weird eviction situation

[Bonhomme]

OK, here's the deal.

I finally got an eviction order against tenant who was scamming a place from me, and is now over 2 months overdue, including credit for their deposit. Now the tenant is in the hospital with a kidney condition, or so says her daughter.

I called last week to tell them to pay or move by the weekend, but the tenant's daughter informed me of the3 tenant being in the hospital, and said her grandma (the tenant's mother) would call me to make arrangements to pay. She never called. Now they say they will move at the end of the month.

It will probably cost $300-$400 to put their stuff out, if I decide to do that, which is about equal to the rent I'd lose if they move at the end of the month, like they say they will. But being too soft will set a bad precedent for the tenant in the other unit, who is also behind on rent. I have people interested in the units.

I know it would seem bogue to put out the family of a tenenat who's in the hospital, but they've sponged me for a while, and tenants will do anything to scam free rent. If they had any integrity, they'd have moved already.

I called again this morning and told the daughter it was kind of me to give them an extra week, having found out the situation, but I'm not running a housing charity, and now they should move out this weekend, but I'll give them another week if they pay $100. The daughter said her grandma (tenant's mother) will call me, but she still hasn't.

I hate to be a azzhole, but I'm sick of being played.

Putting them out would create a hostile situation, but would let the other tenant know I mean business. Letting them stay may give the other tenant the idea they can get away with anything.

I might try a 3-way call with te bailiff on the other line to let them know I can put them out at any time, but if they cooperate with my effirts to show the place and move promptly at the end of the month, I'll let them do that. But they'll have to pay the water bill if it gets shut off, because they owe me more than that.

Thoughts?

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Put them out now, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

 

[Omega]

You have two options.

Tell them to move out by the end of the week or your going to report this on their credit rating and kick them out.

Or, if they stay without paying for the monthly fees, you'll do the same and charge them for whatever it costs you.

 

[Bonhomme]

OK

R3N3GAD3, they don't care about their credit and I won't be able to collect a dime from them, whatever happens. Unless they inherit property. Fat chance.

Unfortunately, I have jury duty Monday. Big drag.

So they may get a brief reprieve, unless I can make arrangements with someone to take care of it (perhaps give them checks of different denominations and a small amount of cash, so they can take care of it.

I've called the bailiff, and will make arrangements to get them out as soon as possible.

 

[Omega]

Take it to court and have them pay for the months rent and whatever your going to pay for booting them out.

 

[penkitten]

if its not one excuse , its always another on why the money is late.
the fact of the matter is, it doesnt matter why it is late.
a good landlord collects rent on time, and evicts when they can not.

 

[Bonhomme]

Already took them to court

Damn straight, penkitten, any excuse. I'm transitioning into home inspections and getting rid of most of my rentals. Enough babysitting. The economy has totally gone to sh1t, and good tenants are few and far between. My last vacancy took me 3 months to fill. Not one good applicant until then. But that one is a marvelous tenant.

I already took them to court, and got a judgment. All that's left is to put the stuff out. There is more to it that I don't care to divulge, but this I will say: a management company put them in, and when I gave the management company a month's notice to take over management, the management company let the tenant get behind without filing an eviction, or informing me of their delinquency. So I lost over a month straight off. And all 3 tenants they put in have failed

I do plan to sue the management company, when I can find a bit of time to put the case together, since the rent will not get caught up.

After I got the judgment, we "worked out a deal" with a government agency in which the agency sent me a $620 check to buy them more time. OK, I got more money than I otherwise would have got. But the tenants themselves didn't follow through on the rest of the agreement... so here we are.

If I knew for certain they would move at the end of the month, I'd come out ahead letting them stay until then: the lost rent would be less than the cost of paying the bailiff plus the trash removal. Goddam city of Detroit gives landlords litter tickets for the stuff that's put out on the curb if it's not gone in 5 days, and bulk pickup day isn't until the end of the month. But I don't know for certain they'll move, and again, I don't want to give the deadbeat in the other unit the wrong idea.

Unfortunately, I can't be in 2 places at once Monday... damned jury duty.

I'm really hoping they move their crap out this weekend. It's so bloody expensive to put it out, what with the racket the damn bailiffs have going here. Detroit landlords should file a RICO suit.

 

[Omega]

Has this ever happened before?

MAbey since your putting out people so often you could work out a deal with a moving company.

 

[Bonhomme]

Actually not that often

Actually, most of the delinquent tenants have moved before I had to put them out.

My crew can take care of the trash for about as reasonable a rate as anybody, but it's still better they move out on their own. As for putting the stuff out, one has to use a court officer (bailiff). It's a legislated monopoly at about 3 times the rate it would cost if one could hire out their own crew to remove the stuff.

 

[Omega]

Wtf why?

 

[penkitten]

ok heres the deal...

i have been an onsight property manager for a family apartment complex that recieves hud subsidy consisting of 104 units, which are one , two and three bedroom for the past five years.
i dont make my company any money when i dont collect rents and i surely make them loose alot of money when i can not fill a vacant.
i have the most steady waiting list in my county. it takes between 4 to 9 months to move in , depending on what size unit they are in need of.
i mingle with the police department and the drug task force on a regular basis. you have no idea how a box of doughnuts goes a long way and makes a big impression.
i send flyers to chruches. i tape them on telephone boths and store windows.
i kiss ass in town to everyone i meet.
i dont keep vacants.


because of the subsidy that they recieve, lots of them dont even have rent, and some pay co payments that are extremely low.

i did so evict some woman that refused to pay her one dollar rent.
i did so evict some lady for not paying her 27 dollar rent this month.
if they come in and talk to me, i say ok so you cant pay your rent when its due , what exact day can it be paid? they tell me. i say ok i can wait two weeks, but you must pay in full with all late charges or at the end of that day i am filing eviction.
if i file eviction, that is it, i will no longer work with you.

if they do not pay a repair within the time limit and i have done all i can do, i file.
if they can not follow the rules after lease violations and an attorney letter, i file eviction.
if they are ever caught doing drugs, they are out out out!!!
i have only had one drug dealer even show up to court.
usually i take em in my office and say, get out or i will put you out.

if they do not get the hell out of the unit by the day the judge says, which is 7 days, i file for a set out. the set out day is set in like 15 days. when that day comes , if they are not out, i will go over with my 2 old maintenance men, we will have the sheriff stand there as the lock gets changed, and i will take every piece of crap they have and place it on the edge of the property, where they dont have to come back on my grounds to pick it up.
its then finders keepers.


every person has some excuse of blames someone else for something they did or failed to do. no one wants to take responsiblity during an eviction. YOu can not afford to be the nice guy and believe it all.

now go do what you gotta do .

 

[Omega]

Penkitten

As much as I just *love* women posting on this site (it entertains me), I actually enjoyed your post.

You do the exact same thing I would do, and that's both noble and credible.

You now have my respect.

 

[penkitten]

Originally posted by R3N3GAD3
Penkitten

As much as I just *love* women posting on this site (it entertains me), I actually enjoyed your post.

You do the exact same thing I would do, and that's both noble and credible.

You now have my respect.

ty very much for saying that...
see im not always an att *****

 

[Bonhomme]

Lucky you're in Kentucky

Great system for filling vacancies in apartments and multiple-family housing units, penkitten. If I had apartments in Kentucky I'd want you to manage them. If you were to work in Detroit you would need a crash course in the landlord/tenant laws, which are far more pro-tenant than what you're working with. A lot of the stuff you're doing could get you in big trouble here. It's about a 45 day process from sending the 7-day notice to the put-out date here, too.

Renting a few single-family houses is a way different ballgame than a 104-unit building that has vacancies coming up all the time. Most of the time there are no vacancies in any particular area, so a wait list is not really practical, because I'd spend way too much time fielding calls and maintaining the list when there are no vacancies. The good applicants really have their choice of the places here, and such people won't be wait-listed for long. The most efficient thing to do is to run an ad and set open house times.

Also, I tend to advertise a house high, and drop the rent every couple weeks until there is a good influx of applicants. So that causes a bit of delay if it's too high. But $50.00 per month adds up to a month's rent over a year for most of these houses, so that's just a matter of "bean-counting." Again, a particular house tends to come up for rent only once every several years, if even that. The market changes, and not uniformly throughout the city.

... when that day comes , if they are not out, i will go over with my 2 old maintenance men, we will have the sheriff stand there as the lock gets changed, and i will take every piece of crap they have and place it on the edge of the property, where they dont have to come back on my grounds to pick it up.

Lucky you're in Kentucky. You could be successfully sued for an illegal eviction for $200 per day for every day after the eviction until the tenant is allowed to regain possession plus 3 times the damages if you did that in Detroit. One has to use (and pay) the bailiff's crew to put the stuff out here. I can't touch the crap until it's on the curb and the bailiff's out of sight.

The "bean-counting" approach has worked out for the best in almost all cases, due to the high put-out costs here. Some landlords even pay tenants to move, but I have yet to do that, and wouldn't do it unless I bought an occupied property I wanted to quickly flip (vacant properties go for way more than problem rentals). But there are times I should have terminated tenants who were in a pattern of falling behind and catching up. I've always had an automatic rent increase for repeated lates, but it was rarely worth the hassle of filing against them again and again. Now I just don't rent to them in the first place, even if it means waiting.

In a multi-family unit, where every tenant sees how every other tenant is handled, it definitely makes more sense to follow a policy very strictly, even if it costs more in many individual instances. It will just save major headaches in the long run. A good on-site manager is a must.

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Re: Lucky you're in Kentucky

Originally posted by Bonhomme
If you were to work in Detroit you would need a crash course in the landlord/tenant laws, which are far more pro-tenant than what you're working with.

Don't I know it.

 

[penkitten]

Re: Lucky you're in Kentucky

Originally posted by Bonhomme




Lucky you're in Kentucky. You could be successfully sued for an illegal eviction for $200 per day for every day after the eviction until the tenant is allowed to regain possession plus 3 times the damages if you did that in Detroit. One has to use (and pay) the bailiff's crew to put the stuff out here. I can't touch the crap until it's on the curb and the bailiff's out of sight.

here, the judge says 7 days to vacate.
if no one has turned in the keys and they are still living there at the end of the seven days, i call the attorney , who files a set out with the sheriff department.
the sheriff's dept. sets a date to set them out.
when they do this , they post a notice on their door saying the day and time the set out is to happen.
at that day and time, the sheriff comes and gets me and my staff.
we go and change the locks while the sheriff stands there and then we proceed with a set out. this includes us taking their items and setting them on the lawn at the edge of the property.

this is legal procedure here.

 

[Bonhomme]

That's cool, penkitten.

How much do you have to pay the court officer?

How long between the filing date after your "pay or move" notice expires and the hearing date?

I just filed a non-payment complaint in Friday, and the hearing isn't until January 4 (!). Then they'll give the deadbeats 10 more days before I can file the writ to wait another 7 days or so for a call fom the bailiff if the deadbeat is still there (which I expect not, after the one in the other flat gets booted).

So over here it goes for non-payment, property damage ("health hazard"), or drug cases:
Day 1: Send 7-day notice. File for hearing 9 days later if notice was mailed (court assumes 2 days for local mail delivery). I always get a proof of mailing, so the tenant cannot challenge service. The court knows this notice is a formailty anyway.
Day 10-12 (depending upon when days 10-12 fall): file complaint to get a hearing date 10 - 24 days later.
Day 20-36 Get judgment. Tenant gets 10-12 days to pay, depending upon when weekends fall.
Day 30-48 Can file for writ to remove tenant. No longer have to accept rent at this point.
Day 32 to 70 or so sometimes longer (usually about day 45), , bailiff calls, and you can put them out. I've had writs sit for over a month. One of the judges at our court is certifiably senile, and takes forever to get to anything.

 

[penkitten]

Re: That's cool, penkitten.

Originally posted by Bonhomme
How much do you have to pay the court officer?

How long between the filing date after your "pay or move" notice expires and the hearing date?

I just filed a non-payment complaint in Friday, and the hearing isn't until January 4 (!). Then they'll give the deadbeats 10 more days before I can file the writ to wait another 7 days or so for a call fom the bailiff if the deadbeat is still there (which I expect not, after the one in the other flat gets booted).

for a regular non payment of rent:
rent is due on or before the first, with a five day grace period and late charges start on the sixth day of the month unless the fifth is a holiday or a weekend....
so i send out late notices on the fourth or whatever .. the last day to pay before late charges apply..
that notice says they have 8 days to pay. it is a hud form that is called lease termination "ultra"
on the ninth day, i call for court.
depends on when they have a court day open usually, and this time of year is looking like january or so before we get a date.
busy time of year.
then the judge gives seven days to vacate.
then if they arent out , we set up the set out that can take up to a month to get a scheduled date.


we pay the attorney all of our fees , they pay the court and we pay the attorney, and we bill whoever this resident was.
it can be as low as 54 bucks and as high as maybe 100 if there has to be a set out.

 

[penkitten]

on evictions that are for things like lease violations, drugs, subletting the units:
things are way different.

you have to send lease violations out and try to work with ppl.
basically if they do not do it again with in a time period of 15 days, you have to keep your resident.

if they break it again within the 15 days, you can have the attorney send his 15 day letter which costs us 54 bucks.

if they do not do anything you must keep them.
if they mess up again, you can set up court , which of course is when you can get one scheduled .
this costs maybe 68 or so.

but if you have to take witnesses , then it costs a great deal to supeona each one, so to save money, i go ask ppl to be there.
if they write a complaint, i tell them when its turned in, not to make one unless they are willing to go to court to testify.

but hud has passed a drug rule: called first strike.
if you are caught one time, it is grounds for eviction.




for damages that werent repaid: i send a lease violation for damaging the unit or defacing the property and then a bill which has to be paid within 30 days.
if not they get a delinqunet balance letter.
which gives 30 days.
then there goes an attorney letter giving 30 days and costing 54 bucks. i bill attorney fees to the resident.
then you file court, yada yada yada

 

[Bonhomme]

Deadbeats moved...

... but not without a bit of drama.

I went by the property on Monday to see if they were gone (they weren't yet), and the tenant in the other unit called me, asking if I'd wanted something. I told her to identify any stuff of hers in the basement, so it doesn't get tossed out when I put the other tenant's stuff out tomorrow.

That was like the cat climbing into the rat cage. The other tenant's mother called me, and was trying to scam all sorts of bull. She said she was going to call lawyers, yada, yada, and I told her the time would be better spent getting a truck. She got a hold of the bailiff, and said she wanted a couple more days to get the stuff out. I had a chat with the bailiff, who was willing to "cut me a deal" if he had to do a "dry run" (evicting an empty unit) for working things out. I was cool with it, and said I'd call him on Thursday if necessary.

But that wasn't all: a friend of the tenant even pretended to be interested in buying the house, evidently as a ruse to get me to allow the deadbeat to stay. I told her I'd be willing to sell the place, but I'm not working with the tenant any more. I've not heard from her since, of course.

I checked the place today, and they have indeed moved, with so little stuff remaining that I can just hold onto it for a month, and keep it if they don't contact me to get it back.

depends on when they have a court day open usually, and this time of year is looking like january or so before we get a date.

Yup. 'Tis the season.