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OT. Conceal Carry

Atom Smasher

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Good luck against a grizzly or black bear. Those 600 LBS bears are 6 ft tall and can run like 45 miles per hour. What is the range of pepper spray, 15 ft? Bears run and lunge, yea, you may get it, but you will get mauled by their large paws and fangs. It's quite the experience seeing a bear charge you. You cannot stare them down either; like a wild cat. When I am on trails, I always carry my side arm and an extra clip. Though, I may now buy a .357 or .45 mini just in case. My 9mm is a great gun, but if you are in the NY or CT country trails and a bear attacks, unless you fire in to the head, you're f ucked. Your body will naturally freeze in fear. Bear attack is scarier than being on tour. On tour, at least you have backup. With bears, nope.

Pepper spray results.

More like 9 feet tall, easily. I'm also in CT, and these bears are literally overrunning the state. I remember being a kid in NY and the last thing anybody would ever think about would be a bear while out hiking. Today, you wonder what's around every turn. These things are everywhere. And they are losing their dread of humans. That's because when humans find them playing and cavorting in their yards, they pull out the cell phone and start taking videos. They don't realize the effect this is having in terms of bear-human interactions.
 

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billtx49

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IMO, if I’m rushed by a bear when out there, I realize I may only get one to two rounds landed due to the possible surprise and time factor, so regarding caliber size, I go with the concept of the biggest hole I can put in him, the better.…
Obviously hollow points also critical.
 

stringpuller

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Good luck against a grizzly or black bear. Those 600 LBS bears are 6 ft tall and can run like 45 miles per hour. What is the range of pepper spray, 15 ft? Bears run and lunge, yea, you may get it, but you will get mauled by their large paws and fangs. It's quite the experience seeing a bear charge you. You cannot stare them down either; like a wild cat. When I am on trails, I always carry my side arm and an extra clip. Though, I may now buy a .357 or .45 mini just in case. My 9mm is a great gun, but if you are in the NY or CT country trails and a bear attacks, unless you fire in to the head, you're f ucked. Your body will naturally freeze in fear. Bear attack is scarier than being on tour. On tour, at least you have backup. With bears, nope.

Pepper spray results.

Its a chest holster designed to be employed while in actual combat. I dont want to find out but im sure it is the last valve to reach for. Im sure there is no sure fire protection thats 100%. Take defense and your nut sack i say. Life don't reward the cowards
 

backseatjuan

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What makes you speculate that men who are trained in firearm usage are sofa experts?
Well that simple line about bears. It makes me giggle. Bears don't touch you, they are afraid of you. If you shoot at one, it most certainly will attack. Let me put it this way, experienced hunters, while at 20 miters away in cover, do not shoot at bears, because there is only one chance. Either you drop it with that first shot or you can kiss your ass good bye. You better place that shot between the shoulders. Anything else, and you are the bad guy, bear is not going to run away, if you don't drop it, it will come after you. You don't get a second shot, or 3rd, in fact putting 17 into it won't do much. It's not human, it's an animal, very lively animal, it won't die that easy.

That simple fact that you can kill a bear using a pistol, that makes me giggle. Doesn't matter how much you trained. If you are going to be shooting it with a pistol you either have lots of balls, a death wish, or no experience whatsoever.

Bear is not an animal you want to be using pistol against, no matter the caliber. It should run away by itself when it sees you, otherwise you better have a rifle.
 

Atom Smasher

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Well that simple line about bears. It makes me giggle. Bears don't touch you, they are afraid of you.
Tell that to the hiker who was mauled in a town near me a couple weeks ago. Also tell the hiker who was mauled in a town about 20 minutes from me 4 weeks ago. Tell it to the two guys who were attacked and seriously injured by a bear in another town about 20 minutes away. Ditto to the camper who lost his life in a campground near me a couple months ago.

Do you honestly think that it is better to have NO protection than SOME protection?

We are talking here about protecting oneself from a charging bear that comes out of nowhere. Plenty of bears have been turned away or killed by 10mm.

You can easily get 4 to 6 rounds off before it reaches you. Do you have any clue how ridiculous you sound, talking as if you’re an expert, when you don’t even know how, when, and why a bear charges?

“It should run away by itself when it sees you”...
Yeah, that works great except when it doesn’t.
 
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RickTheToad

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Well that simple line about bears. It makes me giggle. Bears don't touch you, they are afraid of you. If you shoot at one, it most certainly will attack. Let me put it this way, experienced hunters, while at 20 miters away in cover, do not shoot at bears, because there is only one chance. Either you drop it with that first shot or you can kiss your ass good bye. You better place that shot between the shoulders. Anything else, and you are the bad guy, bear is not going to run away, if you don't drop it, it will come after you. You don't get a second shot, or 3rd, in fact putting 17 into it won't do much. It's not human, it's an animal, very lively animal, it won't die that easy.

That simple fact that you can kill a bear using a pistol, that makes me giggle. Doesn't matter how much you trained. If you are going to be shooting it with a pistol you either have lots of balls, a death wish, or no experience whatsoever.

Bear is not an animal you want to be using pistol against, no matter the caliber. It should run away by itself when it sees you, otherwise you better have a rifle.
WRONG. A female bear will attack to protect their cubs even if you do not see the cubs. I was walking on a trail, didn't see the cubs, she started charging. So, you are wrong... Again...
 

billtx49

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That simple fact that you can kill a bear using a pistol, that makes me giggle.

If you are going to be shooting it with a pistol you either have lots of balls, a death wish, or no experience whatsoever.
Many men have had to kill a bear using a handgun. Usually .357 & up, magnums, and into .45 caliber range.

When it comes to firearms, don’t spread fantasy on the internet. It’s irresponsible …
 

RickTheToad

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Tell that to the hiker who was mauled in a town near me a couple weeks ago. Also tell the hiker who was mauled in a town about 20 minutes from me 4 weeks ago. Tell it to the two guys who were attacked and seriously injured by a bear in another town about 20 minutes away. Ditto to the camper who lost his life in a campground near me a couple months ago.

Do you honestly think that it is better to have NO protection than SOME protection?

We are talking here about protecting oneself from a charging bear that comes out of nowhere. Plenty of bears have been turned away or killed by 10mm.

You can easily get 4 to 6 rounds off before it reaches you. Do you have any clue how ridiculous you sound, talking as if you’re an expert, when you don’t even know how, when, and why a bear charges?

“It should run away by itself when it sees you”...
Yeah, that works great except when it doesn’t.
Responses like his are usually from Monday night quarterbacking safe behind their computer / tablet / phone screens. Doubtful our friend has even been in a position that I mentioned.. I was lucky, and I know that.
 

Julian

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Alpha males carry weaponry and have the wisdom to know when to utilize such tools in a legal matter.

One should have the legal right to open or conceal carry with proper background checks.

Open carrying is typically stupid and makes you a target. Why show all your cards?

Walk with the confidences and an air of power by having the pistola on you and letting that speak through your body language and aura.

At the end of the day like with most things its better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it. Common sense here.


As for killing a bear, arguing this is retarded. Bears come in all sizes. Theres reports of 22 cal entering a bears skull and killing with an eye or ear shot. Also reports of 308 rounds just glancing off the bears skull. Theres video of russian rapidly firing an AK at a charging bear and dropped it within a couple seconds.

I could see someone with a fully loaded magazine killing a bear with perfect shot placement at distance.

Even humans have taken a dozen rounds from a pistol and still survived thanks to adrenaline and vitals not being hit. Now take a 1000 lbs of kodiak bear muscle and claws and death coming at you..ur Fked. Against a 200 lbs black bear ur prolly gonna have bear jerky for dinner.


As far as dealing with cops. Your legit your legal whats the worry. When pulled over turn off car, turn on dome light, have you id and gun license rdy. Hands visible on steering wheel and when cop approaches u just hand them ur stuff. Cops typically give a large modicum of respect when following these steps. Be assertive but friendly and non argumentative and cop will typically let u go with a warning for whatever the issue is.
 

thinker

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The bear problems we are having are due in part to the animal rights nazis. They keep shutting down bear and predator hunting and this leads to more encounters with humans. @backseatjuan you seem to believe the mainstream media reports that american gun owners are a bunch of brain dead yahoos that have a dirty Harry fetish, that is simply not the case my friend. As far as being an experienced hunter, my brothers and I and many of the other men in my family have been hunting for years. We have hunted not just in America but also in Africa, Canada, New Zealand , Mexico and Argentina so we know a thing or 2 about hunting and animals in general including bears. When in bear country you should always carry a side arm for protection and the bigger the caliber the better. When we hunt out west in grizzly country we carry .45s and up when it comes to calibers.
 
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Bokanovsky

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As a LEO, it shouldn't take very long to get an unrestricted license. I had to shoot a bear once, it wasn't fun. .45 would be best for that. However, those's f uckers are heavy and has a decent recoil. I emptied a whole round into the charging bear from my 9mm; did little. I was just lucky that when I switched I was able to get it in the head. Talk about terrifying. Then, of course, people called shots fired and I was swarmed by the cops after nearly being charged by a bear. Ever have a half a dozen cops draw their guns on you? Not a pretty feeling...
Up here in Canada, pretty much the only way to obtain a permit to legally carry a sidearm is to work in a remote area where it would be required for predator defence. You would be laughed at if you tried to get approval to carry a .45 for bear defence. 10 mm is considered the absolute minimum and most guys carry revolvers in heavy calibers (i.e. 454 Casull). Shooting a bear with a .45, which isn't that much more powerful than a 9 mm, is like inviting the bear to eat you for lunch.
 

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For defense against bears, 10mm is starting to become the new go-to for people in alaska. more power than 45 with double the round count. But for anything else, it kinda sucks. Expensive ammo, huge gun, over-penetration and snappy recoil.

I have a conceal carry license simply because my state makes putting a gun in a car a risky proposition without one, but I very rarely carry at all. Open carry is legal here, and I open carry when hiking, but it's really not worth the attention it gets you in urban environments. The only time I feel like I need a concealed weapon is when doing things like craigslist transactions that could end up being a trap. A bit paranoid, but a family friend was killed during a supposed car sale transaction.

For concealed carry I put it in the waistband directly at the back (with a holster) because it's easy to conceal with proper clothing and makes for a quick draw; and if it goes off for any reason I'll end up shot in the ass instead of the d!ck or the femoral artery. But again, I very rarely carry.

Edit: Bear mace is statistically more effective at stopping bears than handguns are.
 

Spaz

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The bear problems we are having are due in part to the animal rights nazis. They keep shutting down bear and predator hunting and this leads to more encounters with humans. @backseatjuan you seem to believe the mainstream media reports that american gun owners are a bunch of brain dead yahoos that have a dirty Harry fetish, that is simply not the case my friend. As far as being an experienced hunter, my brothers and I and many of the other men in my family have been hunting for years. We have hunted not just in America but also in Africa, Canada, New Zealand , Mexico and Argentina so we know a thing or 2 about hunting and animals in general including bears. When in bear country you should always carry a side arm for protection and the bigger the caliber the better. When we hunt out west in grizzly country we carry .45s and up when it comes to calibers.
New Zealand?

There's only big rats roaming around....
 
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Spaz

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OP, I consider myself to be an accomplished hunter both with traditional weaponry and modern ones.

If its bears, and if u r newb, I'm not sure how effective a handgun can be when a bear is charging at you.

Best advice I can give you is to be always observant near wooded areas, check for territorial markings etc and regularly practice at a shooting range.
 

Bible_Belt

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Edit: Bear mace is statistically more effective at stopping bears than handguns are.
The study of bear attacks I read placed the effectiveness of firearms at 50% and bear spray at 90%. Effectiveness was defined as the human escaping without injury. It is easy to shoot a bear and create a wound that will kill it, but doing so before it gets to you is another story.

I delivered pizza a long time ago. If I ever had that job again, I would certainly carry.
 

Atom Smasher

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I’ve read that with bears, spray trumps a firearm in deterrence too, although I’m planning on studying more sources. Seems the best scenario is to carry both. At least both would afford some peace of mind, even if that peace of mind might be a little overly optimistic. The point is go out there without worrying about being completely defenseless.

I always tell my fiancé that when I’m out on the trails with her, I’ve got no worries at all, as I an run faster than she can.
 

Spaz

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I’ve read that with bears, spray trumps a firearm in deterrence too, although I’m planning on studying more sources. Seems the best scenario is to carry both. At least both would afford some peace of mind, even if that peace of mind might be a little overly optimistic. The point is go out there without worrying about being completely defenseless.

I always tell my fiancé that when I’m out on the trails with her, I’ve got no worries at all, as I an run faster than she can.
Before I head out for my hunting or entering dense jungle, I would spend some time acclimatising - I find after spending extended time in an urban jungle impedes my senses/instincts.

Senses or instincts for me plays a huge role when I'm in a jungle, so it's 1st instincts, 2nd skills and last is type of weapons.
 

billtx49

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Seems the best scenario is to carry both. At least both would afford some peace of mind,
Yep. Firearm in one hand, spray in the other in case the outer perimeter shots missed or were ineffective …
No way I would personally completely depend on a close in spray defense though.
 
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