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What is the definition of masculinity/ masculine energy/ frame?

Gamisch

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Got inspiration to make this thread based of @BackInTheGame78 thread about looks , and @Pan87 's comment about masculinity.

I assume we will conclude that looks only take you so far and masculine energy triumphs over said looks. But how do we define what masculinity actually is? How is this applicable when interacting with the opposite sex?
 

Steno

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Just my opinion but some things that go with masculine frame are being assertive, confident, fearless, not afraid of confrontation, prideful, territorial, ambitious, outspoken, problem-solver, socially savvy, go-getter, not afraid to take risk.
 

Gamisch

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Just my opinion but some things that go with masculine frame are being assertive, confident, fearless, not afraid of confrontation, prideful, territorial, ambitious, outspoken, problem-solver, socially savvy, go-getter, not afraid to take risk.
Do you think women subconsciously understand that being with a man who possesses these traits increase their chance of survival, vs a pretty boy who cannot protect them in the long run?
 

Steno

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Do you think women subconsciously understand that being with a man who possesses these traits increase their chance of survival, vs a pretty boy who cannot protect them in the long run?
Are you asking if women prefer an average dude with game or a chad?

The thing is that the bar is substantially lower for very attractive men, all they generally need to do to clean house is have average social competence and a small amount of sexual confidence (meaning that they don't creep women out with clunky escalation). All the other masculine traits are only required if you aren't a chad, you literally need to max them all out and you still won't be able to compete with an incompetent chad unless he has a nuclear sticking point. In most cases when you hear about attractive/high-status guys who struggles with girls its always an EXTREME situation where the dude is insanely awkward or creepy like Deshaun Watson.

I know a dude who is a chad, I'm talking Chris Evans tier looks but more rugged and slightly more muscular. Technically speaking his game is trash but he still cleans house. His conversational skills are below average and he relies too much on girls giving him extremely obvious flirtation signals before he escalates. He will probably never have to develop any charisma or game because the women do a lot of the work for him.

So to answer your question, in my opinion game can only get you so far, its impossible to compete with chads. Imagine this, if you have the choice to get with a 6 who is extremely charismatic, perfect personality, and phenomenal in bed or a 8.5 who is boring, lacks charisma, and is mediocre in bed you will still prefer to bang the 8.5 no hesitation, that is how women evaluate men as well. We underestimate how easy it is for any women 6 + to get sex from a guy she perceives to be super attractive. I was acquainted with chicks who are 5's and 6's at best, and these chicks can all consistently get sex from some ripped 6'2 dude, idk how they find him but they do. A girl I used to date would get like 30+ DMs a day on instagram and she didn't have that many followers.
 

Gamisch

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Questions to the asker....

Do you want to BE Masculine or LOOK masculine....

Take some time and ponder the question....

I liked that clip a lot! I think the answer to your question about my question is both ..
 

Tilex

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It's simple really.
Find a list of feminine traits and make a list of opposite traits.

The honest and 100% explicit truth about masculine energy is to go against the grain of society.
Social Media, Instagram, YouTube, the Fashion industry, & Hollywood has projected femininity onto the male image, while projecting masculinity onto the female image.
When I go out to grocery stores these days, I keep seeing young males wearing outfits that females would wear.
Keeping up with the latest fashion trends is a feminine trait.
 

The Duke

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Do you think women subconsciously understand that being with a man who possesses these traits increase their chance of survival, vs a pretty boy who cannot protect them in the long run?
Yes. My chic mentions those exact things. She knows I can hunt, fish, build things from scratch, solve problems, own tools and can fix anything. I don't worry about my looks much. And I'd shoot someone in self defense if I had to. It helps her feel secure. Girls that had strong relationships with their fathers look for these traits. I attract daddy's girls for a reason.
 

The Duke

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I've always wondered about guys that get facials, manicures, obsess about looks, wear elevator shoes, etc. That's stuff women do. Not masculine at all.
 

Modern Man Advice

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Being a man was, is, and will always be a matter of choice and everyday actions.

As Brett perfectly laid out years ago in the video that 2Rocky shared, there are vast differences in how masculinity can be perceived and defined as in society.

Truth is:
1) Being born a male does not make you a man.
2) Bulking and looking stereotypically masculine does not make you a man.
3) Spinning plates and high "notch counts" does not make you a man.
4) Being "alpha" (whatever that means nowadays) does not make you a man.
5) Etc, etc, etc

Think about it this way, in a society/community/tribe/etc what type of person would make you feel safe and provided for. There lies a foundation for masculinity. We can go back to our beginnings and study human evolution and we can clearly see very defined roles that made society work and progress. One of those critical roles was of men willing to put everything on the line for their own. That is a man.

However, we have become a culture of egos and self-preservation. An individualistic society if you will. So identifying "manhood" or "masculinity" will always be (and has been since the beginning of our evolution) directly correlated to our tribe. Men are defined by the tribe they live in and therefore defined by their fellow men. As Jack Donovan said (more or less) in his book "The Way of Men" we find the way of men within the complexities of tribe survival and growth.

I've always been a believer in the "fight club" philosophy. Believe me, I like to ride my motorcycle, build, exercise, and eat alone, I simply enjoy my own company but I also believe in the importance of having a brotherhood. In the good ol' days, there were roundtables, gatherings of men discussing theology and philosophy, tribes of hunting men, armies of 300 men fighting oppressors, etc. Nowadays modern culture/society has isolated us, divided us, and distracted us.

We have been bamboozled.

I actually liked the idea of @Bethatsocialguy and I think @eli77 also suggested something similar before of having weekly or bi-weekly gatherings (ideally in person). There are several companies like mine that gather men in this way. That has always been one of the many goals for Modern Man Advice.

Modern Man Advice
 

eli77

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Being a man was, is, and will always be a matter of choice and everyday actions.

As Brett perfectly laid out years ago in the video that 2Rocky shared, there are vast differences in how masculinity can be perceived and defined as in society.

Truth is:
1) Being born a male does not make you a man.
2) Bulking and looking stereotypically masculine does not make you a man.
3) Spinning plates and high "notch counts" does not make you a man.
4) Being "alpha" (whatever that means nowadays) does not make you a man.
5) Etc, etc, etc

Think about it this way, in a society/community/tribe/etc what type of person would make you feel safe and provided for. There lies a foundation for masculinity. We can go back to our beginnings and study human evolution and we can clearly see very defined roles that made society work and progress. One of those critical roles was of men willing to put everything on the line for their own. That is a man.

However, we have become a culture of egos and self-preservation. An individualistic society if you will. So identifying "manhood" or "masculinity" will always be (and has been since the beginning of our evolution) directly correlated to our tribe. Men are defined by the tribe they live in and therefore defined by their fellow men. As Jack Donovan said (more or less) in his book "The Way of Men" we find the way of men within the complexities of tribe survival and growth.

I've always been a believer in the "fight club" philosophy. Believe me, I like to ride my motorcycle, build, exercise, and eat alone, I simply enjoy my own company but I also believe in the importance of having a brotherhood. In the good ol' days, there were roundtables, gatherings of men discussing theology and philosophy, tribes of hunting men, armies of 300 men fighting oppressors, etc. Nowadays modern culture/society has isolated us, divided us, and distracted us.

We have been bamboozled.

I actually liked the idea of @Bethatsocialguy and I think @eli77 also suggested something similar before of having weekly or bi-weekly gatherings (ideally in person). There are several companies like mine that gather men in this way. That has always been one of the many goals for Modern Man Advice.

Modern Man Advice
Nice
 

Gamisch

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Being a man was, is, and will always be a matter of choice and everyday actions.

As Brett perfectly laid out years ago in the video that 2Rocky shared, there are vast differences in how masculinity can be perceived and defined as in society.

Truth is:
1) Being born a male does not make you a man.
2) Bulking and looking stereotypically masculine does not make you a man.
3) Spinning plates and high "notch counts" does not make you a man.
4) Being "alpha" (whatever that means nowadays) does not make you a man.
5) Etc, etc, etc

Think about it this way, in a society/community/tribe/etc what type of person would make you feel safe and provided for. There lies a foundation for masculinity. We can go back to our beginnings and study human evolution and we can clearly see very defined roles that made society work and progress. One of those critical roles was of men willing to put everything on the line for their own. That is a man.

However, we have become a culture of egos and self-preservation. An individualistic society if you will. So identifying "manhood" or "masculinity" will always be (and has been since the beginning of our evolution) directly correlated to our tribe. Men are defined by the tribe they live in and therefore defined by their fellow men. As Jack Donovan said (more or less) in his book "The Way of Men" we find the way of men within the complexities of tribe survival and growth.

I've always been a believer in the "fight club" philosophy. Believe me, I like to ride my motorcycle, build, exercise, and eat alone, I simply enjoy my own company but I also believe in the importance of having a brotherhood. In the good ol' days, there were roundtables, gatherings of men discussing theology and philosophy, tribes of hunting men, armies of 300 men fighting oppressors, etc. Nowadays modern culture/society has isolated us, divided us, and distracted us.

We have been bamboozled.

I actually liked the idea of @Bethatsocialguy and I think @eli77 also suggested something similar before of having weekly or bi-weekly gatherings (ideally in person). There are several companies like mine that gather men in this way. That has always been one of the many goals for Modern Man Advice.

Modern Man Advice
Glad you responded, I always love your opinion on stuff like this . Great post.
 

2Rocky

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This....Definitely This...

 

FlexpertHamilton

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Frame is pretty simple in my mind, it's a matter of who's controlling the narrative. Who's reality are you in? Who is the one who sets boundaries, defines what is unacceptable or not (whether its direct or indirect), who is the one who has the final say? Who wins the arguments? Who is the one who sets the precedent?


Here’s how I see it.

Being good looking piques a woman’s interest. But if you can’t back it up with masculinity (inner strength, self love, frame, purpose, amused mastery, man-to-woman polarity) then being a good looking guy actually becomes a hinderance because women hate good looking guys who are weak.

Game is everything. You can be ugly/average and turn a woman on by saying/doing the right things and behaving in a certain way. You can fly under the radar because she’s not expecting it. She expects the good looking guy to have game, and he almost always doesn’t. She ends up disappointed. This is where ugly dude with game comes in.
There's a scale to this. A 9/10 with weak game will probably do better than a 3/10 with tight game. I can tell you from my own experience in my early 20s women literally opened me saying how attractive I was. And my game was absolute dog**** but I could still get them to come straight to my place after talking to them for 5-10 minutes in a bar. That said the facade didn't last long. So for long term attraction, obviously deep game knowledge is paramount.
 

2Rocky

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FlexpertHamilton

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Market has definitely changed, but your game couldn’t have been that bad if you were talking to girls for 10 mins and then taking them home. Even the hottest Chad would struggle with that in 2022.

If this was happening at highschool/college then it’s much easier to have fast sex if you know what you’re doing - women are less jaded at that age (but it doesn’t take long - a few c0cks and she’s already developing the paranoid and suspicious persona of a mature woman)
More specifically I would talk, get their #, then they'd come over at a later date, sometimes 1+ week, though there was 1 straight pull to my apartment in 5-10 min of chatting.

It was just in regular bars. Maybe it can shed light on how much things have changed in 10 years...
 
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