Protein Powder

[BackInTheGame78]

Right, what I'm saying is that natty folks need 0.3g/lb fat intake for optimal hormone support. More than that does not improve hormones, less than that hurts it. You may find it beneficial to keep it right at 0.3g/lb. FWIW, NASM recommends like .23g/lb or something - I prefer the conservative approach.

If you're higher fats on some days - you're getting no added value out of it. if you're lower fats on other days, you are negatively impacting your hormones on that day. The net result is that you hurt your hormonal support.

In a vacuum that may be true but our bodies don't work in a vacuum.

 

[Money & Muscle]

In a vacuum that may be true but our bodies don't work in a vacuum.

I'm not understanding... all data points to 0.3g/lb fat intake as minimal required for optimal performance. Would you add water to your gasoline one day just to add 93 octane boost the next? The net result is a loss.

If you think what you're doing is the best way to do it - go right ahead. I was offering input that is supported by all current data that you could use or ignore. Not looking to argue with someone who doesn't want to follow what's worked for all of the biggest dudes I know.

 

[Stoic]

I take that back...Sunwarrior makes premade shakes with 30g of protein that contain Green Pea, Brown Rice and Pumpkin Seed Protein...

nice, I’m going to order it and give it a try And compare against the whey.

good analysis on protein grams needed btw. Standard advice on protein grams needed was 1 gram per body weight desired. You probably remember that. Schwartzeneger did it in his day. But, it makes sense that we don’t need quite that much. I’m sure we just crap out a lot of the excess the body can’t utilize anyhow. .8x of body weight sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Money & Muscle]

Standard advice on protein grams needed was 1 gram per body weight desired. You probably remember that. Schwartzeneger did it in his day. But, it makes sense that we don’t need quite that much. I’m sure we just crap out a lot of the excess the body can’t utilize anyhow. .8x of body weight sounds reasonable to me.

The reason why folks always harp on the 1g/lb is in case you miss a little - you're still in the green. maximum benefit for natties is shown to be 0.9g/lb, but 1.0g/lb ensures that if you're off by a hair in your macro counting, you still met the max benefit.

FDA nutrition labels aren't as accurate as you think they are btw.

 

[Stoic]

The reason why folks always harp on the 1g/lb is in case you miss a little - you're still in the green. maximum benefit for natties is shown to be 0.9g/lb, but 1.0g/lb ensures that if you're off by a hair in your macro counting, you still met the max benefit.

FDA nutrition labels aren't as accurate as you think they are btw.

yeah, there’s no real penalty for drinking too much protein

I will say when I’m really crushing protein, my farts smell like baby diapers.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

The reason why folks always harp on the 1g/lb is in case you miss a little - you're still in the green. maximum benefit for natties is shown to be 0.9g/lb, but 1.0g/lb ensures that if you're off by a hair in your macro counting, you still met the max benefit.

FDA nutrition labels aren't as accurate as you think they are btw.

FDA has stated labels can be and are at times off by 20%

It's why I weigh the majority of my foods, I don't trust the packaging, although there is very little that I eat that isn't a single ingredient food, and I feel that's more related to stuff that ha a combination of stuff mixed together.

Protein also has a much higher thermic effect than carbs or fat so all things being equal, it's going to help metabolism and body fat loss over time more than either of the others will.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I'm not understanding... all data points to 0.3g/lb fat intake as minimal required for optimal performance. Would you add water to your gasoline one day just to add 93 octane boost the next? The net result is a loss.

If you think what you're doing is the best way to do it - go right ahead. I was offering input that is supported by all current data that you could use or ignore. Not looking to argue with someone who doesn't want to follow what's worked for all of the biggest dudes I know.

What's worked better is the steroids they have taken I am sure.

 

[Money & Muscle]

What's worked better is the steroids they have taken I am sure.

We weren't talking about steroids, but steroids as a whole do very little for fat loss.

The biggest benefit you get out of say TRT in a deficit is the ability to retain muscle in a caloric deficit. You also don't need to eat that 0.3g/lb BW fat to maintain sufficient hormones.

How educated are you on steroid use? Have you used any yourself?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

We weren't talking about steroids, but steroids as a whole do very little for fat loss.

The biggest benefit you get out of say TRT in a deficit is the ability to retain muscle in a caloric deficit. You also don't need to eat that 0.3g/lb BW fat to maintain sufficient hormones.

How educated are you on steroid use? Have you used any yourself?

I am on TRT, and the biggest benefit from TRT is that even with an increase from only 300 to 600 there is significant 39% abdominal fat reduction seen in studies.

That actually makes no sense since steroids help build muscle quickly, that new muscle is metabolically active and as such it will have a significant impact on your metabolism and the amount of calories your body needs on a daily basis, even at just a base BMR level, especially if you are putting on significant amounts. That likely comes down to how much they are eating, which is likely to be in a caloric surplus since they are trying to gain muscle.

They also tend to make fat cells insulin resistant and muscle cells insulin sensitive at least Testosterone specifically does and Tren as well.

 

[Money & Muscle]

even with an increase from only 300 to 600 there is significant 39% abdominal fat reduction seen in studies

source?

steroids help build muscle quickly, that new muscle is metabolically active and as such it will have a significant impact on your metabolism and the amount of calories your body needs on a daily basis especially if you are putting on significant amounts.

Right, so steroids themselves do very little to burn fat, which was my point. Secondary effect being that the muscle itself will help burn more calories; but even putting muscle on quickly - isn't quick. Adding 3lbs of muscle in a month is actually a lot of growth... how many extra calories do you think those 3lbs are burning?

I think insulin sensitivity is much more overplayed than it should be. Reason being that even if you are insulin resistant - the solution is still to just eat less food.

Primary factor to losing weight is eating less food than your maintenance calories.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

source?


Right, so steroids themselves do very little to burn fat, which was my point. Secondary effect being that the muscle itself will help burn more calories; but even putting muscle on quickly - isn't quick. Adding 3lbs of muscle in a month is actually a lot of growth... how many extra calories do you think those 3lbs are burning?

I think insulin sensitivity is much more overplayed than it should be. Reason being that even if you are insulin resistant - the solution is still to just eat less food.

Primary factor to losing weight is eating less food than your maintenance calories.

Misquoted slightly, as it was in reverse...when researchers dropped levels from 600 to 300, they saw a 36% increase in fat mass on those subjects.

How Testosterone Levels Affect Muscle Growth and Fat Loss - Legion Athletics

Higher testosterone levels are often equated with more muscle growth and fat loss. Is it that simple?

legionathletics.com

However the reverse applies, as they noted that as T levels increased the subjects became leaner.

This isn't really a surprise as Testosterone inhibits creating of new fat cells and also acts to selectively make muscle cells more insulin sensitive and fat cells more insulin resistant.

I honestly don't think insulin sensitivity/resistance is played up enough. It is the root cause of weight gain and weight loss.

 

[Money & Muscle]

I honestly don't think insulin sensitivity/resistance is played up enough. It is the root cause of weight gain and weight loss.

Really? you think the root cause of weight gain in the US is because of something we didn't know about until 30 years ago?

I blame the people shoveling food into their faces and relying on Ozempic to make them skinny, with no lifestyle changes or general activity whatsoever.
These are the same people who cry that slaughterhouses don't let chickens walk before they're killed, yet those chickens get more steps in daily than the fatasses complaining about it.

 

[DonBig]

I've read plenty of articles and studies from many different places and haven't seen a single one that said anything bad about it. In fact, overwhelmingly good things are said about it, including benefits other than muscle building.

I'm sure you have some psuedo-science ready to go tho, so feel free to expound on it.

If that would be the case then you would know it. Many studies can provide many positive examples but also negative ones. You my friend are the victim of conformation bias, because The negative ones overweight them far far much. I have a moral codex and I wouldn’t wish anyone the worse not even you when it comes to health.
I’ll gladly provide you the unbiased information, if you ask nicely. But when you really think you know the truth, then well live it. My diet cured chronic illnesses, mental health issues that even doctors dont know the appropriate solution for it. Chronic illnesses were People had to take medicaments for years. Anxiety, schizophrenia.
Everyone I know who suffered from chronic illnesses and switched to my diet are very thankful for it. Majority of health illnesses happens due to diet

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Really? you think the root cause of weight gain in the US is because of something we didn't know about until 30 years ago?

I blame the people shoveling food into their faces and relying on Ozempic to make them skinny, with no lifestyle changes or general activity whatsoever.
These are the same people who cry that slaughterhouses don't let chickens walk before they're killed, yet those chickens get more steps in daily than the fatasses complaining about it.

Well obviously food choices play a large role in that, what I meant is that weight gain isn't the actual issue, it's only a symptom of the problem and that problem is insulin resistance.

If they had good insulin sensitivity they would be like those skinny people who could eat whatever they wanted and not gain weight.

 

[Money & Muscle]

Well obviously food choices play a large role in that, what I meant is that weight gain isn't the actual issue, it's only a symptom of the problem and that problem is insulin resistance.

If they had good insulin sensitivity they would be like those skinny people who could eat whatever they wanted and not gain weight.

I fundamentally disagree with this analysis. I think BF% and insulin sensitivity are directly caused by food choices, with the sole exception that Type 2 Diabetes has a strong likelihood of being hereditary.

I don't like prescribing blame to factors that one cannot control (insulin sensitivity) because the ONLY part of this which you could control is the food you put in your mouth. Regardless of insulin sensitivity or not, the answer is to control what food goes into your body.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I fundamentally disagree with this analysis. I think BF% and insulin sensitivity are directly caused by food choices, with the sole exception that Type 2 Diabetes has a strong likelihood of being hereditary.

I don't like prescribing blame to factors that one cannot control (insulin sensitivity) because the ONLY part of this which you could control is the food you put in your mouth. Regardless of insulin sensitivity or not, the answer is to control what food goes into your body.

There are plenty of things you can take and do that improve insulin sensitivity that don't involve food.

 

[Pierce.Manhammer]

TLDR;



Ya’ll like a hencoop.

 

[jafman]

I only use beef isolate now along with bone broth. Just plain isolate…

But honestly I feel eggs are number One!

I eat 20 eggs a week over 5 days

 

[2rings]

1) True Low carb diets are garbage and 100 g is probably near the lower limits of what is healthy long-term for most people depending on body weight and TDEE.

2) You seem to lack understanding of why you eat more protein. Yes, it is true that once you eat a certain amount of protein it's muscle building effects won't increase anymore. This is due to rate limiting enzymes involved in muscle synthesis. However, what you are not understanding is that protein has a very high thermic effect in the body compared to carbs or fat. 30-40% compared to carbs which are 10-15% or fats which are like 3% or less. This huge thermic effect helps keep your metabolism running at a high level and burning fat and is very beneficial to your body for recomp purposes.

3) Whey is one of the byproducts of separating milk. You know like the old nursery rhyme, "eating your curds and whey"? It's a high quality protein that is high in leucine, the most important amino acid for muscle building since it's the amino acid marker used by the body to check protein levels. However, as I have stated, about half the population is reactive to whey and concentrated dairy in general(see Greek yogurt), and it causes issues. Which is why I substitute Brown Rice and Green Pea proteins as they have a near identical amino acid profile as whey without any of the bloat issues, low grade chronic inflammation or hormonal disruption and dysfunction eventually.

But why are you drinking whey powder? The stuff is like a Lab Experiment. The powder basically looks like something you can find in a Science Lab.

have you ever tried making your own cheeses? I used to have milk kefir going. I made my own yogurt and other things like kefir leben.

why can’t you just go All Natural?

my whole point of resistance to the protein powders is they are so machine processed. It is not fresh either.

anything can be in there

 

[2rings]

Probably not I would say...probably soy protein which is a hell no from me haha

Yeah i have avoided soy for a long time, and “whey protein” is basically soy too, in my opinion, and i can care less what the Pro Whey Powder crowd says
To hell with them all

You might as well put whey protein up your you-know-what.. along with soy powder..

why don’t you just eat EGGS DAMNIT