Why I hate online dating

oc16

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Matched with some chick on Hinge. I'm 47 and she is 41. She is out of state visiting her parents and asked if she could call me (we've been texting a couple of days)

She is already being aggressive (turn off) and the whole 30 minutes she was just talking about herself and I felt like her therapist. I finally had to cut her off and told her I had to make lunch.

This has happened a few other times with online women

Atleast when you meet somebody off dating sites, you know there is an attraction right off the bat.

I would so rather meet somebody in person, hate this online nonsense.
 

Gamisch

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Matched with some chick on Hinge. I'm 47 and she is 41. She is out of state visiting her parents and asked if she could call me (we've been texting a couple of days)

She is already being aggressive (turn off) and the whole 30 minutes she was just talking about herself and I felt like her therapist. I finally had to cut her off and told her I had to make lunch.

This has happened a few other times with online women

Atleast when you meet somebody off dating sites, you know there is an attraction right off the bat.

I would so rather meet somebody in person, hate this online nonsense.
Life has her funny ways of "punishing " us for our greatest desires.

OLD should be an additional part of your overall dating life, but never the main thing. You gotta go out into the real world and make it happen there. No way around it ..

The problem is you'll be fed up with the next one before you even know who it is! My new main question to topics such as this one is:

What did you do before OLD existed?
 

oc16

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Life has her funny ways of "punishing " us for our greatest desires.

OLD should be an additional part of your overall dating life, but never the main thing. You gotta go out into the real world and make it happen there. No way around it ..

The problem is you'll be fed up with the next one before you even know who it is! My new main question to topics such as this one is:

What did you do before OLD existed?
I still try and make contact with women the old fashioned way.
 
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She is already being aggressive (turn off) and the whole 30 minutes she was just talking about herself and I felt like her therapist.
My heart weeps for you.

Forty-seven and you still don't know how to shut down a whiner?
 

Solomon

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Matched with some chick on Hinge. I'm 47 and she is 41. She is out of state visiting her parents and asked if she could call me (we've been texting a couple of days)

She is already being aggressive (turn off) and the whole 30 minutes she was just talking about herself and I felt like her therapist. I finally had to cut her off and told her I had to make lunch.

This has happened a few other times with online women

Atleast when you meet somebody off dating sites, you know there is an attraction right off the bat.

I would so rather meet somebody in person, hate this online nonsense.
The whole therapy thing is such a turn-off, I was talking to this 28-year-old recently who lost her virginity to her ex-boyfriend and in our first convo she started complaining about him not being emotionally available but wanting blow jobs. Needless to say I was turned of instantly

I've noticed in the last few years that SOME women tend to overshare a lot, don't get me wrong I have done it too but there are certain shyt you don't wanna hear about especially if you just matched with someone less than 20 minutes ago them talking about their ex-boyfriends and stuff. This oversharing syndrome is a real thing, and the next thing you know you playing therapist. I have enough problems of my own right now don't need you to trauma dump on me
 

SW15

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Matched with some chick on Hinge. I'm 47 and she is 41. She is out of state visiting her parents and asked if she could call me (we've been texting a couple of days)
If she lives out of state and she's visiting her parents, this is a bad situation for any longer term arrangement right away. This is part of you living in a TERRIBLE location for a single male and refusing to fix your location problem.

There are a lot of bad locations for a single male. It can be argued that there are more bad than good ones.

This woman is 41. It means she was born in 1982 or 1983, making her an early Millennial. Early Millennials are a gray area for using telephones for voice conversation. Early Millennials are old enough to have been around for a time before text-based communications were dominant. When this 1982 or 1983 born woman was in high school, almost no one had cellular phones. When she was 18-22 is when cell phones (pre-smartphone cell phones) started to become more common.

Later Millennials (born after 1987 or so) often try to avoid voice conversations. The 1982-1986 Millennials can go either way on that. You got someone that is not only open to using the phone, but actually requested it. In bigger city dating since the early 2010s, I've never been asked by an early Millennial if she could call me. I have found some earlier Millennials open to phone conversation but it's a challenge to even find that.

Atleast when you meet somebody off dating sites, you know there is an attraction right off the bat.

I would so rather meet somebody in person, hate this online nonsense.
I think it is better to start interactions through a real life method as well. It can be difficult to meet people in person, especially for 30s/40s men dating women near their own age (that's most 30s/40s men).

What did you do before OLD existed?
OP is 47. Online dating websites were not de-stigmatized until his late 20s and swipe apps didn't exist until he was 35. He would have had to do stuff in real life in the past. He probably had to do some combination of using social circles to find dates and approaching strangers.

I think that as you age and engage in OLD with these older women, you need to consider there's a reason that they're still single at their age...
This is a good point. The typical late 30s/early 40s woman hasn't been sitting around doing nothing for the last 20 years. The typical late 30s/early 40s woman has been living her life and interacting with men. Many of them have previous marriages and children, even with the current crop of late 30s/early 40s women now being Millennials who have had the reputation of having fewer children and being less likely to be married.

If a man now is meeting late 30s/early 40s women who are childless, there's a good chance that she's been married at least once, even as a Millennial. Even if she hasn't been married, she's probably had some multiple year relationships during the last 20 years.

Relationships fail for a variety of reasons. Some of those are related to the woman and some are not.

It's a good idea to feel some concern about a single late 30s/early 40s woman. Most men (even blue pill, beta males) will wonder what sort of baggage she has at that age if she's unattached and seeking new partners.
 
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I've noticed in the last few years that SOME women tend to overshare a lot, don't get me wrong I have done it too but there are certain shyt you don't wanna hear about especially if you just matched with someone less than 20 minutes ago them talking about their ex-boyfriends and stuff.
Women in general consider it a red flag if their date starts whining about his ex-girlfriends, especially if they're being denigrating, so for women to do this to their male dates is hypocritical.

When people start whining about past relationships, I mostly ask them if they're in therapy. If they're not, I tell them I'm not a therapist. If they are in therapy, I tell them to keep that stuff in the therapist's office.
 

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If she lives out of state and she's visiting her parents, this is a bad situation for any longer term arrangement right away. This is part of you living in a TERRIBLE location for a single male and refusing to fix your location problem.

There are a lot of bad locations for a single male. It can be argued that there are more bad than good ones.
Yepppp
 

Slowhandluke

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Relationships fail for a variety of reasons. Some of those are related to the woman and some are not.

It's a good idea to feel some concern about a single late 30s/early 40s woman. Most men (even blue pill, beta males) will wonder what sort of baggage she has at that age if she's unattached and seeking new partners.
Society has changed. I conjecture, it's not a "you problem", but the "woman's problem". Life for a man hasn't changed that much for generations. We work, we provide.. we pursue.

Life for women has changed a lot more. They are allowed to sleep around.. They are given the illusion that they have many choices of men (online dating, media, books, etc.. for example the phrase "never settle..", "you go queen", etc..) women don't have a lot of choices; the ratio of men to women have been fairly equal and constant. Women were also are given the ability to work and be "independent" -- "don't need no man", etc...

At the end of the day, don't worry about western women. If they don't want to participate in a relationship because of "reasons", it's up to them. There isn't really anything an average man can do. High expectations, waiting for chad, etc.. etc.. whatever.. It's not the OP's problem, but western women in general.
 

FlexpertHamilton

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This has happened a few other times with online women

Atleast when you meet somebody off dating sites, you know there is an attraction right off the bat.

I would so rather meet somebody in person, hate this online nonsense.
This isn't a problem unique to women on OLD - most single women in their late 30s or 40s are nutjobs on antidepressants, no matter where you meet them.
 

BillyPilgrim

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Matched with some chick on Hinge. I'm 47 and she is 41. She is out of state visiting her parents and asked if she could call me (we've been texting a couple of days)

She is already being aggressive (turn off) and the whole 30 minutes she was just talking about herself and I felt like her therapist. I finally had to cut her off and told her I had to make lunch.

This has happened a few other times with online women

Atleast when you meet somebody off dating sites, you know there is an attraction right off the bat.

I would so rather meet somebody in person, hate this online nonsense.
Always use a false time constraint with these older OLD phone-calling women. Also, these calls must be earned. if there's no sexually-charged flirtation before the phone call request/demand, I am perpetually either at the store or driving my car until such sexual flirtation occurs.
 
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SW15

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This isn't a problem unique to women on OLD - most single women in their late 30s or 40s are nutjobs on antidepressants, no matter where you meet them.
It can also be difficult to meet unattached women in their late 30s and early 40s through real life methods as well.

Life for a man hasn't changed that much for generations. We work, we provide.. we pursue.
This is true in simplistic terms. When it is examined in more detail, it's difficult to make a claim that men's lives haven't changed. Fewer men are doing manual labor. More men are going to college and doing white collar work. More men are sexless or borderline incel than in past generations. That has consequences. Women have also made advances in the white collar workspace that have impacted men. It is more difficult for men to be provider males with women competing with us (and often winning) in the white collar workspace. Additionally, in the sexual marketplace, the provider male is less valued. Women have replaced the provider male with either their own white collar jobs (true for women middle class + with bachelor's degrees or higher) or by collecting government benefits (lower class women).

Life for women has changed a lot more. They are allowed to sleep around.. They are given the illusion that they have many choices of men (online dating, media, books, etc.. for example the phrase "never settle..", "you go queen", etc..) women don't have a lot of choices; the ratio of men to women have been fairly equal and constant. Women were also are given the ability to work and be "independent" -- "don't need no man", etc...
Women's lives have changed a lot since the rise of Second Wave Feminism in the 1960s.

It is debatable whether the choices in mating are more illusionary or real. I think they are more real. A 25 year old woman in 2024 can easily have 200+ men vying from electronic methods. A 25 year old in 1995 didn't have that. The 25 year old in 1995 had whatever men she met through real life methods (her social circle, going to nightlife venues, and whoever approached her in non-bar venues). Technology does provide women with more sexual and relational options as compared to the pre-internet era and the early stages of the internet (before online dating websites were de-stigmatized in the early to mid-2000s). A woman can't get as many male options solely from her real life day-to-day activities as compared to what she can get from a presence on a swipe app or multiple social media platforms.

Women have been more inclined to get bachelor's degrees and advanced degrees. They can now support themselves and don't need a provider male on an individual level. Women do need the collective of men for infrastructure needs. Her smartphone was designed and programmed by a man. Men often take her sexy photos and videos for her Instagram and OnlyFans pages if she utilizes those platforms. She needs male tradesmen to work on her modern conveniences that she takes for granted.

The typical woman since the 1970s has been more promiscuous and put up higher notch counts. Sexlessness is less commonly a problem for women. In the past 20-25 years, women have been having more sexual partners with sex with a smaller percentage of men, leaving a greater percentage of men sexless.

At the end of the day, don't worry about western women. If they don't want to participate in a relationship because of "reasons", it's up to them. There isn't really anything an average man can do. High expectations, waiting for chad, etc.. etc.. whatever.. It's not the OP's problem, but western women in general.
This is a great perspective and attitude.

Always use a false time constraint with these older OLD phone-calling women. Also, these calls must be earned. if there's no sexual flirtation before the phone call request/demand, I am perpetually either at the store or driving my car until such sexual flirtation occurs.
The false time constraint tactic is one of my favorite tactics and one that has aged well from the late 1990s/early 2000s pickup artist era.

Because I'm a Millennial who mainly dates other Millennials, I rarely have to deal with women who want to actually use a telephone for voice conversation. To me, this seems like more of a Generation X issue. Over the last 10-15 years, I haven't had to deal with this much regardless of the method that I initially start the interaction with the woman (real life vs. some tech-based method).
 

Slowhandluke

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This is true in simplistic terms. When it is examined in more detail, it's difficult to make a claim that men's lives haven't changed. Fewer men are doing manual labor. More men are going to college and doing white collar work. More men are sexless or borderline incel than in past generations. That has consequences. Women have also made advances in the white collar workspace that have impacted men. It is more difficult for men to be provider males with women competing with us (and often winning) in the white collar workspace. Additionally, in the sexual marketplace, the provider male is less valued. Women have replaced the provider male with either their own white collar jobs (true for women middle class + with bachelor's degrees or higher) or by collecting government benefits (lower class women).
Throughout history... from the stone age, to the Victorian era.. Men worked.. they provide.. and they pursue. At the most basic level, this has not changed. At the most basic level, women get pursued, and they picked ONE guy.. and they stayed with that one guy. Why did they pick that one guy? Because the pill did not exist.. because there was a high chance they did not survive if they picked the wrong guy... or their life would be very rough.. Women did not "date around".

Details changed throughout history... The wheel... farming.. ways of cultivation... sanitation.. etc.. etc.. Just like the current time period.. things have changed. Like you mention, more white collar worker. 2 generations ago, it was farming to the factory. We went from 90% of the world (women and men included) working on farms, to working on the assemble line. Now a lot more are working in "information" work or Knowledge work. These details are just that, "details". Fundamentally, "the work, provide, and pursue" remains for men..

However, it is different for women. No where in time was it ok for women to sleep around especially before the pill or efficient ways of preventing pregnancy. What was common throughout history, women picked one guy when they were young.. That has changed. It has fundamentally changed women.. .which has also changed men but only in the respects of relationships, but not in the most simplistic way. The way of "work, provide.. pursue" - that has not changed. That is what I meant when I said it is the women's choices that has lead to the situation we are in now... not men's choices.
 

BaronOfHair

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I would so rather meet somebody in person, hate this online nonsense.
No time to begin doing so like the present, hombre. Dunno about life all over the world, but in my neck of the woods, women are highly receptive to being approached out in reality. In a world that's still recovering from both COVID lockdown and the diasterous moral panic that was MeToo, there's been no other era in recent human history where men have so LITTLE serious competition
 

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Thing is you're fishing in a difficult age bracket

You've got women probably out of failed relationships / marriages or worse have never been in one

So she's either super jaded about men or set in her ways

her social circles are probably dead and is likely unapproachable IRL

that's why she is on the apps.

--------------------------------------------------------

You have to go younger and hope you can find one thats still got some feminine polarity left
 

SW15

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Throughout history... from the stone age, to the Victorian era.. Men worked.. they provide.. and they pursue... Details changed throughout history.... At the most basic level, this has not changed.....Fundamentally, "the work, provide, and pursue" remains for men..
This is accurate. The fundamental premise remains, but this model is being challenged.

Men work, provide, and pursue.

Men are still pursuing more than ever. I believe men are now having to put more effort into pursuing than ever before.

Pursuing does look different now than it did in the past for men.

In the 2010s-2020s, pursuing has shifted more towards tech-based methods. More of pursuance occurs on swipe apps and social media platforms than ever. A lot of men like the idea of being able to sit at home in more comfortable clothing and pursue from behind an electronic screen with swiping and sending text-based messages. From the 1970s-2000s, when men wanted to pursue when lacking social circle introductions, it looked and felt different. Men would have to leave their homes, get dressed and look presentable, drive/take public transportation, park a car (if driving), and often spend money in a nightlife venues (and sometimes in a non-bar effort). That feels like a lot more effort, though the inefficiencies of tech-based dating for most men make the older school way less of an effort. There's an illusion of efficiency in sitting at home, swiping, and sending text-based messages. The problem is that response rates are so low for most men. When most men use swipe apps, they typically get matches on less than 1% of their right swipes. Even with their matches, few turn into dates. It's inefficient. However, for the 90th percentile + of men, the amount of matches and first dates they can get from swipe apps exceeds what they could get solely from real life efforts. For them, the efficiency is real and not an illusion. Additionally, sending DMs on Instagram is only more efficient and effective for a small percentage of men.

The male whose SMV is based primarily around providing is nearly extinct in the United States (likely true in other Western nations too). There's not much of a need for a provider male anymore with women having more education and working opportunities. When women had few working opportunities, the provider male had value to a woman. Now, women have both education and working opportunities or government benefits to replace any value that a provider male would have had in the past.

There are statistics that fewer prime age working men (25-54 years old) are actually working. Many 25-54 year old men have dropped out of the work force due to a lack of sex. Why bother to work if the pursuance of vagina isn't going well? Although the basement dwelling Millennial/Gen Z lower tier beta/omega exists and has grown in size, it is still a smaller subset of men. The typical man still works to live and works in order to try to attract women. In real life, this is the run of the mill beta male who struggles to attention from women. Every white collar office with more than a handful of employees has at least one of these betas. Some of these betas can be found in more blue collar/manual labor jobs too.

At the most basic level, women get pursued, and they picked ONE guy.. and they stayed with that one guy. Why did they pick that one guy? Because the pill did not exist.. because there was a high chance they did not survive if they picked the wrong guy... or their life would be very rough.. Women did not "date around".

However, it is different for women. No where in time was it ok for women to sleep around especially before the pill or efficient ways of preventing pregnancy. What was common throughout history, women picked one guy when they were young.. That has changed. It has fundamentally changed women.. .which has also changed men but only in the respects of relationships, but not in the most simplistic way. That is what I meant when I said it is the women's choices that has lead to the situation we are in now... not men's choices.
The birth control pill and feminism have changed how women behave in life. This ended up changing the mating market as a whole.

Second Wave Feminism (1960s-1980s era feminism thought) and the birth control pill emerged around the same time but didn't have immediate impact. The changes were longer term and gradual. Women also started to pursue higher education and careers more, as I'll get into below. Both Second Wave Feminism and birth control affected this.

Before the birth control pill, women could not managed their own birth control. Male condoms existed prior to the birth control pill's invention in 1960. Other birth control options have become available to women besides the hormonal birth control pill.

The mentality that women have around their use of birth control was different in the 1960s-1970s than it has been in recent decades. In the earlier days, birth control was less of a motivator for promiscuity that it has been recently. Women were still getting married earlier in life and had more modest partner counts in those days. Birth control was utilized as a shorter term solution for a woman who did intend to have a monogamous marriage with children. In the late 1960s-1970s, there was a small percentage of women was promiscuous and into the "free love" concept, but that was less of the norm. Even in the 1970s, 10-20 years after the invention of the birth control pill, most women were getting married around ages 21-24 with less than 2 sexual partners. That isn't happening now.

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Second Wave Feminism promoted female independence. Independence was to be achieved through white collar careers. More and more women started getting bachelor's and advanced degrees so that they wouldn't need to depend on any one male. Over time, this postponed marriages and reduced female fertility. While women were postponing marriages, they weren't postponing sex. Women decided to still have sex but in less committed arrangements before an eventual marriage. These less committed arrangements did create the reality of increased lifetime partner counts, both for women who eventually married and for women that never married.
 

SW15

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Thing is you're fishing in a difficult age bracket

You've got women probably out of failed relationships / marriages or worse have never been in one

So she's either super jaded about men or set in her ways

her social circles are probably dead and is likely unapproachable IRL

that's why she is on the apps.
This is true. Let's consider a woman who is ages 32-44 who is available.

Most women 32-44 have multiple failed non-marital relationships if they are available. Some will even have 1-2 failed marriages.

Women as young as their early to mid-30s don't have much in the way of social circle options. The typical woman in the 32-37 range who is unmarried and childless has a social circle that is filled with women with married women, women in very long term non-marital relationships, and often married women with children. None of those women would be helpful to the 32-37 year old unmarried childless woman in meeting a man.

38-44 year old women might know some divorced 38-44 year old women, but those divorced 38-44 year old women often have children. These aren't women that can help them in meeting men.

Most women 32-44 (especially childless ones) are either going to be dependent upon apps for meeting men or are going to rely to a lesser extent on bars for meeting men. Most 32-44 year old women don't have a good enough day-to-day routine to get approached regularly in non-bar venues.
 

Gameplayer007

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Matched with some chick on Hinge. I'm 47 and she is 41. She is out of state visiting her parents and asked if she could call me (we've been texting a couple of days)

She is already being aggressive (turn off) and the whole 30 minutes she was just talking about herself and I felt like her therapist. I finally had to cut her off and told her I had to make lunch.

This has happened a few other times with online women

Atleast when you meet somebody off dating sites, you know there is an attraction right off the bat.

I would so rather meet somebody in person, hate this online nonsense.
Im just jumping into the whole thing and catching up on reading the entire thread. Having said that, just to get some more info and context did you ever ask or talk to her (before the call) about meeting together for dinner or a date?
 
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