"Tips for Snagging a Waitress II - The Barmaid"

PoachR75

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Anyone who knows about the subculture of the service industry will understand the value of Galactus' now classic post "Tips for Snagging a Waitress". It should be a great eye-opener for anyone who never worked in a restaurant of a bar. It occupies it's rightful place in the Don Juan Bible, and anyone who has not read it yet should DO SO NOW.

That being said, we turn to a close friend and coworker of the waitress, the barmaid. The barmaid is one of the most high profile and obvious targets in the restaurant or bar scene. She is often of above average attractiveness and she is in the a unique position...she must talk to every guy that approaches her. To attract a barmaid, a Don Juan must apply a unique set of tools and principles.

-THE BARMAID-

The Barmaid sits atop the social hierarchy of the restaurant or bar. She is often hired because of her looks and assertiveness. She gets pandered to by the majority of men that she deals with, both customers and coworkers. Many barmaids are friends of the owner or manager, and they enjoy the full support of the organization. The have no problem saying "no" to anyone; they are backed up by the managers/bouncers/other bar staff.
It should be said that the great majority of attractive barmaids have current boyfriends/husbands. If they do not have one when they are hired, they procure one shortly after being exposed to adoring guys night after night, week in and week out. Be prepared for the "boyfriend variable".
A great many barmaids work several part-time jobs, many are students, and some have one or more children. It is the perfect job for attractive women who wish to make a decent amount of money for a nights work. It is also a great job for attention *hores. Keep all of these things in mind when doing the approach.

-THE APPROACH-

As we all know, a Don Juan must find a way to stand out, to be mysterious and different. Nowhere is this more important when you are one of dozens (or hundreds) of guys that a barmaid must deal with on any particular shift. The barmaid is on guard against the player and the AFC. She gets asked out quite a bit, and it is off-putting when a guy she hardly knows makes an early break for the digits. To make yourself more competetive, you have to get away from the "cold start" situation. You must become an INSIDER.
INSIDERS are her coworkers, her friends, and her coworker's friends. They are the regulars at the bar that are well-liked and fun. INSIDERS are other service industry staff that she knows that come to her establishment to unwind after they get off work. OUTSIDERS are ... everyone else.
An INSIDER with Don Juan savvy will attract a barmaid with more success than an OUTSIDER with looks, nice clothes, or money. An INSIDER is a friend, a confidente', someone the barmaid has a rapport of fun and trust with. An OUTSIDER is, well, a STRANGER.
The subculture of the restaurant/bar industry is like a big family. They work together, flirt together, chat together, and go out after the shift together. It is a very tight-knit social circle, not easily broken by those who can't relate. Not easily broken by the guy that just walked into the bar with a nice sweater and deep pockets, either. No matter how good of a Don Juan that you are, the tools are only so effective across that barrier of wood that may as well be a brick wall. The most effective way to get your shot is to back-door it. Become an INSIDER first, then DJ her.
To attract a barmaid, you must initiate a long range plan. Barmaids get hit on and asked out all the time. They shoot guys down left and right, and sometimes get frustrated because they are not there to pick up guys, THEY ARE THERE BECAUSE THEY MAKE A CRAPLOAD OF MONEY TO FLIRT WITH GUYS. Don't be one of these guys. Read "Tips/Waitress I" for how to be an ideal customer, one that doesn't act like an AFC and misinterpret signals that aren't there.
A basic axiom is that you cannot see a beautiful girl and "make" her like you. This rule is multiplied a hundredfold when dealing with a barmaid. They choose who they date and when. They almost always agree to date GUYS THAT THEY KNOW AND TRUST. Guys that they know not to be losers or nutcases. They date INSIDERS.

-BECOMING AN INSIDER-

There are two basic ways to become an insider:

1. Really get inside - work there, or know someone who does. If you are in college, get a job serving or tending bar for extra cash. If you have another job, get a few bar shifts a week somewhere. It is an ideal way to make extra money and expand your social network at the same time. These are two things that you should be doing ANYWAY. With the expanded social circle of the restaurants, bars, and nightclubs in a town, six months at a part-time job can be just what you need to break out of a slump. Just be your Don Juan self and see what happens. And for god sake, DON'T ask out every girl in joint after two weeks. Just play it cool, have a life outside of the girls there, and see who likes you. If you are a constantly evolving DJ, someone will.
The next best thing is to have a friend who works at her restaurant, or get one. Visit them at work sometimes. Get together with them and go out. Let their coworkers become your friends. Find out where all restaurant people go to unwind after work, be it another restaurant, bar, or after-hours club.

2. Become a "regular". This is the process that is probably more realistic for the average guy. It is, however, a delicate process. Some regulars are alcoholics, losers, and *ssholes. You must be the regular that she LIKES.
The fundamentals of being a likeable customer are parallel to the fundamentals of being a good DJ conversationalist. Ask open-ended questions. Let her talk about herself and how her night is going. Talk less than her. Have a good sense of humor; develope your timing, sense of irony, and knowledge of current events.
Here are the essentials to becoming a regular who is on his way to being an INSIDER:

A. A regular visits semi-often, but almost always has a particular reason for coming in. Do not be a stalker. Galactus suggested you know the difference between a regular customer and a stalker, and I reiterate. Be with a close friend for a quiet night out to discuss some minor business. Be there to watch the football game if is Sunday. Be there for happy hour with coworkers if it is Friday. Be there to celebrate something.
You MUST NOT APPEAR ON THE MAKE. Avoid this at all costs.

B. If possible, be there during the same time of day frequently, so the staff will get used to you on a timetable. It will show that you have a scheduled life and the people working at those times will get used to seeing you.

C. Have "a drink". You should order the same thing as much as possible. This serves two purposes: It will help the barmaid and staff remember you, and it will make it easier to wait on you. They will like this. I suggest bottled beer, preferrably a microbrew or import, or a mixed drink with "middle shelf" liquor. Believe it or not, you are a more desirable customer if you do not shift gears every time you come in. She'll already be pouring your drink when you'll say "No, I think I'll have something FANCY tonight...". They hate this, it makes them have to think and work harder - things that you don't want them to associate with you.
Don't drink shots, unless you are with a bunch of friends who are celebrating or toasting something, and then only one. Shots cause you to end up out of control, and a DJ is never out of control.
And, for gosh sakes, never blurt out "What's the drink special?" or "I'll have whatever's on special". If you are going to do that, why don't you wear a scarlet letter "C" for cheap (and then hit on the ugliest girl at the bar in front of the barmaid to show that you have no standards).

D. Never get drunk, or allow a friend to do so. If one does, do not bring him to the bar with you again.

E. Sometimes order food and sometimes don't. Unlike drinks, do not order the same thing every time. You want to appear as if you like variety and you have a refined palate.

E. Tip as you normally would for good service. 20-25% and be consistant. DO NOT OVERTIP! This cannot be expressed strongly enough. As Galactus said, overtipping makes you appear overeager and as if you are trying to impress. A Don Juan respects himself and he will tip good for good service, great for great service, and he will ABSOLUTELY NOT tip ridiculously for ANY kind of service (unless it includes a "hummer" by the dumpster).
The safest way to tip in this situation is to tip the same percent every time, no matter what. Anything else and you either look cheap or desparate. This next bit is very important *THE BARMAID WILL NOT WANT TO DATE YOU SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU TIP HER WELL* All guys tip her well, SHE'S A HOTTIE> There is no relationship between your tips and her interest. Brad Pitt may leave 50 cents, but she'd still date him.
If one of your friends is not tipping, prompt him in a classy way. Do not be obnoxious about it. Do not say "Tip her. Look at her, she's a BABE!". Say, "Dude, have some respect, these folks work".

F. Respect her coworkers; treat (and tip) them well. They all talk in the back and, if your name comes up, you want favorable input. Do not work more than one girl in any single bar or restaurant. It is advisable to not ask an employee personal questions about your target before you are a regular at the least and preferably an INSIDER.

G. DJ the bar. If you are talking to her and it's going very well, excuse yourself and LEAVE. Come back at another time. This makes you look busy and lets you control the interaction between the two of you. Never sit there through her entire shift.
Be unavailable sometimes. Fuel the mystery. If your friends leave, YOU LEAVE. And don't act like you are going home and come back around closing time like "hey!". If you do this I will either find you and kill you or steal your diary so that Giovanni can have his way with it and post it on this website. COMING BACK TO SEE A GIRL TWICE DURING ONE SHIFT IS AFC!

H. Social proof the bar. Do not hesitate to show up with female friends and even dates. This will never work against you, unless she is ugly.

-ITEMS THAT DO NOT INDICATE INTEREST-

The following is a list of behaviors that are fundamental to a barmaid making good tips and being popular. They are not credible indicators of interest level in a barmaid:

- Smiling
- Flirting
- Being promp with service
- Suggesting drinks or menu items
- Impersonal small talk

A good test to apply to a barmaids BEHAVIOR to determine if there is any interest in you: Ask yourself "Is what she is doing something that I would do if I was simply trying to get a better tip from a customer of the opposite sex?" If the answer is YES, the behavior is not a credible indicator of interest. For example, showing you a bar trick, telling you a joke, or giving you directions to another bar are not credible indicators of interest. Asking you if you have been to the new dance club in town and inviting you to go with her and her friends after work MAY be an indicator of interest. (maybe)

-INDICATORS OF BECOMING AN INSIDER (or "regular")-

The following may be signals that you are inside and may be a trusted and liked regular in good standing:

1. She remembers your drink every time. "The usual?"

2. She gives you free drinks occasionally. Many restaurants allow bar staff to give out a certain number of free drinks per shift to regulars. INSIDERS get these drinks.

3. She gives you free drinks or food that was mixed or ordered by accident. INSIDERS get these, also.

4. She returns to your area of the bar to chat when she has free time. Watch her location subtly, if she gravitates at the other end, she is either not interested in you or afraid of you (lol).

5. She asks you personal questions (unprompted), or comments on something personal that she remembers from a past conversation ("How was your grandmother's spleen operation on arbor day?").

6. She asks your friends personal questions about you while you're in the restroom ("Does he have a girlfriend?").

7. She comes to you and makes fun of other customers to make you both laugh.

8. She subtly tells you what her shifts are and when she works (without you asking (and don't)).

9. She tells you where the crew from the restaurant hangs out after work (or, *ka-ching*, invites you).

_____________________________________________


If you are a casual customer, work the barmaid slowly and get INSIDE if you can. If you are INSIDE, work it straightforward (as if she was a girl from work or class) and Don Juan her aggressively. If you get the digits, DO NOT show up at the restaurant before you call her the first time! It is like calling her right after she's given you the number - You have indicated your interest and the next time you come in, whether the next day or the next month, she will conclude that it is to see her. If it is the next day....STALKER STALKER STALKER!!
Do not ask out any more than one girl at any one establishment in any 6 month period. If you ask out more than one, you'll appear desperate and ready to settle for anyone. THIS WILL GET AROUND AMONG THE STAFF and ruin all your hard work getting INSIDE.

IF YOU DO GO ON A DATE

All the other DJ principles apply, with this addition *** DO NOT TAKE HER WHERE SHE WORKS OR TO A RESTAURANT *** She is SICK of restaurants! Take her somewhere different and exciting. Action dates apply.

(Galactus, you must know some barmaids. How'd I do?)

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"We've got a blind date with destiny, and it looks like she's ordered the lobster. There's no point in waiting for the cavalry, because, as of this moment, the cavalry is US."
-- The Shoveler, "Mystery Men"

[This message has been edited by PoachR75 (edited 03-19-2002).]

[This message has been edited by PoachR75 (edited 03-19-2002).]

[This message has been edited by PoachR75 (edited 03-19-2002).]

[This message has been edited by PoachR75 (edited 03-19-2002).]

[This message has been edited by PoachR75 (edited 03-19-2002).]
 

bartender

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I am a waiter. I know some barmaids and you are right about this Poach.

Nice post
 

crowes22

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Hey this is a good post man. I've been shot down a number of times by barmaids and alot of the things you said don't do, I was doing. (not the 2 visits in a shift deal thank goodness)

But I like the 'insider' analogy, that's true. These girls are hit on a hundred times a shift by chumps.
 

Galactus

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Poach: So far I have only skimmed this post. I promise to read it much more thoroughly within the next 24 hours, but time is at a premium right now, and I want to make sure I've absorbed everything, and then have the time to give it the response it deserves.

What I have read seems right on the money. I would form questions as I was reading, and then you would answer them. No flies on you. I do know a couple female bartenders, but I don't think that makes me an expert.

One thing that can just not be said enough, is that you need to become at least a semi-regular who appears to have a life. Don't let her think you came there just to see her.

Last night I went out with a waitress I work with, and let's just add her the list of waitresses who have told me this: They are not impressed by your big tips. They are not flattered by your excessive attention. They are not thinking about you after you walk out the door. What they are doing is laughing at you, being totally bored by you, and hoping you'll come back soon with another walletfull of money for them.

Find a pretty waitress and ask her yourself, just in the interest of science. She will tell you that most guys that try too hard bore her. Don't be the chump that she sees a hundred times a day. Be different, be different, be different. Be different, be different, be different.

That's the number one thing that's going to impress her.

Looks good, Poach. I promise to give it a closer read as soon as I can.

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"For anybody who's on the downside of advantage and relying purely on courage... it's possible."
- Russell Crowe
 

Galactus

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Okay, I read it all.

This all rings true to me. A few observations I would like to add:

It's not always easy to guage her interest level if she's working for tips, so it might help to observe how she acts with other customers. She will be nice to everyone, but you can't hide real enthusiasm. Nice is one thing. I do it all the time at work. Warm and friendly is another thing. I do it at work with the chicks I'm really attracted to. This is where being a regluar helps. You can't always judge her interest by one night.

Poach is right about being an insider. I have these two customers, a guy and his girlfriend, who ask to be seated in my section every Friday night. I like them and they like me. Here's why:

They're fat and ugly. They have piercings and tattoos all over, bizarre hairstyles and colors. The first time I saw them I freaked out and was repulsed, but I didn't show it. They're very nice, intelligent people, and I treated them with respect. I imagine they don't always get that. I can usually predict what they want to order, and I make sure they get what they want. Occasionally they leave a big tip, but sometimes not so big. They're doing everything right. They're controlling things by tipping me just enough to assure good service, but not so much that I'm going to get lazy and just assume I'll get a great tip. They tip appropriately. It's a good relationship. Everybody's happy.

Because we've developed mutual respect, I'm more inclined to do things for them. Sometimes I don't add the drinks to the bill. If I'm too busy to do everything for every customer, I still make sure I'm not too busy for them. Doing things for them makes me like them more. It's called cognitive distortion. My subconscious tells me that I wouldn't do things for people if I didn't like them, so I must like these people.

Also, I'm flattered. They like me for one reason only: because I'm a good waiter. If you want to impress a waitress or barmaid, you should subtly let it be known that it's her service that's appreciated, not her tits.

And don't throw money around, thinking it will impress her. She knows you're just blowing your paycheck, and going home with empty pockets. But she'll be happy to relieve you of some of that cash, you chump.

One last thing. Being a regular doesn't make you look like an AFC if you show up at the same day and time every week. It makes you look like someone with a regular schedule, but you like this place so much that you've made it part of your weekly routine. You actually appear to have a life, even if you don't.

Some excellent insights there, Poach. It's great to see that some guys do get it.

------------------
"For anybody who's on the downside of advantage and relying purely on courage... it's possible."
- Russell Crowe
 

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PoachR75

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BUMPed for Tyler Durden
 

PoachR75

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oohh
BUMPED again
 

Smile

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I agree with the stuff said here, im a barman and so i know this stuff, lol, a fair few hot girls work the bar where i work and on busy nights (such as fridays and saturdays) they constantly have confident guys trying all sorts of ways to get the number, the ones i don't overhear i get to laugh at later when they share stories. The best way to be is friendly and generally get to know all the bar staff, the girl will think your more genuine and just gradually got to like her if your getting to know everyone else there at the same time. Also, if it doesn't work out then sometimes nothing you could have tried would work, by the end of a shift im tired and no doubt everyone else is, she may just not be bothered and not want to know you for any reason to do with work.
 

untamed tiger

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I have to say that Poach is correct. I just have to add what I learned about barmaids.

I spent nearly ten years hanging out in bars. I’ve PU, been PU, rejected, stood up, propositioned by married, and just about everything else by barmaids.

The common factor that I saw in these women was they crossed the line of being flirtatious. They almost always let you know that they are interested by being overly direct. I had one who asks me to join her for dinner after her shift, and then later said “Your place or mine”. I even got conned into the back room to get ice. I should have seen that one coming, I got mauled in the back room. I can’t complain, made out with another in the same back room. I teased one about wearing a bowtie, it was part of her uniform, she took it off, snuck up behind me and shoved it into my front pocket.

You will know when she wants you.


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"You can marry more money in a minute, than you can earn in a lifetime." Dr. Sells (My Great-Grandfather)
 
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