess most of the guys had no fathers or male rolr models.

Mgtow followers believe they are living on their own terms, but the truth is that they were forced to come to this way too late in life because they didn’t know how to structure this lifestyle on their own to begin with.
The guys didnt go through the fire nor put the work in. RooshV is but its not going very well.

This is why they all b*tch that a good woman is so hard to find. Unicorn. Impossible! They seek one woman to serve all roles, which can be better served by multiple women in different ways. There are enough willing women out there who do not need to be duped into it.
I agree with the red pill lulz. There is no good woman. Its just women.

The “war” can be won without a shot fired, but mgtow is too fixated on the evils of women to realize it.
But Change nor reform is to follow without any war or pushback. Peaceful protest has done nothing because nobody cares. Not even men until divorce raped.

I don't know how to fix society nor the culture. I don't care to.

Bachelor life, no commitment, marriage or cohabitation is a start. I think men need to be aware of what they sacrifice assuming they actually nut up and get girls.

The end result is always dead beat father. I grew up knowing a guy who blew 50k on lawyer fees after the ex ran through life savings. It wasnt until her drug use caught up with her that she lost her access. It took being a addict for buddy to get his kids. That's ****ed.


If you already have kids, if i were you I'd just bang the drum without mercy or restraints. Troll on sight the sec anybody dares to play house.

Herein lies the collapse of a plate and even rotations (at times). Why staying on the grind is a must. Sooner or later, women all want to build a nest and play house. I am not that guy. Never have been nor will I ever be.

I picked up a new chick and pulled. Ran into her again with her man.

Monogamy...

One man's trash, another man's treasure.

 
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