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Time to debunk "The Wall", the biggest cope among the manosphere

Jake_Gyllenhaal69

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The Wall has been a commonly used term amongst the manosphere and the reason guys use it is that it's just a huge cope for bitter men. The average man above 30 does not look like this chiseled Greek God that the manosphere preaches and the average 30-year-old woman does not look like some fat post crack addict.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the wall actually applies to men more than women.

Why?


The wall is literally 90% about weight for women. For example, a woman can hit the wall at 21 because of the freshman 40 she got from college.

For a guy, a guy has to be in great shape and make more money as he gets older. A guy in his 30s has to have his **** together to be attractive, while a woman just has to look healthy and presentable. And don't go and tell me men don't find older women attractive because that's a bunch of bull shvt lol.

But Children?


Agreed, women have less chance of conceiving a child the older they get but do your average guy 40 and older really care about children that much? I don't have any stats, but I doubt the average 50-year-old guy is hell-bent on having more kids.
 

DJsomeday

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I think "The Wall" should be more individual than a blanket term for everyone, I'm sure we've all seen a fair bunch of hotties absolutely lose their attractiveness as they got older. Not gonna happen to everyone, sure, but not gonna happen to no one either.
 

zekko

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A guy in his 30s has to have his **** together to be attractive, while a woman just has to look healthy and presentable.
The good news is that it isn't that difficult for a guy to have his **** together. He just needs to put in the work to improve in his 20s. And it isn't that hard for a guy in his 30s to stay in shape either. Also, men stay attractive longer than women, generally speaking. A guy in his 40s can easily date girls in their 20s. You don't see many 40 year old females dating guys in their 20s.
 

Snag87

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The good news is that it isn't that difficult for a guy to have his **** together. He just needs to put in the work to improve in his 20s. And it isn't that hard for a guy in his 30s to stay in shape either. Also, men stay attractive longer than women, generally speaking. A guy in his 40s can easily date girls in their 20s. You don't see many 40 year old females dating guys in their 20s.
True, but keep in mind men find women in their early 20s most attractive regardless of their age. Women are most attracted to men around their own age.
 

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Jake_Gyllenhaal69

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The good news is that it isn't that difficult for a guy to have his **** together. He just needs to put in the work to improve in his 20s. And it isn't that hard for a guy in his 30s to stay in shape either. Also, men stay attractive longer than women, generally speaking. A guy in his 40s can easily date girls in their 20s. You don't see many 40 year old females dating guys in their 20s.
The average income for men isn't over six figures lol. It is by far easier for person to just be skinny and look normal than make 6 figures. In addition, most older men are overweight and do not look younger than their age. The men in their 40s dating younger women have something to bring to the table, they aren't just average Joe Smith bums with beer bellies. Also, 40 year women aren't dying to date young 20 year old men lol.
 

DJsomeday

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True, but keep in mind men find women in their early 20s most attractive regardless of their age. Women are most attracted to men around their own age.
I don't feel this is true, I'd have to think about it but from my experience they will not be unattracted to guys their own age, but most women are more attracted or do like older men. (Not old as in 60 but maybe 30s all the way to 38 or something)
 

SW15

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These are my feelings on The Wall. Roosh wrote that article before his religious conversion.

@Jake_Gyllenhaal69 makes an argument that has merit.

The typical 35 or 40 year old man is not attracting young women. He's getting whatever he can from women close to his own age. That's depressing.

Most men 35-50 don't care about having children. The childless late 30s/early 40s guys are often fine with being childless and the single dads typically don't want more kids.
 

Zimbabwe

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The older a woman gets the less desirable options she will have, yes plenty will sleep with her but will the chads she desires commit?

For men if we get into self improvement within our 20s, we would be in a much better position once we are 30.
 

Robert28

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The older a woman gets the less desirable options she will have, yes plenty will sleep with her but will the chads she desires commit?

For men if we get into self improvement within our 20s, we would be in a much better position once we are 30.
But her standards get bigger and her bitterness and attitude gets worse. Women in their 30s will cut you off if they don’t feel the tingles in the first 2 seconds. I went on 3 dates with a girl who was 26 and would you believe she admitted to me that she was Luke warm about me on the first two dates but something I did on the 3rd made her fall for me? She never said what it was, she just said “you know I’m so glad I went on a 3rd date with you because I was still trying to make my mind up about you but I was sitting there looking at you and thinking you know what I am so into this guy quit fighting it Lauren, you know you’re falling for him!” An old hag would have never seen it through that far, a young woman will sometimes.
 

zekko

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The average income for men isn't over six figures lol. It is by far easier for person to just be skinny and look normal than make 6 figures..
I don't think a guy has to make six figures to have his sh!t together. Maybe in some areas. A guy with a large, solid social circle probably has the edge on a solitary guy making six figures.

40 year women aren't dying to date young 20 year old men lol.
That's true, but that should be of benefit to the older men. IF those men don't mind dating women in their own age group, they can enlarge
their dating pool.

I don't feel this is true, I'd have to think about it but from my experience they will not be unattracted to guys their own age, but most women are more attracted or do like older men. (Not old as in 60 but maybe 30s all the way to 38 or something)
Girls tend to prefer men who are about four years older than they are. But guys quite a bit older than that can be successful with young women, because not many young guys have their sh!t together. It takes guys longer to develop, because face it, there's more to learn and accomplish being a man. A lot of young guys are mainly just interested in getting drunk or high, or don't have the maturity level for relationships.
 

Zimbabwe

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But her standards get bigger and her bitterness and attitude gets worse. Women in their 30s will cut you off if they don’t feel the tingles in the first 2 seconds. I went on 3 dates with a girl who was 26 and would you believe she admitted to me that she was Luke warm about me on the first two dates but something I did on the 3rd made her fall for me? She never said what it was, she just said “you know I’m so glad I went on a 3rd date with you because I was still trying to make my mind up about you but I was sitting there looking at you and thinking you know what I am so into this guy quit fighting it Lauren, you know you’re falling for him!” An old hag would have never seen it through that far, a young woman will sometimes.
The smart ones settle down with Chad early on, the stupid ones waste their prime years riding the carousel only to regret it later when they have to "settle" with Beta Bob.

Chad may sleep with 30 year old becky, but he would rather get into a relationship with 21 year old stacy.
 

zekko

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The smart ones settle down with Chad early on.
I suppose these are the girls who have husbands who cheat on them. Then they spend all their time complaining about it, or cheat themselves. Or both.
I'd say the smart ones settle down with an upper level beta early on.
 

Zimbabwe

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I suppose these are the girls who have husbands who cheat on them. Then they spend all their time complaining about it, or cheat themselves. Or both.
I'd say the smart ones settle down with an upper level beta early on.
There's nothing wrong with beta male simps though, somebody has to look after Chad and Tyrones children. They can post on reddit while Chad and Tyrone spit roast her.
 

zekko

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There's nothing wrong with beta male simps though, somebody has to look after Chad and Tyrones children. They can post on reddit while Chad and Tyrone spit roast her.
No one wants to be a beta male simp. Upper level betas will have attractive enough traits to be desirable, while still maintaining some long term potential.
 

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Bokanovsky

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I'd have to respectfully disagree. A man who leads a healthy lifestyle, doesn't smoke or do drugs, doesn't drink too much, doesn't subsist on junk food, is well groomed and has decent style is going to look presentable well into his 40's and beyond. Women, on then other hand, rarely look good past age 35-40. Sure, they get plastic surgery, inject themselves with botox, and wear layers of makeup but the facade crumbles once you take a closer look. Their t!ts sag, they have cellulite, their faces are wrinkled and their bodies are not very nice to look at once the clothing comes off.
 
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metalwater

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no wall. even menopause for women is not a wall.

think door not wall, ya just open it and keep it ongoing.

as an average man your dating pool gets larger as you get older until you fail physically. as an above-average man, your dating pool gets exponentially larger as you get older, again until you fail physically. no wall, only doors.

one of the things that younger dudes don't see because they can not yet is that as a man gets older the women and the men look different. when I was 25 a 45-year-old woman looked like grandma, now it looks like a young girl if it's in shape and well kept.

don't care for fat, young or old, don't care for beat, young or old.

As you grow and change as a man your pool gets larger, some are no longer available while many others are added.
 

zekko

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one of the things that younger dudes don't see because they can not yet is that as a man gets older the women and the men look different. when I was 25 a 45-year-old woman looked like grandma, now it looks like a young girl if it's in shape and well kept.
Speaking as a 61 year old, I'm going to half agree. I remember when I was in my 20s, I used to look at women over 30 and think that was about the time that they lost their "shine" or whatever it was. I'm not sure what it was, but they lost something. On the other hand, I did get a big crush on a women in her 30s at about the same age, but I digress...

Now I can look at some older women and find them extremely attractive, when maybe I wouldn't have when I was younger. But there is a definite difference with young women. I'm not saying older women can't be attractive, but nothing beats that youthful sheen. 18-24 is considered peak beauty years for a reason. But at my age, almost everybody looks young to me.
 

Zimbabwe

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No one wants to be a beta male simp. Upper level betas will have attractive enough traits to be desirable, while still maintaining some long term potential.
Well in the animal kingdom beta males are ruthlessly killed off by Alpha Males. Look at male lions for example, they are tossed out of the pride so the alpha can have all the women to himself.

Imagine humans did this? Beta males should be glad we haven't wiped them out (though with onlyfans simps I'm starting to think we should).

I'd have to respectfully disagree. A man who leads a healthy lifestyle, doesn't smoke or do drugs, doesn't drink too much, doesn't subsist on junk food, is well groomed and has decent style is going to look presentable well into his 40's and beyond. Women, on then other hand, rarely look good past age 35-40. Sure, they get plastic surgery, inject themselves with botox, and wear layers of makeup but the facade crumbles once you take a closer look. Their t!ts sag, they have cellulite, their faces are wrinkled and their bodies are not very to look at once the clothing comes off.
Most people don't though, most older folks let themselves go which is why it is so much easier for older single men to pickup. All other high status men would be married.
 

Black Widow Void

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Speaking as a 61 year old, I'm going to half agree. I remember when I was in my 20s, I used to look at women over 30 and think that was about the time that they lost their "shine" or whatever it was. I'm not sure what it was, but they lost something. On the other hand, I did get a big crush on a women in her 30s at about the same age, but I digress...

Now I can look at some older women and find them extremely attractive, when maybe I wouldn't have when I was younger. But there is a definite difference with young women. I'm not saying older women can't be attractive, but nothing beats that youthful sheen. 18-24 is considered peak beauty years for a reason. But at my age, almost everybody looks young to me.

Never thought that I'd say this, but I recently watched a later episode of LITB and looked at June Cleaver in a different light.
 
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