Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

What is the definition of masculinity/ masculine energy/ frame?

Gamisch

Senior Don Juan
Joined
May 2, 2022
Messages
364
Reaction score
333
Got inspiration to make this thread based of @BackInTheGame78 thread about looks , and @Pan87 's comment about masculinity.

I assume we will conclude that looks only take you so far and masculine energy triumphs over said looks. But how do we define what masculinity actually is? How is this applicable when interacting with the opposite sex?
 

Pan87

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
4,517
Reaction score
5,840
Age
34
Got inspiration to make this thread based of @BackInTheGame78 thread about looks , and @Pan87 's comment about masculinity.

I assume we will conclude that looks only take you so far and masculine energy triumphs over said looks. But how do we define what masculinity actually is? How is this applicable when interacting with the opposite sex?
Here’s how I see it.

Being good looking piques a woman’s interest. But if you can’t back it up with masculinity (inner strength, self love, frame, purpose, amused mastery, man-to-woman polarity) then being a good looking guy actually becomes a hinderance because women hate good looking guys who are weak.

Game is everything. You can be ugly/average and turn a woman on by saying/doing the right things and behaving in a certain way. You can fly under the radar because she’s not expecting it. She expects the good looking guy to have game, and he almost always doesn’t. She ends up disappointed. This is where ugly dude with game comes in.
 

Steno

Don Juan
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Messages
65
Reaction score
66
Just my opinion but some things that go with masculine frame are being assertive, confident, fearless, not afraid of confrontation, prideful, territorial, ambitious, outspoken, problem-solver, socially savvy, go-getter, not afraid to take risk.
 

Gamisch

Senior Don Juan
Joined
May 2, 2022
Messages
364
Reaction score
333
Just my opinion but some things that go with masculine frame are being assertive, confident, fearless, not afraid of confrontation, prideful, territorial, ambitious, outspoken, problem-solver, socially savvy, go-getter, not afraid to take risk.
Do you think women subconsciously understand that being with a man who possesses these traits increase their chance of survival, vs a pretty boy who cannot protect them in the long run?
 

catsmeow

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 25, 2021
Messages
1,254
Reaction score
843
I'm confused by this notion of "game" when first meeting a woman and attracting her.

Game sounds like some sort of intentional strategic manipulation when in truth, when a man is successful at pulling women, isn't it simply his own energy/vibe doing all the work, naturally?

It's been said, by the same men who preach game, that a man's energy/vibe is so important, everything really.

But you can't manufacture energy/vibe it's internal and either you have the right energy/vibe necessary to attract women or you don't.

So what's the game? Even amused mastery comes from your vibe, I don't think it can be created or manufactured.

Another man might employ the same amused mastery/frame and fail miserably. Why? Because he doesn't possess the right energy and the vibe he projects sucks.

Jmo but I don't think such guys give themselves enough credit. They credit "game" when again it's simply their own enery/vibe doing the work, naturally.

JMO.
 

Warning!

Do not subscribe to The SoSuave Newsletter unless you are already a chick magnet!

The information in each issue of The SoSuave Newsletter is too powerful for most guys to handle. If you are an ordinary guy, it is not for you. It is meant for the elite few. Not the unwashed masses.

If you know you can handle it...

If you already have girls calling you at all hours of the day and night, showing up at your door, throwing themselves at you everywhere you go...

Then sign up below.

But if you're just an average Joe, an ordinary guy, no one special – then skip this. It is not for you.

Steno

Don Juan
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Messages
65
Reaction score
66
Do you think women subconsciously understand that being with a man who possesses these traits increase their chance of survival, vs a pretty boy who cannot protect them in the long run?
Are you asking if women prefer an average dude with game or a chad?

The thing is that the bar is substantially lower for very attractive men, all they generally need to do to clean house is have average social competence and a small amount of sexual confidence (meaning that they don't creep women out with clunky escalation). All the other masculine traits are only required if you aren't a chad, you literally need to max them all out and you still won't be able to compete with an incompetent chad unless he has a nuclear sticking point. In most cases when you hear about attractive/high-status guys who struggles with girls its always an EXTREME situation where the dude is insanely awkward or creepy like Deshaun Watson.

I know a dude who is a chad, I'm talking Chris Evans tier looks but more rugged and slightly more muscular. Technically speaking his game is trash but he still cleans house. His conversational skills are below average and he relies too much on girls giving him extremely obvious flirtation signals before he escalates. He will probably never have to develop any charisma or game because the women do a lot of the work for him.

So to answer your question, in my opinion game can only get you so far, its impossible to compete with chads. Imagine this, if you have the choice to get with a 6 who is extremely charismatic, perfect personality, and phenomenal in bed or a 8.5 who is boring, lacks charisma, and is mediocre in bed you will still prefer to bang the 8.5 no hesitation, that is how women evaluate men as well. We underestimate how easy it is for any women 6 + to get sex from a guy she perceives to be super attractive. I was acquainted with chicks who are 5's and 6's at best, and these chicks can all consistently get sex from some ripped 6'2 dude, idk how they find him but they do. A girl I used to date would get like 30+ DMs a day on instagram and she didn't have that many followers.
 

LARaiders85

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 4, 2016
Messages
10,470
Reaction score
10,173
Age
37
Power basically. Most of my most effective dating was as the dominant force in a social circle. You don't need to censor yourself in such an environment and you can act intuitively.
 

Gamisch

Senior Don Juan
Joined
May 2, 2022
Messages
364
Reaction score
333
Questions to the asker....

Do you want to BE Masculine or LOOK masculine....

Take some time and ponder the question....

I liked that clip a lot! I think the answer to your question about my question is both ..
 

Tilex

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Messages
745
Reaction score
807
Age
42
It's simple really.
Find a list of feminine traits and make a list of opposite traits.

The honest and 100% explicit truth about masculine energy is to go against the grain of society.
Social Media, Instagram, YouTube, the Fashion industry, & Hollywood has projected femininity onto the male image, while projecting masculinity onto the female image.
When I go out to grocery stores these days, I keep seeing young males wearing outfits that females would wear.
Keeping up with the latest fashion trends is a feminine trait.
 

stringpuller

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Messages
8,403
Reaction score
5,945
Got inspiration to make this thread based of @BackInTheGame78 thread about looks , and @Pan87 's comment about masculinity.

I assume we will conclude that looks only take you so far and masculine energy triumphs over said looks. But how do we define what masculinity actually is? How is this applicable when interacting with the opposite sex?
 

Howiestern

Master Don Juan
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
3,222
Reaction score
3,378
Age
45
Do you think women subconsciously understand that being with a man who possesses these traits increase their chance of survival, vs a pretty boy who cannot protect them in the long run?
Yes. My chic mentions those exact things. She knows I can hunt, fish, build things from scratch, solve problems, own tools and can fix anything. I don't worry about my looks much. And I'd shoot someone in self defense if I had to. It helps her feel secure. Girls that had strong relationships with their fathers look for these traits. I attract daddy's girls for a reason.
 

Howiestern

Master Don Juan
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
3,222
Reaction score
3,378
Age
45
I've always wondered about guys that get facials, manicures, obsess about looks, wear elevator shoes, etc. That's stuff women do. Not masculine at all.
 

Modern Man Advice

Master Don Juan
Joined
Feb 3, 2021
Messages
1,108
Reaction score
1,714
Location
PNW
Being a man was, is, and will always be a matter of choice and everyday actions.

As Brett perfectly laid out years ago in the video that 2Rocky shared, there are vast differences in how masculinity can be perceived and defined as in society.

Truth is:
1) Being born a male does not make you a man.
2) Bulking and looking stereotypically masculine does not make you a man.
3) Spinning plates and high "notch counts" does not make you a man.
4) Being "alpha" (whatever that means nowadays) does not make you a man.
5) Etc, etc, etc

Think about it this way, in a society/community/tribe/etc what type of person would make you feel safe and provided for. There lies a foundation for masculinity. We can go back to our beginnings and study human evolution and we can clearly see very defined roles that made society work and progress. One of those critical roles was of men willing to put everything on the line for their own. That is a man.

However, we have become a culture of egos and self-preservation. An individualistic society if you will. So identifying "manhood" or "masculinity" will always be (and has been since the beginning of our evolution) directly correlated to our tribe. Men are defined by the tribe they live in and therefore defined by their fellow men. As Jack Donovan said (more or less) in his book "The Way of Men" we find the way of men within the complexities of tribe survival and growth.

I've always been a believer in the "fight club" philosophy. Believe me, I like to ride my motorcycle, build, exercise, and eat alone, I simply enjoy my own company but I also believe in the importance of having a brotherhood. In the good ol' days, there were roundtables, gatherings of men discussing theology and philosophy, tribes of hunting men, armies of 300 men fighting oppressors, etc. Nowadays modern culture/society has isolated us, divided us, and distracted us.

We have been bamboozled.

I actually liked the idea of @Bethatsocialguy and I think @eli77 also suggested something similar before of having weekly or bi-weekly gatherings (ideally in person). There are several companies like mine that gather men in this way. That has always been one of the many goals for Modern Man Advice.

Modern Man Advice
 

image

Put away your credit card.

You can now read our detailed guide to women and dating for free - Right Here!

eli77

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Messages
1,024
Reaction score
243
Being a man was, is, and will always be a matter of choice and everyday actions.

As Brett perfectly laid out years ago in the video that 2Rocky shared, there are vast differences in how masculinity can be perceived and defined as in society.

Truth is:
1) Being born a male does not make you a man.
2) Bulking and looking stereotypically masculine does not make you a man.
3) Spinning plates and high "notch counts" does not make you a man.
4) Being "alpha" (whatever that means nowadays) does not make you a man.
5) Etc, etc, etc

Think about it this way, in a society/community/tribe/etc what type of person would make you feel safe and provided for. There lies a foundation for masculinity. We can go back to our beginnings and study human evolution and we can clearly see very defined roles that made society work and progress. One of those critical roles was of men willing to put everything on the line for their own. That is a man.

However, we have become a culture of egos and self-preservation. An individualistic society if you will. So identifying "manhood" or "masculinity" will always be (and has been since the beginning of our evolution) directly correlated to our tribe. Men are defined by the tribe they live in and therefore defined by their fellow men. As Jack Donovan said (more or less) in his book "The Way of Men" we find the way of men within the complexities of tribe survival and growth.

I've always been a believer in the "fight club" philosophy. Believe me, I like to ride my motorcycle, build, exercise, and eat alone, I simply enjoy my own company but I also believe in the importance of having a brotherhood. In the good ol' days, there were roundtables, gatherings of men discussing theology and philosophy, tribes of hunting men, armies of 300 men fighting oppressors, etc. Nowadays modern culture/society has isolated us, divided us, and distracted us.

We have been bamboozled.

I actually liked the idea of @Bethatsocialguy and I think @eli77 also suggested something similar before of having weekly or bi-weekly gatherings (ideally in person). There are several companies like mine that gather men in this way. That has always been one of the many goals for Modern Man Advice.

Modern Man Advice
Nice
 

DonBig

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Sep 12, 2021
Messages
477
Reaction score
184
Age
25
I'm still not clear how an ugly guy would even have an opportunity to run game. He'll be shut down hard, ignored or given one word answers by the chick.
Ugly guys are more prone to develop narcissistic traits, because they are more likely to be treated less well then good looking guys during childhood and attracting women is all based on narcissism. Go outside and approach good looking vs ugly males. You will see that good looking guys majority of them are more nice and friendlier than ugly guys.
 

Gamisch

Senior Don Juan
Joined
May 2, 2022
Messages
364
Reaction score
333
Being a man was, is, and will always be a matter of choice and everyday actions.

As Brett perfectly laid out years ago in the video that 2Rocky shared, there are vast differences in how masculinity can be perceived and defined as in society.

Truth is:
1) Being born a male does not make you a man.
2) Bulking and looking stereotypically masculine does not make you a man.
3) Spinning plates and high "notch counts" does not make you a man.
4) Being "alpha" (whatever that means nowadays) does not make you a man.
5) Etc, etc, etc

Think about it this way, in a society/community/tribe/etc what type of person would make you feel safe and provided for. There lies a foundation for masculinity. We can go back to our beginnings and study human evolution and we can clearly see very defined roles that made society work and progress. One of those critical roles was of men willing to put everything on the line for their own. That is a man.

However, we have become a culture of egos and self-preservation. An individualistic society if you will. So identifying "manhood" or "masculinity" will always be (and has been since the beginning of our evolution) directly correlated to our tribe. Men are defined by the tribe they live in and therefore defined by their fellow men. As Jack Donovan said (more or less) in his book "The Way of Men" we find the way of men within the complexities of tribe survival and growth.

I've always been a believer in the "fight club" philosophy. Believe me, I like to ride my motorcycle, build, exercise, and eat alone, I simply enjoy my own company but I also believe in the importance of having a brotherhood. In the good ol' days, there were roundtables, gatherings of men discussing theology and philosophy, tribes of hunting men, armies of 300 men fighting oppressors, etc. Nowadays modern culture/society has isolated us, divided us, and distracted us.

We have been bamboozled.

I actually liked the idea of @Bethatsocialguy and I think @eli77 also suggested something similar before of having weekly or bi-weekly gatherings (ideally in person). There are several companies like mine that gather men in this way. That has always been one of the many goals for Modern Man Advice.

Modern Man Advice
Glad you responded, I always love your opinion on stuff like this . Great post.
 

2Rocky

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
2,203
Reaction score
2,383
Age
48
This....Definitely This...

 

FlexpertHamilton

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
1,205
Reaction score
1,375
Location
US
Frame is pretty simple in my mind, it's a matter of who's controlling the narrative. Who's reality are you in? Who is the one who sets boundaries, defines what is unacceptable or not (whether its direct or indirect), who is the one who has the final say? Who wins the arguments? Who is the one who sets the precedent?


Here’s how I see it.

Being good looking piques a woman’s interest. But if you can’t back it up with masculinity (inner strength, self love, frame, purpose, amused mastery, man-to-woman polarity) then being a good looking guy actually becomes a hinderance because women hate good looking guys who are weak.

Game is everything. You can be ugly/average and turn a woman on by saying/doing the right things and behaving in a certain way. You can fly under the radar because she’s not expecting it. She expects the good looking guy to have game, and he almost always doesn’t. She ends up disappointed. This is where ugly dude with game comes in.
There's a scale to this. A 9/10 with weak game will probably do better than a 3/10 with tight game. I can tell you from my own experience in my early 20s women literally opened me saying how attractive I was. And my game was absolute dog**** but I could still get them to come straight to my place after talking to them for 5-10 minutes in a bar. That said the facade didn't last long. So for long term attraction, obviously deep game knowledge is paramount.
 
Top