Shoulder strength fluctuation

[Chilimili]

How to get bigger wider shoulders?

for Shoulders I only do dumbbell shoulder press for 3 sets and cable lateral raise for 3 sets. Twice a week so total set of 12 in my push pull workout plan.

Should I up the sets in both of them? Or would that be too much? I progress very slow on shoulders, I do like 30kg dumbbell shoulder press for 6-8 reps. It sometimes fluctuate, much more than other exercises with different muscle groups.
Even though I progressive overloaded, they don’t get wider based on the measurement they have the same wide as I was pressing 22kg - 25kg dumbbells. How is that possible?? Could it be that I lost fat around the shoulders? Weight is still the same

 

[Kotaix]

Deltoids are very slow progress for me too, much moreso than pecs. I think you're doing the right exercises, but whatever you do don't up the weight to the point where you start having to do explosive movements or you're going to hurt yourself. Make sure you're working front middle and back delts too.

 

[Chilimili]

Deltoids are very slow progress for me too, much moreso than pecs. I think you're doing the right exercises, but whatever you do don't up the weight to the point where you start having to do explosive movements or you're going to hurt yourself. Make sure you're working front middle and back delts too.

I don’t work actively the front delts, I think incline dumbbell press and flat dumbbell presses already target the front delts very well or not?

For rear delts I do face pulls on pull day, barbell row also stimulate rear delts

I once tried last week to do 5 sets of dumbbell shoulder presses when my lifts went down and it helped me to get back on my max strength this week. But don’t know if it was because of the higher sets I did this time

Maybe delts need more than 12 sets. Probably best to check how many sets my shoulder can tolerate and recover from. Will try to up the sets on both

 

[Stanley]

If thats you in the profile pic you're good brah. Otherwise delts are slow to build (unless you juicing). if you've been at it for a while and not seeing results I'd ask if you're lifting enough or going hard enough. You can hit shoulders frequently.

I switched to full body every other day with core lifts being Bench/overhead, Squat/Deads, bent over row.
Following that I focus on training arms, calves and shoulders to failure 3x. I also mix in weighted calisthenics throughout and that always hit my shoulders hard.

If you're looking to get broader shoulders then lateral raises are your friend. Adding any hanging calisthenics will also constantly work your shoulders.

What weight and rep range are you doing for facepulls, lateral raises?

I don’t work actively the front delts, I think incline dumbbell press and flat dumbbell presses already target the front delts very well or not?

Agreed, most guys have overtrained front delts from too much benching anyways.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Nothing beats holding heavy weight for shoulders. Nothing.

Deadlifts followed by holding the weight as long as you can on the last rep of each set.

Trap shrugs followed by holding the weight on the last rep of each set.

Reverse dumbbell wood chops for the front delts are amazing(take a single DB in both hands with the DB against your body, hold waist level at center of body, swing upward violently and hit the top of your left shoulder, lower back to center, repeat swing to top of right shoulder)

Standing Russian Twists, at first using two arms but then doing single arms are really good also.

Out of the 4, deadlifts will give you the best results. Focus on heavy weight.

Heavy compound movements give size, other excercises help with definition, shape, etc.

In general, you are not training to get bigger, that's why you aren't getting bigger.

 

[Chilimili]

Nothing beats holding heavy weight for shoulders. Nothing.

Deadlifts followed by holding the weight as long as you can on the last rep of each set.

Trap shrugs followed by holding the weight on the last rep of each set.

Reverse dumbbell wood chops for the front delts are amazing(take a single DB in both hands with the DB against your body, hold waist level at center of body, swing upward violently and hit the top of your left shoulder, lower back to center, repeat swing to top of right shoulder)

Standing Russian Twists, at first using two arms but then doing single arms are really good also.

Out of the 4, deadlifts will give you the best results. Focus on heavy weight.

Heavy compound movements give size, other excercises help with definition, shape, etc.

In general, you are not training to get bigger, that's why you aren't getting bigger.

I get bigger everywhere except shoulders, my back and chests for chest i only do 12 sets total the week and they look amazing like I have trained them for 3+ years.

The movements you recommended look like they would mess up my shoulders lol

I don’t train legs so deadlift will be a problem here i guess. I also don’t want to mess up my back, I heard that from all of the movements deadlift is the one with higher probability for long term injury

Push day :
Incline and flat db press 3sets each
Db shoulder press 3 sets
Cable lateral raise 3 sets
V bar triceps extension 4 sets
Triceps push down 3 sets

Pull day:
Lat pull down 3-4sets
Seated cable row 3sets
Barbell row 3sets
Face pull 3sets
Barbell curl 3sets
Cable hammer curl 3sets

 

[Chilimili]

If thats you in the profile pic you're good brah. Otherwise delts are slow to build (unless you juicing). if you've been at it for a while and not seeing results I'd ask if you're lifting enough or going hard enough. You can hit shoulders frequently.

I switched to full body every other day with core lifts being Bench/overhead, Squat/Deads, bent over row.
Following that I focus on training arms, calves and shoulders to failure 3x. I also mix in weighted calisthenics throughout and that always hit my shoulders hard.

If you're looking to get broader shoulders then lateral raises are your friend. Adding any hanging calisthenics will also constantly work your shoulders.

What weight and rep range are you doing for facepulls, lateral raises?



Agreed, most guys have overtrained front delts from too much benching anyways.

I usually train pretty hard, I’m content with all muscle groups except shoulders.

For face pulls a rep range of 8-12.
Are 55kg-60kg of face pulls actually impressive?

Lateral raise I do the first set for 6reps and the other two for 12-15reps

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I get bigger everywhere except shoulders, my back and chests for chest i only do 12 sets total the week and they look amazing like I have trained them for 3+ years.

The movements you recommended look like they would mess up my shoulders lol

I don’t train legs so deadlift will be a problem here i guess. I also don’t want to mess up my back, I heard that from all of the movements deadlift is the one with higher probability for long term injury

Push day :
Incline and flat db press 3sets each
Db shoulder press 3 sets
Cable lateral raise 3 sets
V bar triceps extension 4 sets
Triceps push down 3 sets

Pull day:
Lat pull down 3-4sets
Seated cable row 3sets
Barbell row 3sets
Face pull 3sets
Barbell curl 3sets
Cable hammer curl 3sets

If you don't train legs then realistically you are a joker anyway and aren't really interested in doing things right, so I don't have any other advice for you.

 

[Chilimili]

If you don't train legs then realistically you are a joker anyway and aren't really interested in doing things right, so I don't have any other advice for you.

that’s the most dumbest reasoning I have ever heard in my life. I don’t need to train legs because I’m jogging/walking 3-4hours every day. It’s unnecessary ballast for the nervous system. Dumb dumb mistake of you to judge people base on that and ignore the hard work

 

[BackInTheGame78]

that’s the most dumbest reasoning I have ever heard in my life. I don’t need to train legs because I’m jogging/walking 3-4hours every day. It’s unnecessary ballast for the nervous system. Dumb dumb mistake of you to judge people base on that and ignore the hard work

Walking/jogging is not the same as weight training and is not going to tax the muscles the same way. If anything that makes it worse...you will end up with chicken legs and a big upper body.

 

[Chilimili]

Walking/jogging is not the same as weight training and is not going to tax the muscles the same way. If anything that makes it worse...you will end up with chicken legs and a big upper body.

I have strong looking legs, but they aren’t strong. Get it now? I Occasionally also play football and that for many years. It’s is the same based on the physiological process in your body, it’s exhausting for the body. Even runners need to take a ^deload^ like weight training

 

[DonJuanjr]

Walking/jogging is not the same as weight training and is not going to tax the muscles the same way. If anything that makes it worse...you will end up with chicken legs and a big upper body.

It's OVER for ChickenLegCels

 

[EyeBRollin]

Two ways to grow shoulder size:

1) Overhead press. Best exercise there is for shoulders. Get to >0.75 X Bodyweight

2) Steroids - Guys with enormous and defined shoulders are juicing.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I have strong looking legs, but they aren’t strong. Get it now? I Occasionally also play football and that for many years. It’s is the same based on the physiological process in your body, it’s exhausting for the body. Even runners need to take a ^deload^ like weight training

You simply don't understand concepts or how muscles actually work or what makes muscle grow in size based on your comments. This is like trying to have a conversation with a 3rd grader about calculus. No point for me to bash my head into the wall. Do what you please, I am just telling you what will end up happening.

Remember this 5 years from now.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Walking/jogging is not the same as weight training and is not going to tax the muscles the same way. If anything that makes it worse...you will end up with chicken legs and a big upper body.

Depends on the load. If it’s at incline and / or outside (real locomotion) it absolutely produces an adaptation.

I’ve never done calf raises in my life, and have very large defined calf muscles. 20 years of playing soccer and bike riding…

 

[Chilimili]

You simply don't understand concepts or how muscles actually work or what makes muscle grow in size based on your comments. This is like trying to have a conversation with a 3rd grader about calculus. No point for me to bash my head into the wall. Do what you please, I am just telling you what will end up happening.

Remember this 5 years from now.

I don’t need to remember wrong information, no thank you.

 

[Gamisch]

First of all great thread, with lots of gold nuggets. But whenever I see such a discussion I wanna do research. Feck he said she said , and bro science is always a personal opinion. Its not easy to find information about this because its personal and most advice is anecdotal. If you think you look good, then you look good, right?

This is from this article: https://www.healthline.com/health/exercise-fitness/never-skip-leg-day#why-you-shouldnt

Why you shouldn’t skip leg day

Leg workouts are an important aspect of a balanced, whole-body fitness routine that builds strength, speed, and stability.

It’s important to stay consistent with your leg workouts since these large muscles are an integral part of your overall fitness. Plus, it’s easier for your body to adapt to the workouts and develop good habits that will help you to meet your fitness goals.


This video is more about how leg workouts improve athletic performance. I tend to agree that if you already put in the effort, why not do it properly ? I am a muay thai fighter , an extremely traditional sport. Even there they start to understand how weight lifting improves performance and its heavily adviced and implemented .

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I don’t need to remember wrong information, no thank you.

OK. It's always fun when you think you know everything after doing something for a few months then realize 5 years later the dude doing it 20+ years was right.

You are at the stage where you simply don't know what you don't know.

 

[EyeBRollin]

To answer the original OP:

Looks like you are chasing aesthetics. Other than doing OH press, there isn’t much else (other than steroids) that will improve shoulder aesthetics.

Getting a smaller waist helps for optics, as does laying off the bicep isolation work (big biceps compete with shoulders aesthetically).

Re: Leg day. “Leg Day” is the most overblown horse shvt in the entire fitness industrial complex. This is coming from someone who can backsquat 2X bodyweight. The leg strength is helpful in athletic performance and functionality but still isn’t sport specific if you do not also continue that kind of training. For example, a runner that squats in the off-season will get stronger legs compared to a runner that doesn’t. That extra strength only helps if it is applied to running and doesn’t build “too much” extra mass (speed and endurance is not about overall strength. It is about power to weight ratio, just like horsepower in a car).

 

[BackInTheGame78]

To answer the original OP:

Looks like you are chasing aesthetics. Other than doing OH press, there isn’t much else (other than steroids) that will improve shoulder aesthetics.

Getting a smaller waist helps for optics, as does laying off the bicep isolation work (big biceps compete with shoulders aesthetically).

Re: Leg day. “Leg Day” is the most overblown horse shvt in the entire fitness industrial complex. This is coming from someone who can backsquat 2X bodyweight. The leg strength is helpful in athletic performance and functionality but still isn’t sport specific if you do not also continue that kind of training. For example, a runner that squats in the off-season will get stronger legs compared to a runner that doesn’t. That extra strength only helps if it is applied to running and doesn’t build “too much” extra mass (speed and endurance is not about overall strength. It is about power to weight ratio, just like horsepower in a car).

It isn't about strength with legs it's about not looking like a cartoon character with a huge upper body and little to no leg development. Unless they are playing football or something that requires great leg drive/strength then it's valid.

Anyone who goes to the gym regularly knows what I mean because you see those people every day.

Ironically it also helps with every other muscle group growth since legs are the largest muscle group in the body and give you the best hormonal response from training them, meaning every other muscle group in the body benefits indirectly from it.

It's common sense. You think the body is going to release more GH and T after lifting legs or biceps/shoulders? Those are small muscles which does not necessitate a large response by the body.

Maintaining proportions means you should look like an "X" while standing not like a "Y".