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Time to debunk "The Wall", the biggest cope among the manosphere

Modern Man Advice

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The Wall has been a commonly used term amongst the manosphere and the reason guys use it is that it's just a huge cope for bitter men. The average man above 30 does not look like this chiseled Greek God that the manosphere preaches and the average 30-year-old woman does not look like some fat post crack addict.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the wall actually applies to men more than women.

Why?


The wall is literally 90% about weight for women. For example, a woman can hit the wall at 21 because of the freshman 40 she got from college.

For a guy, a guy has to be in great shape and make more money as he gets older. A guy in his 30s has to have his **** together to be attractive, while a woman just has to look healthy and presentable. And don't go and tell me men don't find older women attractive because that's a bunch of bull shvt lol.

But Children?


Agreed, women have less chance of conceiving a child the older they get but do your average guy 40 and older really care about children that much? I don't have any stats, but I doubt the average 50-year-old guy is hell-bent on having more kids.
I agree the wall applies to both sexes, just not sure about the wall being 90% about weight. I thought this whole time, the wall as strictly referred to intersexual dynamics/procreation when a person is not on prime condition to procreate which is the nature and ultimate goal of humanity. So when women have fewer and fewer chances to procreate and the risk of birth gets higher and higher with age (35 and onwards) that's when her biological wall nears. At least that's how I understood it to be.

Men have a wall as well, just not one that refers to procreation as men can have spread their sperm up until their death. Men's wall is definitely more physical/appearance as you stated is for women. But even then that can change with a little effort.

My two cents.

Modern Man Advice
 

AttackFormation

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I agree the wall applies to both sexes, just not sure about the wall being 90% about weight. I thought this whole time, the wall as strictly referred to intersexual dynamics/procreation when a person is not on prime condition to procreate which is the nature and ultimate goal of humanity. So when women have fewer and fewer chances to procreate and the risk of birth gets higher and higher with age (35 and onwards) that's when her biological wall nears. At least that's how I understood it to be.

Men have a wall as well, just not one that refers to procreation as men can have spread their sperm up until their death. Men's wall is definitely more physical/appearance as you stated is for women. But even then that can change with a little effort.

My two cents.

Modern Man Advice
I think this is a meaningless definition of "the wall", because humans are: 1) interdependent, 2) not just mechanistic biology but psychology.

In other words the person you want to have sex with also needs to want it back, and the reasons why they would or wouldnt want it are psychological, not just whether it's technically possible or not biologically. So it doesnt matter that a 50 year old man can technically impregnate a 20 year old woman if that woman doesnt want to fvck him (unless he is some sort of violent antisocial bent on impregnation).

"The wall" for either gender and any individual is simply when the people theyre still attracted to, who used to be attracted back, are no longer attracted to them.
 
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HaleyBaron

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I think this is a meaningless definition of "the wall", because humans are: 1) interdependent, 2) not just mechanistic biology but psychology.

In other words the person you want to have sex with also needs to want it back, and the reasons why they would or wouldnt want it are psychological, not just whether it's technically possible or not biologically. So it doesnt matter that a 50 year old man can technically impregnate a 20 year old woman if that woman doesnt want to fvck him (unless he is some sort of violent antisocial bent on impregnation).

"The wall" for either gender and any individual is simply when the people theyre still attracted to, who used to be attracted back, are no longer attracted to them.
Except there's enough rich old guys ****ing 20 year olds to make this not true. There is no inherent wall for men. As long as they have resources, they have access to most women, including young girls. Young girls do hook up with older guys. Vice versa, that is rarily the case.
 

Focal core

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The wall used to exist, now it doesn't bc women's intrinsic value is now stratospheric compared to before. The wall still applies to mental health though, many women are undatable from all the baggage.
Thanks to all the simps who cant get pvssy .. Simping to death Broo keep on going one day you will get her.
 

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AttackFormation

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Except there's enough rich old guys ****ing 20 year olds to make this not true. There is no inherent wall for men. As long as they have resources, they have access to most women, including young girls. Young girls do hook up with older guys. Vice versa, that is rarily the case.
Im not talking about prostitution mate.
 

HaleyBaron

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Im not talking about prostitution mate.
I didn't mention prostitution. Women willingly do it, and I don't call gold digging prostitution.

Ironically, I do think men who become beholden to rich women for sex are acting like prostitutes.
 

Pan87

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While I agree that it's more difficult for older women to meet quality man, I think the "wall" applies to men more than it applies to women.
Older women may not find the super hot guy with money (top tier men) but they can easily find a regular guy with a good job who would be a good father. Most guys don't have much luck with women, so any women who look "ok" would be a good catch. We see this on OLD already, average men going for the ugly ones. Nothing new. So women can still find a guy with whom they can settle down, by a house and have a family, live a comfortable life. They won't get the top tier men but but they still can do pretty well.

Men have less chance, even if they look good, have their "sh1ts together" (it's subjective) the age barrier will play against them most of the time. I'm 35, looks like 26-27, good shape, stylish, look good, I date 21-27yo girls. The attraction slowly deteriorate when they discover my age. Women are easily influenced by their peers and society. Age gaps are not well seen in our society, especially for women dating older men. A guy too old has the same effect as a guy too short: "Yes he's a really cool guy, but I don't know.." He's just a bit too short (he's just a bit too old). Yes, you can still date girls in their 20s as you get older, but it's gonna happen less and less and less. The age barrier is real. Young women in their 20s are more likely to date men of their age or a bit older, it doesn't matter if those men don't have their **** together, it looks normal, society considers that it's normal. Women also have expectations, at 35 you should own a flat, drive a nice car, make money.. it's not the case for a lot of 30something even 40 men.

As older men, you can still date young women, but you have more work to do, the age factor plays against us. I began to notice a difference when I reached 33, now I'm 35 and I can feel it, I'm just a bit too old. Not impossible but it's not gonna get better with time. Of course if you are older, look like a GQ model, drive a Maserati, own a penthouse downtown, travel all the time to nice places it's easier. But most of us don't live like that. We are regular guys.

My opinion.
Why does she ever need to know what your age is?

Build a deep attachment first. Women only care about your age if you care about your age. What's killing their attraction is your belief that you are too old, which then fvcks your confidence and vibe. Confidence is everything, man.

You need to start channeling Jack Nicholson ;-)
 

mikedee

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Why does she ever need to know what your age is?

Build a deep attachment first. Women only care about your age if you care about your age. What's killing their attraction is your belief that you are too old, which then fvcks your confidence and vibe. Confidence is everything, man.

You need to start channeling Jack Nicholson ;-)
Not a confidence thing really, I'm confident on dates, I've dated so many.. Some girls are really annoying about that, it's almost harassment, they want to know. If I thought I was too old I wouldn't approach and date girls in their 20s. What I believe doesn't matter, it's what they believe that matters, THEY decide if they are going to sleep with you. When they ask me my age I ask them how old they think I am, they say 30 for example, then I say then I'm 30 and then they keep asking until it become annoying, they have to know because for them it's important. I've noticed that if I tell them right off the bat like it's nothing, like I'm telling her my name, it doesn't work. During the date they don't mind about my age, but the next day when she wakes up she is going to start thinking about me and do a mental list of pros and cons to decide if she is going to see me again, age is a con, not a huge one but still a con. I don't care about being 35, but I care about the fact that it plays against me. Actually I have no idea how to deal with that (any suggestions?). Telling her the truth right away, lie and keep lying, play games and don't tell her, date older women (fvck no)? I study at the university with 18-19yo girls, they send IOIs all the time, but I'm just too old, they may fantasize about the older guy, but they will not act most of the time. Psychological barrier. Like I said, it can happen, but you shouldn't wait for that.

It's my opinion only, but I doubt a lot of regular guys in their mid/late-30s get laid with a lot of early 20s girls, unless they look like god, drive super cars and make a lot of money so they can support the lifestyle girls in their early 20s want. If you don't have that, those girls have options, younger options.

Come on man, those actors, singers whatever are superstar, they have status money reputation talent. They live in another reality, not our reality. I'm pretty sure Jack Nicholson had a blast when he was younger but now he doesnt fvck hot young girls in their 20s in pretty sure, maybe the gold diggers or the ones who want a sugar daddy.
 

Pan87

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Not a confidence thing really, I'm confident on dates, I've dated so many.. Some girls are really annoying about that, it's almost harassment, they want to know. If I thought I was too old I wouldn't approach and date girls in their 20s. What I believe doesn't matter, it's what they believe that matters, THEY decide if they are going to sleep with you. When they ask me my age I ask them how old they think I am, they say 30 for example, then I say then I'm 30 and then they keep asking until it become annoying, they have to know because for them it's important. I've noticed that if I tell them right off the bat like it's nothing, like I'm telling her my name, it doesn't work. During the date they don't mind about my age, but the next day when she wakes up she is going to start thinking about me and do a mental list of pros and cons to decide if she is going to see me again, age is a con, not a huge one but still a con. I don't care about being 35, but I care about the fact that it plays against me. Actually I have no idea how to deal with that (any suggestions?). Telling her the truth right away, lie and keep lying, play games and don't tell her, date older women (fvck no)? I study at the university with 18-19yo girls, they send IOIs all the time, but I'm just too old, they may fantasize about the older guy, but they will not act most of the time. Psychological barrier. Like I said, it can happen, but you shouldn't wait for that.

It's my opinion only, but I doubt a lot of regular guys in their mid/late-30s get laid with a lot of early 20s girls, unless they look like god, drive super cars and make a lot of money so they can support the lifestyle girls in their early 20s want. If you don't have that, those girls have options, younger options.

Come on man, those actors, singers whatever are superstar, they have status money reputation talent. They live in another reality, not our reality. I'm pretty sure Jack Nicholson had a blast when he was younger but now he doesnt fvck hot young girls in their 20s in pretty sure, maybe the gold diggers or the ones who want a sugar daddy.
If chicks are nexting you or fading on your because of your supposed old age then that's just low interest. And it's not your problem. Most chicks drift off after you bang them a few times. It's normal. Especially if you're living in a big, modern Western city.

You're doing the right thing by not answering her questions. It's none of her business how old or young you are. She's entitled to know exactly nothing about you.

Every time I see a woman, I assume that I may never see her again. It's always "in the moment" for me. Men are highly, highly disposable these days and a woman can c0ck hop at a moments notice and you can't do nothing about it.

Maybe they sense you are trying to keep them around and this is off-putting? Women are very intuitive. You literally have to not give af about women to be successful with women, particularly in our modern ultra hypergamous world.

If you're banging them, then who cares? It's your job to bang, it's up to her if she wants to stick around. You have no control over it.
The minute a woman thinks that you value her she's thinking "Lol. Simp. I can do better obviously." - it's just how they are.
 

Pan87

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It's my opinion only, but I doubt a lot of regular guys in their mid/late-30s get laid with a lot of early 20s girls, unless they look like god, drive super cars and make a lot of money so they can support the lifestyle girls in their early 20s want. If you don't have that, those girls have options, younger options.

Come on man, those actors, singers whatever are superstar, they have status money reputation talent. They live in another reality, not our reality. I'm pretty sure Jack Nicholson had a blast when he was younger but now he doesnt fvck hot young girls in their 20s in pretty sure, maybe the gold diggers or the ones who want a sugar daddy.
Totally disagree. Women love experienced dudes.

But if you go around with the attitude that "Women in their 20's don't like men in their 30's" then think about how this is going to effect your confidence and swag. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy mate. If you don't believe in yourself, nobody else will.
 

mikedee

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Totally disagree. Women love experienced dudes.

But if you go around with the attitude that "Women in their 20's don't like men in their 30's" then think about how this is going to effect your confidence and swag. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy mate. If you don't believe in yourself, nobody else will.
I didn't say that, I said it's more difficult. I still date younger girls, but it's more difficult than when I was 20-30, it's just a fact. Not impossible, more difficult I said. Fortunately I look good, I'm tall and good shape (working on it), it helps.

I think you're right, I shouldn'T tell them my age at all. What happens is that I give up and tell them, not good I think.
 

LoboSolitario

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Well in the animal kingdom beta males are ruthlessly killed off by Alpha Males. Look at male lions for example, they are tossed out of the pride so the alpha can have all the women to himself.
This is not necessarily true. I'm not sure what documentaries you are watching or if you are consuming too much red pill content and it's going to your ego (Don't take that as an attack it's just an observation. A lot of red pill content is designed to pump up the male's ego. AMS has this down to a t. He pumps the ego up and guys leave with an ego boost, a kind of high, but nothing lasting)

Anyway, look at wolves.

It there is a fight whoever comes out the weaker will offer his throat. The stronger will decline the invitation to kill him as he is needed in the pack. They are social.

Chimpanzees: There will be a hierarchical structure with a lead male. When he gets brought down it's usually be a coalition working together. Machiavellian style.

I notice you write alpha male in capital letters and beta male in small letters. This gives away the fact that your ego is at play.

Imagine humans did this? Beta males should be glad we haven't wiped them out (though with onlyfans simps I'm starting to think we should).
Kill all betas, Mr Alpha? Hahahaha. I like your confirmation bias.
 

Pan87

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I didn't say that, I said it's more difficult. I still date younger girls, but it's more difficult than when I was 20-30, it's just a fact. Not impossible, more difficult I said. Fortunately I look good, I'm tall and good shape (working on it), it helps.

I think you're right, I shouldn'T tell them my age at all. What happens is that I give up and tell them, not good I think.
That's weird because I find dating girls in their early 20's easier than ever because I now have experience and know how important the verbal Game is. Age, looks etc just doesn't mean a whole lot to women. That sort of stuff is way more important to men.

What's important to women is how you make them "feel". Feelzzzzzz

I'm the same as you - Tall, good shape and look about 27. I'm telling you man it's absolutely all down to your mindset. If I'm not feeling confident/worthy/or doubting myself I bang absolutely NOBODY. It's insane how powerful a sense of entitlement and supreme, almost irrational, confidence has.
 

mikedee

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That's weird because I find dating girls in their early 20's easier than ever because I now have experience and know how important the verbal Game is. Age, looks etc just doesn't mean a whole lot to women. That sort of stuff is way more important to men.

What's important to women is how you make them "feel". Feelzzzzzz

I'm the same as you - Tall, good shape and look about 27. I'm telling you man it's absolutely all down to your mindset. If I'm not feeling confident/worthy/or doubting myself I bang absolutely NOBODY. It's insane how powerful a sense of entitlement and supreme, almost irrational, confidence has.
Dating them is easier, fvcking them is more tricky. My experience.
 

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Pan87

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This is not necessarily true. I'm not sure what documentaries you are watching or if you are consuming too much red pill content and it's going to your ego (Don't take that as an attack it's just an observation. A lot of red pill content is designed to pump up the male's ego. AMS has this down to a t. He pumps the ego up and guys leave with an ego boost, a kind of high, but nothing lasting)

Anyway, look at wolves.

It there is a fight whoever comes out the weaker will offer his throat. The stronger will decline the invitation to kill him as he is needed in the pack. They are social.

Chimpanzees: There will be a hierarchical structure with a lead male. When he gets brought down it's usually be a coalition working together. Machiavellian style.

I notice you write alpha male in capital letters and beta male in small letters. This gives away the fact that your ego is at play.



Kill all betas, Mr Alpha? Hahahaha. I like your confirmation bias.
Beta males are absolutely needed. But they should be banned from associating with women, as is TRUE in the animal kingdom. A beta comes around for a sniff and the alpha chases him off as if to say "That's not for you mate. Go pick some berries instead."

Betas are salt of the earth, and should fulfill their rightful role in raising the alpha male's kids. Which is essentially what is happening today anyway if you've read Sperm Wars.
 

Pan87

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Dating them is easier, fvcking them is more tricky. My experience.
You shouldn't be dating them. First mistake there (and one I've made many times).

You basically want to be getting her into bed as quickly as possible. If you're taking her on dates she is literally thinking "Wtf? Simp". That's how the modern woman thinks. Get used to it.

The "date" should be ideally straight to your place for wine, or meeting for a coffee near to your place with the plan of bouncing her back to your place to view your private art collection or whatever other bullsh1t you care to come up with. As long as you sexualise things over coffee, and escalate the right way, then she'll follow you.
 

mikedee

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You shouldn't be dating them. First mistake there (and one I've made many times).

You basically want to be getting her into bed as quickly as possible. If you're taking her on dates she is literally think "Wtf? Simp". That's literally how the modern woman thinks. Get used to it.

The "date" should be ideally straight to your place for wine, or meeting for a coffee near to your place with the plan of bouncing her back to your place.
This is what I used to do back home, bang them on the first date or the second max. In Russia, it doesn't work like that unfortunately, you have to date them a few times and there is no guarantee.. It's just the way it is and trust me I know what I'm talking about. What a nightmare...
 

Pan87

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This is what I used to do at home, bang them on the first date or the second max. In Russia, it doesn't work like that unfortunately, you have to date them a few times.. It's just the way it is and trust me I know what I'm talking about. What a nightmare...
Yeah fvck Russia. I find Russian women spooky, personally. They look good, but I know they secretly have underground torture chambers where they eat tourists. Just like Hostel. I hate the accent too.

Also, Russians are absolute wh0res. Don't fall for it. Women, universally, are all roughly the same and respond to the same stuff.

In Dubai, where I lived for a several years, Russians were some of the easiest slvts in town (there's a heavy Ukraine and Russian population there). They do the whole "ice queen" act and pretend they are conservative. It's absolute bullsh1t. They will guzzle your cvm the minute you start teasing them. Russians seem very susceptable to teasing and negging I've found - probably because they come from such a humorless and depressing culture.

I have a mate in London who targets Russian women for this very reason - they are so hackable.
 

Zimbabwe

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This is not necessarily true. I'm not sure what documentaries you are watching or if you are consuming too much red pill content and it's going to your ego (Don't take that as an attack it's just an observation. A lot of red pill content is designed to pump up the male's ego. AMS has this down to a t. He pumps the ego up and guys leave with an ego boost, a kind of high, but nothing lasting)

Anyway, look at wolves.

It there is a fight whoever comes out the weaker will offer his throat. The stronger will decline the invitation to kill him as he is needed in the pack. They are social.

Chimpanzees: There will be a hierarchical structure with a lead male. When he gets brought down it's usually be a coalition working together. Machiavellian style.

I notice you write alpha male in capital letters and beta male in small letters. This gives away the fact that your ego is at play.



Kill all betas, Mr Alpha? Hahahaha. I like your confirmation bias.
In the majority of the animal kingdom males fight each other for breeding rights with the females, let's use lobsters,Elephant seals,Deers and roosters as an example. Of course we have expections like male bees and ants who literally exist just to have s*x with the queen.

Of course the more intelligent animals like humans work together, a successful group always has an Alpha at the top(When has a beta wolf ever led the pack?).

As long as a guy isn't simping and is dedicated to self improvement, he can become an alpha male in my eyes
 
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